I mean, by the rules I would say it seems that's RAW without any thought towards Intent. Personally, I would *hope* most DM's wouldn't run it that way, but somehow a magic sword of no particular enchantment (basic +1) can damage the mist at full damage, so I guess in terms of the simplistic approach to rules I can see a DM saying, "Of course your Goliath grapples the mist, what's it going to do about it?"
Hmm. I would say that the ability to move through tiny cracks makes you unable to be grappled by non-magical means.
But by the strictest RAW, it seems they can be grappled...
Thanks, and I "thanked" ur post not because I agree that that's how it should be but because I'm glad I'm not the only one kinda wrestling with keeping true to the KISS rules of 5e. In my personal view, I feel there should be a "Rule of Common Sense" that says it cannot be grappled, but the RAW is something I wanted to at least acknowledge. In running 'Curse of Strahd' for the first time, this is something I'd like to get ahead of.
It isn't easier, it's just RAW possible. I would apply advantage to rolls even though it isn't a save. Seems more like jelly form than gas seeing as you only resistance to non-magic not immunity so weapons can still hit you.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
"Sooner or later, your Players are going to smash your railroad into a sandbox."
-Vedexent
"real life is a super high CR."
-OboeLauren
"............anybody got any potatoes? We could drop a potato in each hole an' see which ones get viciously mauled by horrible monsters?"
Interesting, you're right. It's specifically the Vampire's Misty Form that is specifically Immune to all non magical damage, but that shows that magical damage - suggesting even magical weapons - can kill it (the vampire is at 0 hit points after all). The specific exception is sunlight. Honestly, this makes the vampirenfar weaker than I feel previous editions intended. My personal feeling of how it should be - not RAW or RAI, but in the spirit somewhere between Rules for Fun and Rules for Common Sense, would be that while in it's mist form, nothing except for Daylight and sunbeam type spells could hurt it, though other spells can lock it down (windwall, otiluke's resilient sphere perhaps, etc.) It does make me want to level up a very specific vampire to the point they have a contingency spell, for teleport if possible.
Edit: And nope, can't teleport with Contingency in 5e, cause that's a 7th level spell and Contingency only allows 5th or below. Well done, designers, well done.
Effectively because you can grapple and restrain a gaseous cloud / mist form, and the cloud can't take any actions to escape, except for the initial grapple check.
Edit: Technically it says you can't attack under Gaseous Form, whereas to escape a grapple just uses an action, so nvm actually. I suppose the only other argument I have for how it's easier (rather than trashing the gaseous form spell rules, which is what I turned to) is that you are only grappled normally and can still attack in regular form, while in gaseous you can't.
Either way, I feel like Wysperra hit a major point, in that this isn't really gaseous anything, considering the ways other characters and creatures can interact with you.
It does seem a little weird that you can be grappled at all, but it's clearly not exempted from the condition. It gives you advantage on STR and DEX checks, so unless you already had that to begin with, I would think you become harder to grapple.
And I take it you are interpreting the section "While in the form of a misty cloud, the target can't talk or manipulate objects, and any objects it was carrying or holding can't be dropped, used, or otherwise interacted with. The target can't attack or cast spells," to mean you cannot attempt to escape the condition? Isn't it a skill check to resist or break free? I don't see anything preventing skill checks against creatures, although perhaps nothing involving objects.
It gives you advantage on Strength, Dexterity, and Constitution Saving Throws. Nothing about ability checks or skill checks used to break the grapple. And yeah, in regards that one section, I initially must have skipped through that, but you are right that there is nothing saying you can't use an action or are prohibited from skill / ability checks.
I'm just picturing somebody inhaling the gaseous form to 'grapple' it...
For that matter, how much of your mist needs to be trapped to hold you? What happens if I put some of you in a jar? Can you turn back if you are separated like that? Does your hand or liver or something end up in my jar? There are a lot of interactions that could need DM ruling if you attempt to use this spell a lot.
RAI I'd say creatures such as Vampiric Mist and Air Elementals are immune to being grappled, so if your DM cares about consistency of the universe you probably should be too.
Interesting, you're right. It's specifically the Vampire's Misty Form that is specifically Immune to all non magical damage, but that shows that magical damage - suggesting even magical weapons - can kill it (the vampire is at 0 hit points after all).
Nope, its Misty Escape ability makes the vampire unkillable except as specified in that trait.
Interesting, you're right. It's specifically the Vampire's Misty Form that is specifically Immune to all non magical damage, but that shows that magical damage - suggesting even magical weapons - can kill it (the vampire is at 0 hit points after all).
Nope, its Misty Escape ability makes the vampire unkillable except as specified in that trait.
Yeah, being at 0 hit points does not make it 1 hit from dying. The Vampire can be killed instantly if you can do its max HP worth of damage in 1 hit, but otherwise damage is pointless.
The Spell: Gaseous Form
The Condition: Grappled
I mean, by the rules I would say it seems that's RAW without any thought towards Intent. Personally, I would *hope* most DM's wouldn't run it that way, but somehow a magic sword of no particular enchantment (basic +1) can damage the mist at full damage, so I guess in terms of the simplistic approach to rules I can see a DM saying, "Of course your Goliath grapples the mist, what's it going to do about it?"
Hmm. I would say that the ability to move through tiny cracks makes you unable to be grappled by non-magical means.
But by the strictest RAW, it seems they can be grappled...
Thanks, and I "thanked" ur post not because I agree that that's how it should be but because I'm glad I'm not the only one kinda wrestling with keeping true to the KISS rules of 5e. In my personal view, I feel there should be a "Rule of Common Sense" that says it cannot be grappled, but the RAW is something I wanted to at least acknowledge. In running 'Curse of Strahd' for the first time, this is something I'd like to get ahead of.
It isn't easier, it's just RAW possible. I would apply advantage to rolls even though it isn't a save. Seems more like jelly form than gas seeing as you only resistance to non-magic not immunity so weapons can still hit you.
"Sooner or later, your Players are going to smash your railroad into a sandbox."
-Vedexent
"real life is a super high CR."
-OboeLauren
"............anybody got any potatoes? We could drop a potato in each hole an' see which ones get viciously mauled by horrible monsters?"
-Ilyara Thundertale
Interesting, you're right. It's specifically the Vampire's Misty Form that is specifically Immune to all non magical damage, but that shows that magical damage - suggesting even magical weapons - can kill it (the vampire is at 0 hit points after all). The specific exception is sunlight. Honestly, this makes the vampirenfar weaker than I feel previous editions intended. My personal feeling of how it should be - not RAW or RAI, but in the spirit somewhere between Rules for Fun and Rules for Common Sense, would be that while in it's mist form, nothing except for Daylight and sunbeam type spells could hurt it, though other spells can lock it down (windwall, otiluke's resilient sphere perhaps, etc.) It does make me want to level up a very specific vampire to the point they have a contingency spell, for teleport if possible.
Edit: And nope, can't teleport with Contingency in 5e, cause that's a 7th level spell and Contingency only allows 5th or below. Well done, designers, well done.
I'm still trying to see where this makes it easier to grapple someone.
"Not all those who wander are lost"
Effectively because you can grapple and restrain a gaseous cloud / mist form, and the cloud can't take any actions to escape, except for the initial grapple check.
Edit: Technically it says you can't attack under Gaseous Form, whereas to escape a grapple just uses an action, so nvm actually. I suppose the only other argument I have for how it's easier (rather than trashing the gaseous form spell rules, which is what I turned to) is that you are only grappled normally and can still attack in regular form, while in gaseous you can't.
Either way, I feel like Wysperra hit a major point, in that this isn't really gaseous anything, considering the ways other characters and creatures can interact with you.
It does seem a little weird that you can be grappled at all, but it's clearly not exempted from the condition.
It gives you advantage on STR and DEX checks, so unless you already had that to begin with, I would think you become harder to grapple.And I take it you are interpreting the section "While in the form of a misty cloud, the target can't talk or manipulate objects, and any objects it was carrying or holding can't be dropped, used, or otherwise interacted with. The target can't attack or cast spells," to mean you cannot attempt to escape the condition? Isn't it a skill check to resist or break free? I don't see anything preventing skill checks against creatures, although perhaps nothing involving objects.
"Not all those who wander are lost"
It gives you advantage on Strength, Dexterity, and Constitution Saving Throws. Nothing about ability checks or skill checks used to break the grapple. And yeah, in regards that one section, I initially must have skipped through that, but you are right that there is nothing saying you can't use an action or are prohibited from skill / ability checks.
I stand corrected. Advantage on saving throws, not ability checks. I'll edit that.
"Not all those who wander are lost"
I'm just picturing somebody inhaling the gaseous form to 'grapple' it...
For that matter, how much of your mist needs to be trapped to hold you? What happens if I put some of you in a jar? Can you turn back if you are separated like that? Does your hand or liver or something end up in my jar? There are a lot of interactions that could need DM ruling if you attempt to use this spell a lot.
RAI I'd say creatures such as Vampiric Mist and Air Elementals are immune to being grappled, so if your DM cares about consistency of the universe you probably should be too.
My homebrew subclasses (full list here)
(Artificer) Swordmage | Glasswright | (Barbarian) Path of the Savage Embrace
(Bard) College of Dance | (Fighter) Warlord | Cannoneer
(Monk) Way of the Elements | (Ranger) Blade Dancer
(Rogue) DaggerMaster | Inquisitor | (Sorcerer) Riftwalker | Spellfist
(Warlock) The Swarm
I, too, would houserule grappling immunity when in mist form.
"Not all those who wander are lost"
Nope, its Misty Escape ability makes the vampire unkillable except as specified in that trait.
Yeah, being at 0 hit points does not make it 1 hit from dying. The Vampire can be killed instantly if you can do its max HP worth of damage in 1 hit, but otherwise damage is pointless.
I want to say there might be a few spells that bypass the whole unconscious thing and go straight to "If you hit points drop to 0 you die."
"Not all those who wander are lost"
True. Disintegrate for example. On the other hand, if you're a level 11+ wizard or sorcerer fighting vampires, you might as well cast Sunbeam.