Im a bit confused how this attack will actually work
Action Attack two-handed: 2d6+1 ( 1 for the count only) + 1d8 (green-flame blade) + 2d8 (smite) is this correct? or because we are using the cantrip for the green-flame blade you cant use smite? cause if you can use it like that you can get some paranoic numbers especially if you crt...
EDIT: do you count the damage from the sword or you only get the damage from the cantrip?
Edits: I got Crits and Great-Weapon Fighting Style confused for a bit. My apologies.
If you cast the Cantrip and hit with the sword then the sword does it’s damage, and the spell does it’s damage too. If you crit, any damage done by the weapon gets doubled. The damage done by the spell is considered separate.
As part of the action used to cast this spell, you must make a melee attack with a weapon against one creature within the spell’s range, otherwise the spell fails. On a hit, the target suffers the attack’s normal effects, and green fire leaps from the target to a different creature of your choice that you can see within 5 feet of it. The second creature takes fire damage equal to your spellcasting ability modifier.
This spell’s damage increases when you reach higher levels. At 5th level, the melee attack deals an extra 1d8 fire damage to the target, and the fire damage to the second creature increases to 1d8 + your spellcasting ability modifier. Both damage rolls increase by 1d8 at 11th level and 17th level.
* - (a weapon)
If you use a Smite Spell such as Searing Smite, the spell says that the Attack itself deals the extra damage, so that damage would get doubled by a crit.
The next time you hit a creature with a melee weapon attack during the spell’s duration, your weapon flares with white-hot intensity, and the attack deals an extra 1d6 fire damage to the target and causes the target to ignite in flames. At the start of each of its turns until the spell ends, the target must make a Constitution saving throw. On a failed save, it takes 1d6 fire damage. On a successful save, the spell ends. If the target or a creature within 5 feet of it uses an action to put out the flames, or if some other effect douses the flames (such as the target being submerged in water), the spell ends.
At Higher Levels. When you cast this spell using a spell slot of 2nd level or higher, the initial extra damage dealt by the attack increases by 1d6 for each slot.
If you use a Paladin’s Divine Smite, it specifies that you deal the extra damage, not the attack, so that means that damage would not get doubled on a crit, but the 11th-level “Improved Divine Smite” specifies that the Attack deals the extra damage, so that does get doubled. It all comes down to if “the attack” did the extra damage, “you” do the extra damage, or “the spell” deals the extra damage. Confused? Don’t be, it all comes down to the rule for critical hits:
Critical Hits
When you score a critical hit, you get to roll extra dice for the attack's damage against the target. Roll all of the attack's damage dice twice and add them together. Then add any relevant modifiers as normal. To speed up play, you can roll all the damage dice at once.
For example, if you score a critical hit with a dagger, roll 2d4 for the damage, rather than 1d4, and then add your relevant ability modifier. If the attack involves other damage dice, such as from the rogue's Sneak Attack feature, you roll those dice twice as well.
Also, while you could cast Searing Smite as a bonus action, you could then also use the Divine Smite ability, but not also the Green-Flame Blade, because Searing Smite, and the Divine Smite ability interact with “melee weapon attacks” and Green-Flame Blade uses the “Cast a Spell Action,” not the “Attack” action, so while you do “make a melee attack using a weapon” as part of the casting, it does not constitute a “melee weapon attack.”
Divine Smite
Starting at 2nd level, when you hit a creature with a melee weapon attack, you can expend one spell slot to deal radiant damage to the target, in addition to the weapon’s damage. The extra damage is 2d8 for a 1st-level spell slot, plus 1d8 for each spell level higher than 1st, to a maximum of 5d8. The damage increases by 1d8 if the target is an undead or a fiend, to a maximum of 6d8.
"When you score a critical hit, roll all of the attack's damage dice again, no matter the source of the dice."
This includes but is not limited to: Sneak Attack, Hex, Hunter's Mark, Superiority Dice, Inspiration Dice, AND a Paladin's Divine Smite(https://www.sageadvice.eu/2015/12/28/can-a-paladin-with-a-critical-choose-to-use-divine-smite/). That's what makes Paladins so good at spike damage, they can save their Divine Smites for when they land a crit and really pour it on. This also includes the initial damage from both Green-Flame and Booming Blade, but not the secondary damage(the splash damage for Green-Flame, and the move-and-ouch damage of Booming Blade). What is NOT included is extra damage dealt by a weapon if it requires the target to fail a saving throw, such as the poison damage from a Dagger Of Venom, or other secondary effects that are not part of the attack.
If you cast the Cantrip and hit with the sword then the sword does it’s damage, and the spell does it’s damage too. If you crit, any damage done by the weapon gets doubled. The damage done by the spell is considered separate.
As part of the action used to cast this spell, you must make a melee attack with a weapon against one creature within the spell’s range, otherwise the spell fails. On a hit, the target suffers the attack’s normal effects, and green fire leaps from the target to a different creature of your choice that you can see within 5 feet of it. The second creature takes fire damage equal to your spellcasting ability modifier.
This spell’s damage increases when you reach higher levels. At 5th level, the melee attack deals an extra 1d8 fire damage to the target, and the fire damage to the second creature increases to 1d8 + your spellcasting ability modifier. Both damage rolls increase by 1d8 at 11th level and 17th level.
* - (a weapon)
If you use a Smite Spell such as Searing Smite, the spell says that the Attack itself deals the extra damage, so that damage would get doubled by a crit.
The next time you hit a creature with a melee weapon attack during the spell’s duration, your weapon flares with white-hot intensity, and the attack deals an extra 1d6 fire damage to the target and causes the target to ignite in flames. At the start of each of its turns until the spell ends, the target must make a Constitution saving throw. On a failed save, it takes 1d6 fire damage. On a successful save, the spell ends. If the target or a creature within 5 feet of it uses an action to put out the flames, or if some other effect douses the flames (such as the target being submerged in water), the spell ends.
At Higher Levels. When you cast this spell using a spell slot of 2nd level or higher, the initial extra damage dealt by the attack increases by 1d6 for each slot.
If you use a Paladin’s Divine Smite, it specifies that you deal the extra damage, not the attack, so that means that damage would not get doubled on a crit, but the 11th-level “Improved Divine Smite” specifies that the Attack deals the extra damage, so that does get doubled. It all comes down to if “the attack” did the extra damage, “you” do the extra damage, or “the spell” deals the extra damage. Confused? Don’t be, it all comes down to the rule for critical hits:
Critical Hits
When you score a critical hit, you get to roll extra dice for the attack's damage against the target. Roll all of the attack's damage dice twice and add them together. Then add any relevant modifiers as normal. To speed up play, you can roll all the damage dice at once.
For example, if you score a critical hit with a dagger, roll 2d4 for the damage, rather than 1d4, and then add your relevant ability modifier. If the attack involves other damage dice, such as from the rogue's Sneak Attack feature, you roll those dice twice as well.
I'm going to have to disagree with Searing Smite and Divine Smite not interacting with Green Flame Blade. You do have to make a melee attack with a weapon as part of the spell which would constitute a melee weapon attack. It doesn't specify the source of the attack has to be from the Attack action, like Two-Weapon Fighting:
When you take the Attack action and attack with a light melee weapon that you're holding in one hand, you can use a bonus action to attack with a different light melee weapon that you're holding in the other hand. You don't add your ability modifier to the damage of the bonus attack, unless that modifier is negative.
Either Searing Smite (assuming it was cast and not used on your turn) or Divine Smite would be useable on an Opportunity Attack, which uses a reaction and not the Attack action.
However, to the OP, this does bring up the point that you'll want to discuss with the DM how this interaction will occur for them. It doesn't matter if I'm right and IamSposta is wrong or vice versa if your DM decides that the "wrong" interpretation will be the one they'll be using. You can use the discussion here to try to persuade them that it should work the way you want it to, that's part of the strength of having the forums available. Just make sure that discussion is had so you're not sinking resources into a build that won't work in your DMs world.
Edit: so I quoted the wrong post for the interaction between the smites and the cantrip.
I always assumed that Green-Flame Blade’s “make an attack using a melee weapon” was still a spell attack, just using the weapon. Otherwise why didn’t they just say “make a melee-weapon attack” and keep it consistent with everything else?
The wording is also different from Shocking Grasp even disregarding the weapon part. If you don't make the weapon attack (which keys off of your melee attack stat and not your spellcasting stat), then the spell fails. If you don't have a weapon, that's an auto-fail. These differences are why the SCAG spells are so popular for melee builds that aren't boosting their spellcasting stat.
I always assumed that Green-Flame Blade’s “make an attack using a melee weapon” was still a spell attack, just using the weapon. Otherwise why didn’t they just say “make a melee-weapon attack” and keep it consistent with everything else?
To prevent it from working with unarmed attacks, because those are also melee weapon attacks as defined by the rules, but they are not attacks with a melee weapon.
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Canto alla vita alla sua bellezza ad ogni sua ferita ogni sua carezza!
I sing to life and to its tragic beauty To pain and to strife, but all that dances through me The rise and the fall, I've lived through it all!
I always assumed that Green-Flame Blade’s “make an attack using a melee weapon” was still a spell attack, just using the weapon. Otherwise why didn’t they just say “make a melee-weapon attack” and keep it consistent with everything else?
To prevent it from working with unarmed attacks, because those are also melee weapon attacks as defined by the rules, but they are not attacks with a melee weapon.
Gotcha. Which is 🐂💩, Booming Blade would make a great thing for a Monk to do.
I always assumed that Green-Flame Blade’s “make an attack using a melee weapon” was still a spell attack, just using the weapon. Otherwise why didn’t they just say “make a melee-weapon attack” and keep it consistent with everything else?
To prevent it from working with unarmed attacks, because those are also melee weapon attacks as defined by the rules, but they are not attacks with a melee weapon.
Gotcha. Which is 🐂💩, Booming Blade would make a great thing for a Monk to do.
Still can with a shortsword or quarterstaff. Just can't do it and bonus action unarmed attack or flurry of blows.
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hello there
Im a bit confused how this attack will actually work
Action Attack two-handed: 2d6+1 ( 1 for the count only) + 1d8 (green-flame blade) + 2d8 (smite) is this correct? or because we are using the cantrip for the green-flame blade you cant use smite? cause if you can use it like that you can get some paranoic numbers especially if you crt...
EDIT: do you count the damage from the sword or you only get the damage from the cantrip?
tnx in advance..
Edits: I got Crits and Great-Weapon Fighting Style confused for a bit. My apologies.
If you cast the Cantrip and hit with the sword then the sword does it’s damage, and the spell does it’s damage too.
If you crit, any damage done by the weapon gets doubled. The damage done by the spell is considered separate.If you use a Smite Spell such as Searing Smite,
the spell says that the Attack itself deals the extra damage, sothat damage would get doubled by a crit.If you use a Paladin’s Divine Smite,
it specifies that you deal the extra damage, not the attack, so that means that damage would not get doubled on a crit, butthe 11th-level “Improved Divine Smite”specifies that the Attack deals the extra damage, so that doesget doubled.It all comes down to if “the attack” did the extra damage, “you” do the extra damage, or “the spell” deals the extra damage. Confused? Don’t be, it all comes down to the rule for critical hits:Creating Epic Boons on DDB
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Also, while you could cast Searing Smite as a bonus action, you could then also use the Divine Smite ability, but not also the Green-Flame Blade, because Searing Smite, and the Divine Smite ability interact with “melee weapon attacks” and Green-Flame Blade uses the “Cast a Spell Action,” not the “Attack” action, so while you do “make a melee attack using a weapon” as part of the casting, it does not constitute a “melee weapon attack.”
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amazing analysis... thank you very much for your time.
👍
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Per Jeremy Crawford on Twitter a few years ago(https://twitter.com/JeremyECrawford/status/741455783339003904)
"When you score a critical hit, roll all of the attack's damage dice again, no matter the source of the dice."
This includes but is not limited to: Sneak Attack, Hex, Hunter's Mark, Superiority Dice, Inspiration Dice, AND a Paladin's Divine Smite(https://www.sageadvice.eu/2015/12/28/can-a-paladin-with-a-critical-choose-to-use-divine-smite/). That's what makes Paladins so good at spike damage, they can save their Divine Smites for when they land a crit and really pour it on. This also includes the initial damage from both Green-Flame and Booming Blade, but not the secondary damage(the splash damage for Green-Flame, and the move-and-ouch damage of Booming Blade). What is NOT included is extra damage dealt by a weapon if it requires the target to fail a saving throw, such as the poison damage from a Dagger Of Venom, or other secondary effects that are not part of the attack.
Yes, critical hits double the dice of the whole attack, not just the weapon's damage.
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Spells, Monsters, Subclasses, Races, Arcknight Class, Occultist Class, World, Enigmatic Esoterica forms
I'm going to have to disagree with Searing Smite and Divine Smite not interacting with Green Flame Blade. You do have to make a melee attack with a weapon as part of the spell which would constitute a melee weapon attack. It doesn't specify the source of the attack has to be from the Attack action, like Two-Weapon Fighting:
When you take the Attack action and attack with a light melee weapon that you're holding in one hand, you can use a bonus action to attack with a different light melee weapon that you're holding in the other hand. You don't add your ability modifier to the damage of the bonus attack, unless that modifier is negative.
Either Searing Smite (assuming it was cast and not used on your turn) or Divine Smite would be useable on an Opportunity Attack, which uses a reaction and not the Attack action.
However, to the OP, this does bring up the point that you'll want to discuss with the DM how this interaction will occur for them. It doesn't matter if I'm right and IamSposta is wrong or vice versa if your DM decides that the "wrong" interpretation will be the one they'll be using. You can use the discussion here to try to persuade them that it should work the way you want it to, that's part of the strength of having the forums available. Just make sure that discussion is had so you're not sinking resources into a build that won't work in your DMs world.
Edit: so I quoted the wrong post for the interaction between the smites and the cantrip.
Thank you, yes. I was getting things mixed up with Great-Weapon Fighting Style.
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I always assumed that Green-Flame Blade’s “make an attack using a melee weapon” was still a spell attack, just using the weapon. Otherwise why didn’t they just say “make a melee-weapon attack” and keep it consistent with everything else?
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The wording is also different from Shocking Grasp even disregarding the weapon part. If you don't make the weapon attack (which keys off of your melee attack stat and not your spellcasting stat), then the spell fails. If you don't have a weapon, that's an auto-fail. These differences are why the SCAG spells are so popular for melee builds that aren't boosting their spellcasting stat.
To prevent it from working with unarmed attacks, because those are also melee weapon attacks as defined by the rules, but they are not attacks with a melee weapon.
Canto alla vita
alla sua bellezza
ad ogni sua ferita
ogni sua carezza!
I sing to life and to its tragic beauty
To pain and to strife, but all that dances through me
The rise and the fall, I've lived through it all!
Gotcha. Which is 🐂💩, Booming Blade would make a great thing for a Monk to do.
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Still can with a shortsword or quarterstaff. Just can't do it and bonus action unarmed attack or flurry of blows.