OK im very invested in creating an artificer/druid that that uses technology and biology to self buff and "change the world". I imagine something similar to the simic conclave com Ravnica, a Bio scientist.
After studying the armorer class i found 2 things that seem very interesting.
This ability from the infiltrator power armor. Second Skin. The armor’s weight is negligible, and it becomes formfitting and wearable under clothing. If the armor normally imposes disadvantage on Dexterity (Stealth) checks, the power armor doesn’t.
Since this is a "magical" set of armor, could formfitting mean that the armor would change to fit the druid in wild shape?
Then i found that only heavy armors can be Power armor, but looking at my options i found this: " Ring Mail: This armor is Leather Armor with heavy rings sewn into it. The rings help reinforce the armor against blows from Swords and axes. Ring Mail is inferior to Chain Mail, and it's usually worn only by those who can’t afford better armor."
So the metal restriction from druid can be acomplished and he can use the lesser heavy armor to get all other artificer (armorer) abilities.
So It seems that a druid can use heavy armor, and by doing so, become eligible to be also an armorer.
Would you agree with formfitting alowing this? And how exacly would a Wildshaped in magical heavy armor druid play in your opinion?
Your DM, of course, may rule otherwise, but I’d say form fitting doesn’t work the way you want it to. Wildshape specifically says “Your equipment doesn’t change size or shape to match the new form” so your form fitting armor would still be fitted to the form of whatever your base race is. It being magical or not has nothing to do with the restrictions built into the ability, if that mattered, it would say so.
As far as heavy armor, which is really a different question, ring mail is really iffy. There’s a lot of metal in it. Again, that’s going to be a DM ruling, combined with how your character interprets the taboo against metal armor. You can still wear heavy armor, just think off the standard equipment list. Plate made from a bulette hide, or something, if your DM goes for it.
However, assuming default construction materials, ringmail is absolutely made of metal, and thus druids will not wear it. If you want heavy armor that druids will use, talk to your DM about getting some made out of a more exotic material. Eberron has "bronzewood," which is exactly what it sounds like and can be used for medium and heavy armor. I'm sure Ravnica has something similar. Get creative with it.
Form fitting doesn’t mean shape shifting. It means you made it so it’s skin tight. You had to Use smith’s tools and make it into infiltrator armor at the end of a rest. You can’t expect something designed to be skin tight on an elf to just fit a bear. Also it’s not a traditional magic item. It doesn’t persist after you die like it would if you’d made +1 hide armor or something. No one else in the party could wear it, even if they had your exact measurements. Now, if you made it so it would properly fit a wildshape form (only one form), that could maybe work, but then it wouldn’t work in your standard shape.
Strange, the description in the PHB say they are leather armor. So we just ignore th PHB description when convenient then? haha
"Ring Mail: This armor is leather armor with heavy rings sewn into it. The rings help reinforce the armor against blows from swords and axes. Ring mail is inferior to chain mail, and it's usually worn only by those who can't afford better armor."
Personaly as a Dm i would alow the formfitting to mean exacly what it mean. "the armor always fitts you". i imagine a armor with bands, rubber, adjustments and so on to always be a perfect fit. Most magical armors Like this one, can change its size to fit another humanoid. A magical armor made for humans, woud fit a halfling that is one size smaller. The ability formfitting means absolutely nothing if you remove the ability of the armor to change its shape to alow for other "forms". why would the designers include this paragraph if all it does is say "the armor fits your body", well duh, all armor will aways fit my body... why the hell bring it up then? ( if it the way some of you say so, then that paragraph is just wasted and means absolutely nothing.)
You’re ignoring the part that makes it ring mail: “with heavy rings sewn into it.” If you take the metal out, it is just leather armor, with an AC of 11 + Dex mod.
You realize chainmail and plate armor also have cloth or leather underneath, right?
This is not like most magical armor. Most magical armor, if you wanted to make it, would require extended downtime and crafting with exotic materials. This is something you make easily with a class ability. It is only magic for you. This is tailored to the wearer/creator and only, ever the wearer. If you are a human and take it off, and hand it to a halfling, it will not resize to fit the halfling. It will actually cease being power armor since you took it off
Form fitting clothing does not change its shape, it just fits you really tight. Far from being useless, the last paragraph of The description lists things It can do other than changing its shape, such as being able to wear it under clothes, or be heavy and not give stealth disadvantage. Again, if it could change its shape, it would say so. And if your argument is that it should change shape because it's magic, then that would apply to any magic armor a druid is wearing, which is certainly not the case.
Saga was suggesting other options for the ring mail. The rings are metal, but there can be a way around it by finding exotic, non metal components to replace the metal rings. Again, talk to your DM about the idea and you can make non metal heavy armor. Scale from dragon scales is probably the most common example, but there are other options.
Worn equipment functions as normal, but the DM decides whether it is practical for the new form to wear a piece of equipment, based on the creature’s shape and size. Your equipment doesn’t change size or shape to match the new form, and any equipment that the new form can’t wear must either fall to the ground or merge with it. Equipment that merges with the form has no effect until you leave the form.
As mentioned above and promptly ignored, these are the Wild Shape rules. They are pretty specific and definitely override "formfitting" which is a vague descriptive term and probably not meant to have any mechanical effect other than fitting underneath clothes. If you've ever had "formfitting" jeans or similar clothes and then gained a bit of weight, you wouldn't argue a bear could fit into this armor. Formfitting does not mean spandex. Since it's made to so closely fit your human form, it's even less likely to fit than regular armor if you shape change into something vaguely humanoid because it doesn't change at all (because that's what WS specifically says) to match your new form.
It doesn't say "nonmagical equipment" or "unless the equipment can change to fit your form," it just says nope.
And there are pretty strong reasons they worded it like that. A bear in power armor, while awesome, is not at all in line with the expected power level of Wild Shape. Terrible AC is the intended primary weakness of WS. High AC would likely triple the effective HP on a feature that's already quite strong.
Worn equipment functions as normal, but the DM decides whether it is practical for the new form to wear a piece of equipment, based on the creature’s shape and size. Your equipment doesn’t change size or shape to match the new form, and any equipment that the new form can’t wear must either fall to the ground or merge with it. Equipment that merges with the form has no effect until you leave the form.
As mentioned above and promptly ignored, these are the Wild Shape rules. They are pretty specific and definitely override "formfitting" which is a vague descriptive term and probably not meant to have any mechanical effect other than fitting underneath clothes. If you've ever had "formfitting" jeans or similar clothes and then gained a bit of weight, you wouldn't argue a bear could fit into this armor. Formfitting does not mean spandex. Since it's made to so closely fit your human form, it's even less likely to fit than regular armor if you shape change into something vaguely humanoid because it doesn't change at all (because that's what WS specifically says) to match your new form.
It doesn't say "nonmagical equipment" or "unless the equipment can change to fit your form," it just says nope.
And there are pretty strong reasons they worded it like that. A bear in power armor, while awesome, is not at all in line with the expected power level of Wild Shape. Terrible AC is the intended primary weakness of WS. High AC would likely triple the effective HP on a feature that's already quite strong.
No, Wild Shape's general rules about equipment do not override specific equipment's features. Specific beats general. That's a fundamental pillar of rules interactions in D&D.
If someone wants to argue that formfitting doesn't mean formfitting, that's really not a conversation I'm at all interested in having, don't @ me, etc. But "specific beats general" is an easy one. Wild Shape doesn't need to say "unless the equipment can change to fit your form," because that's already baked into the fundamental rules of D&D.
No problem with Ring Mail being useable by a druid, but Form fitting does not mean shape changing.
To get armor that changes shape with a druid you need specific capability to do that.
The problem is you misunderstand what is going on. Formfitting is the GENERAL rule, Wild Shape is the SPECIFIC rule. It is specific to JUST the Druid Wildshape. Form Fitting applies to any kind of body, any kind of armor, any kind of class.
And Form fitting does NOT mean what you think it means. It does not change shape, it just is very tight. You are basically thinking that something that can 'shrink' can someone also change size to therefore let you be a Tiger form. Shrink != shape changing.
I have purchased form fitting clothing. There is no way my dog could fit in it.
No problem with Ring Mail being useable by a druid, but Form fitting does not mean shape changing.
To get armor that changes shape with a druid you need specific capability to do that.
The problem is you misunderstand what is going on. Formfitting is the GENERAL rule, Wild Shape is the SPECIFIC rule. It is specific to JUST the Druid Wildshape. Form Fitting applies to any kind of body, any kind of armor, any kind of class.
And Form fitting does NOT mean what you think it means. It does not change shape, it just is very tight. You are basically thinking that something that can 'shrink' can someone also change size to therefore let you be a Tiger form. Shrink != shape changing.
I have purchased form fitting clothing. There is no way my dog could fit in it.
Again, not interested in discussing "formfitting."
But the line in Wild Shape is a general rule about all equipment. If a specific piece of equipment has a rule particular to it that contradicts Wild Shape, the specific equipment's rule is the one that applies. There's no rational way to argue that "rule that applies to all equipment" is more specific than "rule that applies to this specific equipment."
Again, let me explain this, as you have REALLY twisted the rule. You basically have no idea what the words specific and general mean. Part of the problem is that you are confusing specific as a yes/no thing. The rule about Wild Shape is specific to Wild Shape. Rules about finesse are specific to finesse. The quesion is always what is the the specific QUESTION, and the thing most specific to the question is what matters.
The armor rule never mentions size changing at all. It is a general rule about the armor, which is not relevant.
Druid is a rule about armor worn while wild-shaping. It is not a general rule about armor and shape changing, it is as specific as it can get to the single form of shape changing called Wild shaping and also to any armor worn by it. The 'any armor' bit does NOT make it general, unless something already is specifically talking about Wild Shape.
The Power Armor rule is not specific. It does not mention changing shape in any form, let alone wildshaping. It applies to the armor fitting UNDER clothing, which is what it clearly specifies. It does not even mention having the ability to fit larger or smaller creatures. Yes it only applies to power armor because it is about Power Armor. That's the WRONG specificity - just as Finesse rule is specific but does not apply The specific is applying to wildshape, as THAT is the question we are discussing. Wildshaping is the most important thing, your attempt to twist words about Power Armor are tangential at best to the question.
Here, let me demonstrate with something similar.
You have a Gem of Enlarge in your pocket that states while you are attuned to the ring you are increases your size by one category. Next round you are polymorphed into a a dog, so now your size is small. But you claim "Enlarge specifically increased my size by one category, aren't I larger? NO. Wild shape specifically states " Equipment that merges with the form has no effect until you leave the form." The Gem is not worn, so dose not function.
The fact that the Gem specifically stares you get a size increase while attuned does not matter.
The specific case in question is WILD SHAPE. Things specific to Wild Shape rule. Things specific to anything else counts as General rule. Being specific to anything else makes it general. That counts for a Gem of Enlarge or any form fitting armor.
To counter the rule about Wildshape not working with armor, the armor must SPECIFY Wild shapeing. Even talking about shape changing in general does not count, because of the wording under Druid.
That is the specific that matters.
You want to house rule to make this armor super powerful? Go ahead. But that is what you are doing. Also house ruling very dramatically and as far as I can see just because you want it.
wow, this got much more responses than i would expect! thank you all for your opninions. Tho sad, it can at least help me see that most DMs would not alow it, or understand that way. And there it goes my hopes of playing a power armored bear with enlarge cast on it to fight like a megazord. haha
And again thanks to you all. Specialy for @Sagatympana, i do agree with you that formfitting could work like this, but in the end, unless we can get a response from the designers on the INTENT, what they really meant by using formfitting, is up to each and every DM to alow or not.
Strange, the description in the PHB say they are leather armor. So we just ignore th PHB description when convenient then? haha
"Ring Mail: This armor is leather armor with heavy rings sewn into it. The rings help reinforce the armor against blows from swords and axes. Ring mail is inferior to chain mail, and it's usually worn only by those who can't afford better armor."
Personaly as a Dm i would alow the formfitting to mean exacly what it mean. "the armor always fitts you". i imagine a armor with bands, rubber, adjustments and so on to always be a perfect fit. Most magical armors Like this one, can change its size to fit another humanoid. A magical armor made for humans, woud fit a halfling that is one size smaller. The ability formfitting means absolutely nothing if you remove the ability of the armor to change its shape to alow for other "forms". why would the designers include this paragraph if all it does is say "the armor fits your body", well duh, all armor will aways fit my body... why the hell bring it up then? ( if it the way some of you say so, then that paragraph is just wasted and means absolutely nothing.)
Thanks for your opinions tho.
In addition, no where in the description of ring mail does it say the rings are made of metal. In my opinion the rings wan be bone, stone, hard wood, etc. They don't have to be metal.
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Strange, the description in the PHB say they are leather armor. So we just ignore th PHB description when convenient then? haha
"Ring Mail: This armor is leather armor with heavy rings sewn into it. The rings help reinforce the armor against blows from swords and axes. Ring mail is inferior to chain mail, and it's usually worn only by those who can't afford better armor."
Personaly as a Dm i would alow the formfitting to mean exacly what it mean. "the armor always fitts you". i imagine a armor with bands, rubber, adjustments and so on to always be a perfect fit. Most magical armors Like this one, can change its size to fit another humanoid. A magical armor made for humans, woud fit a halfling that is one size smaller. The ability formfitting means absolutely nothing if you remove the ability of the armor to change its shape to alow for other "forms". why would the designers include this paragraph if all it does is say "the armor fits your body", well duh, all armor will aways fit my body... why the hell bring it up then? ( if it the way some of you say so, then that paragraph is just wasted and means absolutely nothing.)
Thanks for your opinions tho.
In addition, no where in the description of ring mail does it say the rings are made of metal. In my opinion the rings wan be bone, stone, hard wood, etc. They don't have to be metal.
That's absolutely true. It's also true of every other normally-metal armor, which is what most people in the thread have been saying :P
If someone wants to argue that formfitting doesn't mean formfitting, that's really not a conversation I'm at all interested in having
No one is arguing that. We're arguing that formfitting doesn't mean shape-changing. Formfitting fits a form, not all forms.
Formfitting is not a magic term, it's a thing that's in our world. In our world, formfitting clothing does not fit everyone. It fits a form within specific requirements. Just check out People of Walmart if you need proof.
So if this had extra, magical shape-changing properties that went beyond the understood definition of formfitting in our world, it would need to spell that out.
Beginning at 3rd level, your metallurgical pursuits have led to you making armor a conduit for your magic. As an action, you can turn a suit of armor you are wearing into Arcane Armor, provided you have smith's tools in hand.
You gain the following benefits while wearing this armor:
If the armor normally has a Strength requirement, the arcane armor lacks this requirement for you.
You can use the arcane armor as a spellcasting focus for your artificer spells.
The armor attaches to you and can’t be removed against your will. It also expands to cover your entire body, although you can retract or deploy the helmet as a bonus action. The armor replaces any missing limbs, functioning identically to a body part it is replacing.
The armor continues to be Arcane Armor until you don another suit of armor or you die.
ignore form fitting, you won’t get traction there, but read the above bolded section on arcane armor, “it also expands to cover your entire body...” I am joining a campaign where I will be playing an artificer armorer/moon Druid and this will be the logic I will use - my body changes shape, my arcane armor expands to cover my entire body. Also I will ask my dm to let my chest plate be made of wood, using carpenters tools instead of smiths tools.
Your metallurgical pursuits have led to you making armor a conduit for your magic. As an action, you can turn a suit of armor you are wearing into Arcane Armor, provided you have smith’s tools in hand.
You gain the following benefits while wearing this armor:
If the armor normally has a Strength requirement, the arcane armor lacks this requirement for you.
You can use the arcane armor as a spellcasting focus for your artificer spells.
The armor attaches to you and can’t be removed against your will. It also expands to cover your entire body, although you can retract or deploy the helmet as a bonus action. The armor replaces any missing limbs, functioning identically to a limb it replaces.
You can doff or don the armor as an action. (sorry, didn't paste in this section before)
The armor continues to be Arcane Armor until you don another suit of armor or you die.
It clearly states that it is a benefit of wearing the armor, and would therefore also apply when donning it as an action
Benefits of wildshape
You retain the benefit of any features from your class, race, or other source and can use them if the new form is physically capable of doing so. However, you can't use any of your SpecialSenses, such as Darkvision, unless your new form also has that sense.
You choose whether your Equipment falls to the ground in your space, merges into your new form, or is worn by it. Worn Equipment functions as normal, but the DM decides whether it is practical for the new form to wear a piece of Equipment, based on the creature's shape and size. Your Equipment doesn't change size or shape to match the new form, and any Equipment that the new form can't wear must either fall to the ground or merge with it. Equipment that merges with the form has no Effect until you leave the form.
Moon druid bonus action wild shape, choose for your armor to fall to the ground, use artificer armorer's class feature to don your arcane armor as an action, which,
"attaches to you and can’t be removed against your will. It also expands to cover your entire body, although you can retract or deploy the helmet as a bonus action. The armor replaces any missing limbs, functioning identically to a limb it replaces."
If the entire quoted section only applied to when you turn armor into arcane armor, rather than also when using an action to don or doff the armor, then you could only retract or deploy helm once when you made the armor arcane. Or that the armor only couldn't be removed if you hadn't taken it off since making it arcane. Used an action to don and doff it in the past and that would no longer apply? I think not.
Yes, it would be pretty high powered for a druid to wear armor in wild shape, but armor can be barded for animals and beasts. But an armorer is supposed to be able to magically and metallurgically alter their armor. I don't think its unreasonable that they could do it. and in doing so in a multiclass a druid gives up things, like higher level spells and higher cr wild shapes. Sorry for the novel and hope I didn't come across as antagonistic.
OK im very invested in creating an artificer/druid that that uses technology and biology to self buff and "change the world".
I imagine something similar to the simic conclave com Ravnica, a Bio scientist.
After studying the armorer class i found 2 things that seem very interesting.
This ability from the infiltrator power armor.
Second Skin. The armor’s weight is negligible, and it becomes formfitting and wearable under clothing. If the armor normally imposes disadvantage on Dexterity (Stealth) checks, the power armor doesn’t.
Since this is a "magical" set of armor, could formfitting mean that the armor would change to fit the druid in wild shape?
Then i found that only heavy armors can be Power armor, but looking at my options i found this:
" Ring Mail: This armor is Leather Armor with heavy rings sewn into it. The rings help reinforce the armor against blows from Swords and axes.
Ring Mail is inferior to Chain Mail, and it's usually worn only by those who can’t afford better armor."
So the metal restriction from druid can be acomplished and he can use the lesser heavy armor to get all other artificer (armorer) abilities.
So It seems that a druid can use heavy armor, and by doing so, become eligible to be also an armorer.
Would you agree with formfitting alowing this? And how exacly would a Wildshaped in magical heavy armor druid play in your opinion?
Your DM, of course, may rule otherwise, but I’d say form fitting doesn’t work the way you want it to. Wildshape specifically says “Your equipment doesn’t change size or shape to match the new form” so your form fitting armor would still be fitted to the form of whatever your base race is. It being magical or not has nothing to do with the restrictions built into the ability, if that mattered, it would say so.
As far as heavy armor, which is really a different question, ring mail is really iffy. There’s a lot of metal in it. Again, that’s going to be a DM ruling, combined with how your character interprets the taboo against metal armor.
You can still wear heavy armor, just think off the standard equipment list. Plate made from a bulette hide, or something, if your DM goes for it.
Wild Shape doesn't change the size or shape of your equipment, but "formfitting" pretty clearly does. It's very difficult to argue against the idea of your magically formfitting armor not fitting your form. Additionally, the Dungeon Master's Guide has this to say about magic gear in general: "In most cases, a magic item that’s meant to be worn can fit a creature regardless of size or build. Many magic garments are made to be easily adjustable, or they magically adjust themselves to the wearer."
However, assuming default construction materials, ringmail is absolutely made of metal, and thus druids will not wear it. If you want heavy armor that druids will use, talk to your DM about getting some made out of a more exotic material. Eberron has "bronzewood," which is exactly what it sounds like and can be used for medium and heavy armor. I'm sure Ravnica has something similar. Get creative with it.
Form fitting doesn’t mean shape shifting. It means you made it so it’s skin tight. You had to Use smith’s tools and make it into infiltrator armor at the end of a rest. You can’t expect something designed to be skin tight on an elf to just fit a bear.
Also it’s not a traditional magic item. It doesn’t persist after you die like it would if you’d made +1 hide armor or something. No one else in the party could wear it, even if they had your exact measurements.
Now, if you made it so it would properly fit a wildshape form (only one form), that could maybe work, but then it wouldn’t work in your standard shape.
Strange, the description in the PHB say they are leather armor. So we just ignore th PHB description when convenient then? haha
"Ring Mail: This armor is leather armor with heavy rings sewn into it. The rings help reinforce the armor against blows from swords and axes. Ring mail is inferior to chain mail, and it's usually worn only by those who can't afford better armor."
Personaly as a Dm i would alow the formfitting to mean exacly what it mean. "the armor always fitts you".
i imagine a armor with bands, rubber, adjustments and so on to always be a perfect fit.
Most magical armors Like this one, can change its size to fit another humanoid. A magical armor made for humans, woud fit a halfling that is one size smaller.
The ability formfitting means absolutely nothing if you remove the ability of the armor to change its shape to alow for other "forms".
why would the designers include this paragraph if all it does is say "the armor fits your body", well duh, all armor will aways fit my body... why the hell bring it up then? ( if it the way some of you say so, then that paragraph is just wasted and means absolutely nothing.)
Thanks for your opinions tho.
You’re ignoring the part that makes it ring mail: “with heavy rings sewn into it.” If you take the metal out, it is just leather armor, with an AC of 11 + Dex mod.
You realize chainmail and plate armor also have cloth or leather underneath, right?
This is not like most magical armor. Most magical armor, if you wanted to make it, would require extended downtime and crafting with exotic materials. This is something you make easily with a class ability. It is only magic for you. This is tailored to the wearer/creator and only, ever the wearer. If you are a human and take it off, and hand it to a halfling, it will not resize to fit the halfling. It will actually cease being power armor since you took it off
Form fitting clothing does not change its shape, it just fits you really tight. Far from being useless, the last paragraph of The description lists things It can do other than changing its shape, such as being able to wear it under clothes, or be heavy and not give stealth disadvantage. Again, if it could change its shape, it would say so. And if your argument is that it should change shape because it's magic, then that would apply to any magic armor a druid is wearing, which is certainly not the case.
Saga was suggesting other options for the ring mail. The rings are metal, but there can be a way around it by finding exotic, non metal components to replace the metal rings. Again, talk to your DM about the idea and you can make non metal heavy armor. Scale from dragon scales is probably the most common example, but there are other options.
I think this is fine to leave as a DM decision. It is debatable whether "formfitting" is a property or a description of the armor.
As mentioned above and promptly ignored, these are the Wild Shape rules. They are pretty specific and definitely override "formfitting" which is a vague descriptive term and probably not meant to have any mechanical effect other than fitting underneath clothes. If you've ever had "formfitting" jeans or similar clothes and then gained a bit of weight, you wouldn't argue a bear could fit into this armor. Formfitting does not mean spandex. Since it's made to so closely fit your human form, it's even less likely to fit than regular armor if you shape change into something vaguely humanoid because it doesn't change at all (because that's what WS specifically says) to match your new form.
It doesn't say "nonmagical equipment" or "unless the equipment can change to fit your form," it just says nope.
And there are pretty strong reasons they worded it like that. A bear in power armor, while awesome, is not at all in line with the expected power level of Wild Shape. Terrible AC is the intended primary weakness of WS. High AC would likely triple the effective HP on a feature that's already quite strong.
My homebrew subclasses (full list here)
(Artificer) Swordmage | Glasswright | (Barbarian) Path of the Savage Embrace
(Bard) College of Dance | (Fighter) Warlord | Cannoneer
(Monk) Way of the Elements | (Ranger) Blade Dancer
(Rogue) DaggerMaster | Inquisitor | (Sorcerer) Riftwalker | Spellfist
(Warlock) The Swarm
No, Wild Shape's general rules about equipment do not override specific equipment's features. Specific beats general. That's a fundamental pillar of rules interactions in D&D.
If someone wants to argue that formfitting doesn't mean formfitting, that's really not a conversation I'm at all interested in having, don't @ me, etc. But "specific beats general" is an easy one. Wild Shape doesn't need to say "unless the equipment can change to fit your form," because that's already baked into the fundamental rules of D&D.
No problem with Ring Mail being useable by a druid, but Form fitting does not mean shape changing.
To get armor that changes shape with a druid you need specific capability to do that.
The problem is you misunderstand what is going on. Formfitting is the GENERAL rule, Wild Shape is the SPECIFIC rule. It is specific to JUST the Druid Wildshape. Form Fitting applies to any kind of body, any kind of armor, any kind of class.
And Form fitting does NOT mean what you think it means. It does not change shape, it just is very tight. You are basically thinking that something that can 'shrink' can someone also change size to therefore let you be a Tiger form. Shrink != shape changing.
I have purchased form fitting clothing. There is no way my dog could fit in it.
Again, not interested in discussing "formfitting."
But the line in Wild Shape is a general rule about all equipment. If a specific piece of equipment has a rule particular to it that contradicts Wild Shape, the specific equipment's rule is the one that applies. There's no rational way to argue that "rule that applies to all equipment" is more specific than "rule that applies to this specific equipment."
Again, let me explain this, as you have REALLY twisted the rule. You basically have no idea what the words specific and general mean. Part of the problem is that you are confusing specific as a yes/no thing. The rule about Wild Shape is specific to Wild Shape. Rules about finesse are specific to finesse. The quesion is always what is the the specific QUESTION, and the thing most specific to the question is what matters.
The armor rule never mentions size changing at all. It is a general rule about the armor, which is not relevant.
Druid is a rule about armor worn while wild-shaping. It is not a general rule about armor and shape changing, it is as specific as it can get to the single form of shape changing called Wild shaping and also to any armor worn by it. The 'any armor' bit does NOT make it general, unless something already is specifically talking about Wild Shape.
The Power Armor rule is not specific. It does not mention changing shape in any form, let alone wildshaping. It applies to the armor fitting UNDER clothing, which is what it clearly specifies. It does not even mention having the ability to fit larger or smaller creatures. Yes it only applies to power armor because it is about Power Armor. That's the WRONG specificity - just as Finesse rule is specific but does not apply The specific is applying to wildshape, as THAT is the question we are discussing. Wildshaping is the most important thing, your attempt to twist words about Power Armor are tangential at best to the question.
Here, let me demonstrate with something similar.
You have a Gem of Enlarge in your pocket that states while you are attuned to the ring you are increases your size by one category. Next round you are polymorphed into a a dog, so now your size is small. But you claim "Enlarge specifically increased my size by one category, aren't I larger? NO. Wild shape specifically states " Equipment that merges with the form has no effect until you leave the form." The Gem is not worn, so dose not function.
The fact that the Gem specifically stares you get a size increase while attuned does not matter.
The specific case in question is WILD SHAPE. Things specific to Wild Shape rule. Things specific to anything else counts as General rule. Being specific to anything else makes it general. That counts for a Gem of Enlarge or any form fitting armor.
To counter the rule about Wildshape not working with armor, the armor must SPECIFY Wild shapeing. Even talking about shape changing in general does not count, because of the wording under Druid.
That is the specific that matters.
You want to house rule to make this armor super powerful? Go ahead. But that is what you are doing. Also house ruling very dramatically and as far as I can see just because you want it.
wow, this got much more responses than i would expect!
thank you all for your opninions. Tho sad, it can at least help me see that most DMs would not alow it, or understand that way.
And there it goes my hopes of playing a power armored bear with enlarge cast on it to fight like a megazord.
haha
And again thanks to you all. Specialy for @Sagatympana, i do agree with you that formfitting could work like this, but in the end, unless we can get a response from the designers on the INTENT, what they really meant by using formfitting, is up to each and every DM to alow or not.
In addition, no where in the description of ring mail does it say the rings are made of metal. In my opinion the rings wan be bone, stone, hard wood, etc. They don't have to be metal.
Watch your back, conserve your ammo,
and NEVER cut a deal with a dragon!
That's absolutely true. It's also true of every other normally-metal armor, which is what most people in the thread have been saying :P
No one is arguing that. We're arguing that formfitting doesn't mean shape-changing. Formfitting fits a form, not all forms.
Formfitting is not a magic term, it's a thing that's in our world. In our world, formfitting clothing does not fit everyone. It fits a form within specific requirements. Just check out People of Walmart if you need proof.
So if this had extra, magical shape-changing properties that went beyond the understood definition of formfitting in our world, it would need to spell that out.
My homebrew subclasses (full list here)
(Artificer) Swordmage | Glasswright | (Barbarian) Path of the Savage Embrace
(Bard) College of Dance | (Fighter) Warlord | Cannoneer
(Monk) Way of the Elements | (Ranger) Blade Dancer
(Rogue) DaggerMaster | Inquisitor | (Sorcerer) Riftwalker | Spellfist
(Warlock) The Swarm
Arcane Armor
Beginning at 3rd level, your metallurgical pursuits have led to you making armor a conduit for your magic. As an action, you can turn a suit of armor you are wearing into Arcane Armor, provided you have smith's tools in hand.
You gain the following benefits while wearing this armor:
The armor continues to be Arcane Armor until you don another suit of armor or you die.
ignore form fitting, you won’t get traction there, but read the above bolded section on arcane armor, “it also expands to cover your entire body...” I am joining a campaign where I will be playing an artificer armorer/moon Druid and this will be the logic I will use - my body changes shape, my arcane armor expands to cover my entire body. Also I will ask my dm to let my chest plate be made of wood, using carpenters tools instead of smiths tools.
Metallurgical pursuits, eh?
"Not all those who wander are lost"
It clearly states that it is a benefit of wearing the armor, and would therefore also apply when donning it as an action
Benefits of wildshape
Moon druid bonus action wild shape, choose for your armor to fall to the ground, use artificer armorer's class feature to don your arcane armor as an action, which,
"attaches to you and can’t be removed against your will. It also expands to cover your entire body, although you can retract or deploy the helmet as a bonus action. The armor replaces any missing limbs, functioning identically to a limb it replaces."
If the entire quoted section only applied to when you turn armor into arcane armor, rather than also when using an action to don or doff the armor, then you could only retract or deploy helm once when you made the armor arcane. Or that the armor only couldn't be removed if you hadn't taken it off since making it arcane. Used an action to don and doff it in the past and that would no longer apply? I think not.
Yes, it would be pretty high powered for a druid to wear armor in wild shape, but armor can be barded for animals and beasts. But an armorer is supposed to be able to magically and metallurgically alter their armor. I don't think its unreasonable that they could do it. and in doing so in a multiclass a druid gives up things, like higher level spells and higher cr wild shapes. Sorry for the novel and hope I didn't come across as antagonistic.