It’s not explicitly that anywhere in the PHB, where actual RULES are to be found, the SAC is meaningless when discussing RAW. Whatever, you either get it or you don’t, you can lead a horse to water etc etc
It is in the PHB, and it has been quoted for you, you've just ignored it. You're chronically stuck on the wrong details.
PHB pg7: specific rules take precedence over general rules.
Specific Beats General
This book contains rules, especially in parts 2 and 3, that govern how the game plays. That said, many racial traits, class features, spells, magic items, monster abilities, and other game elements break the general rules in some way, creating an exception to how the rest of the game works. Remember this: If a specific rule contradicts a general rule, the specific rule wins.
Exceptions to the rules are often minor. For instance, many adventurers don’t have proficiency with longbows, but every wood elf does because of a racial trait. That trait creates a minor exception in the game. Other examples of rule-breaking are more conspicuous. For instance, an adventurer can’t normally pass through walls, but some spells make that possible. Magic accounts for most of the major exceptions to the rules.
PHB pg186: General Rules for Long Rests.
Long Rest
A Long Rest is a period of extended downtime, at least 8 hours long, during which a character sleeps for at least 6 hours and performs no more than 2 hours of light activity, such as reading, talking, eating, or standing watch. If the rest is interrupted by a period of strenuous activity—at least 1 hour of walking, Fighting, casting Spells, or similar Adventuring activity—the characters must begin the rest again to gain any benefit from it.
At the end of a Long Rest, a character regains all lost Hit Points. The character also regains spent Hit Dice, up to a number of dice equal to half of the character’s total number of them (minimum of one die). For example, if a character has eight Hit Dice, he or she can regain four spent Hit Dice upon finishing a Long Rest.
A character can’t benefit from more than one Long Rest in a 24-hour period, and a character must have at least 1 hit point at the start of the rest to gain its benefits.
PHB pg23: Elves' Specific Rule for Long Rests
Trance
Elves don’t need to sleep. Instead, they meditate deeply, remaining semiconscious, for 4 hours a day. (The Common word for such meditation is “trance.”) While meditating, you can dream after a fashion; such dreams are actually mental exercises that have become reflexive through years of practice. After resting in this way, you gain the same benefit that a human does from 8 hours of sleep.
The General Rule is that a Long Rest has to be a consecutive 8 hours with at least 6 hours of it being sleep and the rest being nothing more than light activity.
The Specific Rule is that Elves get the benefits that humans would get from 8 hours of sleep from only a 4 hour trance. Because humans sleeping for 8 hours fits the criteria for a Long Rest, that means a Long Rest is a benefit the Elf gets for having a 4 hour trance. That is Rules as Written, explicitly clear in the PHB.
Sage Advice Compendium, version 2.6, page 2
Does the Trance trait allow an elf to finish a long rest in 4 hours?
If an elf meditates during a long rest (as described in the Trance trait), the elf finishes the rest after only 4 hours. A meditating elf otherwise follows all the rules for a long rest; only the duration is changed
The Sage Advice Compendium shows that there is no discrepency between RAW & RAI.
The rules are abundantly clear, and lacking in any ambiguity, as you've been told multiple times, but I close by giving you back some of your own words:
Whatever, you either get it or you don’t, you can lead a horse to water etc etc
The Specific Rule is that Elves get the benefits that humans would get from 8 hours of sleep from only a 4 hour trance. Because humans sleeping for 8 hours fits the criteria for a Long Rest, that means a Long Rest is a benefit the Elf gets for having a 4 hour trance. That is Rules as Written, explicitly clear in the PHB.
That's not really rules as written, that's rule A + rule B = extrapolation C. It's like saying that since Fireball lights objects on fire and does fire damage, Fire Bolt should also light things on fire because it does fire damage too. Rules do what they say they do, and making assumptions beyond that is the definition of RAI.
Periods of sleep and long rests have a lot of overlap, but they are not necessarily the same thing. As mentioned before, if you have recently taken a long rest then 8 hours of sleep gives you no benefit except resetting the exhaustion clock. That is the explicit benefit of sleeping. Long rests have separate requirements and Trance does not specifically address that those are met. The fact that Reborn does mention long rests adds more credence to the position that Trance gives a different benefit.
Of course SAC does spell it out specifically, so it comes down to whether or not you consider SAC to be official rules or just rulings.
This is not the sticking point for me anyway, but thought I might try to explain the position. My personal issues with the build are
taking multiple consecutive rests
using your patron-granted slots for non-warlock resources. IMO this is a great way to make your patron very upset with you.
The Specific Rule is that Elves get the benefits that humans would get from 8 hours of sleep from only a 4 hour trance. Because humans sleeping for 8 hours fits the criteria for a Long Rest, that means a Long Rest is a benefit the Elf gets for having a 4 hour trance. That is Rules as Written, explicitly clear in the PHB.
That's not really rules as written, that's rule A + rule B = extrapolation C. It's like saying that since Fireball lights objects on fire and does fire damage, Fire Bolt should also light things on fire because it does fire damage too. Rules do what they say they do, and making assumptions beyond that is the definition of RAI.
Periods of sleep and long rests have a lot of overlap, but they are not necessarily the same thing. As mentioned before, if you have recently taken a long rest then 8 hours of sleep gives you no benefit except resetting the exhaustion clock. That is the explicit benefit of sleeping. Long rests have separate requirements and Trance does not specifically address that those are met. The fact that Reborn does mention long rests adds more credence to the position that Trance gives a different benefit.
Of course SAC does spell it out specifically, so it comes down to whether or not you consider SAC to be official rules or just rulings.
This is not the sticking point for me anyway, but thought I might try to explain the position. My personal issues with the build are
taking multiple consecutive rests
using your patron-granted slots for non-warlock resources. IMO this is a great way to make your patron very upset with you.
You're stretching beyond credulity to make that comparison. There's no rule for 8 hours of consecutive, voluntary sleep NOT being a Long Rest, and myself and others have extensively presented and explained the rules for why 8 hours of sleep (or trance equivalent) is rules as written a Long Rest.
It's a case of "If A=B, and B=C, then A=C".
In contrast, Firebolt does NOT say that it does what Fireball does, so there's no basis for the assumption that something that applies to Fireball would also apply to Firebolt.
As for your own concerns:
If you don't like repeated short rests, telling me you'd disallow it at your table as a house rule does answer my initial question. But claiming that rules in the books make doing it impossible would simply be a direct falsehood.
A patron teaches an individual magic as part of a deal, but once taught, the magic is the person's. It's not bestowed upon them in an ongoing manner the way a Cleric or Paladin is granted magic. So why would the goddess of magic, or her appointed teacher take issue with a student combining the lessons with his own innate abilities to improve his chances of survival, so he can keep serving the goddess' will?
Fayette, there isn't a quotable sentence in the PHB that says "8 hours of sleep is a long rest," but you've made clear you're not going to budge on that and prefer the SAC ruling. That's fine.
There also isn't a quotable sentence in the PHB that says "you can take separate rests back to back" or "you can take unlimited short rests" or "you can take short rests first thing in the morning after you wake up," just some vague language that you can take some amount of short rests "in the midst of a day." You're right that the PHB doesn't say you can't do that, but it also doesn't say (or really suggest) that you can. So, your mileage may vary with your DM.
Most DMs are hostile to CoffeeLock shenanigans. The build you've described is a CoffeeLock. I don't think its likely that most DMs would let you take four short rests before or after a four-hour long rest with the intent of laundering Pact slots, even if they do agree that Elves can take a 4-hour long rest. But it's up to them, it's a ruling your DM needs to make, nobody here can predict one way or the other what your DM will say when you bring them this proposal, even if we would have "reservations about allowing this character at our table."
Fayette, there isn't a quotable sentence in the PHB that says "8 hours of sleep is a long rest," but you've made clear you're not going to budge on that and prefer the SAC ruling. That's fine.
Again - I feel I have to ask "Wait - what?"
The long rest rule is: At least 8 hours of time (1) - of which at least 6 hours of it is sleep (2) - and no more than 2 hours of it is light activity (3). So how does 8 hours of sleep not constitute a long rest? 8 hours of sleep is absolutely at least 8 hours of time (1) - it is absolutely at least 6 hours of sleep (2) and it absolutely contains no more than 2 hours of light activity (3).
You go to sleep at midnight, and indulge in a full 8 hours of sleep with no break for watch, and wake up at 8 am.
Fine, you completed a long rest.
You adventure for a lil bit, get a lil poisoned, get a few blows on the head.... you're tired, and go back to bed at 2:00 pm, sleeping until 10:00 pm, hoping to wake up and stage a daring night raid on the goblin lair.
Congratulations, you just slept for 8 hours and didn't Long Rest, because its the same 24-hour period.
After a hard fight storming the dungeon, you go to bed at midnight again, determined to get a fresh start on tomorrow. Unfortunately, you're woken up by an attack from some surviving goblins at 6 am, and have to engage in some drawn out combat that keeps you jazzed and active until about 7 am. You go back to sleep, and even sleep in a little bit later than you intended until 9 am, having gotten a full 8 hours of sleep in the night....
Congratulations, you just slept 8 hours and didn't Long Rest, because you were interrupted by 1 hour of strenuous activity.
This is getting ridiculous and frustrating, so you chug gallons of Chamomile tea until you fall back asleep at 10 am, determined to sleep for 8 uninterrupted hours. But somewhere on the other side of the world, an evil Hag cackles as she peers into her crystal ball, invading your slumber with Dream to send you nightmares. You wake up in the late afternoon at 4 pm, drenched in sweat, and feeling more tired than you did that morning.
You just slept 8 hours and didn't Long Rest (though I'll admit, this one doesn't really count, because you also didn't "gain any benefit from that rest" per Dream).
In a delirium, you stagger out into the wilderness, where you're set upon by wolves that tear you to shreds in your weakened state. You remember dying.... but wake up later that night with your concerned friends looking over you, who tended your wounds while you slept for 8 hours.
You just slept 8 hours and didn't Long Rest, because you started it with 0 HP.
You remember, "wait a minute, I'm an elf!" and slip into a Trance for 4 hours. You cease your Trance, confident that now you can start your day right. While the rest of your team still slumbers, you slip off into the night to scout ahead...
Whoops, you just Tranced in a way that's the same as sleeping for 8 hours, but you didn't get a long rest, because stopped before 8 hours of downtime.
There's lots of ways to sleep 8 hours and not Long Rest.
Long Rest
A long rest is a period of extended downtime, at least 8 hours long, during which a character sleeps for at least 6 hours and performs no more than 2 hours of light activity, such as reading, talking, eating, or standing watch. If the rest is interrupted by a period of strenuous activity - at least 1 hour of walking, fighting, casting spells, or similar adventuring activity - the characters must begin the rest again to gain any benefit from it.
At the end of a long rest, a character regains all lost hit points. The character also regains spent Hit Dice, up to a number of dice equal to half of the character's total number of them (minimum of one die). For example, if a character has eight Hit Dice, he or she can regain four spent Hit Dice upon finishing a long rest.
A character can't benefit from more than one long rest in a 24-hour period, and a character must have at least 1 hit point at the start of the rest to gain its benefits.
Sleeping 6 (or 8) hours is necessary for a normal character to complete a Long Rest, which "is a period of extended downtime, at least 8 hours long." It is not sufficient to long rest, however, because all of the following must be satisfied:
Sleep for at least 6 hours (or as otherwise described by your special features, like an Elf's Trance)
No more than 2 hours of light activity (or as otherwise described by your special features, like a Warlock's Aspect of the Moon)
Less than 1 hour of strenuous activity
Only once per 24-hour period
Start with at least 1 HP
At least 8 hours
Elves modify the first requirement explicitly, and implicitly the second as well if you want them to be do anything other than sit there frustrated while waiting for the hours to slip by. But their race feature in no way purports to modify the remaining three requirements.
The Reborn is very different, in that it explicitly modifies the 8 hour requirement. It, and the SAC ruling suggesting that elves do the same, is bad.
Absolutely anyone who sleeps for 8 hours has completed a long rest, barring a special rule to the contrary. Here are two examples that are not rules to the contrary:
Dream does not prevent a long rest. If the dream is terrifying and the target fails their save, they gain no benefit from their long rest, but they have still long rested, in much the same way you can breathe in carbon dioxide - the breath didn't benefit you, but you did inhale.
Likewise, if you sleep for 8 hours, wake up, go back to sleep, and sleep for another 8 hours, you have completed two long rests. Because both rests occurred in the same 24-hour period, assuming you benefited from the first long rest, you won't benefit from the second - but you will have long rested.
So, for example, suppose you are under a magical curse such that every time you complete a long rest, you suffer incredibly agony for 5 minutes straight. In both of the above examples, the curse will still trigger - that is, Dream won't prevent the curse from happening, and in the second example, the curse will trigger twice.
I'll concede that I did gloss over the difference between "not long resting" and "long resting, but getting no benefit." The point still stands, that for an elf to get the benefit of a successful Long Rest, they must satisfy all 6 Long Rest requirements, including the 8-hour requirement.
As to whether sleeping for 16 hours straight is one successful 16 hour long rest, or one successful 8 hour long rest and one failed 8 hour long rest, or one successful 8 hour long rest and 8 successful short rests, or one successful 8 hour long rest and 8 failed short rests, or one successful 8 hour long rest and then 8 hours of meaningless sleep because you can't rest back to back... that's a DM question that's relevant to OPs CoffeeLocking, but not to our disagreement about Elves 4 hour Long Resting.
I'll concede that I did gloss over the difference between "not long resting" and "long resting, but getting no benefit." The point still stands, that for an elf to get the benefit of a successful Long Rest, they must satisfy all 6 Long Rest requirements, including the 8-hour requirement.
As to whether sleeping for 16 hours straight is one successful 16 hour long rest, or one successful 8 hour long rest and one failed 8 hour long rest, or one successful 8 hour long rest and 8 successful short rests, or one successful 8 hour long rest and 8 failed short rests, or one successful 8 hour long rest and then 8 hours of meaningless sleep because you can't rest back to back... that's a DM question that's relevant to OPs CoffeeLocking, but not to our disagreement about Elves 4 hour Long Resting.
There are NOT six requirements for a Long Rest.
It's a flat 8hr block of time, with 6 hours of it being sleep. The other two hours CAN be light activity, or sleep.
You can only start a long rest 1/24 hours, and if you have at least 1hp at the beginning.
THAT's IT.
The wording of the rules for Trance shows that it replaces the sleep requirement, and the duration (the 4hr trance having the same benefit as 8hrs sleep). That means an Elf that Trances for 4 hours is taking a long rest, which is complete at the end of the 4 hours.
We’re continuing to talk past each other. I still haven’t heard you engage with why sleeping/trancing in 4 hours instead of 6 is relevant to a long rest being defined as “downtime, at least 8 hours long.” But more words from me probably won’t change that.
We’re continuing to talk past each other. I still haven’t heard you engage with why sleeping/trancing in 4 hours instead of 6 is relevant to a long rest being defined as “downtime, at least 8 hours long.” But more words from me probably won’t change that.
¯\_(ツ)_/¯
You've been given the full quotations multiple times. You ignoring it doesn't make it go away.
The Elf's 4hr trance counts exactly the same mechanically as anyone else's 8hr sleep. Full stop.
The book says it, the FAQ says it. You're ignoring everything.
We’re continuing to talk past each other. I still haven’t heard you engage with why sleeping/trancing in 4 hours instead of 6 is relevant to a long rest being defined as “downtime, at least 8 hours long.” But more words from me probably won’t change that.
¯\_(ツ)_/¯
You've been given the full quotations multiple times. You ignoring it doesn't make it go away.
The Elf's 4hr trance counts exactly the same mechanically as anyone else's 8hr sleep. Full stop.
The book says it, the FAQ says it. You're ignoring everything.
If sleep is the only requirement for a long rest then why isn’t a long rest only 6 hours, since that is the minimum and you are saying that is all that is needed: sleep? Why the extra 2 hours?
"If sleep is the only requirement for a long rest then why isn’t a long rest only 6 hours, since that is the minimum and you are saying that is all that is needed: sleep? Why the extra 2 hours?"
I believe this is to account for all the stuff that goes on when setting up or tearing down the camp. There's a bunch of things that really doesn't need to take up game time that can go on. Foraging for food and water, maintaining gear, gathering wood for the fire, and so on. An Elf with Trance gets all the benefits of a full night's sleep in 4 hours, leaving them plenty of time to have a nice cup of coffee while they're on watch.
We’re continuing to talk past each other. I still haven’t heard you engage with why sleeping/trancing in 4 hours instead of 6 is relevant to a long rest being defined as “downtime, at least 8 hours long.” But more words from me probably won’t change that.
¯\_(ツ)_/¯
You've been given the full quotations multiple times. You ignoring it doesn't make it go away.
The Elf's 4hr trance counts exactly the same mechanically as anyone else's 8hr sleep. Full stop.
The book says it, the FAQ says it. You're ignoring everything.
If sleep is the only requirement for a long rest then why isn’t a long rest only 6 hours, since that is the minimum and you are saying that is all that is needed: sleep? Why the extra 2 hours?
8hrs of sleep is how long an average real person needs to sleep to operate at peak efficiency, though for periods of time, people can function on fewer hours of sleep. As such, the rules of the game set a minimum of 6 hours of sleep with two hours of light activity, but a character can also sleep for the full 8hrs to gain the same benefit of a Long Rest.
That's why an Elf's Trance completes a Long Rest in 4 hours, because that 4-hr meditation grants the same benefit as 8 hours of sleep... the full duration of a Long Rest.
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It is in the PHB, and it has been quoted for you, you've just ignored it. You're chronically stuck on the wrong details.
PHB pg7: specific rules take precedence over general rules.
PHB pg186: General Rules for Long Rests.
PHB pg23: Elves' Specific Rule for Long Rests
The General Rule is that a Long Rest has to be a consecutive 8 hours with at least 6 hours of it being sleep and the rest being nothing more than light activity.
The Specific Rule is that Elves get the benefits that humans would get from 8 hours of sleep from only a 4 hour trance. Because humans sleeping for 8 hours fits the criteria for a Long Rest, that means a Long Rest is a benefit the Elf gets for having a 4 hour trance. That is Rules as Written, explicitly clear in the PHB.
Sage Advice Compendium, version 2.6, page 2
The Sage Advice Compendium shows that there is no discrepency between RAW & RAI.
The rules are abundantly clear, and lacking in any ambiguity, as you've been told multiple times, but I close by giving you back some of your own words:
That's not really rules as written, that's rule A + rule B = extrapolation C. It's like saying that since Fireball lights objects on fire and does fire damage, Fire Bolt should also light things on fire because it does fire damage too. Rules do what they say they do, and making assumptions beyond that is the definition of RAI.
Periods of sleep and long rests have a lot of overlap, but they are not necessarily the same thing. As mentioned before, if you have recently taken a long rest then 8 hours of sleep gives you no benefit except resetting the exhaustion clock. That is the explicit benefit of sleeping. Long rests have separate requirements and Trance does not specifically address that those are met. The fact that Reborn does mention long rests adds more credence to the position that Trance gives a different benefit.
Of course SAC does spell it out specifically, so it comes down to whether or not you consider SAC to be official rules or just rulings.
This is not the sticking point for me anyway, but thought I might try to explain the position. My personal issues with the build are
My homebrew subclasses (full list here)
(Artificer) Swordmage | Glasswright | (Barbarian) Path of the Savage Embrace
(Bard) College of Dance | (Fighter) Warlord | Cannoneer
(Monk) Way of the Elements | (Ranger) Blade Dancer
(Rogue) DaggerMaster | Inquisitor | (Sorcerer) Riftwalker | Spellfist
(Warlock) The Swarm
You're stretching beyond credulity to make that comparison. There's no rule for 8 hours of consecutive, voluntary sleep NOT being a Long Rest, and myself and others have extensively presented and explained the rules for why 8 hours of sleep (or trance equivalent) is rules as written a Long Rest.
It's a case of "If A=B, and B=C, then A=C".
In contrast, Firebolt does NOT say that it does what Fireball does, so there's no basis for the assumption that something that applies to Fireball would also apply to Firebolt.
As for your own concerns:
If you don't like repeated short rests, telling me you'd disallow it at your table as a house rule does answer my initial question. But claiming that rules in the books make doing it impossible would simply be a direct falsehood.
A patron teaches an individual magic as part of a deal, but once taught, the magic is the person's. It's not bestowed upon them in an ongoing manner the way a Cleric or Paladin is granted magic. So why would the goddess of magic, or her appointed teacher take issue with a student combining the lessons with his own innate abilities to improve his chances of survival, so he can keep serving the goddess' will?
Fayette, there isn't a quotable sentence in the PHB that says "8 hours of sleep is a long rest," but you've made clear you're not going to budge on that and prefer the SAC ruling. That's fine.
There also isn't a quotable sentence in the PHB that says "you can take separate rests back to back" or "you can take unlimited short rests" or "you can take short rests first thing in the morning after you wake up," just some vague language that you can take some amount of short rests "in the midst of a day." You're right that the PHB doesn't say you can't do that, but it also doesn't say (or really suggest) that you can. So, your mileage may vary with your DM.
Most DMs are hostile to CoffeeLock shenanigans. The build you've described is a CoffeeLock. I don't think its likely that most DMs would let you take four short rests before or after a four-hour long rest with the intent of laundering Pact slots, even if they do agree that Elves can take a 4-hour long rest. But it's up to them, it's a ruling your DM needs to make, nobody here can predict one way or the other what your DM will say when you bring them this proposal, even if we would have "reservations about allowing this character at our table."
You have your answer, do with it what you will.
dndbeyond.com forum tags
I'm going to make this way harder than it needs to be.
Again - I feel I have to ask "Wait - what?"
The long rest rule is: At least 8 hours of time (1) - of which at least 6 hours of it is sleep (2) - and no more than 2 hours of it is light activity (3).
So how does 8 hours of sleep not constitute a long rest?
8 hours of sleep is absolutely at least 8 hours of time (1) - it is absolutely at least 6 hours of sleep (2) and it absolutely contains no more than 2 hours of light activity (3).
I'm very confused.
Mega Yahtzee Thread:
Highest 41: brocker2001 (#11,285).
Yahtzee of 2's: Emmber (#36,161).
Lowest 9: JoeltheWalrus (#312), Emmber (#12,505) and Dertinus (#20,953).
Fine, you completed a long rest.
Congratulations, you just slept for 8 hours and didn't Long Rest, because its the same 24-hour period.
Congratulations, you just slept 8 hours and didn't Long Rest, because you were interrupted by 1 hour of strenuous activity.
You just slept 8 hours and didn't Long Rest (though I'll admit, this one doesn't really count, because you also didn't "gain any benefit from that rest" per Dream).
You just slept 8 hours and didn't Long Rest, because you started it with 0 HP.
Whoops, you just Tranced in a way that's the same as sleeping for 8 hours, but you didn't get a long rest, because stopped before 8 hours of downtime.
There's lots of ways to sleep 8 hours and not Long Rest.
Sleeping 6 (or 8) hours is necessary for a normal character to complete a Long Rest, which "is a period of extended downtime, at least 8 hours long." It is not sufficient to long rest, however, because all of the following must be satisfied:
Elves modify the first requirement explicitly, and implicitly the second as well if you want them to be do anything other than sit there frustrated while waiting for the hours to slip by. But their race feature in no way purports to modify the remaining three requirements.
The Reborn is very different, in that it explicitly modifies the 8 hour requirement. It, and the SAC ruling suggesting that elves do the same, is bad.
dndbeyond.com forum tags
I'm going to make this way harder than it needs to be.
Absolutely anyone who sleeps for 8 hours has completed a long rest, barring a special rule to the contrary. Here are two examples that are not rules to the contrary:
So, for example, suppose you are under a magical curse such that every time you complete a long rest, you suffer incredibly agony for 5 minutes straight. In both of the above examples, the curse will still trigger - that is, Dream won't prevent the curse from happening, and in the second example, the curse will trigger twice.
I'll concede that I did gloss over the difference between "not long resting" and "long resting, but getting no benefit." The point still stands, that for an elf to get the benefit of a successful Long Rest, they must satisfy all 6 Long Rest requirements, including the 8-hour requirement.
As to whether sleeping for 16 hours straight is one successful 16 hour long rest, or one successful 8 hour long rest and one failed 8 hour long rest, or one successful 8 hour long rest and 8 successful short rests, or one successful 8 hour long rest and 8 failed short rests, or one successful 8 hour long rest and then 8 hours of meaningless sleep because you can't rest back to back... that's a DM question that's relevant to OPs CoffeeLocking, but not to our disagreement about Elves 4 hour Long Resting.
dndbeyond.com forum tags
I'm going to make this way harder than it needs to be.
There are NOT six requirements for a Long Rest.
It's a flat 8hr block of time, with 6 hours of it being sleep. The other two hours CAN be light activity, or sleep.
You can only start a long rest 1/24 hours, and if you have at least 1hp at the beginning.
THAT's IT.
The wording of the rules for Trance shows that it replaces the sleep requirement, and the duration (the 4hr trance having the same benefit as 8hrs sleep). That means an Elf that Trances for 4 hours is taking a long rest, which is complete at the end of the 4 hours.
We’re continuing to talk past each other. I still haven’t heard you engage with why sleeping/trancing in 4 hours instead of 6 is relevant to a long rest being defined as “downtime, at least 8 hours long.” But more words from me probably won’t change that.
¯\_(ツ)_/¯
dndbeyond.com forum tags
I'm going to make this way harder than it needs to be.
You've been given the full quotations multiple times. You ignoring it doesn't make it go away.
The Elf's 4hr trance counts exactly the same mechanically as anyone else's 8hr sleep. Full stop.
The book says it, the FAQ says it. You're ignoring everything.
If sleep is the only requirement for a long rest then why isn’t a long rest only 6 hours, since that is the minimum and you are saying that is all that is needed: sleep? Why the extra 2 hours?
EZD6 by DM Scotty
https://www.drivethrurpg.com/en/product/397599/EZD6-Core-Rulebook?
"If sleep is the only requirement for a long rest then why isn’t a long rest only 6 hours, since that is the minimum and you are saying that is all that is needed: sleep? Why the extra 2 hours?"
I believe this is to account for all the stuff that goes on when setting up or tearing down the camp. There's a bunch of things that really doesn't need to take up game time that can go on. Foraging for food and water, maintaining gear, gathering wood for the fire, and so on. An Elf with Trance gets all the benefits of a full night's sleep in 4 hours, leaving them plenty of time to have a nice cup of coffee while they're on watch.
<Insert clever signature here>
8hrs of sleep is how long an average real person needs to sleep to operate at peak efficiency, though for periods of time, people can function on fewer hours of sleep. As such, the rules of the game set a minimum of 6 hours of sleep with two hours of light activity, but a character can also sleep for the full 8hrs to gain the same benefit of a Long Rest.
That's why an Elf's Trance completes a Long Rest in 4 hours, because that 4-hr meditation grants the same benefit as 8 hours of sleep... the full duration of a Long Rest.