I know what you are all thinking, but hear me out. I know it sounds stupid to spend 10 minutes in the midst of battle to cast one spell, but think about it. I imagine a ritual version of fireball that you use to attack castles during a siege, or you summon a huge elemental monster to take out an army. And for higher level, I think it would be awesome if there were more options at high levels to cast rituals. I just feel there are not enough rituals, ESPECIALLY for combat. You can only use it once in the beginning of a pre-planned battle, but I think that would be awesome and add to player creativity to use that one chance spell. Thoughts?
I understand it is slow, that is why it would have to be an intro to combat. And I appreciate that, but it would just get lost in the great sea that is the homebrew.
Delayed Blast Fireball is kind of this, but I agree, could be fun to brew up some overpowered combat multi-turn spells that devastate entire battle maps.
It's an interesting idea, but I think it might 'unbalance' the game. If your wizard could, say, turn invisible (or figure out one of the numerous ways of being undetected by a group of enemies) and then ritual cast a leveled up fireball, imo, it wouldn't be too difficult to one shot groups of enemies for no cost (except time). This would hugely increase the utility of casters (or anyone with the ritual caster feat).
Not to say don't do it; just be very very careful with the ritual duration and requirements.
Vonkohorn, when casting a spell longer than an action (even if using a ritual cast) it requires your concentration for that casting, so no invisability for you.
--
I like the idea of spells that are more than the current mechanic - which is balanced around the short-tern combat encounter that barely lasts longer than a minute.
I personally wouldn't have it as a ritual - the idea of not using a spell slot for such a big effect seems odd. But it could just have a long casting time , maybe even some spells be "Siege Spells" that are more designed to affect vehicles and buildings or similar structures. Like a shielding spell to protect castles from catapaults and stuff.
Perhaps an option for co-operative casting to reduce the casting time: say if each caster knows the spell they can co-operatively cast, the spell duration is divided amongst the number of such casters, maybe to a minum of 1 minute. Or something.
The spells would be useless in regular battle but could make a "siege" style event something spectacular.
And then, who says 1 min spells can't be used in combat? Perhaps the BBEG is only vulnerable to that one spell, and so the challenge of the encounter is keeping the caster alive and concentrating long enough to release that spell?
I emphatically encourage beyond-the-norm spellcasting. Magic is more than parlour tricks and simple combat.
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I like the idea, but practically it would have to just be a narrative device, I’d think. Otherwise you have the wizard’s player spending every turn saying “I keep casting” while everyone else does stuff. Or you just say you do it, and hand-wave the time while everyone else stands around waiting for it to go off. But it could work like that. You could have a whole quest for the party to find the ancient ritual they’ll need to breach the walls of the castle. Then you give a description of what it takes to cast it and the battle starts. The problem there would be usually in stories these big things drain the wizard pretty badly, so they can’t take part in the fight. To me it might feel anticlimactic if the wizard casts this Uber-powerful ritual spell and then still feels up to charging into the fray. I’d feel like there would need to be a consequence.
I have enjoyed all of you commentary and strong points, and I like the idea of quantifiable actions, aka. mechanics, so what do you all think of this:
A spell caster that can perform a ritual can lower the spell level of a spell by one for each level of casting time it increases, 1 action, 1 reaction, and 1 bonus action, being counted as equal. The caster must have access to the spell, like a scroll but must have all material components to not use up the scroll in the process, while wizard can also use a spell book that has the spell contained. In this way, a spellcaster can cast a higher level spell with the spell slots they have, with the minimum spell slot being 1st level. The levels are 1 action, 1 minute, 10 minutes, 1 hour, 8 hours, 12 hours, and 24 hours.
For example, a 7th level cleric with the resources to do so can cast resurrection if she has all the resources to do so, but it would take her a full 24 hours to do so, using up an entire day.
Or a 5th level wizard could cast fireball at a 5 level power using a 3rd level spell slot, but it would take 1 hour to cast.
The biggest problem I see with it is just the wish spell at 5th level if you are willing to spend 24 hours casting it. The answer to that could either be not let them find the wish spell until they get to 17th level the natural way or you make wish the exception to the rule. This still gives the massive requirements of material components and time is a very valuable resource, as dnd is typically fast paced. So the party sneaks up on the enemy fortress and while the rest of the party gets a short rest, the wizard is casting a powerful fireball to create an back entrance as they storm in, losing the benefits of the rest, so on and so forth.
Vonkohorn, when casting a spell longer than an action (even if using a ritual cast) it requires your concentration for that casting, so no invisability for you.
-
True and always a good note about concentration. But the point was more general, say if another party member turns your caster invisible or say the caster has a Ring of Invisibility.
I imagine a ritual version of fireball that you use to attack castles during a siege, or you summon a huge elemental monster to take out an army.
These are cool scenes, but I wouldn't run either of them with combat mechanics. The combat rules aren't the only way to play out conflicts.
I also think that ultimately this just seems like a way to get around spell slots. If your wizard can pump out a fireball every 10 minutes all day long, it has become vastly more powerful than a wizard playing by the rules. If that is not in fact your goal, then I'd suggest trying a different approach to achieve what you're envisioning. For example, if you want a siege with fireballs raining down all day then you can still do that without changing the rules - you just need a lot of wizards. Maybe there's an order of battle wizards in your world trained to do just this.
I like the idea for NPCs. Personally I consider a lot of the rules to be about PCs and direct interactions with them. Combat rituals would be very useful for background information in a war with the PCs likely never having to actually interact with the casting other than possibly by ambushing the casters.
I think combat rituals would actually be better serving as clutch but not ideal. I’m thinking that the combat rituals, are designed to give versatility and save lives. Nothing is worse than realizing you brought all the wrong spells, so what if combat rituals were a way to bring in a metamagic like effect at the cost of action economy. This could make protecting a caster critical while they optimize their spells to hit the BBEG harder.
I think the cost
Combat Ritual Casting
Combat Ritual- A kind of ritual spell that apples a meta magic or otherwise altering affect to the spells of a caster right before or during combat. Only characters with the ability to cast ritual spells can learn combat rituals. Combat Rituals can be prepared or unprepared. Unprepared use requires an appropriate reference source (such as A wizard’s spell book, a warlock’s grimoire, a special ritual book, or magic item). Combat rituals prepared in this way count against the caster’s prepared spell limit. Combat rituals cost a number of actions in consecutive rounds to cast. Casters retain their bonus action and their speed is halved. The number of consecutive rounds to cast each Combat Ritual is in each description. Combat Rituals that are not prepared require an extra round to reference the material. While casting a ritual spell you are considered concentrating that spell. After Casting the Combat Ritual does not take concentration. Any failure to continually cast the spell by using your action immediately ends the Combat Ritual and it will have to be recast from the beginning. You may only have 1 Combat Ritual per person active at a time. Beginning another Combat Ritual immediately ends previously cast Combat Ritual. Combat Ritual take effect at the begining of the caster’s next after the ritual is completed.
Combat Ritual Examples
Careful Spell Combat Ritual
Casting Time 2 actions
For 1 Minute after the completion of this Combat Ritual. Once per round, when you cast a spell that forces other creatures to make a saving throw, you can protect some of those creatures from the spell’s full force. Choose a number of those creatures up to your Spell casting modifier (minimum of one creature). A chosen creature automatically succeeds on its saving throw against the spell.
Distant Spell Combat Ritual
castong time 1 action
Once per round, when you cast a spell that has a range of 5 feet or greater, you can double the range of the spell.
When you cast a spell that has a range of touch, you can spend 1 sorcery point to make the range of the spell 30 feet.
This effect is limited to spell castings over a 1 min period. Unused charges are lost if not used.
Transmuted Spell Combat Ritual
casting time: 2 action
You choose one type of damage from the following list. You change all spells of that damage type to one of the other listed types: acid, cold, fire, lightning, poison, thunder. This lasts for 1 minute.
michaelsmithcet, you've definitely put some thought into this, and I don't see anything particularly unbalanced in what you've proposed.
My caveats would be :
1. I would be careful about implementing this in a game where someone is playing a sorcerer due to the overlap
2. Make sure you roll in some enemies that make use of this feature.
One thing I like about this is that players or NPC's could attempt to identify the spell a full round before it gets cast which adds some interesting action economy choices. Normally, per XGtE, identifying a spell costs a reaction as the spell is cast, which makes it almost impossible to identify a spell before you decide to counterspell or not.
Then again, I suppose if you see a spell being cast this way, you wouldn't really need to identify it and would almost certainly want to counterspell 😆
I let characters with ritual casting cast any spell they know, even non-ritual spells, at a casting time of 1 hour per level. It hasn't broken anything yet.
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I'm probably laughing.
It is apparently so hard to program Aberrant Mind and Clockwork Soul spell-swapping into dndbeyond they had to remake the game without it rather than implement it.
Welcome to what epic level rituals were all about in earlier editions - might I suggest you go back and read the rules for them in the epic level handbook and work forward to 5e from that base.
1) I think it could be distinct enough, plus it makes sorcerers even more “amazing” because metamagic normally takes extensive rituals. I would limit the ones I give out to helpful metamagics the sorcerer isn’t going to pick up. since it relays on finding an object or the spells, I think it would be easy to cherry pick the ones that would help instead of hurt.
2) the BEST way to introduce the mechanics would be to have an enemy use the combat ritual against them and then find one or two as a reward.
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I know what you are all thinking, but hear me out. I know it sounds stupid to spend 10 minutes in the midst of battle to cast one spell, but think about it. I imagine a ritual version of fireball that you use to attack castles during a siege, or you summon a huge elemental monster to take out an army. And for higher level, I think it would be awesome if there were more options at high levels to cast rituals. I just feel there are not enough rituals, ESPECIALLY for combat. You can only use it once in the beginning of a pre-planned battle, but I think that would be awesome and add to player creativity to use that one chance spell. Thoughts?
There are not a lot of ritual spells for combat because combat moves quickly and rituals move slowly.
Your massive fireball ritual spell sounds fun. You should make it.
"Not all those who wander are lost"
I understand it is slow, that is why it would have to be an intro to combat. And I appreciate that, but it would just get lost in the great sea that is the homebrew.
Delayed Blast Fireball is kind of this, but I agree, could be fun to brew up some overpowered combat multi-turn spells that devastate entire battle maps.
dndbeyond.com forum tags
I'm going to make this way harder than it needs to be.
Lyxen, I love the battle ritual idea. Gives me an idea for a whole rule.
This could also be an interesting encounter for a party...fight their way through a battlefield to stop the evil archmage from finishing the ritual.
It's an interesting idea, but I think it might 'unbalance' the game. If your wizard could, say, turn invisible (or figure out one of the numerous ways of being undetected by a group of enemies) and then ritual cast a leveled up fireball, imo, it wouldn't be too difficult to one shot groups of enemies for no cost (except time). This would hugely increase the utility of casters (or anyone with the ritual caster feat).
Not to say don't do it; just be very very careful with the ritual duration and requirements.
Vonkohorn, when casting a spell longer than an action (even if using a ritual cast) it requires your concentration for that casting, so no invisability for you.
--
I like the idea of spells that are more than the current mechanic - which is balanced around the short-tern combat encounter that barely lasts longer than a minute.
I personally wouldn't have it as a ritual - the idea of not using a spell slot for such a big effect seems odd. But it could just have a long casting time , maybe even some spells be "Siege Spells" that are more designed to affect vehicles and buildings or similar structures. Like a shielding spell to protect castles from catapaults and stuff.
Perhaps an option for co-operative casting to reduce the casting time: say if each caster knows the spell they can co-operatively cast, the spell duration is divided amongst the number of such casters, maybe to a minum of 1 minute. Or something.
The spells would be useless in regular battle but could make a "siege" style event something spectacular.
And then, who says 1 min spells can't be used in combat? Perhaps the BBEG is only vulnerable to that one spell, and so the challenge of the encounter is keeping the caster alive and concentrating long enough to release that spell?
I emphatically encourage beyond-the-norm spellcasting. Magic is more than parlour tricks and simple combat.
Click ✨ HERE ✨ For My Youtube Videos featuring Guides, Tips & Tricks for using D&D Beyond.
Need help with Homebrew? Check out ✨ this FAQ/Guide thread ✨ by IamSposta.
I like the idea, but practically it would have to just be a narrative device, I’d think. Otherwise you have the wizard’s player spending every turn saying “I keep casting” while everyone else does stuff. Or you just say you do it, and hand-wave the time while everyone else stands around waiting for it to go off.
But it could work like that. You could have a whole quest for the party to find the ancient ritual they’ll need to breach the walls of the castle. Then you give a description of what it takes to cast it and the battle starts.
The problem there would be usually in stories these big things drain the wizard pretty badly, so they can’t take part in the fight. To me it might feel anticlimactic if the wizard casts this Uber-powerful ritual spell and then still feels up to charging into the fray. I’d feel like there would need to be a consequence.
I have enjoyed all of you commentary and strong points, and I like the idea of quantifiable actions, aka. mechanics, so what do you all think of this:
A spell caster that can perform a ritual can lower the spell level of a spell by one for each level of casting time it increases, 1 action, 1 reaction, and 1 bonus action, being counted as equal. The caster must have access to the spell, like a scroll but must have all material components to not use up the scroll in the process, while wizard can also use a spell book that has the spell contained. In this way, a spellcaster can cast a higher level spell with the spell slots they have, with the minimum spell slot being 1st level. The levels are 1 action, 1 minute, 10 minutes, 1 hour, 8 hours, 12 hours, and 24 hours.
For example, a 7th level cleric with the resources to do so can cast resurrection if she has all the resources to do so, but it would take her a full 24 hours to do so, using up an entire day.
Or a 5th level wizard could cast fireball at a 5 level power using a 3rd level spell slot, but it would take 1 hour to cast.
The biggest problem I see with it is just the wish spell at 5th level if you are willing to spend 24 hours casting it. The answer to that could either be not let them find the wish spell until they get to 17th level the natural way or you make wish the exception to the rule. This still gives the massive requirements of material components and time is a very valuable resource, as dnd is typically fast paced. So the party sneaks up on the enemy fortress and while the rest of the party gets a short rest, the wizard is casting a powerful fireball to create an back entrance as they storm in, losing the benefits of the rest, so on and so forth.
Thoughts?
No.
dndbeyond.com forum tags
I'm going to make this way harder than it needs to be.
True and always a good note about concentration. But the point was more general, say if another party member turns your caster invisible or say the caster has a Ring of Invisibility.
These are cool scenes, but I wouldn't run either of them with combat mechanics. The combat rules aren't the only way to play out conflicts.
I also think that ultimately this just seems like a way to get around spell slots. If your wizard can pump out a fireball every 10 minutes all day long, it has become vastly more powerful than a wizard playing by the rules. If that is not in fact your goal, then I'd suggest trying a different approach to achieve what you're envisioning. For example, if you want a siege with fireballs raining down all day then you can still do that without changing the rules - you just need a lot of wizards. Maybe there's an order of battle wizards in your world trained to do just this.
My homebrew subclasses (full list here)
(Artificer) Swordmage | Glasswright | (Barbarian) Path of the Savage Embrace
(Bard) College of Dance | (Fighter) Warlord | Cannoneer
(Monk) Way of the Elements | (Ranger) Blade Dancer
(Rogue) DaggerMaster | Inquisitor | (Sorcerer) Riftwalker | Spellfist
(Warlock) The Swarm
I like the idea for NPCs. Personally I consider a lot of the rules to be about PCs and direct interactions with them. Combat rituals would be very useful for background information in a war with the PCs likely never having to actually interact with the casting other than possibly by ambushing the casters.
I think combat rituals would actually be better serving as clutch but not ideal. I’m thinking that the combat rituals, are designed to give versatility and save lives. Nothing is worse than realizing you brought all the wrong spells, so what if combat rituals were a way to bring in a metamagic like effect at the cost of action economy. This could make protecting a caster critical while they optimize their spells to hit the BBEG harder.
I think the cost
Combat Ritual Casting
Combat Ritual- A kind of ritual spell that apples a meta magic or otherwise altering affect to the spells of a caster right before or during combat. Only characters with the ability to cast ritual spells can learn combat rituals. Combat Rituals can be prepared or unprepared. Unprepared use requires an appropriate reference source (such as A wizard’s spell book, a warlock’s grimoire, a special ritual book, or magic item). Combat rituals prepared in this way count against the caster’s prepared spell limit. Combat rituals cost a number of actions in consecutive rounds to cast. Casters retain their bonus action and their speed is halved. The number of consecutive rounds to cast each Combat Ritual is in each description. Combat Rituals that are not prepared require an extra round to reference the material. While casting a ritual spell you are considered concentrating that spell. After Casting the Combat Ritual does not take concentration. Any failure to continually cast the spell by using your action immediately ends the Combat Ritual and it will have to be recast from the beginning. You may only have 1 Combat Ritual per person active at a time. Beginning another Combat Ritual immediately ends previously cast Combat Ritual. Combat Ritual take effect at the begining of the caster’s next after the ritual is completed.
Combat Ritual Examples
Careful Spell Combat Ritual
Casting Time 2 actions
For 1 Minute after the completion of this Combat Ritual. Once per round, when you cast a spell that forces other creatures to make a saving throw, you can protect some of those creatures from the spell’s full force. Choose a number of those creatures up to your Spell casting modifier (minimum of one creature). A chosen creature automatically succeeds on its saving throw against the spell.
Distant Spell Combat Ritual
castong time 1 action
Once per round, when you cast a spell that has a range of 5 feet or greater, you can double the range of the spell.
When you cast a spell that has a range of touch, you can spend 1 sorcery point to make the range of the spell 30 feet.
This effect is limited to spell castings over a 1 min period. Unused charges are lost if not used.
Transmuted Spell Combat Ritual
casting time: 2 action
You choose one type of damage from the following list. You change all spells of that damage type to one of the other listed types: acid, cold, fire, lightning, poison, thunder. This lasts for 1 minute.
michaelsmithcet, you've definitely put some thought into this, and I don't see anything particularly unbalanced in what you've proposed.
My caveats would be :
1. I would be careful about implementing this in a game where someone is playing a sorcerer due to the overlap
2. Make sure you roll in some enemies that make use of this feature.
One thing I like about this is that players or NPC's could attempt to identify the spell a full round before it gets cast which adds some interesting action economy choices. Normally, per XGtE, identifying a spell costs a reaction as the spell is cast, which makes it almost impossible to identify a spell before you decide to counterspell or not.
Then again, I suppose if you see a spell being cast this way, you wouldn't really need to identify it and would almost certainly want to counterspell 😆
I let characters with ritual casting cast any spell they know, even non-ritual spells, at a casting time of 1 hour per level. It hasn't broken anything yet.
I'm probably laughing.
It is apparently so hard to program Aberrant Mind and Clockwork Soul spell-swapping into dndbeyond they had to remake the game without it rather than implement it.
Welcome to what epic level rituals were all about in earlier editions - might I suggest you go back and read the rules for them in the epic level handbook and work forward to 5e from that base.
Wisea$$ DM and Player since 1979.
1) I think it could be distinct enough, plus it makes sorcerers even more “amazing” because metamagic normally takes extensive rituals. I would limit the ones I give out to helpful metamagics the sorcerer isn’t going to pick up. since it relays on finding an object or the spells, I think it would be easy to cherry pick the ones that would help instead of hurt.
2) the BEST way to introduce the mechanics would be to have an enemy use the combat ritual against them and then find one or two as a reward.