I am currently playing a barbarian in a campaign and gained the ability danger sense. The text from the book reads as follows:- "you gain an uncanny sense of when things nearby aren't as they should be, giving you an edge when you dodge away from danger. You have advantage on Dexterity saving throws against effects that you can see, such as traps and spells. To gain this benefit, you can't be blinded, deafened, or incapacitated."
When faced with a trap that no one spotted which has a Dex saving throw would the barbarian get to use his danger sense?
I ask because every time my party fail to spot a trap the DM refuses to let my barbarian character use advantage on the Dex saving throw due to this part of the text You have advantage on Dexterity saving throws against effects that you can see,"
The feature requires you to see the trap's effect, it doesn't matter in the slightest if you do or don't see the trap itself.
Example 1: Pressure-Plate triggers a barrage of spikes to rain down.
You don't see the triggering pressure plate but you will hear movement above and see the spikes. You get advantage.
Example 2: Two Glyphs of Warding : first is triggered when you step upon it to cast Blindness/Deafness (Blindness Option) on you and second one triggers after the first resolves to launch Disintegrate spell.
You fail theCon save against Blindness, now you cannot see the disintegrating magic launching you. No advantage, in fact since you cannot see it you will actually have disadvantage.
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There will be exceptionally few instances where a trap or spell effect requiring a Dex save cannot be seen.
Your DM is wrong based on RAW. However, I can only base this on what you say. Can you provide an example of something that happened in the game where they denied the advantage?
However, they are the DM and can change rules as they want. So, even if they're "wrong" it doesn't mean they have to do anything differently. So best you can do is talk to them, but if they refuse to do anything different, then you're out of luck.
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The wording does leave the interpretation up to the DM for edge cases, but I believe the intention is as follows:
Unless something prevents the Barbarian to see the effect (such as being blinded, an illusion masking it, darkness without darkvision, it being otherwise heavily obscured, etc), Danger Sense works.
If you want a thematic reasoning, well, it's not important if you can avoid a hidden trap that hasn't been triggered yet (i.e., you failed to notice it was there). The barbarian just reacts quicker when the obvious part of the trap (or other effect) happens.
Rocks fall! The fighter jerks back, getting hit by a couple before he manages to raise his shield. The cleric looks upwards and blinks for a moment before he tries to avoid getting crushed. The barbarian clenches like a wounded spring and jumps away, always ready for trouble! ...the rogue calmly assesses the pattern of falling rocks and takes a half-step to his right, avoiding them all...
What would be the point in giving you advantage on a trap that you already know about? The rogue points out a bear trap in a pile of leaves ahead. "You have an uncanny sense that when you rake back the leaves and carefully place your foot into the bear trap and press down on the trigger plate setting off the collapsing steel jaws that something bad will happen to your foot if you don't move it." Rogue is amazed by your uncanny ability to sense the trap he just detected is dangerous. Pretty sure my 9 year old can sense that.
I understand the conventional wisdom is that danger sense pretty much always gives advantage on dex saves. exception being; you are blinded, unconscious or the source cannot be seen for whatever reason (as in an invisible fireball from another dimension).
I would recommend you ask your DM to explain when you "do" get the benefits of the danger sense feature. That should help you adjust your expectations.
We had a pit fall trap where the floor gave way and he asked me to roll a dex save to avoid the trap. I failed the first roll and then said I have danger sense and it allows me to reroll due to advantage on dex saving throws.
He and another player read the text out of the book and said "No you don't get that advantage because you didn't see the trap."
That is the first example, there have been others with spiked walls as well.
It seems he read it wrong. You only need to see the effect, not the trap. The effect was the floor giving way, and you could see that.
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We had a pit fall trap where the floor gave way and he asked me to roll a dex save to avoid the trap. I failed the first roll and then said I have danger sense and it allows me to reroll due to advantage on dex saving throws.
He and another player read the text out of the book and said "No you don't get that advantage because you didn't see the trap."
This is a great example of where you ask, "then when would danger sense apply?"
If you saw the trap, there would never have been a dex save in the first place.
Traps are explicitly called out in the description, and when you detect a trap, you don't set it off so there's no save. Are you supposed to do an Arcana check when an enemy casts a spell so you know that's coming too?
If they stick by their ruling, you should ask if you can use the feature that replaces Danger Sense in the Class Variant Rules because their ruling makes the feature completely worthless.
Can a barbarian be surprised by an invisible opponent?
Yes, to a degree. The following effects apply:
An invisible opponent gets advantage on the barbarian whether or not there is surprise.
Danger Sense does not affect surprise, and would not apply to a dex save where the source is an invisible foe.
Feral Instinct means you can get a normal action during a surprise round, which negates most of the penalties for being surprised, but you are still surprised.
Can a barbarian be surprised by an invisible opponent?
Yes, to a degree. The following effects apply:
An invisible opponent gets advantage on the barbarian whether or not there is surprise.
Danger Sense does not affect surprise, and would not apply to a dex save where the source is an invisible foe.
Feral Instinct means you can get a normal action during a surprise round, which negates most of the penalties for being surprised, but you are still surprised.
I think you mean "first round of combat" rather than "surprise round", since the latter does not exist in 5E.
Also Feral Instinct only negates the penalties once your initiative number occurs in combat, before that you are still considered surprised.
Also Feral Instinct only negates the penalties once your initiative number occurs in combat, before that you are still considered surprised.
By far the most significant penalty of being surprised is losing a turn. Yes, you won't be able to take reactions before your turn comes up, and abilities such as Assassinate will function on you, but those come up a lot less often than losing an action.
Can a barbarian be surprised by an invisible opponent?
In 5E it's best to think of Surprised as a condition, like Grappled/Stunned/etc. Barbarians aren't immune to being Surprised. If the invisible opponent was stealthing, and they beat the Barbarian's passive Perception, then yes the Barbarian would be surprised. Under normal circumstances, that would mean the Barbarian remains surprised until the end of their first turn in combat, they wouldn't be able to move or take an action on that first turn, and wouldn't be able to take a reaction until after that turn ended. Once the Barbarian hits Level 7, if they aren't otherwise Incapacitated(asleep, paralyzed, etc), they can act normally on that first turn even if they were Surprised because of their Feral Instinct ability. The catch is it only works if they use their Bonus Action to Rage at the start of that turn. Which, let's be honest, they were probably gonna do anyway because someone trying to sneak up on them probably ticked them off :) But they're still surprised until they actually take that first turn. So if the enemy Rogue Assassin beats them in the Initiative order, they can still try for the auto-crit in that first round from their Assassinate ability.
Example 2: Two Glyphs of Warding : first is triggered when you step upon it to cast Blindness/Deafness (Blindness Option) on you and second one triggers after the first resolves to launch Disintegrate spell.
You fail theCon save against Blindness, now you cannot see the disintegrating magic launching you. No advantage, in fact since you cannot see it you will actually have disadvantage.
Minor correction on this one: if you are blinded you automatically fail saves that require sight. The barbarian in your case will automatically fail their DEX save against the disintegrate spell trap.
Minor correction on this one: if you are blinded you automatically fail saves that require sight. The barbarian in your case will automatically fail their DEX save against the disintegrate spell trap.
Minor correction, being blinded doesn't affect saving throws but ability checks this way.
Blinded: A blinded creature can’t see and automatically fails any ability check that requires sight.
We had a pit fall trap where the floor gave way and he asked me to roll a dex save to avoid the trap. I failed the first roll and then said I have danger sense and it allows me to reroll due to advantage on dex saving throws.
He and another player read the text out of the book and said "No you don't get that advantage because you didn't see the trap."
This is a great example of where you ask, "then when would danger sense apply?"
If you saw the trap, there would never have been a dex save in the first place.
Traps are explicitly called out in the description, and when you detect a trap, you don't set it off so there's no save. Are you supposed to do an Arcana check when an enemy casts a spell so you know that's coming too?
If they stick by their ruling, you should ask if you can use the feature that replaces Danger Sense in the Class Variant Rules because their ruling makes the feature completely worthless.
I'm of the same mindset... if your DM won't allow you to use Danger Sense in that situation, you're better off asking to replace it with a different feature. Hopefully you can resolve this with your DM, since it's common to occasionally misunderstand rules. This is one of those abilities that often gets misinterpreted, so I don't blame your DM for not fully understanding how it works, but hopefully some of the advice you've been given in this thread will help you to convince them to let the feature work as intended.
I'm of the same mindset... if your DM won't allow you to use Danger Sense in that situation, you're better off asking to replace it with a different feature.
To be fair, danger sense as written is complete nonsense, as its only effective against obvious dangers. It should be something like:
At 2nd level, you gain an uncanny sense of when things nearby aren’t as they should be, giving you an edge against unseen dangers.
You have advantage on Dexterity saves vs traps, and attacks on you by hidden, invisible, or unseen opponents do not have advantage.
I can see that. Honestly, I think it's mostly just intended to make up for the fact that Barbs generally aren't going to have great DEX, so the class is given a few abilities to compensate for that (advantage on DEX saves, Advantage on Initiative). I think the name "Danger Sense" might not be the ideal name for the feature... maybe something like "Survival Instinct" or something. I think the name "Danger Sense" kind of brings to mind the abilities granted by the Alert feat.
I am currently playing a barbarian in a campaign and gained the ability danger sense. The text from the book reads as follows:- "you gain an uncanny sense of when things nearby aren't as they should be, giving you an edge when you dodge away from danger. You have advantage on Dexterity saving throws against effects that you can see, such as traps and spells. To gain this benefit, you can't be blinded, deafened, or incapacitated."
When faced with a trap that no one spotted which has a Dex saving throw would the barbarian get to use his danger sense?
I ask because every time my party fail to spot a trap the DM refuses to let my barbarian character use advantage on the Dex saving throw due to this part of the text You have advantage on Dexterity saving throws against effects that you can see,"
Is he correct in this?
The feature requires you to see the trap's effect, it doesn't matter in the slightest if you do or don't see the trap itself.
Example 1: Pressure-Plate triggers a barrage of spikes to rain down.
You don't see the triggering pressure plate but you will hear movement above and see the spikes. You get advantage.
Example 2: Two Glyphs of Warding : first is triggered when you step upon it to cast Blindness/Deafness (Blindness Option) on you and second one triggers after the first resolves to launch Disintegrate spell.
You fail theCon save against Blindness, now you cannot see the disintegrating magic launching you. No advantage, in fact since you cannot see it you will actually have disadvantage.
-
There will be exceptionally few instances where a trap or spell effect requiring a Dex save cannot be seen.
Your DM is wrong based on RAW. However, I can only base this on what you say. Can you provide an example of something that happened in the game where they denied the advantage?
However, they are the DM and can change rules as they want. So, even if they're "wrong" it doesn't mean they have to do anything differently. So best you can do is talk to them, but if they refuse to do anything different, then you're out of luck.
Click ✨ HERE ✨ For My Youtube Videos featuring Guides, Tips & Tricks for using D&D Beyond.
Need help with Homebrew? Check out ✨ this FAQ/Guide thread ✨ by IamSposta.
The wording does leave the interpretation up to the DM for edge cases, but I believe the intention is as follows:
Unless something prevents the Barbarian to see the effect (such as being blinded, an illusion masking it, darkness without darkvision, it being otherwise heavily obscured, etc), Danger Sense works.
If you want a thematic reasoning, well, it's not important if you can avoid a hidden trap that hasn't been triggered yet (i.e., you failed to notice it was there). The barbarian just reacts quicker when the obvious part of the trap (or other effect) happens.
Rocks fall!
The fighter jerks back, getting hit by a couple before he manages to raise his shield.
The cleric looks upwards and blinks for a moment before he tries to avoid getting crushed.
The barbarian clenches like a wounded spring and jumps away, always ready for trouble!
...the rogue calmly assesses the pattern of falling rocks and takes a half-step to his right, avoiding them all...
Edit: Ninja'd. shakes fist at Cyb3rM1nd
What would be the point in giving you advantage on a trap that you already know about? The rogue points out a bear trap in a pile of leaves ahead. "You have an uncanny sense that when you rake back the leaves and carefully place your foot into the bear trap and press down on the trigger plate setting off the collapsing steel jaws that something bad will happen to your foot if you don't move it." Rogue is amazed by your uncanny ability to sense the trap he just detected is dangerous. Pretty sure my 9 year old can sense that.
I understand the conventional wisdom is that danger sense pretty much always gives advantage on dex saves. exception being; you are blinded, unconscious or the source cannot be seen for whatever reason (as in an invisible fireball from another dimension).
I would recommend you ask your DM to explain when you "do" get the benefits of the danger sense feature. That should help you adjust your expectations.
Jesus Saves!... Everyone else takes damage.
We had a pit fall trap where the floor gave way and he asked me to roll a dex save to avoid the trap. I failed the first roll and then said I have danger sense and it allows me to reroll due to advantage on dex saving throws.
He and another player read the text out of the book and said "No you don't get that advantage because you didn't see the trap."
That is the first example, there have been others with spiked walls as well.
It seems he read it wrong. You only need to see the effect, not the trap. The effect was the floor giving way, and you could see that.
Click ✨ HERE ✨ For My Youtube Videos featuring Guides, Tips & Tricks for using D&D Beyond.
Need help with Homebrew? Check out ✨ this FAQ/Guide thread ✨ by IamSposta.
This is a great example of where you ask, "then when would danger sense apply?"
If you saw the trap, there would never have been a dex save in the first place.
Traps are explicitly called out in the description, and when you detect a trap, you don't set it off so there's no save. Are you supposed to do an Arcana check when an enemy casts a spell so you know that's coming too?
If they stick by their ruling, you should ask if you can use the feature that replaces Danger Sense in the Class Variant Rules because their ruling makes the feature completely worthless.
My homebrew subclasses (full list here)
(Artificer) Swordmage | Glasswright | (Barbarian) Path of the Savage Embrace
(Bard) College of Dance | (Fighter) Warlord | Cannoneer
(Monk) Way of the Elements | (Ranger) Blade Dancer
(Rogue) DaggerMaster | Inquisitor | (Sorcerer) Riftwalker | Spellfist
(Warlock) The Swarm
Can a barbarian be surprised by an invisible opponent?
Yes, to a degree. The following effects apply:
I think you mean "first round of combat" rather than "surprise round", since the latter does not exist in 5E.
Also Feral Instinct only negates the penalties once your initiative number occurs in combat, before that you are still considered surprised.
By far the most significant penalty of being surprised is losing a turn. Yes, you won't be able to take reactions before your turn comes up, and abilities such as Assassinate will function on you, but those come up a lot less often than losing an action.
In 5E it's best to think of Surprised as a condition, like Grappled/Stunned/etc. Barbarians aren't immune to being Surprised. If the invisible opponent was stealthing, and they beat the Barbarian's passive Perception, then yes the Barbarian would be surprised. Under normal circumstances, that would mean the Barbarian remains surprised until the end of their first turn in combat, they wouldn't be able to move or take an action on that first turn, and wouldn't be able to take a reaction until after that turn ended. Once the Barbarian hits Level 7, if they aren't otherwise Incapacitated(asleep, paralyzed, etc), they can act normally on that first turn even if they were Surprised because of their Feral Instinct ability. The catch is it only works if they use their Bonus Action to Rage at the start of that turn. Which, let's be honest, they were probably gonna do anyway because someone trying to sneak up on them probably ticked them off :) But they're still surprised until they actually take that first turn. So if the enemy Rogue Assassin beats them in the Initiative order, they can still try for the auto-crit in that first round from their Assassinate ability.
Minor correction on this one:
if you are blinded you automatically fail saves that require sight. The barbarian in your case will automatically fail their DEX save against the disintegrate spell trap.
Minor correction, being blinded doesn't affect saving throws but ability checks this way.
I'm of the same mindset... if your DM won't allow you to use Danger Sense in that situation, you're better off asking to replace it with a different feature. Hopefully you can resolve this with your DM, since it's common to occasionally misunderstand rules. This is one of those abilities that often gets misinterpreted, so I don't blame your DM for not fully understanding how it works, but hopefully some of the advice you've been given in this thread will help you to convince them to let the feature work as intended.
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To be fair, danger sense as written is complete nonsense, as its only effective against obvious dangers. It should be something like:
Honestly, I think you could simplify it to just "At 2nd Level, you have Advantage on all Dexterity Saving Throws".
I don't think it will make the class horribly broken if you take off the requirement of sight.
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My problem is that it isn't in any coherent way 'danger sense'.
I can see that. Honestly, I think it's mostly just intended to make up for the fact that Barbs generally aren't going to have great DEX, so the class is given a few abilities to compensate for that (advantage on DEX saves, Advantage on Initiative). I think the name "Danger Sense" might not be the ideal name for the feature... maybe something like "Survival Instinct" or something. I think the name "Danger Sense" kind of brings to mind the abilities granted by the Alert feat.
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