Quote from IamSposta >>

Quote from Brian_Avery >>

It could be, but not necessarily... it isn't a rip in reality, it is an entrance, behind which is a magical effect that you cannot perceive or target and therefore cannot dispel.

 You can’t put a door in a wall without first putting a hole there. In this case, it’s a hole in reality. That must be a “magical effect” by it’s very nature. Therefore, if you dispel the entrance you dispel the whole spell.

I could logically see there being non-dispellable holes in reality, but in this case it is directly caused by a magical spell and very clearly within the parameters of what can be dispelled by Dispel Magic, cheap semantic justifications aside.

Quote from Ophidimancer >>

Quote from IamSposta >>

Quote from Brian_Avery >>

It could be, but not necessarily... it isn't a rip in reality, it is an entrance, behind which is a magical effect that you cannot perceive or target and therefore cannot dispel.

 You can’t put a door in a wall without first putting a hole there. In this case, it’s a hole in reality. That must be a “magical effect” by it’s very nature. Therefore, if you dispel the entrance you dispel the whole spell.

I could logically see there being non-dispellable holes in reality, but in this case it is directly caused by a magical spell and very clearly within the parameters of what can be dispelled by Dispel Magic, cheap semantic justifications aside.

 I could accept the presence of non-dispellable holes in reality too, just not ones created by actual frikin’ spells.... like, gee, I don’t know... Rope Trick maybe? Rope Trick is already OP, making it non-dispellable is WAAAYYYY OP for a 2nd-level spell.

Quote from Kotath >>

Quote from Brian_Avery >>

I am not making up that an empty space that is an entrance is an empty space that is an entrance... that is just common sense, you are the one trying to make it a solid or an object or anything that you can get your hands on to dispel... it quite simply is an opening to the extradimensional space that the occupants crawl through at the end of the rope to gain access, nothing more.

And I am not saying you have to target the target or whatever nonsense you bringing up now, trying to confuse the issue with repeating the word target and applying it to itself for some strange reason, which by the way has nothing to do with the fact that you cannot target the magical effect itself so therefore cannot dispel it.

 

 

You are making up that it is 'just an empty space.' The spell description does not say 'there is just an empty space where the entrance is.' You are also completely ignoring that it is also not 'just an empty space' but a space in which a portal between planes exists. The spell itself says that there is something there which is invisible. You are completely ignoring that and replacing it in your mind with 'there is nothing there.' 

 This^^

Quote from IamSposta >>

Let me try this another way. If the entrance is not created by the spell, then what created it?

 Pretty much just logic. If you build 3.5 walls and a roof, you have created an "inside." "Outside" is still accessible, but you never built anything to connect them. The "entrance" exists as a consequence of partial separation. You did not build the entrance, but it exists. It is a concept, not an object or effect.

An opening between 2 dimensions is not different than an opening between a building and the outside.

Didn't I suggest dropping this? 99.99% of DMs will never even have to worry about this interaction, and the rules leave enough up to interpretation that an argument won't go anywhere.

The nature of this debate is that a ruling here relies on more information than is described by the rules. It requires inference and interpretation and conclusions drawn from those aren't necessarily universal and are in fact heavily DM and setting dependent. To be universally conclusive it requires a more detailed (and consistent) physics than the rules provide.

In other words different people will draw different conclusions and this is why DMs exist.

Except the entrance is a magical effect produced by the spell, which can be targeted by Dispel Magic.

And if we were discussing dispelling multiple pocket dimensions by dispelling one then your example might actually have something to do with this conversation. But we’re not, so it doesn’t. Look at the next paragraph of Slow to see my point:

An affected target's speed is halved, it takes a −2 penalty to AC and Dexterity saving throws, and it can't use reactions. On its turn, it can use either an action or a bonus action, not both. Regardless of the creature's abilities or magic items, it can't make more than one melee or ranged attack during its turn.

The idea of dispelling the entrance to dispel the whole spell would be more akin to dispelling the reduction to speed on the creature, and that also dispelling the AC penalty, the Dex Save penalty, the Reaction loss, the turn restriction, and the attack restrictions too. Dispel anyone of those effects, dispel the whole spell on that creature.

Dispel the entrance, dispel the whole rope trick.

Quote from Brian_Avery >>

When you said the entrance was clearly a magical effect, you separateed them into 2 or 3 magical effects... the entrance... the space... and possibly the rope... regardless of whether it is 2 or 3 there are now multiple magical effects and you cannot target the space or rope... therefore that only leaves the entrance... and if you dispel the entrance then only the entrance is dispelled, not any other magical effects... by your own reasoning you are undone.

 I am not undone.

LEVEL

3rd

CASTING TIME

1 Action

RANGE/AREA

120 ft

COMPONENTS

V, S

DURATION

Instantaneous

SCHOOL

Abjuration

ATTACK/SAVE

None

DAMAGE/EFFECT

Control

 

Choose one creature, object, or magical effect within range. Any spell of 3rd level or lower on the target ends. For each spell of 4th level or higher on the target, make an ability check using your spellcasting ability. The DC equals 10 + the spell's level. On a successful check, the spell ends.

At Higher Levels. When you cast this spell using a spell slot of 4th level or higher, you automatically end the effects of a spell on the target if the spell's level is equal to or less than the level of the spell slot you used.

 Rope Trick is a 2nd level spell. Dispel the entrance, dispel rope trick.

If you're arguing that the only way to dispel rope trick is to be able to see and target the rope, do you also argue that the only way to dispel darkness (when cast on an object) is to be able to see and target the object darkness was cast on? For what it's worth, this argument has been going on for years, and through previous editions. Just searching "dispel magic vs rope trick" into Google gives you results going back to the early 2000's, and someone in each of the forums always argues you have to "see" the rope itself. (And then the majority of every discussion disagrees... search and see for yourselves, for every edition of D&D that was referenced at the time of each forum discussion)

Quote from Brian_Avery >>

Oh wait a minute, you can't actually target the entrance and therefore can't dispel the rope trick.

Thanks for the references they were a big help.

I am glad that I was actually able to discern that his whole dispel argument hung on trying to target the entrance, and since he cannot target the entrance he cannot dispel the rope trick.

 

 But you can, because it is a magical effect. 

Quote from Brian_Avery >>

But you can't because it's not a magical effect. What ever made you think it was?

 It is an effect produced by a spell. It must therefore be a magical effect.

Any “gateway” “portal” or “entrance” between dimensions is a “thing” of some sort, not an absence of a thing. An absence of anything wouldn’t lead to another dimension or every step we take would be a nightmare. It’s literally a threshold between dimensions. So therefore there must be something causing that portal or gateway. In this case, a 2nd-level spell, namely Rope Trick.

Quote from Brian_Avery >>

It is precisely nothing, the absence of anything, just an entrance into the space. The rope trick spell is responsible for it being there... or not being there as the case nay be since it is literally nothing.

There wouldn't be another dimension with every step we take since we don't cast rope trick with every step we take.

Think of this way... if a thief stole the wooden door to your house would your house fall down or be destroyed... no.

And more importantly and to the actual point, if another thief came along and tried to steal your doorway... not the door, that's already missing, the doorway... not the frame around the doorway or any other actual thing but the metaphysical doorway, the empty space where the door used to be.

You are trying to make the entrance into a separate magical effect besides the space just so you can target it but also have it be linked so that if one goes so does the other. Regardless of dispel magic actually saying that "Any spell of 3rd level or lower on the target ends." there is actually no spell on the entrance... and since the entrance is the absence of space, an opening that the occupants gained access to the space through, it is not a magical effect or anything else for that matter.

The only apparent effect of the spell is to create a space for up to 8 people to hide in for an hour... and you can't attack or cast spells across the entrance, in or out... so cannot target the only magical effect the rope trick produces, and since you can't target the magical effect, you cannot dispel the magical effect.

 By your interpretation then, Rope Trick is more powerful than Demiplane. That’s the stupidest effing thing I have heard all day.

How would you rule about someone trying to dispel a Gate? It is described as a portal and an opening, both of which are synonymous with an empty open space and not actually anything solid or there.

If it has to specify that something is invisible, then clearly its not “nothing.”

How would you rule about using Dispel Magic on an Alarm spell that has been cast on an area undefined by a door or window, as defined in that spell?

I'll throw in and say:

I don't care what the RAW says. There is an entrance, it can be seen with see invisibility and similar, it can then be targeted by dispel which ends all of the spell.

Why?

Because it's a 2nd level spell and having it be immune to dispel would make it insanely powerful even comparable to 8th or 9th level spells. I'm not having that in my game.

Quote from Cyb3rM1nd >>

I'll throw in and say:

I don't care what the RAW says. There is an entrance, it can be seen with see invisibility and similar, it can then be targeted by dispel which ends all of the spell.

Why?

Because it's a 1st level spell and having it be immune to dispel would make it insanely powerful even comparable to 8th or 9th level spells. I'm not having that in my game.

 Rope Trick is 2nd-level, but otherwise this^^

Quote from IamSposta >>

Quote from Cyb3rM1nd >>

I'll throw in and say:

I don't care what the RAW says. There is an entrance, it can be seen with see invisibility and similar, it can then be targeted by dispel which ends all of the spell.

Why?

Because it's a 1st level spell and having it be immune to dispel would make it insanely powerful even comparable to 8th or 9th level spells. I'm not having that in my game.

 Rope Trick is 2nd-level, but otherwise this^^

 
Oops, sowwy, was rushing. Thanks for correcting. But, aye, doesn't change anything.

Quote from Brian_Avery >>

Dispel magic can target a Gate spell because the Gate spell's purpose is to create a Gate

Just as the purpose of Rope Trick is to create a pocket dimension with an invisible entrance, all of which are part of the spell. I'm not seeing the differentiation in your logic, do you care to clarify what the difference is?

Quote from Brian_Avery >>

 

Dispel magic can target an Alarm spell because the Alarm spell's purpose is to create a magical effect that will trigger an alarm when the conditions are met.

Yes, but what is there to target, exactly, if Alarm is cast on an area instead of a door or window?

Quote from Brian_Avery >>

If someone cast the Alarm spell on an area, and then someone else came along and casts Detect Magic within range of the area, but not yet entering it so not triggering the alarm. Can the alarm be detected?

If they are within 30 feet, yes, it's presence will be detected.