Ok, so I have a few questions. I had this idea of a Plasmoid Fighter who switches weapon styles mid fight as a cool theatrical character. I was wanting to hold 4 weapons in his body, like a Hand Axe, Longsword, Mace, and a Double-Bladed Scimitar, and when he draws or stows them, the item would "slurp" back into his body and just eject a different one.
I know there aren't general rules between separate creature types, but something that all Ooze's have been seen to do is hold something inside their body in some way, shape, or form. Now, would it make sense to allow a plasmoid to hold and store things inside it's body, such as weapons, potions, etc. as long as they had to strength and space to carry it all?
Also, the Plasmoids Shape Self ability says "While you have a humanlike shape, you can wear clothing and armor made for a Humanoid of your size." If you're attuned to a magic item, like a ring, amulet or hat, do you have to stay in the Humanoid form to keep their affects?
Lastly, in regards to items like Wand Sheath, Living Gloves, or heaven forbid, they are using the Artificers Arcane Propulsion Armor Infusion, what would happened to the item when you use Shape Self?
Also, the Plasmoids Shape Self ability says "While you have a humanlike shape, you can wear clothing and armor made for a Humanoid of your size." If you're attuned to a magic item, like a ring, amulet or hat, do you have to stay in the Humanoid form to keep their affects?
If it's an item that's meant to be worn or wielded, generally yes, you can't have a hat in your jelly belly. But you don't necessarily need the world's most sculpted head in order to wear it.
Stowing an item in your body is no different mechanically than putting it in a sheath, really. So that's fine. Being in a humanoid shape or not also isn't really going to matter unless the shape is engaging with the environment in a way a humanoid couldn't.
One issue your guy may have though is that you are only allowed one free object interaction on your turn, so stowing one weapon and drawing another technically takes your Action. However, this kind of a dumb rule and leads to people just getting around it by dropping their things on the ground, so you may want to talk with your DM about allowing you to do the full weapon swap using only your free object interaction. I don't think it would break anything.
One issue your guy may have though is that you are only allowed one free object interaction on your turn, so stowing one weapon and drawing another technically takes your Action. However, this kind of a dumb rule and leads to people just getting around it by dropping their things on the ground, so you may want to talk with your DM about allowing you to do the full weapon swap using only your free object interaction. I don't think it would break anything.
That's a good point, but I kinda forgot to mention they do have the Duel Wielder Feat lol So they already have the ability to draw and stow two one handed weapons. I talked to my friend about this interaction, and we both just thought of it logically: Duel Wielder lets you either stow or draw two one handed weapons, meaning you are basically just ambidextrous, having the ability to sheath or unsheath two weapons, so we didn't see an issue with someone being able to do both, draw one AND stow another.
I thought about this earlier, and allowed it, but now have thought some more and would disallow it.
The reason is simple. The creature description does not say it can hold things in it's body and if it was loaded 'internally' that would basically be consuming the objects put into it. While it is theoretically possible they could create a folded in shape, basically what you are doing is more like a woman hiding something small in her bosom and hugging herself tight to make sure it doesn't fall out.
In other words, you have a hard skin on your body, as stated in the description (stiffen the outer layer). Trying to store something inside the skin is the equivalent of swallowing a condom full of drugs, not the equivalent of putting something in a kangaroo pouch.
What you are actually proposing is the INVERSE of a psuedopod, which would be an entirely different ability that is not listed.
I see two ways that I would let you do this.
Make a custom racial feat that lets you hide any 1 object of upto one size smaller than your body. You can as a free action 'materialize it' or suck it back in, but only once per round.
Without a feat, I would let them spend a reaction and a bonus action every round to hold one object of upto one size smaller than your body. While doing this, you cannot use the normal psuedopod ability. In addition, when someone crits on you, you not only take damage as normal, but the object inside you also takes damage.
Finally, in all cases when you have an object in you, you would lose the Amorphous ability, in it's entirety (no grapple advantage).
The reason is simple. The creature no where says it can hold things in it's body and if it was loaded 'internally' that would basically be consuming the objects. put into it. While it is theoretically possible they could create a folded in shape, basically what you are doing is more like a woman hiding something small in her bosom and hugging herself tight to make sure it doesn't fall out.
Inn other words, you have a hard skin on your body, as stated in the description (stiffen the outer layer). Trying to store something inside the skin is the equivalent of swallowing a condom full of drugs, not the equivalent of putting something in a kangaroo pouch.
See, here's where my main issue comes from. The Plasmoid doesn't have a mouth, so it can easily be assumed that food and water can be added to any part of the body because it uses osmosis. To be able to eat food through osmosis, they need to let physical things inside of their body, not just water, so what's stopping them from letting anything else enter their body?
Also, the Race Details only state that they "can stiffen the outer layers of their body to maintain the humanoid form, so they can wear clothing and accessories." If they are the limbless blob, their outer layers aren't stiffened.
Also, I feel like I'm about to do some blasphemy for even mentioning this....but **** it.
In the Monster Manual, under Oozes, it does say:
"Since not every ooze digests every type of substance, some have coins, metal gear, bones, and other debris suspended within their quivering bodies. A slain ooze can be a rich source of treasure for its killers."
Now, I know, I know, creature types don't affect anything in particular other than what certain affects effect them, but, I feel like this quote does bring up something important when it comes to Oozes. A Plasmoid eats the same as other Oozes.
See, here's where my main issue comes from. The Plasmoid doesn't have a mouth, so it can easily be assumed that food and water can be added to any part of the body because it uses osmosis. To be able to eat food through osmosis, they need to let physical things inside of their body, not just water, so what's stopping them from letting anything else enter their body?
Osmosis is the spontaneous net movement or diffusion of solvent molecules through a selectively-permeable membrane from a region of high water potential (region of lower solute concentration) to a region of low water potential (region of higher solute concentration), in the direction that tends to equalize the solute concentrations on the two sides. Osmosis does not work on solids, by definition. They can presumably consume things that aren't water, such as milk, which is good, because otherwise they would starve - but they can only bring liquids into themselves through their outer membrane vis osmosis. Very small solids suspended or dissolved in the liquid should also work (e.g. it's a safe bet they can consume salt water and sugar water - and we explicitly know they can consume liquid dyes), but there's simply no evidence whatsoever they can "ingest" anything as large as a coin, let alone anything larger than that that's solid.
Note that plasmoids can breathe not via osmosis, but via "pores" they have - because, of course, osmosis doesn't work on gases.
Well, in Race Details, it says they eat through osmosis, the same way amoeba eat their food, and amoeba don't eat through osmosis. I took it as, their process of eating works the same way osmosis AND amoeba do, by both big slurp and basic absorption.
If the plasmoid was to attempt to 'eat' the object,
They still would not have the ability to eject the item. The plasmoid specifies it excretes waste through tiny pores. Demanding another ability not in the description.
It would be broken down. You do not have the ability to not digest stuff placed in your stomach.
It is true that some OTHER oozes have the ability to hold certain items in their body, but not all. The only ooze that mentions it is the Gelatinous Cube.
That was actually one of my points. Not all oozes have the ability to digest everything that goes in there body. That was stated in the Monster Manual.
Also, saying they wouldn't have the ability to "eject" an item is really silly. If you are holding something in your mouth, you can't spit it back out?
As per comparing the Plasmoid to an amoeba, that means it's officially stated that they can consume something into any part of their body. They don't have a mouth. No reason why you couldn't "eat" something in multiple parts of their body, then "spit" it out at some other point.
That got me thinking though. There are real world sword swallowers who end up not getting hurt from their action, and since a Plasmoid is like an amoeba, they don't just have a mouth they eat from, but rather their entire body that can "slurp" something in.
That was actually one of my points. Not all oozes have the ability to digest everything that goes in there body. That was stated in the Monster Manual.
Also, saying they wouldn't have the ability to "eject" an item is really silly. If you are holding something in your mouth, you can't spit it back out?
As per comparing the Plasmoid to an amoeba, that means it's officially stated that they can consume something into any part of their body. They don't have a mouth. No reason why you couldn't "eat" something in multiple parts of their body, then "spit" it out at some other point.
They are NOT holding an item in their mouth, they do not have a mouth (as you said). Mouths do not digest, they only break it up physically and let it into the real digestion system
You are theorizing they could hold an item in their STOMACH. Trying to eject something from your stomach is called vomiting. Can you vomit on command? More importantly, vomiting is not something you can presume a creature can do. The oozes do not have the ability to spit or vomit. They expressly said how they expel things, which is only through small pores.
The basic problem is you are trying to give this creature more powers than it has, in part by looking at what you can do and presuming it can do the same thing only more so. That's not how things work.
The creature does not have this ability it is a new power that is reasonable to grant to a similar race but was NOT granted to this one.
Which is why I think it is a reasonable thing for a feat to grant, but not reasonable at all to just declare they have the ability to do.
I get what you're saying, but oozes, including Plasmoids, don't have the same bodily functions and systems as humanoids.
Yes, we both pointed out they don't have mouths. Their entire body acts as their "mouth." However, they only stated how they excrete waste FROM digested food.
I was just reading some of Spelljammer Acadamy, and there's an acadamy event that gets a halfing running into a plasmoid and they get stuck in the plasmoid and have to pull themself out.
My DM ruling on this storing objects discussion...No.
The description makes no mention of this feature. That particular ability would definitely be in its description if allowed. You all are reaching for extra power gaming abilities that doesn't exist. Homebrew? Sure. But not RAW or even RAI. And using scientific reasoning about osmosis, as other scientific or real-world arguments, just doesn't fly in a fantasy game with rules and guidelines meant to keep balance.
And using scientific reasoning about osmosis, as other scientific or real-world arguments, just doesn't fly in a fantasy game with rules and guidelines meant to keep balance.
See, this is something I have an issue with, as do many others. You can easily use real world science in many ways to do things in D&D, if the DM allows. The fact of the matter is, Oozes are known to have things in their bodies...plus, there is a story in Spelljammers Academy where another student literally got stuck inside of a plasmoid.
Monsters and NPCs have always had access to features and abilities beyond those available to players. If something is mechanically significant, then it needs to be reasonably addressed in the racial traits. Anything else can be handwaved as flavor.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
To post a comment, please login or register a new account.
Ok, so I have a few questions.
I had this idea of a Plasmoid Fighter who switches weapon styles mid fight as a cool theatrical character. I was wanting to hold 4 weapons in his body, like a Hand Axe, Longsword, Mace, and a Double-Bladed Scimitar, and when he draws or stows them, the item would "slurp" back into his body and just eject a different one.
I know there aren't general rules between separate creature types, but something that all Ooze's have been seen to do is hold something inside their body in some way, shape, or form.
Now, would it make sense to allow a plasmoid to hold and store things inside it's body, such as weapons, potions, etc. as long as they had to strength and space to carry it all?
Also, the Plasmoids Shape Self ability says "While you have a humanlike shape, you can wear clothing and armor made for a Humanoid of your size." If you're attuned to a magic item, like a ring, amulet or hat, do you have to stay in the Humanoid form to keep their affects?
Lastly, in regards to items like Wand Sheath, Living Gloves, or heaven forbid, they are using the Artificers Arcane Propulsion Armor Infusion, what would happened to the item when you use Shape Self?
If it's an item that's meant to be worn or wielded, generally yes, you can't have a hat in your jelly belly. But you don't necessarily need the world's most sculpted head in order to wear it.
Birgit | Shifter | Sorcerer | Dragonlords
Shayone | Hobgoblin | Sorcerer | Netherdeep
Stowing an item in your body is no different mechanically than putting it in a sheath, really. So that's fine. Being in a humanoid shape or not also isn't really going to matter unless the shape is engaging with the environment in a way a humanoid couldn't.
One issue your guy may have though is that you are only allowed one free object interaction on your turn, so stowing one weapon and drawing another technically takes your Action. However, this kind of a dumb rule and leads to people just getting around it by dropping their things on the ground, so you may want to talk with your DM about allowing you to do the full weapon swap using only your free object interaction. I don't think it would break anything.
My homebrew subclasses (full list here)
(Artificer) Swordmage | Glasswright | (Barbarian) Path of the Savage Embrace
(Bard) College of Dance | (Fighter) Warlord | Cannoneer
(Monk) Way of the Elements | (Ranger) Blade Dancer
(Rogue) DaggerMaster | Inquisitor | (Sorcerer) Riftwalker | Spellfist
(Warlock) The Swarm
That's a good point, but I kinda forgot to mention they do have the Duel Wielder Feat lol So they already have the ability to draw and stow two one handed weapons. I talked to my friend about this interaction, and we both just thought of it logically: Duel Wielder lets you either stow or draw two one handed weapons, meaning you are basically just ambidextrous, having the ability to sheath or unsheath two weapons, so we didn't see an issue with someone being able to do both, draw one AND stow another.
I thought about this earlier, and allowed it, but now have thought some more and would disallow it.
The reason is simple. The creature description does not say it can hold things in it's body and if it was loaded 'internally' that would basically be consuming the objects put into it. While it is theoretically possible they could create a folded in shape, basically what you are doing is more like a woman hiding something small in her bosom and hugging herself tight to make sure it doesn't fall out.
In other words, you have a hard skin on your body, as stated in the description (stiffen the outer layer). Trying to store something inside the skin is the equivalent of swallowing a condom full of drugs, not the equivalent of putting something in a kangaroo pouch.
What you are actually proposing is the INVERSE of a psuedopod, which would be an entirely different ability that is not listed.
I see two ways that I would let you do this.
Finally, in all cases when you have an object in you, you would lose the Amorphous ability, in it's entirety (no grapple advantage).
See, here's where my main issue comes from. The Plasmoid doesn't have a mouth, so it can easily be assumed that food and water can be added to any part of the body because it uses osmosis. To be able to eat food through osmosis, they need to let physical things inside of their body, not just water, so what's stopping them from letting anything else enter their body?
Also, the Race Details only state that they "can stiffen the outer layers of their body to maintain the humanoid form, so they can wear clothing and accessories." If they are the limbless blob, their outer layers aren't stiffened.
Also, I feel like I'm about to do some blasphemy for even mentioning this....but **** it.
In the Monster Manual, under Oozes, it does say:
"Since not every ooze digests every type of substance, some have coins, metal gear, bones, and other debris suspended within their quivering bodies. A slain ooze can be a rich source of treasure for its killers."
Now, I know, I know, creature types don't affect anything in particular other than what certain affects effect them, but, I feel like this quote does bring up something important when it comes to Oozes. A Plasmoid eats the same as other Oozes.
Osmosis is the spontaneous net movement or diffusion of solvent molecules through a selectively-permeable membrane from a region of high water potential (region of lower solute concentration) to a region of low water potential (region of higher solute concentration), in the direction that tends to equalize the solute concentrations on the two sides. Osmosis does not work on solids, by definition. They can presumably consume things that aren't water, such as milk, which is good, because otherwise they would starve - but they can only bring liquids into themselves through their outer membrane vis osmosis. Very small solids suspended or dissolved in the liquid should also work (e.g. it's a safe bet they can consume salt water and sugar water - and we explicitly know they can consume liquid dyes), but there's simply no evidence whatsoever they can "ingest" anything as large as a coin, let alone anything larger than that that's solid.
Note that plasmoids can breathe not via osmosis, but via "pores" they have - because, of course, osmosis doesn't work on gases.
Well, in Race Details, it says they eat through osmosis, the same way amoeba eat their food, and amoeba don't eat through osmosis. I took it as, their process of eating works the same way osmosis AND amoeba do, by both big slurp and basic absorption.
Also, rereading the Race Details, I feel like the correct way to interpret it is as two separate statements
There's Osmosis for water.
AND
Theres the way amoeba eat their food.
It's still grammatically correct, and makes more sense, since amoeba eat things just like every other ooze creature does.
If the plasmoid was to attempt to 'eat' the object,
It is true that some OTHER oozes have the ability to hold certain items in their body, but not all. The only ooze that mentions it is the Gelatinous Cube.
That was actually one of my points. Not all oozes have the ability to digest everything that goes in there body. That was stated in the Monster Manual.
Also, saying they wouldn't have the ability to "eject" an item is really silly. If you are holding something in your mouth, you can't spit it back out?
As per comparing the Plasmoid to an amoeba, that means it's officially stated that they can consume something into any part of their body. They don't have a mouth. No reason why you couldn't "eat" something in multiple parts of their body, then "spit" it out at some other point.
That got me thinking though. There are real world sword swallowers who end up not getting hurt from their action, and since a Plasmoid is like an amoeba, they don't just have a mouth they eat from, but rather their entire body that can "slurp" something in.
They are NOT holding an item in their mouth, they do not have a mouth (as you said). Mouths do not digest, they only break it up physically and let it into the real digestion system
You are theorizing they could hold an item in their STOMACH. Trying to eject something from your stomach is called vomiting. Can you vomit on command? More importantly, vomiting is not something you can presume a creature can do. The oozes do not have the ability to spit or vomit. They expressly said how they expel things, which is only through small pores.
The basic problem is you are trying to give this creature more powers than it has, in part by looking at what you can do and presuming it can do the same thing only more so. That's not how things work.
The creature does not have this ability it is a new power that is reasonable to grant to a similar race but was NOT granted to this one.
Which is why I think it is a reasonable thing for a feat to grant, but not reasonable at all to just declare they have the ability to do.
I get what you're saying, but oozes, including Plasmoids, don't have the same bodily functions and systems as humanoids.
Yes, we both pointed out they don't have mouths. Their entire body acts as their "mouth." However, they only stated how they excrete waste FROM digested food.
I was just reading some of Spelljammer Acadamy, and there's an acadamy event that gets a halfing running into a plasmoid and they get stuck in the plasmoid and have to pull themself out.
My DM ruling on this storing objects discussion...No.
The description makes no mention of this feature. That particular ability would definitely be in its description if allowed. You all are reaching for extra power gaming abilities that doesn't exist. Homebrew? Sure. But not RAW or even RAI. And using scientific reasoning about osmosis, as other scientific or real-world arguments, just doesn't fly in a fantasy game with rules and guidelines meant to keep balance.
See, this is something I have an issue with, as do many others. You can easily use real world science in many ways to do things in D&D, if the DM allows. The fact of the matter is, Oozes are known to have things in their bodies...plus, there is a story in Spelljammers Academy where another student literally got stuck inside of a plasmoid.
What is Spelljammers Academy?
This is Spelljammers Academy. In one of the events that can happen, someone literally runs into a Plasmoid and gets stuck inside of them.
Monsters and NPCs have always had access to features and abilities beyond those available to players. If something is mechanically significant, then it needs to be reasonably addressed in the racial traits. Anything else can be handwaved as flavor.