I know it's bad policy to post on old threads, but trying to revive these discussions with the concept of Quickdraw and carrying 10 or 12 hand crossbow. Or even 40 of them. Just dropping a you go, if even into like an open sack that hangs from your hip.
I know it's bad policy to post on old threads, but trying to revive these discussions with the concept of Quickdraw and carrying 10 or 12 hand crossbow. Or even 40 of them. Just dropping a you go, if even into like an open sack that hangs from your hip.
At 3 lbs a piece, you’re talking about 120 ponds of crossbows. Besides, you can only draw one crossbow for free each turn, the second one would cost you your whole Action.
This is a fairly old thread, but, where is it stated in the ammunition property that it requires a free hand to reload?
Edit: The book I have states exactly like this:
Ammunition. You can use a weapon that has the ammunition properly lo make a ranged attack only if you have ammunition to fire from the weapon. Each time you attack with the weapon, you expend one piece of ammunition. Drawing the ammunition from a quiver, case, or other container is part of the attack. At the end of the battle, you can recover half your expended ammunition by taking a minute lo search the battlefield.
Also, I went ahead and checked the updated version of the ammunition property and the crossbow expert description. The REVISED ammunition property says you do need a free hand to reload the crossbow, but at the same time, the REVISED crossbow expert does not require you have a second hand crossbow to make the extra attack.
Seems to me Crossbow expert can grant you an extra attack in either the original or revised description.
It seems that things are clarified in PHB 2024 for both Ammunition and Crossbow Expert:
From Ammunition on PHB p 213: Drawing the ammunition is part of the attack (you need a free hand to load a one-handed weapon)
From Crossbow Expert on PHB p 203: Ignore Loading. You ignore the Loading property of the Hand Crossbow, Heavy Crossbow, and Light Crossbow (all called crossbows elsewhere in this feat). If you're holding one of them, you can load a piece of ammunition into it even if you lack a free hand.
So it is now RAW to be able to make extra attacks and bonus action attacks with hand crossbows in both hands and no free hand is necessary
Yeah, Rimbol0123 is right, and one of the differences between the 2014 and 2024 feat is now you need to use a different Hand Crossbow if you want to attack twice. This is from the SAC:
I'm so confused by the fact that this is still confusing people...
Crossbows are special because of the Loading property and the free hand rule. Crossbow Expert removes both. So with that feat, it's like attacking with 2 shortswords: you have as many extra attacks as your class grants you for the hand crossbow in your main hand, and you have 1 attack with the hand crossbow in your off-hand thanks to the Light property. That's it.
It works just like it would with 2 light melee weapons.
I'm so confused by the fact that this is still confusing people...
Crossbows are special because of the Loading property and the free hand rule. Crossbow Expert removes both. So with that feat, it's like attacking with 2 shortswords: you have as many extra attacks as your class grants you for the hand crossbow in your main hand, and you have 1 attack with the hand crossbow in your off-hand thanks to the Light property. That's it.
It works just like it would with 2 light melee weapons.
The rules of holding a weapon in each hand states you need a light weapon...
Which is not the same as the extra attack described in the revised Crossbow Expert.
It's the Crossbow Expert giving you an extra attack, not fighting with 2 weapons.
"
When you use the Attack action and attack with a one handed weapon, you can use a bonus action to attack with a hand crossbow you are holding.
" This text is, IMO, very bad worded, but you can interpret you are holding a [1 handed melee weapon and a hand cross] OR just having [one hand crossbow]. Either way, just by this text, you get an extra shot.
Edit: This allows even you to have a 1 handed crossbow and shield; and still get the extra shot.
The rules of holding a weapon in each hand states you need a light weapon...
Which is not the same as the extra attack described in the revised Crossbow Expert.
It's the Crossbow Expert giving you an extra attack, not fighting with 2 weapons.
The revised Crossbow Expert has no extra attack on its own and therefore rely on the extra attack of the Light property.
Dual Wielding. When you make the extra attack of the Light property, you can add your ability modifier to the damage of the extra attack if that attack is with a crossbow that has the Light property and you aren't already adding that modifier to the damage.
I know it's bad policy to post on old threads, but trying to revive these discussions with the concept of Quickdraw and carrying 10 or 12 hand crossbow. Or even 40 of them. Just dropping a you go, if even into like an open sack that hangs from your hip.
At 3 lbs a piece, you’re talking about 120 ponds of crossbows. Besides, you can only draw one crossbow for free each turn, the second one would cost you your whole Action.
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This is a fairly old thread, but, where is it stated in the ammunition property that it requires a free hand to reload?
Also, I went ahead and checked the updated version of the ammunition property and the crossbow expert description.
The REVISED ammunition property says you do need a free hand to reload the crossbow, but at the same time, the REVISED crossbow expert does not require you have a second hand crossbow to make the extra attack.
Seems to me Crossbow expert can grant you an extra attack in either the original or revised description.
It seems that things are clarified in PHB 2024 for both Ammunition and Crossbow Expert:
From Ammunition on PHB p 213: Drawing the ammunition is part of the attack (you need a free hand to load a one-handed weapon)
From Crossbow Expert on PHB p 203: Ignore Loading. You ignore the Loading property of the Hand Crossbow, Heavy Crossbow, and Light Crossbow (all called crossbows elsewhere in this feat). If you're holding one of them, you can load a piece of ammunition into it even if you lack a free hand.
So it is now RAW to be able to make extra attacks and bonus action attacks with hand crossbows in both hands and no free hand is necessary
Yeah, Rimbol0123 is right, and one of the differences between the 2014 and 2024 feat is now you need to use a different Hand Crossbow if you want to attack twice. This is from the SAC:
Some threads about the 2024 rules were also commenting on this change and the Loading property. In case they're useful for anyone:
I'm so confused by the fact that this is still confusing people...
Crossbows are special because of the Loading property and the free hand rule. Crossbow Expert removes both. So with that feat, it's like attacking with 2 shortswords: you have as many extra attacks as your class grants you for the hand crossbow in your main hand, and you have 1 attack with the hand crossbow in your off-hand thanks to the Light property. That's it.
It works just like it would with 2 light melee weapons.
Nice summary.
The rules of holding a weapon in each hand states you need a light weapon...
Which is not the same as the extra attack described in the revised Crossbow Expert.
It's the Crossbow Expert giving you an extra attack, not fighting with 2 weapons.
"
"
This text is, IMO, very bad worded, but you can interpret you are holding a [1 handed melee weapon and a hand cross] OR just having [one hand crossbow].
Either way, just by this text, you get an extra shot.
Edit:
This allows even you to have a 1 handed crossbow and shield; and still get the extra shot.
I think that was the intended goal, but they chose a bad wording for the feat giving a better feature.
Not really, you still must abide by the rules of the Hand Crossbow’s Light property:
You could do what you said if you had, for example, the Extra Attack feature.
The revised Crossbow Expert has no extra attack on its own and therefore rely on the extra attack of the Light property.
An exemple of feat specifically granting an extra attack is Dual Wielder feat.
Is this for D&D 2014 or 2024?
The 2024 indeed work this way, but this topic started in 2020, talking about D&D 2014, not 2024.
Yeah, sorry, you're right. My brain is shifting to the 2024 rules.
Indeed, but you're the one who specifically talked about the REVISED Crossbow Expert in post #43 thread necro, so other posters followed up on 2024.
That's where I got confused, TBH.