At your table you're welcome to houserule however you like and add in whatever rules you prefer from previous editions. But this forum is specifically about explaining and understanding the rules as written of 5th Edition Dungeons and Dragons, and the SAC is part of what explains the rules (but isn't the rules itself.)
D&D Beyond is not WotC-sponsored. It also consistently has errors as to what the books say.
It is quite a stretch to suggest that its forums are purely for RAW. And considering Sage Advice has reverse stances on its own rulings, it is unreliable at the least.
A developer explaining what they believe something in their book means doesn't make it the rule. The U.S. Constitution was developed to exclude non-whites and females from citizenship; we accept they got it wrong, not that their way is the correct way lmao.
I was linking to the Rules and Game Mechanics forum. That's the purpose of this particular subforum, not the entirety of DDB's forum.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Helpful rewriter of Japanese->English translation and delver into software codebases (she/e/they)
I'll just point out that Sage Advice must be decided incorrectly or incompetently like so many other rulings it has made (i.e. like their proclaimed ability that a Wizard can Cast Counterspell to stop someone's Counterspell attempt on your Fireball Spell, letting you break their own rule against Casting 2 Slot-costing Spells in the same Turn).
There is no general rule about casting 2 slot-costing spells in the same turn.
The only rule says that if you cast a spell with a BONUS action, then "You can’t cast another spell during the same turn, except for a cantrip with a casting time of 1 action."
Perhaps you can argue that their inadmission on the matter means you can Cast them both; that just shows the next problem that you're Casting 2 Spells *at the same time*.
And further, since Counterspell is a Reaction, you're somehow Reacting *FASTER* than your opponent is...while still Casting Fireball. Now let another enemy Cast Counterspell, and down the line someone is Casting faster than lightspeed.
And Sage Advice fully supports that illogic.
Counterspell has a casting time of 1 Reaction, and its components are purely Somatic - so imagine a single wave of the hand in a manner specific to counterspell.
This (apparently, according to the rules) can easily be performed whilst waving your hands and saying the words and/or presenting various material components during casting of your fireball.
That seemed extremely reasonable. To get rid of that feature makes Magic Items more potent amd reliable, sure. But we've already nerfed Casters by erasing their ability to outdamage Attackers against single Targets, and by making only the most powerful Spells able to kill someone: and even then, only relatively weak Targets.
If you take 5e as a whole, you might notice that monsters don't often benefit from magic items in the first place, so PCs being able to suppress magic items wouldn't really add anything to the game unless you're homebrewing your own enemies.
And if you're doing that, you can just as easily add a clause about how dispel magic affects them. Or give them ways to suppress PC magic items.
All the current ruleset really does is place this functionality firmly in the hands of the DM.
I'll just point out that Sage Advice must be decided incorrectly or incompetently like so many other rulings it has made (i.e. like their proclaimed ability that a Wizard can Cast Counterspell to stop someone's Counterspell attempt on your Fireball Spell, letting you break their own rule against Casting 2 Slot-costing Spells in the same Turn).
There is quite simply no such rule banning the casting of 2 slot-costing spells on the same turn. The rule you are probably thinking of is only relevant if you cast a spell using a bonus action. The SAC entry you're thinking of is accurate.
With their ruling, you can't ever actually use Dispel Magic on an Object; even if a Staff of Magi is used to Cast Hold Monster, you need to Target the Held Creature, as Sage Advice says Targeting the Staff won't actually do anything.
The Staff of the Magi isn't relevant here - you could cast Hold Monster without it, and someone else casting Dispel Magic on you wouldn't do anything at all. Dispel Magic absolutely can target objects, your example is simply a bad one. As an example of it working on an object, you can target a sword that's been targeted with Elemental Weapon and thereby end the spell.
So in effect, Sage Advice as made that part of Dispel Magic worthless, because there's no cases where an Object gains the benefit of a Spell, except Effects or Objects made by Spells or Homebrewed ones. And even then, the Object must be using a Spell, not just granting an effect to the wearer.
This is false. I gave an example above. You can use Dispel Magic to dispel spells on a target object. That's what the spell says it does, and it does do that.
Another 5e Nerf to Spellcasters, who already are a comparatively minor threat to anything but swarms than every Attack-oriented Class.
Patently false. Martials can't hold a candle to spellcasters.
At your table you're welcome to houserule however you like and add in whatever rules you prefer from previous editions. But this forum is specifically about explaining and understanding the rules as written of 5th Edition Dungeons and Dragons, and the SAC is part of what explains the rules (but isn't the rules itself.)
D&D Beyond is not WotC-sponsored. It also consistently has errors as to what the books say.
It is quite a stretch to suggest that its forums are purely for RAW. And considering Sage Advice has reverse stances on its own rulings, it is unreliable at the least.
A developer explaining what they believe something in their book means doesn't make it the rule. The U.S. Constitution was developed to exclude non-whites and females from citizenship; we accept they got it wrong, not that their way is the correct way lmao.
This forum is for the discussion of official rules and games mechanics (ie RAW). If you wish to discuss your own interpretations or executions of the rules, you are free to do so in either Dungeon Masters Only or Homebrew & House Rules
I'll just point out that Sage Advice must be decided incorrectly or incompetently like so many other rulings it has made (i.e. like their proclaimed ability that a Wizard can Cast Counterspell to stop someone's Counterspell attempt on your Fireball Spell, letting you break their own rule against Casting 2 Slot-costing Spells in the same Turn).
There is no general rule about casting 2 slot-costing spells in the same turn.
The only rule says that if you cast a spell with a BONUS action, then "You can’t cast another spell during the same turn, except for a cantrip with a casting time of 1 action."
Perhaps you can argue that their inadmission on the matter means you can Cast them both; that just shows the next problem that you're Casting 2 Spells *at the same time*.
And further, since Counterspell is a Reaction, you're somehow Reacting *FASTER* than your opponent is...while still Casting Fireball. Now let another enemy Cast Counterspell, and down the line someone is Casting faster than lightspeed.
And Sage Advice fully supports that illogic.
I, as a DM, personally agree that the whole casting Counterspell to interrupt someone’s Counterspell is a pretty speedy endeavor, and while still casting fireball too. However, Counterspell is a spell that is supposed to be fired off very quickly, as it is a reaction, so this is completely justified that you could do it. A reaction, as described on page 190 of the Player’s Handbook, is, “an instant response to a trigger of some kind, which can occur on your turn or someone else’s.” And the rules also on specify that you can’t cast a leveled spell as a bonus action and an action, so using your reaction to cast one is perfectly fine.
Technically a magical item is not a mundane item under the effects of a spell, so you can't cast dispel magic.
You can dispel magic on an object that has a spell on it (but there are no permanent spells, they all have duration). In that case, you could end the spell (for example, an illusion).
You also can't use dispel magic to reverse permanent effects. If a spell permanently changes an object, the spell is no longer on the object. It has simply changed it and with that dispel magic can't do anything.
As a general rule, dispel magic only works to finish spells that are in progress. And by spell we mean any spell that is listed as such in the game.
Interestingly enough Dispel Magic only dispels the effects of Spells .. until it doesn't.
Any other effect of Dispel Magic is entirely up to the DM and the writer of the module (including modules produced by Wizards of the Coast).
Examples in the spoiler below of published content allowing Dispel Magic to have a much greater range of capability, which tends to indicate that the rules say one thing in theory but the spell MAY have additional abilities in practice.
"There is a magical fire in Rime of the Frost Maiden, on an alter, and it is impossible to defeat the encounter without putting out this fire. If you can't put out the fire then the only option is to run away since the creatures involved can not be killed until the flame is out. The fire was not created by a spell based on the text, it is a property of a magic item.
"A detect magic spell reveals a powerful aura of abjuration magic around the 3-foot-high stone brazier, which rises naturally from the floor and is therefore not a discrete object. It can't be moved or damaged, and its magical flame can't be smothered or put out with water. Any creature that comes into direct contact with the fire for the first time on a turn takes 10 (3d6) cold damage."
"Casting dispel magic on the fire snuffs it out for 1 hour, after which the fire reignites on its own. Using a stone shape spell to alter the brazier's shape puts out the fire for good."
In this case, the author of RotFM gave Dispel Magic the ability to temporarily Dispel the magic of a permanent magic item that can only be destroyed with the use of Stone Shape.
It made for an interesting encounter when we played it since none of the players considered Dispel Magic as a solution since it only works on spells and that is what the characters also would know. None of the characters involved even had Dispel Magic (let alone Stone Shape) as spell options and the module itself gives no indications of what might be able to disable the effects of this magic item. (With a lot of hinting from the DM and a fortuitously found scroll of Dispel Magic we managed to survive the experience but it reminded the players that Dispel Magic ONLY works on spells ... until it doesn't.
Wizards of the Coast D&D content is FULL of alternate uses for Dispel Magic:
CoS:
"The latch mechanism in each tower is magically activated by a word that only Strahd knows. It can also be activated with a successful casting of dispel magic (DC 14)."
"The brazier's flame is magical and sheds no war'mth. A successful casting of dispel magic (DC 16) extinguishes the flame for 1 hour. "
"Although the traps can't be disarmed, a successful casting of dispel magic (DC 16) on a trap suppresses its magic for 1 minute, allowing characters to move safely through its area"
"A successful casting of dispel magic (DC 16) suppresses the curtain for 1 minute. The curtain is also suppressed within an antimagic field."
"If targeted by dispel magic, the hut must succeed on a Constitution saving throw against the caster's spell save DC or fall unconscious for 1 minute."
ToA:
"A dispel magic spell destroys th e mist in a 20-foot square starting at a point chosen by the caster within the spell's range"
"Casting dispel magic on the floor tiles disables the trap for 1 hour."
"Once a tile has bestowed this benefit, it loses its magic until the next dawn. Casting dispel magic on a tile has the same effect."
"A successful dispel magic (DC 17) cast on the statue shuts down the attractive field for 1 hour"
"A successful dispel magic (DC 17) cast on the curtain causes it to vanish, leaving the archway open. The curtain magically reappears after 1 hour."
"Casting dispel magic on the font causes the illusory soup to vanish, but the treasure does not appear. The illusory soup reappears 1 minute later."
RAW - Dispel Magic ONLY works on spells. In practice, Dispel Magic only works on spells ... until it doesn't and any other application of Dispel Magic is at the discretion of the DM or content creator. However, it would be nice if that proviso was included with the spell description.
Interestingly enough Dispel Magic only dispels the effects of Spells .. until it doesn't.
Any other effect of Dispel Magic is entirely up to the DM and the writer of the module (including modules produced by Wizards of the Coast).
Examples in the spoiler below of published content allowing Dispel Magic to have a much greater range of capability, which tends to indicate that the rules say one thing in theory but the spell MAY have additional abilities in practice.
"There is a magical fire in Rime of the Frost Maiden, on an alter, and it is impossible to defeat the encounter without putting out this fire. If you can't put out the fire then the only option is to run away since the creatures involved can not be killed until the flame is out. The fire was not created by a spell based on the text, it is a property of a magic item.
"A detect magic spell reveals a powerful aura of abjuration magic around the 3-foot-high stone brazier, which rises naturally from the floor and is therefore not a discrete object. It can't be moved or damaged, and its magical flame can't be smothered or put out with water. Any creature that comes into direct contact with the fire for the first time on a turn takes 10 (3d6) cold damage."
"Casting dispel magic on the fire snuffs it out for 1 hour, after which the fire reignites on its own. Using a stone shape spell to alter the brazier's shape puts out the fire for good."
In this case, the author of RotFM gave Dispel Magic the ability to temporarily Dispel the magic of a permanent magic item that can only be destroyed with the use of Stone Shape.
It made for an interesting encounter when we played it since none of the players considered Dispel Magic as a solution since it only works on spells and that is what the characters also would know. None of the characters involved even had Dispel Magic (let alone Stone Shape) as spell options and the module itself gives no indications of what might be able to disable the effects of this magic item. (With a lot of hinting from the DM and a fortuitously found scroll of Dispel Magic we managed to survive the experience but it reminded the players that Dispel Magic ONLY works on spells ... until it doesn't.
Wizards of the Coast D&D content is FULL of alternate uses for Dispel Magic:
CoS:
"The latch mechanism in each tower is magically activated by a word that only Strahd knows. It can also be activated with a successful casting of dispel magic (DC 14)."
"The brazier's flame is magical and sheds no war'mth. A successful casting of dispel magic (DC 16) extinguishes the flame for 1 hour. "
"Although the traps can't be disarmed, a successful casting of dispel magic (DC 16) on a trap suppresses its magic for 1 minute, allowing characters to move safely through its area"
"A successful casting of dispel magic (DC 16) suppresses the curtain for 1 minute. The curtain is also suppressed within an antimagic field."
"If targeted by dispel magic, the hut must succeed on a Constitution saving throw against the caster's spell save DC or fall unconscious for 1 minute."
ToA:
"A dispel magic spell destroys th e mist in a 20-foot square starting at a point chosen by the caster within the spell's range"
"Casting dispel magic on the floor tiles disables the trap for 1 hour."
"Once a tile has bestowed this benefit, it loses its magic until the next dawn. Casting dispel magic on a tile has the same effect."
"A successful dispel magic (DC 17) cast on the statue shuts down the attractive field for 1 hour"
"A successful dispel magic (DC 17) cast on the curtain causes it to vanish, leaving the archway open. The curtain magically reappears after 1 hour."
"Casting dispel magic on the font causes the illusory soup to vanish, but the treasure does not appear. The illusory soup reappears 1 minute later."
RAW - Dispel Magic ONLY works on spells. In practice, Dispel Magic only works on spells ... until it doesn't and any other application of Dispel Magic is at the discretion of the DM or content creator. However, it would be nice if that proviso was included with the spell description.
Some of these appear to be replicating the effects of spells without naming them, but the obvious solution here is for the DM to provide a hint to the players about the nature of the dispel-able effect, possibly by describing it as "under the effect of an unknown spell" (with an appropriate Ability check, of course), which would prompt the potential use of dispel magic to dispel the unknown spell effect.
This is entirely my DM-sense, but if spells are discernable to PCs in other situations, then they should be discernable in these...the DM just has to assist them with making that leap since they aren't necessarily printed spells.
Interestingly enough Dispel Magic only dispels the effects of Spells .. until it doesn't.
Any other effect of Dispel Magic is entirely up to the DM and the writer of the module (including modules produced by Wizards of the Coast).
Examples in the spoiler below of published content allowing Dispel Magic to have a much greater range of capability, which tends to indicate that the rules say one thing in theory but the spell MAY have additional abilities in practice.
"There is a magical fire in Rime of the Frost Maiden, on an alter, and it is impossible to defeat the encounter without putting out this fire. If you can't put out the fire then the only option is to run away since the creatures involved can not be killed until the flame is out. The fire was not created by a spell based on the text, it is a property of a magic item.
"A detect magic spell reveals a powerful aura of abjuration magic around the 3-foot-high stone brazier, which rises naturally from the floor and is therefore not a discrete object. It can't be moved or damaged, and its magical flame can't be smothered or put out with water. Any creature that comes into direct contact with the fire for the first time on a turn takes 10 (3d6) cold damage."
"Casting dispel magic on the fire snuffs it out for 1 hour, after which the fire reignites on its own. Using a stone shape spell to alter the brazier's shape puts out the fire for good."
In this case, the author of RotFM gave Dispel Magic the ability to temporarily Dispel the magic of a permanent magic item that can only be destroyed with the use of Stone Shape.
It made for an interesting encounter when we played it since none of the players considered Dispel Magic as a solution since it only works on spells and that is what the characters also would know. None of the characters involved even had Dispel Magic (let alone Stone Shape) as spell options and the module itself gives no indications of what might be able to disable the effects of this magic item. (With a lot of hinting from the DM and a fortuitously found scroll of Dispel Magic we managed to survive the experience but it reminded the players that Dispel Magic ONLY works on spells ... until it doesn't.
Wizards of the Coast D&D content is FULL of alternate uses for Dispel Magic:
CoS:
"The latch mechanism in each tower is magically activated by a word that only Strahd knows. It can also be activated with a successful casting of dispel magic (DC 14)."
"The brazier's flame is magical and sheds no war'mth. A successful casting of dispel magic (DC 16) extinguishes the flame for 1 hour. "
"Although the traps can't be disarmed, a successful casting of dispel magic (DC 16) on a trap suppresses its magic for 1 minute, allowing characters to move safely through its area"
"A successful casting of dispel magic (DC 16) suppresses the curtain for 1 minute. The curtain is also suppressed within an antimagic field."
"If targeted by dispel magic, the hut must succeed on a Constitution saving throw against the caster's spell save DC or fall unconscious for 1 minute."
ToA:
"A dispel magic spell destroys th e mist in a 20-foot square starting at a point chosen by the caster within the spell's range"
"Casting dispel magic on the floor tiles disables the trap for 1 hour."
"Once a tile has bestowed this benefit, it loses its magic until the next dawn. Casting dispel magic on a tile has the same effect."
"A successful dispel magic (DC 17) cast on the statue shuts down the attractive field for 1 hour"
"A successful dispel magic (DC 17) cast on the curtain causes it to vanish, leaving the archway open. The curtain magically reappears after 1 hour."
"Casting dispel magic on the font causes the illusory soup to vanish, but the treasure does not appear. The illusory soup reappears 1 minute later."
RAW - Dispel Magic ONLY works on spells. In practice, Dispel Magic only works on spells ... until it doesn't and any other application of Dispel Magic is at the discretion of the DM or content creator. However, it would be nice if that proviso was included with the spell description.
Some of these appear to be replicating the effects of spells without naming them, but the obvious solution here is for the DM to provide a hint to the players about the nature of the dispel-able effect, possibly by describing it as "under the effect of an unknown spell" (with an appropriate Ability check, of course), which would prompt the potential use of dispel magic to dispel the unknown spell effect.
This is entirely my DM-sense, but if spells are discernable to PCs in other situations, then they should be discernable in these...the DM just has to assist them with making that leap since they aren't necessarily printed spells.
All of the examples I cited reactivate after a delay ranging between 1 minute, 1 hour or 24 hours so although they may be similar to spell effects, they aren't because they are permanent magical effects that are temporarily dispelled which is not a feature or capability mentioned in the text of dispel magic.
In actual practice, I agree with you, the DM should give some sort of hint that the permanent magic item in these cases can be temporarily disrupted by Dispel Magic even though the effect is not a spell and the effect will come back after some time. The DM should offer some indication to the players/caster that the effect of the Dispel Magic may not be permanent perhaps by indicating that the item still detects as magical even though it is not functioning at the moment.
P.S. As far as noticing whether there is a magical effect or that something is magical, the PHB says "Unless a spell has a perceptible effect, a creature might not know it was targeted by a spell at all." ... so a spell cast on an object will not be noticeable unless it has a perceptible effect. For example, RAW, unless you have Detect Magic, a character would never know that Magic Mouth has been cast on an object unless the condition to trigger the effect is activated. There is nothing perceptible about magic by itself otherwise a character would notice they were under the effect of a spell whether it was perceptible or not. So, in general, spells are not perceptible to PCs although a DM could choose to describe an object as having an odd feeling or looking particularly well made but that is DM license not a rule.
Interestingly enough Dispel Magic only dispels the effects of Spells .. until it doesn't.
Any other effect of Dispel Magic is entirely up to the DM and the writer of the module (including modules produced by Wizards of the Coast).
Examples in the spoiler below of published content allowing Dispel Magic to have a much greater range of capability, which tends to indicate that the rules say one thing in theory but the spell MAY have additional abilities in practice.
"There is a magical fire in Rime of the Frost Maiden, on an alter, and it is impossible to defeat the encounter without putting out this fire. If you can't put out the fire then the only option is to run away since the creatures involved can not be killed until the flame is out. The fire was not created by a spell based on the text, it is a property of a magic item.
"A detect magic spell reveals a powerful aura of abjuration magic around the 3-foot-high stone brazier, which rises naturally from the floor and is therefore not a discrete object. It can't be moved or damaged, and its magical flame can't be smothered or put out with water. Any creature that comes into direct contact with the fire for the first time on a turn takes 10 (3d6) cold damage."
"Casting dispel magic on the fire snuffs it out for 1 hour, after which the fire reignites on its own. Using a stone shape spell to alter the brazier's shape puts out the fire for good."
In this case, the author of RotFM gave Dispel Magic the ability to temporarily Dispel the magic of a permanent magic item that can only be destroyed with the use of Stone Shape.
It made for an interesting encounter when we played it since none of the players considered Dispel Magic as a solution since it only works on spells and that is what the characters also would know. None of the characters involved even had Dispel Magic (let alone Stone Shape) as spell options and the module itself gives no indications of what might be able to disable the effects of this magic item. (With a lot of hinting from the DM and a fortuitously found scroll of Dispel Magic we managed to survive the experience but it reminded the players that Dispel Magic ONLY works on spells ... until it doesn't.
Wizards of the Coast D&D content is FULL of alternate uses for Dispel Magic:
CoS:
"The latch mechanism in each tower is magically activated by a word that only Strahd knows. It can also be activated with a successful casting of dispel magic (DC 14)."
"The brazier's flame is magical and sheds no war'mth. A successful casting of dispel magic (DC 16) extinguishes the flame for 1 hour. "
"Although the traps can't be disarmed, a successful casting of dispel magic (DC 16) on a trap suppresses its magic for 1 minute, allowing characters to move safely through its area"
"A successful casting of dispel magic (DC 16) suppresses the curtain for 1 minute. The curtain is also suppressed within an antimagic field."
"If targeted by dispel magic, the hut must succeed on a Constitution saving throw against the caster's spell save DC or fall unconscious for 1 minute."
ToA:
"A dispel magic spell destroys th e mist in a 20-foot square starting at a point chosen by the caster within the spell's range"
"Casting dispel magic on the floor tiles disables the trap for 1 hour."
"Once a tile has bestowed this benefit, it loses its magic until the next dawn. Casting dispel magic on a tile has the same effect."
"A successful dispel magic (DC 17) cast on the statue shuts down the attractive field for 1 hour"
"A successful dispel magic (DC 17) cast on the curtain causes it to vanish, leaving the archway open. The curtain magically reappears after 1 hour."
"Casting dispel magic on the font causes the illusory soup to vanish, but the treasure does not appear. The illusory soup reappears 1 minute later."
RAW - Dispel Magic ONLY works on spells. In practice, Dispel Magic only works on spells ... until it doesn't and any other application of Dispel Magic is at the discretion of the DM or content creator. However, it would be nice if that proviso was included with the spell description.
Some of these appear to be replicating the effects of spells without naming them, but the obvious solution here is for the DM to provide a hint to the players about the nature of the dispel-able effect, possibly by describing it as "under the effect of an unknown spell" (with an appropriate Ability check, of course), which would prompt the potential use of dispel magic to dispel the unknown spell effect.
This is entirely my DM-sense, but if spells are discernable to PCs in other situations, then they should be discernable in these...the DM just has to assist them with making that leap since they aren't necessarily printed spells.
All of the examples I cited reactivate after a delay ranging between 1 minute, 1 hour or 24 hours so although they may be similar to spell effects, they aren't because they are permanent magical effects that are temporarily dispelled which is not a feature or capability mentioned in the text of dispel magic.
In actual practice, I agree with you, the DM should give some sort of hint that the permanent magic item in these cases can be temporarily disrupted by Dispel Magic even though the effect is not a spell and the effect will come back after some time. The DM should offer some indication to the players/caster that the effect of the Dispel Magic may not be permanent perhaps by indicating that the item still detects as magical even though it is not functioning at the moment.
P.S. As far as noticing whether there is a magical effect or that something is magical, the PHB says "Unless a spell has a perceptible effect, a creature might not know it was targeted by a spell at all." ... so a spell cast on an object will not be noticeable unless it has a perceptible effect. For example, RAW, unless you have Detect Magic, a character would never know that Magic Mouth has been cast on an object unless the condition to trigger the effect is activated. There is nothing perceptible about magic by itself otherwise a character would notice they were under the effect of a spell whether it was perceptible or not. So, in general, spells are not perceptible to PCs although a DM could choose to describe an object as having an odd feeling or looking particularly well made but that is DM license not a rule.
I understand this, but in most of the cases you mentioned, the effect is perceptible, or has a mechanism to be detected that is common enough knowledge for players to use unprompted. (detect magic, perception checks to notice the trap, etc). I would absolutely not just give the players the knowledge of it being "spell-based" enough to be affected by Dispel Magic without some activity on their part (said uses of detect magic/perception/investigation/etc), but if they were doing the right things to find that out (using perception /investigation checks, using detect magic, etc) then I would disclose that fact as part of their investigations.
I was linking to the Rules and Game Mechanics forum. That's the purpose of this particular subforum, not the entirety of DDB's forum.
Helpful rewriter of Japanese->English translation and delver into software codebases (she/e/they)
Counterspell has a casting time of 1 Reaction, and its components are purely Somatic - so imagine a single wave of the hand in a manner specific to counterspell.
This (apparently, according to the rules) can easily be performed whilst waving your hands and saying the words and/or presenting various material components during casting of your fireball.
If you take 5e as a whole, you might notice that monsters don't often benefit from magic items in the first place, so PCs being able to suppress magic items wouldn't really add anything to the game unless you're homebrewing your own enemies.
And if you're doing that, you can just as easily add a clause about how dispel magic affects them. Or give them ways to suppress PC magic items.
All the current ruleset really does is place this functionality firmly in the hands of the DM.
My homebrew subclasses (full list here)
(Artificer) Swordmage | Glasswright | (Barbarian) Path of the Savage Embrace
(Bard) College of Dance | (Fighter) Warlord | Cannoneer
(Monk) Way of the Elements | (Ranger) Blade Dancer
(Rogue) DaggerMaster | Inquisitor | (Sorcerer) Riftwalker | Spellfist
(Warlock) The Swarm
There is quite simply no such rule banning the casting of 2 slot-costing spells on the same turn. The rule you are probably thinking of is only relevant if you cast a spell using a bonus action. The SAC entry you're thinking of is accurate.
The Staff of the Magi isn't relevant here - you could cast Hold Monster without it, and someone else casting Dispel Magic on you wouldn't do anything at all. Dispel Magic absolutely can target objects, your example is simply a bad one. As an example of it working on an object, you can target a sword that's been targeted with Elemental Weapon and thereby end the spell.
This is false. I gave an example above. You can use Dispel Magic to dispel spells on a target object. That's what the spell says it does, and it does do that.
Patently false. Martials can't hold a candle to spellcasters.
Oh yes there are.
For example (from my game a few sessions ago), heat metal cast on the wizard's plate armour (yes, wizard, its a long story).
Other spells on an item you might want to dispel are magic weapon, darkess, light, faerie fire.
This forum is for the discussion of official rules and games mechanics (ie RAW). If you wish to discuss your own interpretations or executions of the rules, you are free to do so in either Dungeon Masters Only or Homebrew & House Rules
Find my D&D Beyond articles here
I, as a DM, personally agree that the whole casting Counterspell to interrupt someone’s Counterspell is a pretty speedy endeavor, and while still casting fireball too. However, Counterspell is a spell that is supposed to be fired off very quickly, as it is a reaction, so this is completely justified that you could do it. A reaction, as described on page 190 of the Player’s Handbook, is, “an instant response to a trigger of some kind, which can occur on your turn or someone else’s.” And the rules also on specify that you can’t cast a leveled spell as a bonus action and an action, so using your reaction to cast one is perfectly fine.
First off magic items are under a permanency spell by default attempts to dispel such a. Item while up to the dm should be negated by this
There is no “permanency spell“ in 5e.
Technically a magical item is not a mundane item under the effects of a spell, so you can't cast dispel magic.
You can dispel magic on an object that has a spell on it (but there are no permanent spells, they all have duration). In that case, you could end the spell (for example, an illusion).
You also can't use dispel magic to reverse permanent effects. If a spell permanently changes an object, the spell is no longer on the object. It has simply changed it and with that dispel magic can't do anything.
As a general rule, dispel magic only works to finish spells that are in progress. And by spell we mean any spell that is listed as such in the game.
Funny enough, the closest thing 5e has to a duration of permanent is called "until dispelled"
also,
"Not all those who wander are lost"
Interestingly enough Dispel Magic only dispels the effects of Spells .. until it doesn't.
Any other effect of Dispel Magic is entirely up to the DM and the writer of the module (including modules produced by Wizards of the Coast).
Examples in the spoiler below of published content allowing Dispel Magic to have a much greater range of capability, which tends to indicate that the rules say one thing in theory but the spell MAY have additional abilities in practice.
"There is a magical fire in Rime of the Frost Maiden, on an alter, and it is impossible to defeat the encounter without putting out this fire. If you can't put out the fire then the only option is to run away since the creatures involved can not be killed until the flame is out. The fire was not created by a spell based on the text, it is a property of a magic item.
"A detect magic spell reveals a powerful aura of abjuration magic around the 3-foot-high stone brazier, which rises naturally from the floor and is therefore not a discrete object. It can't be moved or damaged, and its magical flame can't be smothered or put out with water. Any creature that comes into direct contact with the fire for the first time on a turn takes 10 (3d6) cold damage."
"Casting dispel magic on the fire snuffs it out for 1 hour, after which the fire reignites on its own. Using a stone shape spell to alter the brazier's shape puts out the fire for good."
In this case, the author of RotFM gave Dispel Magic the ability to temporarily Dispel the magic of a permanent magic item that can only be destroyed with the use of Stone Shape.
It made for an interesting encounter when we played it since none of the players considered Dispel Magic as a solution since it only works on spells and that is what the characters also would know. None of the characters involved even had Dispel Magic (let alone Stone Shape) as spell options and the module itself gives no indications of what might be able to disable the effects of this magic item. (With a lot of hinting from the DM and a fortuitously found scroll of Dispel Magic we managed to survive the experience but it reminded the players that Dispel Magic ONLY works on spells ... until it doesn't.
Wizards of the Coast D&D content is FULL of alternate uses for Dispel Magic:
CoS:
"The latch mechanism in each tower is magically activated by a word that only Strahd knows. It can also be activated with a successful casting of dispel magic (DC 14)."
"The brazier's flame is magical and sheds no war'mth. A successful casting of dispel magic (DC 16) extinguishes the flame for 1 hour. "
"Although the traps can't be disarmed, a successful casting of dispel magic (DC 16) on a trap suppresses its magic for 1 minute, allowing characters to move safely through its area"
"A successful casting of dispel magic (DC 16) suppresses the curtain for 1 minute. The curtain is also suppressed within an antimagic field."
"If targeted by dispel magic, the hut must succeed on a Constitution saving throw against the caster's spell save DC or fall unconscious for 1 minute."
ToA:
"A dispel magic spell destroys th e mist in a 20-foot square starting at a point chosen by the caster within the spell's range"
"Casting dispel magic on the floor tiles disables the trap for 1 hour."
"Once a tile has bestowed this benefit, it loses its magic until the next dawn. Casting dispel magic on a tile has the same effect."
"A successful dispel magic (DC 17) cast on the statue shuts down the attractive field for 1 hour"
"A successful dispel magic (DC 17) cast on the curtain causes it to vanish, leaving the archway open. The curtain magically reappears after 1 hour."
"Casting dispel magic on the font causes the illusory soup to vanish, but the treasure does not appear. The illusory soup reappears 1 minute later."
RAW - Dispel Magic ONLY works on spells. In practice, Dispel Magic only works on spells ... until it doesn't and any other application of Dispel Magic is at the discretion of the DM or content creator. However, it would be nice if that proviso was included with the spell description.
Some of these appear to be replicating the effects of spells without naming them, but the obvious solution here is for the DM to provide a hint to the players about the nature of the dispel-able effect, possibly by describing it as "under the effect of an unknown spell" (with an appropriate Ability check, of course), which would prompt the potential use of dispel magic to dispel the unknown spell effect.
This is entirely my DM-sense, but if spells are discernable to PCs in other situations, then they should be discernable in these...the DM just has to assist them with making that leap since they aren't necessarily printed spells.
All of the examples I cited reactivate after a delay ranging between 1 minute, 1 hour or 24 hours so although they may be similar to spell effects, they aren't because they are permanent magical effects that are temporarily dispelled which is not a feature or capability mentioned in the text of dispel magic.
In actual practice, I agree with you, the DM should give some sort of hint that the permanent magic item in these cases can be temporarily disrupted by Dispel Magic even though the effect is not a spell and the effect will come back after some time. The DM should offer some indication to the players/caster that the effect of the Dispel Magic may not be permanent perhaps by indicating that the item still detects as magical even though it is not functioning at the moment.
P.S. As far as noticing whether there is a magical effect or that something is magical, the PHB says "Unless a spell has a perceptible effect, a creature might not know it was targeted by a spell at all." ... so a spell cast on an object will not be noticeable unless it has a perceptible effect. For example, RAW, unless you have Detect Magic, a character would never know that Magic Mouth has been cast on an object unless the condition to trigger the effect is activated. There is nothing perceptible about magic by itself otherwise a character would notice they were under the effect of a spell whether it was perceptible or not. So, in general, spells are not perceptible to PCs although a DM could choose to describe an object as having an odd feeling or looking particularly well made but that is DM license not a rule.
I understand this, but in most of the cases you mentioned, the effect is perceptible, or has a mechanism to be detected that is common enough knowledge for players to use unprompted. (detect magic, perception checks to notice the trap, etc). I would absolutely not just give the players the knowledge of it being "spell-based" enough to be affected by Dispel Magic without some activity on their part (said uses of detect magic/perception/investigation/etc), but if they were doing the right things to find that out (using perception /investigation checks, using detect magic, etc) then I would disclose that fact as part of their investigations.
False read the spell.