We all know water can't be magically created in someone's lungs to kill them. But what if it was to be done the old fashioned way. Hold person, wait for them to exhale then cover their mouth and nose, wait until they will need to gasp for air then when they do have your waterskin ready to fill their mouth with clear refreshing unbreathable water. What would happen? Would they get a chance to cough or due to paralysis are they just done? This wouldn't really be done in the middle of a big combat but for an assassination mission or the final enemy this could be brutal. Looking forward to hearing thoughts.
I think any time you attempt to bypass the normal hitpoint system, especially with the intention of killing a character, you're taking part in an activity that is more story-based than gameplay-based.
This is a bit dark but hey, it's a game about going into monsters' homes, killing them and taking their stuff, so why not.
Assuming that the scenario is that the victim is held by one or two people and then a third is trying to drown them, I would have:
Constitution saves to cough up the water. They'd have as many rounds as their con modifier (minimum 1) to cough it up.
Contested strength checks to break free from being held. I'd give the holders disadvantage as soon as the water goes in because the victim is going to be fighting for their life. If they break free then they can cough up the water.
A chance of revival. People can cough up water and start breathing again several minutes after they asphyxiate. If the party gets sloppy and walks away early, the victim could stabilize.
Noise - the victim will be kicking and flailing, so anyone else in the building might hear the struggle. not great for a stealthy approach.
Also, if they try this on a BBEG - the DM should avoid letting this happen. Usually BBEG's have some form of magic or are very strong, so could overpower or magic their way out of the situation. They will also have minions and guards, so someone should come along to help the BBEG.
As a DM I'd add suspense by making them think they succeeded, distract them with guards/minions to fight, then having the BBEG suddenly cough out a lung full of water a few turns later and stand up. BBEG's should have some form of plot armour
For hold person, I would give them a chance to break free each turn through survival instincts - being held is one thing, held and drowned is quite another.
They are clearly still able to breathe if paralyzed, or they would suffocate, so coughing would still be an option.
As TexasDevin said, this is more of a story-driven activity than a combat one, so the DM should work out how to react to its success. This is (technically) no different to using hold person to then chop the targets head off, which is a perfectly reasonable thing to try to do but should be tackled through storytelling.
If I were a DM where this happened I'd incorporate it into the story. The BBEG is slain and the heroes return to the king who asked them to kill him, only to find the king dead in his chambers, apparently drowned, with a note that says "thanks for the idea". BBEG is still at large.
I would use the Suffocating rules. A creature can hold its breath for a number of minutes equal to 1 + its Constitution modifier (minimum of 30 seconds). And Hold person rules. Wisdom save at end of each of its turns. So the victim has at least 5 rounds to make a wisdom save before the suffocating rules take affect.
I would use the Suffocating rules. A creature can hold its breath for a number of minutes equal to 1 + its Constitution modifier (minimum of 30 seconds). And Hold person rules. Wisdom save at end of each of its turns. So the victim has at least 5 rounds to make a wisdom save before the suffocating rules take affect.
Well my plan A would be to discourage my presumably good/neutral party from torture. But putting morals aside for a second it seems awfully safer to just spend 1-2 rounds tying them up first. Once that is done you drop out of combat rules and handle it narratively.
We all know water can't be magically created in someone's lungs to kill them. But what if it was to be done the old fashioned way. Hold person, wait for them to exhale then cover their mouth and nose, wait until they will need to gasp for air then when they do have your waterskin ready to fill their mouth with clear refreshing unbreathable water. What would happen? Would they get a chance to cough or due to paralysis are they just done? This wouldn't really be done in the middle of a big combat but for an assassination mission or the final enemy this could be brutal. Looking forward to hearing thoughts.
I think any time you attempt to bypass the normal hitpoint system, especially with the intention of killing a character, you're taking part in an activity that is more story-based than gameplay-based.
"Not all those who wander are lost"
This is a bit dark but hey, it's a game about going into monsters' homes, killing them and taking their stuff, so why not.
Assuming that the scenario is that the victim is held by one or two people and then a third is trying to drown them, I would have:
Constitution saves to cough up the water. They'd have as many rounds as their con modifier (minimum 1) to cough it up.
Contested strength checks to break free from being held. I'd give the holders disadvantage as soon as the water goes in because the victim is going to be fighting for their life. If they break free then they can cough up the water.
A chance of revival. People can cough up water and start breathing again several minutes after they asphyxiate. If the party gets sloppy and walks away early, the victim could stabilize.
Noise - the victim will be kicking and flailing, so anyone else in the building might hear the struggle. not great for a stealthy approach.
Also, if they try this on a BBEG - the DM should avoid letting this happen. Usually BBEG's have some form of magic or are very strong, so could overpower or magic their way out of the situation. They will also have minions and guards, so someone should come along to help the BBEG.
As a DM I'd add suspense by making them think they succeeded, distract them with guards/minions to fight, then having the BBEG suddenly cough out a lung full of water a few turns later and stand up. BBEG's should have some form of plot armour
Make your Artificer work with any other class with 174 Multiclassing Feats for your Artificer Multiclass Character!
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Very fair I like that response. What are your thoughts if it were the Hold person spell as that induces paralysis.
For hold person, I would give them a chance to break free each turn through survival instincts - being held is one thing, held and drowned is quite another.
They are clearly still able to breathe if paralyzed, or they would suffocate, so coughing would still be an option.
As TexasDevin said, this is more of a story-driven activity than a combat one, so the DM should work out how to react to its success. This is (technically) no different to using hold person to then chop the targets head off, which is a perfectly reasonable thing to try to do but should be tackled through storytelling.
If I were a DM where this happened I'd incorporate it into the story. The BBEG is slain and the heroes return to the king who asked them to kill him, only to find the king dead in his chambers, apparently drowned, with a note that says "thanks for the idea". BBEG is still at large.
Make your Artificer work with any other class with 174 Multiclassing Feats for your Artificer Multiclass Character!
DM's Guild Releases on This Thread Or check them all out on DMs Guild!
DrivethruRPG Releases on This Thread - latest release: My Character is a Werewolf: balanced rules for Lycanthropy!
I have started discussing/reviewing 3rd party D&D content on Substack - stay tuned for semi-regular posts!
I really like that "thanks for the idea" thing that's wonderful! That pretty much covers what I was wondering thanks a bunch. :)
I would use the Suffocating rules. A creature can hold its breath for a number of minutes equal to 1 + its Constitution modifier (minimum of 30 seconds). And Hold person rules. Wisdom save at end of each of its turns. So the victim has at least 5 rounds to make a wisdom save before the suffocating rules take affect.
No Gaming is Better than Bad Gaming.
Yeah, I'd use this too.
Well my plan A would be to discourage my presumably good/neutral party from torture. But putting morals aside for a second it seems awfully safer to just spend 1-2 rounds tying them up first. Once that is done you drop out of combat rules and handle it narratively.
My homebrew subclasses (full list here)
(Artificer) Swordmage | Glasswright | (Barbarian) Path of the Savage Embrace
(Bard) College of Dance | (Fighter) Warlord | Cannoneer
(Monk) Way of the Elements | (Ranger) Blade Dancer
(Rogue) DaggerMaster | Inquisitor | (Sorcerer) Riftwalker | Spellfist
(Warlock) The Swarm
If you're able to restrain someone long enough for that to work then you're probably already out of combat. So, if I were DMing it, I'd allow it.
If you're trying to down someone in combat, remember that a round is 6 seconds and most characters can hold their breath for about a minute