So, I’m currently playing on a westmarches server and my main character is a Level 8 Bladesinging Wizard. Mostly focused to be a gish fighter thanks to the Extra Attack errata. Haste is one of his main go to spells and rarely drops conc thanks to bladesong. My character has recently purchased a pair of Winged Boots. So here lies my question and my explanation. Would Haste + Winged Boots result in quadruple the flying speed for the boots? Winged Boots as a base gives you a flying speed equal to your walking speed. Your walking speed is doubled by haste meaning your base flying speed, then haste effects all of your speeds. Which should in turn double that flying speed again.
For instance my boy in bladesong has a 40 foot walking speed so with the boots has a 40 foot flying speed. I self cast haste now. My walking speed doubles to 80, so now I should have a base 80 foot flying speed. Haste then applies to my new base flying speed of 80 and makes it 160.
Winged Boots - While you wear these boots, you have a flying speed equal to your walking speed.
Haste - Until the spell ends, the target's speed is doubled.
Bladesong - increases your walking speed increases by 10 feet.
So.... I'm kind of confused as to where you are getting quadruple speed from.... For most races the boots will give you a flying speed of 30 and Haste will double that to 60, or 40 and 80 when using Bladesong.
a) you'd be gaining the effect twice so no to your circular reference.
b) real issue imo, is that there's no RAW order of operations math (or defined Base Speed vs Adjusted Speed definitions) - i always go the 'multiple first then add route' as the other way gives you even more stupid speeds and goes against IRL logic.
Your logic seems to apply haste twice, which is definitely not the intent of the spell nor the RAW.
The boots give you a flying speed equal to your walking speed. That is a fact that isn't overridden by Haste. the math is always walking = flying. So if walking doubles, then flying doubles, but you don't then get to also double flying again because the speeds always have to equal each other:
So normally: x(walking) = y(flying)
Under haste: 2x(walking) = 2y(flying)
whether you add the + 10 from bladesong before or after the doubling would (to me) be based on the order the effects were applied.
Winged Boots - While you wear these boots, you have a flying speed equal to your walking speed.
Haste - Until the spell ends, the target's speed is doubled.
Bladesong - increases your walking speed increases by 10 feet.
So.... I'm kind of confused as to where you are getting quadruple speed from.... For most races the boots will give you a flying speed of 30 and Haste will double that to 60, or 40 and 80 when using Bladesong.
Base Walking Speed- 30
Bladesong- +10 Walking Speed
Winged Boots Base Flying Speed- 40
[cast Haste]
Hasted Walking Speed- 80ft
Winged Boots Base Flying Speed- 80ft
Hasted Winged Boots Speed- 160ft
This is what I’m asking about the interaction since Haste applies to all speeds. Walking and Flying.
Winged Boots - While you wear these boots, you have a flying speed equal to your walking speed.
Winged Boots - While you wear these boots, you have a flying speed equal to your walking speed.
Haste - Until the spell ends, the target's speed is doubled.
Bladesong - increases your walking speed increases by 10 feet.
So.... I'm kind of confused as to where you are getting quadruple speed from.... For most races the boots will give you a flying speed of 30 and Haste will double that to 60, or 40 and 80 when using Bladesong.
Base Walking Speed- 30
Bladesong- +10 Walking Speed
Winged Boots Base Flying Speed- 40
[cast Haste]
Hasted Walking Speed- 80ft
Winged Boots Base Flying Speed- 80ft
Hasted Winged Boots Speed- 160ft
This is what I’m asking about the interaction since Haste applies to all speeds. Walking and Flying.
Winged Boots - While you wear these boots, you have a flying speed equal to your walking speed.
160 does not equal 80. you are breaking the rule of Winged Boots.
Here is the application: if you apply winged boots first:
You have a walking speed of 30, and you gain a flying speed of 30. 30=30 so the rule of winged boots is met (flying equals walking)
Then you cast Haste...these speeds double. walking becomes 60, so does flying. both speeds have doubled (rules of haste are met) and the rule of winged boots is met (60 flying = 60 walking)
If you then double the flying speed again as you say, the rule of Haste is broken (flying has quadrupled from its original score.) and the rule of winged boots is broken (120 flying =/= 60 walking). So your interpretation is wrong on both counts
This is what I’m asking about the interaction since Haste applies to all speeds. Walking and Flying.
Winged Boots - While you wear these boots, you have a flying speed equal to your walking speed.
just spell out the math on paper...if you have to write down the number twice for one effect (which you are), its definitely wrong.
(30+10)*2= 80 Walking Speed
Winged Boots = Walking Speed (80)
80*2= 160 Flying Speed
Again, you are applying the effect of Haste twice, which is not RAW, and you are ignoring the rule for Winged Boots that "you gain a flying speed equal to your walking speed" you are continuing to argue that 160 equals 80....its not.
The real equation is:
Walking Speed = 40
Winged Boots = 40 (equal to Walking Speed)
Then you do Haste one time on each speed: making 80 walking/80 flying. This is the proper application of Haste, and follows the rule of Winged Boots that Flying speed equals walking speed
This is what I’m asking about the interaction since Haste applies to all speeds. Walking and Flying.
Winged Boots - While you wear these boots, you have a flying speed equal to your walking speed.
just spell out the math on paper...if you have to write down the number twice for one effect (which you are), its definitely wrong.
(30+10)*2= 80 Walking Speed
Winged Boots = Walking Speed (80)
80*2= 160 Flying Speed
Again, you are applying the effect of Haste twice, which is not RAW, and you are ignoring the rule for Winged Boots that "you gain a flying speed equal to your walking speed" you are continuing to argue that 160 equals 80....its not.
The real equation is:
Walking Speed = 40
Winged Boots = 40 (equal to Walking Speed)
Then you do Haste one time on each speed: making 80 walking/80 flying. This is the proper application of Haste, and follows the rule of Winged Boots that Flying speed equals walking speed
See Haste applies to both speeds. Walking becomes 80 and then Boots equals to the new walking speed of 80 haste should apply now to my flying speed making it 160. It’s not doubling the effect twice intentionally but RAW that’s how it should be working.
See Haste applies to both speeds. Walking becomes 80 and then Boots equals to the new walking speed of 80 haste should apply now to my flying speed making it 160. It’s not doubling the effect twice intentionally but RAW that’s how it should be working.
again, stick it in a formula on a piece of paper and you'll see your error.
This is what I’m asking about the interaction since Haste applies to all speeds. Walking and Flying.
Winged Boots - While you wear these boots, you have a flying speed equal to your walking speed.
just spell out the math on paper...if you have to write down the number twice for one effect (which you are), its definitely wrong.
(30+10)*2= 80 Walking Speed
Winged Boots = Walking Speed (80)
80*2= 160 Flying Speed
Again, you are applying the effect of Haste twice, which is not RAW, and you are ignoring the rule for Winged Boots that "you gain a flying speed equal to your walking speed" you are continuing to argue that 160 equals 80....its not.
The real equation is:
Walking Speed = 40
Winged Boots = 40 (equal to Walking Speed)
Then you do Haste one time on each speed: making 80 walking/80 flying. This is the proper application of Haste, and follows the rule of Winged Boots that Flying speed equals walking speed
See Haste applies to both speeds. Walking becomes 80 and then Boots equals to the new walking speed of 80 haste should apply now to my flying speed making it 160. It’s not doubling the effect twice intentionally but RAW that’s how it should be working.
When every single person is telling you no, perhaps you should stop and think. Haste does not get applied twice, only once. Your flying speed of 30 is identical to your walking speed of 30. Haste is applied once, raising both to 60. There is some debate as to where the +10 from Bladesong gets added. BUT you do not get to add Haste TWICE. Read te rule book, it has sections that specifically explain spell effects stacking.
This is what I’m asking about the interaction since Haste applies to all speeds. Walking and Flying.
Winged Boots - While you wear these boots, you have a flying speed equal to your walking speed.
just spell out the math on paper...if you have to write down the number twice for one effect (which you are), its definitely wrong.
(30+10)*2= 80 Walking Speed
Winged Boots = Walking Speed (80)
80*2= 160 Flying Speed
Again, you are applying the effect of Haste twice, which is not RAW, and you are ignoring the rule for Winged Boots that "you gain a flying speed equal to your walking speed" you are continuing to argue that 160 equals 80....its not.
The real equation is:
Walking Speed = 40
Winged Boots = 40 (equal to Walking Speed)
Then you do Haste one time on each speed: making 80 walking/80 flying. This is the proper application of Haste, and follows the rule of Winged Boots that Flying speed equals walking speed
See Haste applies to both speeds. Walking becomes 80 and then Boots equals to the new walking speed of 80 haste should apply now to my flying speed making it 160. It’s not doubling the effect twice intentionally but RAW that’s how it should be working.
When you say "Haste applies to both speeds" you are thinking they are separate speeds ergo the error that both receive the speed boost and then can add together. They are not- the Flying speed is a function of base walking speed, it's not independent of it. So with Winged Boots, Haste and Bladesong you will have a walking speed of 80 ((30 Base + 10 Bladesong) * 2) and a Flying speed that matches this walking speed.
This is what I’m asking about the interaction since Haste applies to all speeds. Walking and Flying.
Winged Boots - While you wear these boots, you have a flying speed equal to your walking speed.
just spell out the math on paper...if you have to write down the number twice for one effect (which you are), its definitely wrong.
(30+10)*2= 80 Walking Speed
Winged Boots = Walking Speed (80)
80*2= 160 Flying Speed
Again, you are applying the effect of Haste twice, which is not RAW, and you are ignoring the rule for Winged Boots that "you gain a flying speed equal to your walking speed" you are continuing to argue that 160 equals 80....its not.
The real equation is:
Walking Speed = 40
Winged Boots = 40 (equal to Walking Speed)
Then you do Haste one time on each speed: making 80 walking/80 flying. This is the proper application of Haste, and follows the rule of Winged Boots that Flying speed equals walking speed
See Haste applies to both speeds. Walking becomes 80 and then Boots equals to the new walking speed of 80 haste should apply now to my flying speed making it 160. It’s not doubling the effect twice intentionally but RAW that’s how it should be working.
You have yet to address either issue. You are not addressing the issue that the Winged Boots give you a speed equal to your walking speed. You cannot have a flying speed unequal to your walking speed if your flying speed is being granted by the boots. Haste does not override this, because the rules of haste can be applied to your flying speed without coming into conflict with the rules for the boots.
Haste is not an additive equation, it is two separate equations either applied at the same time, or one right after the other, in accordance with the below:
1) If you apply the boots first, then the haste equations are:
(40)Walking x2 = (80) Hasted Walking, and (40) Flying x2 = (80) Hasted Flying. Haste is applied once each time to each speed. The end result meets the requirements of Haste (doubled speed) and the requirements of the boots (Flying equal to Walking), and therefore meets RAW.
2) If you apply Haste First, then the equations are:
(40) Walking x2 = 80 (Hasted Walking), and then the boots grant an equal flying speed of 80. Haste is applied once to the original speed. the end result meets the requirements of Haste (doubled speed) and the requirements of the boots (Flying equal to Walking), and therefore meets RAW.
Your method applies Haste twice (not RAW) and has a flying speed result that is quadrupled instead of doubled (not RAW per Haste) and not equal to walking (not RAW per Winged Boots). It isn't RAW, and no DM worth their salt would allow it.
While you wear these boots, you have a flying speed equal to your walking speed.
So, regardless of your maths, the flying speed would still be 80 because that is your walking speed - this is irrespective of what your flying speed was before you put on the boots, or any magic that might modify only your flying speed.
If flying speed is equal to your walking speed the only way to fly 160 is to get your walking speed to 160 which you can’t in your scenario.
haste has no effect on the boots. You do not have a flying speed to double. You, as the PC, only have a walking speed (Unless you are a flying race). The boots give you a flying speed but you are not hasting your boots you are Hasting yourself (target is a creature not an object) so only your walking speed is affected. Then the boots translates that speed to a flying speed (you don’t double what you already doubled).
So, I’m currently playing on a westmarches server and my main character is a Level 8 Bladesinging Wizard. Mostly focused to be a gish fighter thanks to the Extra Attack errata. Haste is one of his main go to spells and rarely drops conc thanks to bladesong. My character has recently purchased a pair of Winged Boots. So here lies my question and my explanation. Would Haste + Winged Boots result in quadruple the flying speed for the boots? Winged Boots as a base gives you a flying speed equal to your walking speed. Your walking speed is doubled by haste meaning your base flying speed, then haste effects all of your speeds. Which should in turn double that flying speed again.
For instance my boy in bladesong has a 40 foot walking speed so with the boots has a 40 foot flying speed. I self cast haste now. My walking speed doubles to 80, so now I should have a base 80 foot flying speed. Haste then applies to my new base flying speed of 80 and makes it 160.
Is this how these interactions would work RAW?
Winged Boots - While you wear these boots, you have a flying speed equal to your walking speed.
Haste - Until the spell ends, the target's speed is doubled.
Bladesong - increases your walking speed increases by 10 feet.
So.... I'm kind of confused as to where you are getting quadruple speed from.... For most races the boots will give you a flying speed of 30 and Haste will double that to 60, or 40 and 80 when using Bladesong.
a) you'd be gaining the effect twice so no to your circular reference.
b) real issue imo, is that there's no RAW order of operations math (or defined Base Speed vs Adjusted Speed definitions) - i always go the 'multiple first then add route' as the other way gives you even more stupid speeds and goes against IRL logic.
so (30*2)+10=70 .... not (30+10)*2=80
Guide to the Five Factions (PWYW)
Deck of Decks
I see why you think that. Most DMs would say no.
Forgot to quote, so quoted and can’t seem to delete this so here this is.
Your logic seems to apply haste twice, which is definitely not the intent of the spell nor the RAW.
The boots give you a flying speed equal to your walking speed. That is a fact that isn't overridden by Haste. the math is always walking = flying. So if walking doubles, then flying doubles, but you don't then get to also double flying again because the speeds always have to equal each other:
So normally: x(walking) = y(flying)
Under haste: 2x(walking) = 2y(flying)
whether you add the + 10 from bladesong before or after the doubling would (to me) be based on the order the effects were applied.
Base Walking Speed- 30
Bladesong- +10 Walking Speed
Winged Boots Base Flying Speed- 40
[cast Haste]
Hasted Walking Speed- 80ft
Winged Boots Base Flying Speed- 80ft
Hasted Winged Boots Speed- 160ft
This is what I’m asking about the interaction since Haste applies to all speeds. Walking and Flying.
Winged Boots - While you wear these boots, you have a flying speed equal to your walking speed.
160 does not equal 80. you are breaking the rule of Winged Boots.
Here is the application: if you apply winged boots first:
You have a walking speed of 30, and you gain a flying speed of 30. 30=30 so the rule of winged boots is met (flying equals walking)
Then you cast Haste...these speeds double. walking becomes 60, so does flying. both speeds have doubled (rules of haste are met) and the rule of winged boots is met (60 flying = 60 walking)
If you then double the flying speed again as you say, the rule of Haste is broken (flying has quadrupled from its original score.) and the rule of winged boots is broken (120 flying =/= 60 walking). So your interpretation is wrong on both counts
just spell out the math on paper...if you have to write down the number twice for one effect (which you are), its definitely wrong.
Guide to the Five Factions (PWYW)
Deck of Decks
(30+10)*2= 80 Walking Speed
Winged Boots = Walking Speed (80)
80*2= 160 Flying Speed
Again, you are applying the effect of Haste twice, which is not RAW, and you are ignoring the rule for Winged Boots that "you gain a flying speed equal to your walking speed" you are continuing to argue that 160 equals 80....its not.
The real equation is:
Walking Speed = 40
Winged Boots = 40 (equal to Walking Speed)
Then you do Haste one time on each speed: making 80 walking/80 flying. This is the proper application of Haste, and follows the rule of Winged Boots that Flying speed equals walking speed
See Haste applies to both speeds. Walking becomes 80 and then Boots equals to the new walking speed of 80 haste should apply now to my flying speed making it 160. It’s not doubling the effect twice intentionally but RAW that’s how it should be working.
again, stick it in a formula on a piece of paper and you'll see your error.
Guide to the Five Factions (PWYW)
Deck of Decks
When every single person is telling you no, perhaps you should stop and think. Haste does not get applied twice, only once. Your flying speed of 30 is identical to your walking speed of 30. Haste is applied once, raising both to 60. There is some debate as to where the +10 from Bladesong gets added. BUT you do not get to add Haste TWICE. Read te rule book, it has sections that specifically explain spell effects stacking.
When you say "Haste applies to both speeds" you are thinking they are separate speeds ergo the error that both receive the speed boost and then can add together. They are not- the Flying speed is a function of base walking speed, it's not independent of it. So with Winged Boots, Haste and Bladesong you will have a walking speed of 80 ((30 Base + 10 Bladesong) * 2) and a Flying speed that matches this walking speed.
You have yet to address either issue. You are not addressing the issue that the Winged Boots give you a speed equal to your walking speed. You cannot have a flying speed unequal to your walking speed if your flying speed is being granted by the boots. Haste does not override this, because the rules of haste can be applied to your flying speed without coming into conflict with the rules for the boots.
Haste is not an additive equation, it is two separate equations either applied at the same time, or one right after the other, in accordance with the below:
1) If you apply the boots first, then the haste equations are:
(40)Walking x2 = (80) Hasted Walking, and (40) Flying x2 = (80) Hasted Flying. Haste is applied once each time to each speed. The end result meets the requirements of Haste (doubled speed) and the requirements of the boots (Flying equal to Walking), and therefore meets RAW.
2) If you apply Haste First, then the equations are:
(40) Walking x2 = 80 (Hasted Walking), and then the boots grant an equal flying speed of 80. Haste is applied once to the original speed. the end result meets the requirements of Haste (doubled speed) and the requirements of the boots (Flying equal to Walking), and therefore meets RAW.
Your method applies Haste twice (not RAW) and has a flying speed result that is quadrupled instead of doubled (not RAW per Haste) and not equal to walking (not RAW per Winged Boots). It isn't RAW, and no DM worth their salt would allow it.
Note the wording of Winged Boots:
So, regardless of your maths, the flying speed would still be 80 because that is your walking speed - this is irrespective of what your flying speed was before you put on the boots, or any magic that might modify only your flying speed.
If flying speed is equal to your walking speed the only way to fly 160 is to get your walking speed to 160 which you can’t in your scenario.
haste has no effect on the boots. You do not have a flying speed to double. You, as the PC, only have a walking speed (Unless you are a flying race). The boots give you a flying speed but you are not hasting your boots you are Hasting yourself (target is a creature not an object) so only your walking speed is affected. Then the boots translates that speed to a flying speed (you don’t double what you already doubled).
EZD6 by DM Scotty
https://www.drivethrurpg.com/en/product/397599/EZD6-Core-Rulebook?
Heres how you can work it out. You have a walking speed of 30, a +10 bonus to speed, a ×2 bonus to speed, and flying speed=walking speed.
Each of these effects apply only once each.
On the bright side, you can use Haste's extra action to Dash and achieve that 160 feet.
My homebrew subclasses (full list here)
(Artificer) Swordmage | Glasswright | (Barbarian) Path of the Savage Embrace
(Bard) College of Dance | (Fighter) Warlord | Cannoneer
(Monk) Way of the Elements | (Ranger) Blade Dancer
(Rogue) DaggerMaster | Inquisitor | (Sorcerer) Riftwalker | Spellfist
(Warlock) The Swarm