Dispel magic can target a Gate spell because the Gate spell's purpose is to create a Gate, it is 9th level so a roll would probably be necessary.
With magic, 'nothing' can be invisible.
It doesn't bounce off of the nothing left or right of the entrance because the rope trick spell says that attacks and spells cannot cross the entrance.
Dispel magic can indeed target magical effects instead of creatures or objects, the magical effect of the rope trick is protected behind an entrance that will not allow attacks or spells to cross in or out... so dispel magic cannot target the rope trick spell... and therefore cannot dispel it.
You are right about it not saying the entrance in nothing, it also doesn't say it is something... it just says it is invisible and no attacks or spells can cross in or out.
Dispel magic can target an Alarm spell because the Alarm spell's purpose is to create a magical effect that will trigger an alarm when the conditions are met.
Nothing says the entrance can be seen with see invisibility, the entrance is only described as invisible... it is not given any other features that would be seen. It can't be targeted by dispel because the spell says no attacks or spells can cross in or out.
Why?
Because it's not a 1st level spell and having it be 'immune as you say' would not make it insanely powerful compared to 8th or 9th level spells. You are free to disregard any rules or homebrew any rules you want for your game. That is what makes D&D fun for everyone.
Final note: I rule that dispel magic cannot target the extradimensional space that is the rope trick spell because it is behind an entrance that doesn't allow attacks or spells to cross in or out.
Then that is your houserule.
Since D&D5e is a “plain language” rules game, we can assume that the dictionary is as valid a source of rules clarification as any other.
en·trance
/ˈentrəns/
noun
an opening, such as a door, passage, or gate, that allows access to a place.
noun
/noun/
noun
GRAMMAR
noun: noun; plural noun: nouns
a word (other than a pronoun) used to identify any of a class of people, places, or things ( common noun ), or to name a particular one of these ( proper noun ).
I think we can all agree that an “entrance” is not a “person,” and I think we can also all agree that the interior is a “place” but not the entrance. Therefore, by its very definition the entrance must be a “thing.”
You are right about it not saying the entrance in nothing, it also doesn't say it is something... it just says it is invisible and no attacks or spells can cross in or out.
[sic]
Nothing says the entrance can be seen with see invisibility, the entrance is only described as invisible... it is not given any other features that would be seen. It can't be targeted by dispel because the spell says no attacks or spells can cross in or out.
[sic]
Also, yes, it is described as “invisible” as are many things in D&D. None of them specifically say they “can be seen with see invisibility” because they don’t have to. See Invisibility says it.
For the duration, you see invisible creatures and objects as if they were visible, and you can see into the Ethereal Plane. Ethereal creatures and objects appear ghostly and translucent.
That is now two days in a row that the stupidest thing I have heard came from your arguments in this thread, this one worse than yesterday’s.
If someone cast the Alarm spell on an area, and then someone else came along and casts Detect Magic within range of the area, but not yet entering it so not triggering the alarm. Can the alarm be detected?
Of course, as long as you are within the 30-foot range of Detect Magic.
The entrance can be seen with see invisibility. The entrance is a viewable effect showing a hole in the air, leading into an extradimensional space. Just as you can target the opening made by Gate or Demiplane or Magnificent Mansion, you can target this entrance. Normally it would be invisable meaning if you were under it and looked up, you'd see normal air as if it wasn't there. But with see invisibility if you looked up you'd see the hole leading into the created space. This is why the entrance is described as invisible - so people normally cannot see a hole in the air.
If you can see the hole, you can target it. That hole, it's perrimeter, it's separation of this plane and another, is viewable and targetable and Dispel Magic does not require you to target everything of the spell, just part of the spell effect which that entrance would be. Once targeted the magic effect, you dispel any and all spells affecting it, since the Rope Trick spell is what is causing that effect, the Rope Trick spell ends.
Making this immune to dispel would mean many other spells also become immune, and more, higher level, spells are rendered utterly useless. The logic you're applying would also make most other spells immune to dispel as well.
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The rope trick's purpose is to create an extradimensional space for hiding out for an hour.
No, I don't think you get to say that the "purpose" of the spell is to create the pocket dimension and only the pocket dimension and exclude the entrance from the effects of the spell. That's arbitrarily excluding something that the spell very clearly creates, which would not exist without the spell, and without which would make the spell useless and pointless. The entrance to the spell is part of the spell and a magical effect and you excluding that from it is very much a houserule.
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I sing to life and to its tragic beauty To pain and to strife, but all that dances through me The rise and the fall, I've lived through it all!
The entrance can be seen with see invisibility. The entrance is a viewable effect showing a hole in the air, leading into an extradimensional space. Just as you can target the opening made by Gate or Demiplane or Magnificent Mansion, you can target this entrance. Normally it would be invisable meaning if you were under it and looked up, you'd see normal air as if it wasn't there. But with see invisibility if you looked up you'd see the hole leading into the created space. This is why the entrance is described as invisible - so people normally cannot see a hole in the air.
If you can see the hole, you can target it. That hole, it's perrimeter, it's separation of this plane and another, is viewable and targetable and Dispel Magic does not require you to target everything of the spell, just part of the spell effect which that entrance would be. Once targeted the magic effect, you dispel any and all spells affecting it, since the Rope Trick spell is what is causing that effect, the Rope Trick spell ends.
Making this immune to dispel would mean many other spells also become immune, and more, higher level, spells are rendered utterly useless. The logic you're applying would also make most other spells immune to dispel as well.
The rope trick's purpose is to create an extradimensional space for hiding out for an hour.
No, I don't think you get to say that the "purpose" of the spell is to create the pocket dimension and only the pocket dimension and exclude the entrance from the effects of the spell. That's arbitrarily excluding something that the spell very clearly creates, which would not exist without the spell, and without which would make the spell useless and pointless. The entrance to the spell is part of the spell and a magical effect and you excluding that from it is very much a houserule.
That’s what I’ve been saying since yesterday. It’s gotten me nowhere. Good luck folks.
Ophidimancer Rope trick is clearly designed to be a space to take a short rest, just as tiny hut is for taking long rests
That is how people use it, sure but what we're debating is what is considered part of the spell and thus magical. I assert that the entrance to the space is intrinsically part of the spell and as such is a magical effect and a viable target for dispellation.
We seem to disagree on whether or not the entrance is a magical effect. Is there somewhere in the rules that defines what a magical effect is exactly?
There are a bunch of guidelines in Sage Advice, but I don't think we even need to go that far. You would agree that all spells are magical effects, yes? We're just debating here whether or not the entrance to the rope trick is part of the spell or not. I assert that it is. It was created by a spell, it would not exist without a spell, the spell itself wouldn't make sense without it, and when the spell ends it goes away. It is very clearly part of the magic of a spell that is not instantaneous, because some spells do summon effects that then become natural parts of the world but this is not the case here.
IamSposta Really? Because if you actually did read spells as you say you do you might have noticed that detect magic can only see the auras around creatures or objects... not areas.
The rope trick spell says those inside can see out of the entrance... but purposefully omits whether those outside can see in, I would say this is because they cannot see inside, even if they could see invisible.
Dispelling one art of a spell does not dispel the whole spell, even though dispel magic clearly says it does. The slow spell example stated in previous posts helps prove this point as when you dispel one magical effect of the slow spell, which includes all the penalties of the spell, on just one target... the same, single slow spell persists on the other targets... so one casting of dispel magic does not end the entire slow spell on the other 5 targets, they continue will all the penalties for the slow spell.
To be clear, when I refer to dispelling one magical effect from slow, it is not 1 penalty or anything, it is the entirety of the slow spell's penalties but just on that 1 target creature, leaving the other 5 unaffected.
The reason for this is that a specific ruling overrides a general one... the general one being the way dispel magic usually works vs. how it affects multiple magical effects.
I am not making this immune, it is simply unable to be targeted. No other spells gain the protection from the rope trick's entrance, higher level spells are not rendered useless, and the logic I am applying would not make most other spells immune to dispel also. Stop your fear mongering and take a deep breath. Relax. Dispel magic cannot target rope trick, but in your game you can make it different, you can homebrew whatever rules you want to make things work the way you want.
I already proved to you why Detect Magic can detect rope trick, just not outline it’s entrance here:
So let's try this again... each time you post that detect magic can detect auras around visible objects... or highlight it to say the same thing, visible creature or object... what part of invisible entrance do you not get... if detect magic detects visible and the entrance is invisible... visible vs. invisible
I don't know how you do not pick up on this... visible and invisible... get it?
Detect magic cannot detect invisible things... the entrance to the rope trick is invisible.
(wait a minute, do you actually get this and are just trolling me or something... just curious)
Okay, let’s try this again. It says:
For the duration, you sense the presence of magic within 30 feet of you. If you sense magic in this way, you can use your action to see a faint aura around any visible creature or object in the area that bears magic, and you learn its school of magic, if any.
Lets break this down:
For the duration, you sense the presence of magic within 30 feet of you.
That means it detects the presence of magic within 30 feet. It does not specify “visible.”
If you sense magic in this way, you can use your action to see a faint aura around any visible creature or object in the area that bears magic, and you learn its school of magic, if any.
That means If you have already sensed it, and it’s visible, then you can see the aura.
You can detect the presence of magic it if it’s visible, invisible, sitting on you face, whatever, as long as it is within 30 feet. You can only see it’s aura if it’s visible. The spell has two effects, one that requires nothing other than a 30-foot proximity, and the second effect requires the first effect, and visibility.
So, I will repeat, again, you could since the presence of the portal, but not be able to detect its location because it is invisible. Have I finally made that clear enough for you?
That would apply to detecting any spell.
I already proved to you why your Slow analogy doesn’t apply here:
And if we were discussing dispelling multiple pocket dimensions by dispelling one then your example might actually have something to do with this conversation. But we’re not, so it doesn’t. Look at the next paragraph of Slow to see my point:
An affected target's speed is halved, it takes a −2 penalty to AC and Dexterity saving throws, and it can't use reactions. On its turn, it can use either an action or a bonus action, not both. Regardless of the creature's abilities or magic items, it can't make more than one melee or ranged attack during its turn.
The idea of dispelling the entrance to dispel the whole spell would be more akin to dispelling the reduction to speed on the creature, and that also dispelling the AC penalty, the Dex Save penalty, the Reaction loss, the turn restriction, and the attack restrictions too. Dispel anyone of those effects, dispel the whole spell on that creature.
Dispel magic can target a Gate spell because the Gate spell's purpose is to create a Gate, it is 9th level so a roll would probably be necessary.
With magic, 'nothing' can be invisible.
It doesn't bounce off of the nothing left or right of the entrance because the rope trick spell says that attacks and spells cannot cross the entrance.
Dispel magic can indeed target magical effects instead of creatures or objects, the magical effect of the rope trick is protected behind an entrance that will not allow attacks or spells to cross in or out... so dispel magic cannot target the rope trick spell... and therefore cannot dispel it.
You are right about it not saying the entrance in nothing, it also doesn't say it is something... it just says it is invisible and no attacks or spells can cross in or out.
Dispel magic can target an Alarm spell because the Alarm spell's purpose is to create a magical effect that will trigger an alarm when the conditions are met.
Nothing says the entrance can be seen with see invisibility, the entrance is only described as invisible... it is not given any other features that would be seen. It can't be targeted by dispel because the spell says no attacks or spells can cross in or out.
Why?
Because it's not a 1st level spell and having it be 'immune as you say' would not make it insanely powerful compared to 8th or 9th level spells. You are free to disregard any rules or homebrew any rules you want for your game. That is what makes D&D fun for everyone.
Final note: I rule that dispel magic cannot target the extradimensional space that is the rope trick spell because it is behind an entrance that doesn't allow attacks or spells to cross in or out.
Then that is your houserule.
Since D&D5e is a “plain language” rules game, we can assume that the dictionary is as valid a source of rules clarification as any other.
en·trance
/ˈentrəns/
noun
an opening, such as a door, passage, or gate, that allows access to a place.
noun
/noun/
noun
GRAMMAR
noun: noun; plural noun: nouns
a word (other than a pronoun) used to identify any of a class of people, places, or things ( common noun ), or to name a particular one of these ( proper noun ).
I think we can all agree that an “entrance” is not a “person,” and I think we can also all agree that the interior is a “place” but not the entrance. Therefore, by its very definition the entrance must be a “thing.”
You are right about it not saying the entrance in nothing, it also doesn't say it is something... it just says it is invisible and no attacks or spells can cross in or out.
[sic]
Nothing says the entrance can be seen with see invisibility, the entrance is only described as invisible... it is not given any other features that would be seen. It can't be targeted by dispel because the spell says no attacks or spells can cross in or out.
[sic]
Also, yes, it is described as “invisible” as are many things in D&D. None of them specifically say they “can be seen with see invisibility” because they don’t have to. See Invisibility says it.
For the duration, you see invisible creatures and objects as if they were visible, and you can see into the Ethereal Plane. Ethereal creatures and objects appear ghostly and translucent.
That is now two days in a row that the stupidest thing I have heard came from your arguments in this thread, this one worse than yesterday’s.
You have disproven none of it. You simply keep repeating yourself, but have offered no evidence to support your claims.
Again, by targeting only magical effect I mean the magical effect of the slow on a single creature, not 1 aspect of the slow spell such as AC or half speed and such things... dispelling the slow effect on one creature dispels all penalties of the slow spell, but only on that creature.
Invisibilty is indeed a magical effect, so is an extradimensional space wouldn't you say?... the extradimensional space isn't invisible and the entrance isn't an extradimensional space, right?
Or is it? If the entrance is considered to be an extradimensional space it is out of range of the dispel magic spell and can't be targeted.
If it is a separate magical effect you can only target the entrance and not the extradimensional space.
When you cast dispel magic you can choose creature or object... if you choose either you can dispel any and all spells that affect those targets, 10 20 or 30 there is no limit.
But if you choose magical effect, you can only get rid of one with each casting of the dispel magic spell.
This isn't correct. You can target a creature, object or magical effect. You dispel all spells affecting/creating/causing that target. If you choose a magical effect you end the spell itself that causes it, it doesn't matter if the spell has a bajillion other effect or just that one, the spell itself ends.
The "entrance" and the "space" is all part of one effect. So ending the spell effecting the entrance, ends all of it.
Your "slow" example isn't relevant, because dispel only ends on the target, so you end slow on the target creature. However, in the case of Rope Trick, an effect of the spell is being targeted and the spell and its effects are all in one.
Imagine this: make a cube, cut a hole in one side. Now face the hole towards you. Can you touch the rim of the hole without actually passing into the space inside? Yes, of course you can, because that rim is visible and tangible. Even if the rest of the cube couldn't be touched or seen, you can still see (see invisibility/ true sight/ etc) that rim and interact with it. That rim is part of the cube. Now image you had a rob that destroys any cubes it touches. What do you think happens when you touch the rod to the rim in the same way you touched it before? Does using the rod instead of yourself somehow mean the rules changed? No. Does it mean the rim stops being part of the cube? Nope. So, of course it's bye bye cube.
The cube is the Rope Trick spell. The rim is the entrance. The cube-destroying rod is dispel magic.
Explain why you think the rod somehow fails?
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Attacks and spells can't cross through the entrance into or out of the extradimensional space, but those inside can see out of it as if through a 3-foot-by-5-foot window centered on the rope.
Wouldn't that mean that whether or not you could see it you could not target it as it does not allow attacks or spells to cross through the entrance... to me this suggests that the entrance itself is somehow immune to attacks and spells, not allowing them to cross through, in or out.
It suggests no such thing to me and I don't think that's a good interpretation of that, at all. Spells cannot cross into to affect things inside the pocket dimension, but that doesn't mean they cannot affect the entrance itself.
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I sing to life and to its tragic beauty To pain and to strife, but all that dances through me The rise and the fall, I've lived through it all!
Spells cannot go past the entrance, but the entrance is not past itself. It is the line between regular space and the pocket dimension. Spells can go up to that line, but not past it.
How about this. Go get a drinking glass. Any kind. Put it on the table with the open part facing up. Get a piece of paper, and place it over the top of the glass so it covers the opening.
Is the paper touching the rim of the glass? -- Yes, it would be.
Is the paper inside the space in the glass? - No, it is resting on the rims of the glass (the entrance) without going in (the space).
So, you can interact with the entrance without having to pass into the space. The entrance isn't immune to anything at all. So it can be targeted and dispelled without any magic ever having to pass into the space.
--
The blocking things passing through was intended to safeguards the inhabitants from being shot/fireballed - this does not protect the entrance from being targeted for dispel.
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The forums aren't working very well for me right now so I can't do fancy formats.
"it's effects would end upon reaching the entrance"
No, since the entrance is part of the spell and a magical effect, it reaches the entrance and dispels it. Spells can go up to and include the entrance, but not anything past it.
From Sage Advice regarding something similar: Can dispel magic end globe of invulnerability?
Yes, dispel magic can dispel the barrier created by globe of invulnerability, but not any magical effects that are active inside the barrier.
If you remove one side of a cube then there are only 5 remaining. 4 of those sides are what make up the rim, but you can't reach them because the side you removed, even though it is removed, has a condition that does not allow attacks or spells to pass beyond it... to the rim made by the 4 other sides. Since you cannot target them with your magic rod they are not affected and the cube remains.
If you can go up the the entrance but not cross it then how can you affect it, or even target it...any spell would either not be able to be cast in the first place... or it's effects would end upon reaching the entrance, not affecting it in any way, and especially not dispelling it.
You are assuming that it’s a cube with a side missing. Where is that in the description?
Also, the entrance is only 3‘x5’. That would mean that the interior couldn’t possibly be bigger than 3’x5’xN’ long like a corridor..... It would be more accurate to conceptualize a room with a single window hole in one wall and no doors. Oh wait:
Attacks and spells can't cross through the entrance into or out of the extradimensional space, but those inside can see out of it as if through a 3-foot-by-5- foot window centered on the rope.
So what stops things things from entering through a window hole...? That’s right, a window. In this case a window that people can pass through, but attacks and spells cannot. But the window itself can still be targeted.
You all keep saying the entrance can be targeted but I say it cannot.
You say it is a magical effect, I'm not entirely convinced it is since it doesn't say so anywhere.
The only things the spell mentions about the entrance is it is invisible and attacks and spell cannot cross in or out. Going from this in the spell description it is clear to me that you are not intended to interact with the entrance (therefore you cannot target it or dispel it) and since dispel magic is a spell it cannot get past the entrance to affect the spell (magical effect) of rope trick.
If you used a spell to dig a hole, is the hole a result of the spell in such a way that it is a magical effect and can be dispelled. NO.
The entrance to the space is a creation of the spell, its existence is sustained by the spell, when the spell ends it goes away, the spell itself doesn't make sense without it, it is a part of a magical spell and thus a magical effect.
Furthermore it is not at all clear that you cannot interact with the entrance, that is something you're adding. Spells cannot cross into the pocket dimension, but it says nothing about the entrance itself which, again, is a magical effect because of the above.
There are spells that do things like dig holes. Mold earth does it and what is its duration? Instantaneous. Because that's where we usually find spells that make permanent real changes to the world. Rope trick is not instantaneous. The entrance is a result of magic, it's sustained by magic, and it goes away without magic. It is a magical effect!
Can you use dispel magic on the creations of a spell like animate dead or affect those creations with antimagic field?
Whenever you wonder whether a spell’s effects can be dispelled or suspended, you need to answer one question: is the spell’s duration instantaneous? If the answer is yes, there is nothing to dispel or suspend. Here’s why: the effects of an instantaneous spell are brought into being by magic, but the effects aren’t sustained by magic. The magic flares for a split second and then vanishes. For example, the instantaneous spell animate dead harnesses magical energy to turn a corpse or a pile of bones into an undead creature. That necromantic magic is present for an instant and is then gone. The resulting undead now exists without the magic’s help. Casting dispel magic on the creature can’t end its mockery of life, and the undead can wander into an antimagic field with no adverse effect.
Another example: cure wounds instantaneously restores hit points to a creature. Because the spell’s duration is instantaneous, the restoration can’t be later dispelled. And you don’t suddenly lose hit points if you step into an antimagic field !
The only things the spell mentions about the entrance is it is invisible and attacks and spell cannot cross in or out. Going from this in the spell description it is clear to me that you are not intended to interact with the entrance (therefore you cannot target it or dispel it) and since dispel magic is a spell it cannot get past the entrance to affect the spell (magical effect) of rope trick.
Globe of Invulnerability is another spell that, similar to Rope Trick, prevents spells form affecting things inside its space, but here we see from Sage Advice that the globe can be dispelled.
Sage Advice guidance on whether or not something is magical:
Is the breath weapon of a dragon magical?
If you cast antimagic field, don armor of invulnerability, or use another feature of the game that protects against magical or nonmagical effects, you might ask yourself, “Will this protect me against a dragon’s breath?” The breath weapon of a typical dragon isn’t considered magical, so antimagic field won’t help you but armor of invulnerability will.
You might be thinking, “Dragons seem pretty magical to me.” And yes, they are extraordinary! Their description even says they’re magical. But our game makes a distinction between two types of magic:
the background magic that is part of the D&D multiverse’s physics and the physiology of many D&D creatures
the concentrated magical energy that is contained in a magic item or channeled to create a spell or other focused magical effect
In D&D, the first type of magic is part of nature. It is no more dispellable than the wind. A monster like a dragon exists because of that magic-enhanced nature. The second type of magic is what the rules are concerned about. When a rule refers to something being magical, it’s referring to that second type. Determining whether a game feature is magical is straightforward. Ask yourself these questions about the feature:
Is it a magic item?
Is it a spell? Or does it let you create the effects of a spell that’s mentioned in its description?
Is it a spell attack?
Is it fueled by the use of spell slots?
Does its description say it’s magical?
If your answer to any of those questions is yes, the feature is magical.
Let’s look at a white dragon’s Cold Breath and ask ourselves those questions. First, Cold Breath isn’t a magic item. Second, its description mentions no spell. Third, it’s not a spell attack. Fourth, the word “magical” appears nowhere in its description. Our conclusion: Cold Breath is not considered a magical game effect, even though we know that dragons are amazing, supernatural beings.
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I sing to life and to its tragic beauty To pain and to strife, but all that dances through me The rise and the fall, I've lived through it all!
Spells like globe of invulnerability bring a magical effect into being, the globe itself... whether or not there is anything ehind or within the globe is irrelevant for these purposes becasue the spell didn't bring them into being... so dispelling the globe is possible because it can be targeted.
In contrast the rope trick spell bring an extradimensional space into being, that is the magical effect of the spell, it is resting safely behind an entrance that will not allow attacks or spells through... so dispelling the rope trick is not possible because it cannot be targeted.
If the spell said the entrance was a solid color, like blue, but invisible... then I wouldn't be able to argue this point with you. But it doesn't say that, it lacks any descriptors... except for it being invisible. It would be nice if every spell could foresee every possibility but then they would be longer and probably way more complicated. Since this spell lacks any descriptors, except that it is invisible, unlike other things that are visible and then go invisible and can be seen by the spell see invisible. This entrance's only descriptor is that it is invisible, it's natural state is invisible... it may be the only thing in existence that if you look at it with see invisibility you would still not see it... it actually doesn't describe it as anything but invisible so we can't ascribe descriptors to it that it doesn't have.
Is the entrance a magic item?... no, it is an opening into the rope trick spell. Is it a spell? Or does it let you create the effects of a spell that’s mentioned in its description?... no, the extradimensioal space is the spell... and no, the entrance doesn't let you create the effects of a spell that's mentioned in its description. Is it a spell attack?... no. Is it fueled by the use of spell slots?... no, the rope trick spell which created the extradimensional space required a spell slot to cast... the entrance isn't fueled by spell slots though. Does it's description say it's magical?... no, being invisible is a condition (usually of a spell) but the entrance is not described as 'magical'
According to this I don't think the entrance is a magical effect.
The entrance to a rope trick is absolutely fueled by a spell slot, it would not exist without it. It is brought into existence by the use of a spell slot, it is maintained by the spell that is the result of said spell slot, and it goes away when the spell ends. It is absolutely a magical effect and now you're just arguing facetiously just because you want to stick to your guns. It's okay, you can change your opinion, you know.
By all the parsimony of Occam's Razor ... it's more of a stretch to fabricate some sort of extra, non-magical, non-spell effect of a spell than it is to just call it what it is ... which is a part of the spell and thus magical.
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I sing to life and to its tragic beauty To pain and to strife, but all that dances through me The rise and the fall, I've lived through it all!
Then that is your houserule.
Since D&D5e is a “plain language” rules game, we can assume that the dictionary is as valid a source of rules clarification as any other.
I think we can all agree that an “entrance” is not a “person,” and I think we can also all agree that the interior is a “place” but not the entrance. Therefore, by its very definition the entrance must be a “thing.”
Also, yes, it is described as “invisible” as are many things in D&D. None of them specifically say they “can be seen with see invisibility” because they don’t have to. See Invisibility says it.
That is now two days in a row that the stupidest thing I have heard came from your arguments in this thread, this one worse than yesterday’s.
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Of course, as long as you are within the 30-foot range of Detect Magic.
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The entrance can be seen with see invisibility. The entrance is a viewable effect showing a hole in the air, leading into an extradimensional space. Just as you can target the opening made by Gate or Demiplane or Magnificent Mansion, you can target this entrance. Normally it would be invisable meaning if you were under it and looked up, you'd see normal air as if it wasn't there. But with see invisibility if you looked up you'd see the hole leading into the created space. This is why the entrance is described as invisible - so people normally cannot see a hole in the air.
If you can see the hole, you can target it. That hole, it's perrimeter, it's separation of this plane and another, is viewable and targetable and Dispel Magic does not require you to target everything of the spell, just part of the spell effect which that entrance would be. Once targeted the magic effect, you dispel any and all spells affecting it, since the Rope Trick spell is what is causing that effect, the Rope Trick spell ends.
Making this immune to dispel would mean many other spells also become immune, and more, higher level, spells are rendered utterly useless. The logic you're applying would also make most other spells immune to dispel as well.
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No, I don't think you get to say that the "purpose" of the spell is to create the pocket dimension and only the pocket dimension and exclude the entrance from the effects of the spell. That's arbitrarily excluding something that the spell very clearly creates, which would not exist without the spell, and without which would make the spell useless and pointless. The entrance to the spell is part of the spell and a magical effect and you excluding that from it is very much a houserule.
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That’s what I’ve been saying since yesterday. It’s gotten me nowhere. Good luck folks.
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That is how people use it, sure but what we're debating is what is considered part of the spell and thus magical. I assert that the entrance to the space is intrinsically part of the spell and as such is a magical effect and a viable target for dispellation.
There are a bunch of guidelines in Sage Advice, but I don't think we even need to go that far. You would agree that all spells are magical effects, yes? We're just debating here whether or not the entrance to the rope trick is part of the spell or not. I assert that it is. It was created by a spell, it would not exist without a spell, the spell itself wouldn't make sense without it, and when the spell ends it goes away. It is very clearly part of the magic of a spell that is not instantaneous, because some spells do summon effects that then become natural parts of the world but this is not the case here.
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I already proved to you why Detect Magic can detect rope trick, just not outline it’s entrance here:
That would apply to detecting any spell.
I already proved to you why your Slow analogy doesn’t apply here:
I already proved to you that the entrance is targetable by Dispel Magic here:
You have disproven none of it. You simply keep repeating yourself, but have offered no evidence to support your claims.
Now you are just thising.
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This isn't correct. You can target a creature, object or magical effect. You dispel all spells affecting/creating/causing that target. If you choose a magical effect you end the spell itself that causes it, it doesn't matter if the spell has a bajillion other effect or just that one, the spell itself ends.
The "entrance" and the "space" is all part of one effect. So ending the spell effecting the entrance, ends all of it.
Your "slow" example isn't relevant, because dispel only ends on the target, so you end slow on the target creature. However, in the case of Rope Trick, an effect of the spell is being targeted and the spell and its effects are all in one.
Imagine this: make a cube, cut a hole in one side. Now face the hole towards you. Can you touch the rim of the hole without actually passing into the space inside? Yes, of course you can, because that rim is visible and tangible. Even if the rest of the cube couldn't be touched or seen, you can still see (see invisibility/ true sight/ etc) that rim and interact with it. That rim is part of the cube. Now image you had a rob that destroys any cubes it touches. What do you think happens when you touch the rod to the rim in the same way you touched it before? Does using the rod instead of yourself somehow mean the rules changed? No. Does it mean the rim stops being part of the cube? Nope. So, of course it's bye bye cube.
The cube is the Rope Trick spell.
The rim is the entrance.
The cube-destroying rod is dispel magic.
Explain why you think the rod somehow fails?
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It suggests no such thing to me and I don't think that's a good interpretation of that, at all. Spells cannot cross into to affect things inside the pocket dimension, but that doesn't mean they cannot affect the entrance itself.
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Canto alla vita
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I sing to life and to its tragic beauty
To pain and to strife, but all that dances through me
The rise and the fall, I've lived through it all!
You can touch the rim without passing it.
How about this. Go get a drinking glass. Any kind. Put it on the table with the open part facing up. Get a piece of paper, and place it over the top of the glass so it covers the opening.
Is the paper touching the rim of the glass? -- Yes, it would be.
Is the paper inside the space in the glass? - No, it is resting on the rims of the glass (the entrance) without going in (the space).
So, you can interact with the entrance without having to pass into the space. The entrance isn't immune to anything at all. So it can be targeted and dispelled without any magic ever having to pass into the space.
--
The blocking things passing through was intended to safeguards the inhabitants from being shot/fireballed - this does not protect the entrance from being targeted for dispel.
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You are assuming that it’s a cube with a side missing. Where is that in the description?
Also, the entrance is only 3‘x5’. That would mean that the interior couldn’t possibly be bigger than 3’x5’xN’ long like a corridor..... It would be more accurate to conceptualize a room with a single window hole in one wall and no doors. Oh wait:
So what stops things things from entering through a window hole...? That’s right, a window. In this case a window that people can pass through, but attacks and spells cannot. But the window itself can still be targeted.
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The entrance to the space is a creation of the spell, its existence is sustained by the spell, when the spell ends it goes away, the spell itself doesn't make sense without it, it is a part of a magical spell and thus a magical effect.
Furthermore it is not at all clear that you cannot interact with the entrance, that is something you're adding. Spells cannot cross into the pocket dimension, but it says nothing about the entrance itself which, again, is a magical effect because of the above.
There are spells that do things like dig holes. Mold earth does it and what is its duration? Instantaneous. Because that's where we usually find spells that make permanent real changes to the world. Rope trick is not instantaneous. The entrance is a result of magic, it's sustained by magic, and it goes away without magic. It is a magical effect!
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Can you use dispel magic on the creations of a spell like animate dead or affect those creations with antimagic field?
Whenever you wonder whether a spell’s effects can be dispelled or suspended, you need to answer one question: is the spell’s duration instantaneous? If the answer is yes, there is nothing to dispel or suspend. Here’s why: the effects of an instantaneous spell are brought into being by magic, but the effects aren’t sustained by magic. The magic flares for a split second and then vanishes. For example, the instantaneous spell animate dead harnesses magical energy to turn a corpse or a pile of bones into an undead creature. That necromantic magic is present for an instant and is then gone. The resulting undead now exists without the magic’s help. Casting dispel magic on the creature can’t end its mockery of life, and the undead can wander into an antimagic field with no adverse effect.
Another example: cure wounds instantaneously restores hit points to a creature. Because the spell’s duration is instantaneous, the restoration can’t be later dispelled. And you don’t suddenly lose hit points if you step into an antimagic field !
In contrast, a spell like conjure woodland beings has a non-instantaneous duration, which means its creations can be ended by dispel magic and they temporarily disappear within an antimagic field .
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Globe of Invulnerability is another spell that, similar to Rope Trick, prevents spells form affecting things inside its space, but here we see from Sage Advice that the globe can be dispelled.
Can dispel magic end globe of invulnerability?
Yes, dispel magic can dispel the barrier created by globe of invulnerability, but not any magical effects that are active inside the barrier.
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Sage Advice guidance on whether or not something is magical:
Is the breath weapon of a dragon magical?
If you cast antimagic field, don armor of invulnerability, or use another feature of the game that protects against magical or nonmagical effects, you might ask yourself, “Will this protect me against a dragon’s breath?” The breath weapon of a typical dragon isn’t considered magical, so antimagic field won’t help you but armor of invulnerability will.
You might be thinking, “Dragons seem pretty magical to me.” And yes, they are extraordinary! Their description even says they’re magical. But our game makes a distinction between two types of magic:
In D&D, the first type of magic is part of nature. It is no more dispellable than the wind. A monster like a dragon exists because of that magic-enhanced nature. The second type of magic is what the rules are concerned about. When a rule refers to something being magical, it’s referring to that second type. Determining whether a game feature is magical is straightforward. Ask yourself these questions about the feature:
If your answer to any of those questions is yes, the feature is magical.
Let’s look at a white dragon’s Cold Breath and ask ourselves those questions. First, Cold Breath isn’t a magic item. Second, its description mentions no spell. Third, it’s not a spell attack. Fourth, the word “magical” appears nowhere in its description. Our conclusion: Cold Breath is not considered a magical game effect, even though we know that dragons are amazing, supernatural beings.
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The entrance to a rope trick is absolutely fueled by a spell slot, it would not exist without it. It is brought into existence by the use of a spell slot, it is maintained by the spell that is the result of said spell slot, and it goes away when the spell ends. It is absolutely a magical effect and now you're just arguing facetiously just because you want to stick to your guns. It's okay, you can change your opinion, you know.
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By all the parsimony of Occam's Razor ... it's more of a stretch to fabricate some sort of extra, non-magical, non-spell effect of a spell than it is to just call it what it is ... which is a part of the spell and thus magical.
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An extradimensional pocket including it's entrance created by a spell is a spell effect and thus dispellable.
If the entrance is not part of the spell, how is it created then? You cannot have one without the other.