Yes? Now, I’m not an historian of materials commerce, and if anyone is I’d love to hear an expert breakdown, but my intuition is that advances in the gathering and shipping of granite and iron have progressed over time more or less in parallel, or close enough for a game.
If you know anything to suggest that iron is 1500 times as easy to acquire than it was 500 years ago while granite is only twice as easy to acquire, I’m open to that information.
Turning iron ore into slag iron is certainly easier today, whereas granite doesn't require any such processing.but the real problem is that you're comparing scrap iron with cut stone; a ton of even simple shaped iron (say, plates) will cost you several thousand dollars.
I’m not talking about plates, I’m comparing raw material to raw material. That’s what the PHB is talking about when it gives the price of iron and presumably what the Forgotten Realms wiki is talking about when it gives the price of granite.
Both mining ore and cutting stone are considerably easier now than they were centuries ago, and “the relative ease between the two probably hasn’t changed enough to matter” seems a perfectly reasonable assumption to make for a game.
Yes? Now, I’m not an historian of materials commerce, and if anyone is I’d love to hear an expert breakdown, but my intuition is that advances in the gathering and shipping of granite and iron have progressed over time more or less in parallel, or close enough for a game.
If you know anything to suggest that iron is 1500 times as easy to acquire than it was 500 years ago while granite is only twice as easy to acquire, I’m open to that information.
Turning iron ore into slag iron is certainly easier today, whereas granite doesn't require any such processing.but the real problem is that you're comparing scrap iron with cut stone; a ton of even simple shaped iron (say, plates) will cost you several thousand dollars.
I’m not talking about plates, I’m comparing raw material to raw material. That’s what the PHB is talking about when it gives the price of iron and presumably what the Forgotten Realms wiki is talking about when it gives the price of granite.
Both mining ore and cutting stone are considerably easier now than they were centuries ago, and “the relative ease between the two probably hasn’t changed enough to matter” seems a perfectly reasonable assumption to make for a game.
You are pulling an number from a 2e supplement, assuming it is a raw material cost (which makes zero sense, since the primary uses of granite are structural, so why a price by cubic inch?) and ignoring the fact that it does not mesh with 5e construction costs.
I'm doing no such thing, I'm pulling a number from this thread and trying to rationalize it. I've already done more research than I think a game is worth and come away with "shrug, sounds fine," and none of the arguments against it in this thread have made much sense.
I don't understand why you think it would make "zero sense" as a material cost. Usually when supplements include prices for materials, they're talking about the prices of materials, not the things you make from those materials. You also haven't demonstrated why it doesn't mesh with 5e construction costs. Castles are not typically made of granite, so the cost of a castle isn't really relevant to the discussion.
[EDIT] I did, however, go back to the FR wiki to look at it; the cubic inch value is for spell components. As a building material, its price is given as 1.67 gp/lb, which comes out to about 36.5 thousand gp for a 5-foot cube of the stuff. That also sounds reasonable to me.
As with anything concerning housing. Location location location.
You will find that almost all great ancient structures were created from the closest most readily available materials. If your characters own the land the material cost is zero but the labor cost to mine it and transport it are added in.
I would say a 5 ft cube of rock would take a single worker two weeks to mine and finish. It would more than likely take a team of men to move it.
The cathedrals of Europe took sometimes hundreds of years to complete. And that is the same with castles.
Castles were built inside outward no one started with the outer walls first. They always started with the center keep or tower first.
I’m not talking about plates, I’m comparing raw material to raw material.
Raw granite is a boulder and, depending on its location, might have negative value (i.e. someone will pay you to remove it).
I sincerely can't tell if you're being intentionally obtuse, but in case this is legitimate ignorance and not just trolling, we're talking about granite hewn from a quarry.
I sincerely can't tell if you're being intentionally obtuse, but in case this is legitimate ignorance and not just trolling, we're talking about granite hewn from a quarry.
If someone's already cut it into shape, it's not raw material and not comparable to scrap iron, it's comparable to iron plates (which you can't really even buy, but cheap rolled steel plates run a couple thousand dollars a ton). Scrap iron and a boulder really are comparable: they're both raw materials that require a lot of work to turn into anything actually useful.
I sincerely can't tell if you're being intentionally obtuse, but in case this is legitimate ignorance and not just trolling, we're talking about granite hewn from a quarry.
If someone's already cut it into shape, it's not raw material and not comparable to scrap iron, it's comparable to iron plates (which you can't really even buy, but cheap rolled steel plates run a couple thousand dollars a ton). Scrap iron and a boulder really are comparable: they're both raw materials that require a lot of work to turn into anything actually useful.
No, in this case, the boulder is comparable to iron ore that hasn't even been mined yet. Cutting the granite out of the quarry is comparable mining the ore. Working the granite into a shape suitable for whatever purpose is comparable to processing the ore into usable iron. And this entire conversation is pointless, because, again, we have rules-given prices for granite as a building material (from 3e, to be fair, but the price of iron hasn't changed between 3e and 5e, so I think it's reasonable to assume that the price of granite hasn't either), and conversation about whether or not those prices are reasonable belongs in a different forum.
But, just to humor you, I did look up the price of a one-ton (probably a short ton, so less than a metric ton) granite boulder, and it's about $400 (with a pretty large range, to be fair), which is still more expensive than iron.
I sincerely can't tell if you're being intentionally obtuse, but in case this is legitimate ignorance and not just trolling, we're talking about granite hewn from a quarry.
its a legit answer...you're talking about something that weighs a crapton. the cost of moving it could easily exceed the labor to cut it...so the farther away from the quarry it is, the more expensive it'll be (hence my answer). If you're buying it at the quarry, it could even be less than 1gp. A mile away it could be 10 gp. If the quarry is a location where someone wanted the rock removed anyway....it could very easily have negative value as there's still the cost to get it out of there. "I want to get rid of this giant chunk of mountain, i'll pay you to move the pieces"=negative value.
That still puts a large castle at a little less than a low, 70' long, 5' high, 5' wide line of granite. Does that really sound reasonable? And that is not including labour costs or anything but the stone.
Castles are made of locally available stone, and if you pick up a random rock there's a good chance it's made of granite (it makes up 70-80% of the crust).
That still puts a large castle at a little less than a low, 70' long, 5' high, 5' wide line of granite. Does that really sound reasonable? And that is not including labour costs or anything but the stone.
Again, castles are not typically made of granite.
To be fair, as I edited in after a bit of research, Neuschwanstein seems mostly sandstone with some white limestone (plus some marble interiors). However, despite the OP having asked about granite in the detail, the title is still about the general cost of stone, so the OP's player might not be that picky.
And again (and this factors into cost), one usually works with what is locally available. Sandstone is not going to be cheaper if you are building beside a granite quarry. Back then, transportation costs really were the main cost element.
Fair, and generally true, but none of that is really reflected in the rules of D&D, which simply has flat prices for commodities. Given the context of the thread is casting wish, I think we can safely assume we're talking about the innate value of the material, absent any labor or transportation considerations (I'd argue that the innate value of a worked granite wall is higher than the value of the materials it's made from, but the OP's question is not about that finished product). That value is given by the rules (obvious caveat: in 3e, but not 5e as of yet, apparently). This back-and-forth seems to be about whether or not the rules' price makes sense, and my position is simply that it's good enough for D&D. Quibbling about the details doesn't really contribute to that discussion, for me.
All this math and analysis is fascinating but if a player just wanted a pretty wall to hang display shelves on in their demiplane, that seems fine to me. Make it granite or solid gold or unobtainium for all I care. Any piece of it that is taken outside the demiplane crumbles to dust.
All this math and analysis is fascinating but if a player just wanted a pretty wall to hang display shelves on in their demiplane, that seems fine to me. Make it granite or solid gold or unobtainium for all I care. Any piece of it that is taken outside the demiplane crumbles to dust.
this solution seems pretty good for what my players are trying to do at the min in the demiplane...... next time they probably try to do the same outside of the demiplane lol
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
He who fight and runaway live to fight another day
Well that's entirely false. Wish is in the SRD, so luckily I can share the relevant text without going afoul of copyright:
Alternatively, you can create one of the following effects of your choice:
You create one object of up to 25,000 gp in value that isn't a magic item. The object can be no more than 300 feet in any dimension, and it appears in an unoccupied space you can see on the ground.
You allow up to twenty creatures that you can see to regain all hit points, and you end all effects on them described in the greater restoration spell.
You grant up to ten creatures that you can see resistance to a damage type you choose.
You grant up to ten creatures you can see immunity to a single spell or other magical effect for 8 hours. For instance, you could make yourself and all your companions immune to a lich's life drain attack.
You undo a single recent event by forcing a reroll of any roll made within the last round (including your last turn). Reality reshapes itself to accommodate the new result. For example, a wish spell could undo an opponent's successful save, a foe's critical hit, or a friend's failed save. You can force the reroll to be made with advantage or disadvantage, and you can choose whether to use the reroll or the original roll.
You might be able to achieve something beyond the scope of the above examples. State your wish to the GM as precisely as possible. The GM has great latitude in ruling what occurs in such an instance; the greater the wish, the greater the likelihood that something goes wrong. This spell might simply fail, the effect you desire might only be partly achieved, or you might suffer some unforeseen consequence as a result of how you worded the wish. For example, wishing that a villain were dead might propel you forward in time to a period when that villain is no longer alive, effectively removing you from the game. Similarly, wishing for a legendary magic item or artifact might instantly transport you to the presence of the item's current owner.
I’m not talking about plates, I’m comparing raw material to raw material. That’s what the PHB is talking about when it gives the price of iron and presumably what the Forgotten Realms wiki is talking about when it gives the price of granite.
Both mining ore and cutting stone are considerably easier now than they were centuries ago, and “the relative ease between the two probably hasn’t changed enough to matter” seems a perfectly reasonable assumption to make for a game.
I'm doing no such thing, I'm pulling a number from this thread and trying to rationalize it. I've already done more research than I think a game is worth and come away with "shrug, sounds fine," and none of the arguments against it in this thread have made much sense.
I don't understand why you think it would make "zero sense" as a material cost. Usually when supplements include prices for materials, they're talking about the prices of materials, not the things you make from those materials. You also haven't demonstrated why it doesn't mesh with 5e construction costs. Castles are not typically made of granite, so the cost of a castle isn't really relevant to the discussion.
[EDIT] I did, however, go back to the FR wiki to look at it; the cubic inch value is for spell components. As a building material, its price is given as 1.67 gp/lb, which comes out to about 36.5 thousand gp for a 5-foot cube of the stuff. That also sounds reasonable to me.
in a village located in the foothills of a mountain? Lets say 5gp. In a village in a vast swamp or sandy desert? Lets say maybe 100gp.
Guide to the Five Factions (PWYW)
Deck of Decks
As with anything concerning housing. Location location location.
You will find that almost all great ancient structures were created from the closest most readily available materials. If your characters own the land the material cost is zero but the labor cost to mine it and transport it are added in.
I would say a 5 ft cube of rock would take a single worker two weeks to mine and finish. It would more than likely take a team of men to move it.
The cathedrals of Europe took sometimes hundreds of years to complete. And that is the same with castles.
Castles were built inside outward no one started with the outer walls first. They always started with the center keep or tower first.
Raw granite is a boulder and, depending on its location, might have negative value (i.e. someone will pay you to remove it).
I sincerely can't tell if you're being intentionally obtuse, but in case this is legitimate ignorance and not just trolling, we're talking about granite hewn from a quarry.
If someone's already cut it into shape, it's not raw material and not comparable to scrap iron, it's comparable to iron plates (which you can't really even buy, but cheap rolled steel plates run a couple thousand dollars a ton). Scrap iron and a boulder really are comparable: they're both raw materials that require a lot of work to turn into anything actually useful.
No, in this case, the boulder is comparable to iron ore that hasn't even been mined yet. Cutting the granite out of the quarry is comparable mining the ore. Working the granite into a shape suitable for whatever purpose is comparable to processing the ore into usable iron. And this entire conversation is pointless, because, again, we have rules-given prices for granite as a building material (from 3e, to be fair, but the price of iron hasn't changed between 3e and 5e, so I think it's reasonable to assume that the price of granite hasn't either), and conversation about whether or not those prices are reasonable belongs in a different forum.
But, just to humor you, I did look up the price of a one-ton (probably a short ton, so less than a metric ton) granite boulder, and it's about $400 (with a pretty large range, to be fair), which is still more expensive than iron.
its a legit answer...you're talking about something that weighs a crapton. the cost of moving it could easily exceed the labor to cut it...so the farther away from the quarry it is, the more expensive it'll be (hence my answer). If you're buying it at the quarry, it could even be less than 1gp. A mile away it could be 10 gp. If the quarry is a location where someone wanted the rock removed anyway....it could very easily have negative value as there's still the cost to get it out of there. "I want to get rid of this giant chunk of mountain, i'll pay you to move the pieces"=negative value.
Guide to the Five Factions (PWYW)
Deck of Decks
Again, castles are not typically made of granite.
Castles are made of locally available stone, and if you pick up a random rock there's a good chance it's made of granite (it makes up 70-80% of the crust).
Fair, and generally true, but none of that is really reflected in the rules of D&D, which simply has flat prices for commodities. Given the context of the thread is casting wish, I think we can safely assume we're talking about the innate value of the material, absent any labor or transportation considerations (I'd argue that the innate value of a worked granite wall is higher than the value of the materials it's made from, but the OP's question is not about that finished product). That value is given by the rules (obvious caveat: in 3e, but not 5e as of yet, apparently). This back-and-forth seems to be about whether or not the rules' price makes sense, and my position is simply that it's good enough for D&D. Quibbling about the details doesn't really contribute to that discussion, for me.
All this math and analysis is fascinating but if a player just wanted a pretty wall to hang display shelves on in their demiplane, that seems fine to me. Make it granite or solid gold or unobtainium for all I care. Any piece of it that is taken outside the demiplane crumbles to dust.
My homebrew subclasses (full list here)
(Artificer) Swordmage | Glasswright | (Barbarian) Path of the Savage Embrace
(Bard) College of Dance | (Fighter) Warlord | Cannoneer
(Monk) Way of the Elements | (Ranger) Blade Dancer
(Rogue) DaggerMaster | Inquisitor | (Sorcerer) Riftwalker | Spellfist
(Warlock) The Swarm
this solution seems pretty good for what my players are trying to do at the min in the demiplane...... next time they probably try to do the same outside of the demiplane lol
He who fight and runaway live to fight another day
I'm here because i need to find out if my creation bard can produce and drop a 5ftx5ftx5ft cubes of like granite or limestone on people.
Regardless of cost, the answer is no because performance of creation specifies "The item must appear on a surface or in a liquid that can support it."
As the OP was taking about wish you can not do it with wish either, that has to appear "in an unoccupied space you can see on the ground"
A wish will ONLY copy another spell.
Wish is no longer the Wish spell of old.
Well that's entirely false. Wish is in the SRD, so luckily I can share the relevant text without going afoul of copyright:
A stone sphere on a set of stone stairs? I'm going for bugs bunny-esq antics in an upcoming campaign.