Why isn't artificer a good combo? Make your own magic items seems quite nice and doesn't affect rage. Even a lot of the subclasses seem to work just fine in rage? And their lack of spells removes a lot of the problem with the DC.
Wizard might be a bit harder though. If you aim for out of combat things illusionist seems fine, many of the more fun illusions only require a DC when interacted with, so the low DC isn't necessarily a problem. In combat, mirror images are fun.
Divination wizard also good outside combat, and in combat having some choice of changing your or other peoples results is nice.
I'm sure a few others would work as well, maybe necromancer but haven't read that particular one in a while.
W.r.t. Wizard. I stated my rationale and I’m going to stick with it. Wizards are very strong… just play a Wizard. This guide is under the assumption that you will be primarily a Barbarian. So all your Wizard stuff will come later than usual. Also, a low INT artificer is sub-par but doable; a low INT Wizard is significantly hampered, borderline debilitated, however. So, in my opinion, Multiclassing with a Barbie makes your Wizard worse, without the payoff. Conversely, there is nothing that your Barbie gains that couldn’t be gained with a different multiclass with fewer downsides.
Portent is strong, admittedly, and a 2 level Wizard dip for it is hard to argue, but you also get Arcane recovery which is weak for you. Is that better than 2 levels of warlock? I’d say… probably not. As for necro, grim harvest is worthless for you, so you have to take 6 levels of Wizard… with low hit dice and no other subclass benefits… to get an ability that scales on Wizard levels and makes your skellies a little more effective. But remember, you are a Barbie… so you are getting these slightly better skellies at what, level 12? Not worth a 6 level investment in my opinion.
in my analysis, Wizards are awesome because they get the best, and most, spells. Being a Barbie, this isn’t as helpful to you as other multiclass options. You can get all the spells you will ever need from a different class choice and also get subclass abilities that synergize mugh better.
All this said, you could build a BAR/WIZ and play it and have fun… 5e is very forgiving.
I would make the argument that a Wizard multiclass could work well if you specifically go War Magic or Bladesinger subclass.
War Magic's Arcane Deflection feature can be activated during a rage and gives you a way to bolster your AC or a saving throw in a critical moment. You can always take this reaction with the only downside being that 1) you give up the chance to make an attack of opportunity 2) you cannot cast spells other than cantrips until the end of you next turn (but if you are raging you arent going to be casting spells anyway). War Magic wizards also get Tactical Wit, which means you can add your Int modifier to your initiative rolls (which you eventually will also have advantage on as a Barbarian)
Bladesinger's Bladesong can be used while raging as well and provide additional passive benefits. Granted, this works poorly if you plan to use great weapon fighting, but if you planned to use one-handed weapons or two weapon fighting then it could work well at the cost of losing some damage output.
Admittedly, as you pointed out there isnt enough class/subclass feature synergy to merit multiclassing a large number of levels into either of these choices, but I think they are excellent if all you want is 2 or 3 levels in a caster to pick up a handful of buff spells to cast before you enter your rage.
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Not totally relevant since this is strictly a spell guide, but the psionic subclasses for Fighter and Rogue are pretty interesting with Barbarians. You get abilities that are spells in all but name, so you can do your teleporting and psionic shoves and whatnot while you're raging. A high level Beast Barb/Psi Warrior can make a pretty convincing Beast from X-men.
I would make the argument that a Wizard multiclass could work well if you specifically go War Magic or Bladesinger subclass.
Yes, this argument makes sense. I decided not to rate on the subclass level, and my “poor” rating is because the other subclasses really offer nothing. But yes, these two subclasses are good. Tell you what, I’ll amend the text in my appendix :)
War Magic's Arcane Deflection feature can be activated during a rage and gives you a way to bolster your AC or a saving throw in a critical moment. You can always take this reaction with the only downside being that 1) you give up the chance to make an attack of opportunity 2) you cannot cast spells other than cantrips until the end of you next turn (but if you are raging you arent going to be casting spells anyway). War Magic wizards also get Tactical Wit, which means you can add your Int modifier to your initiative rolls (which you eventually will also have advantage on as a Barbarian)
I agree that if I had to multiclass with wizard, I would choose War Magic. Arcane Deflection is pretty sweet. Tactical Wit is meh because I probably don’t have a good INT, and advantage is good enough in most cases. If I were ranking at the subclass level, this is definitely “good” though.
Bladesinger's Bladesong can be used while raging as well and provide additional passive benefits. Granted, this works poorly if you plan to use great weapon fighting, but if you planned to use one-handed weapons or two weapon fighting then it could work well at the cost of losing some damage output.
Admittedly, as you pointed out there isnt enough class/subclass feature synergy to merit multiclassing a large number of levels into either of these choices, but I think they are excellent if all you want is 2 or 3 levels in a caster to pick up a handful of buff spells to cast before you enter your rage.
Again, assuming a low INT, blade song is just decent. If you boost INT, you are sacrificing somewhere else, so I’m not sold. Is it a viable build… yes! Also, I think multiclassing your bladesinger into barbarian just makes a weaker bladesinger. Better to get to stick with pure bladesinger… but that is just me :)
Just started a barbarian, with plans to go wild magic and eventually take war magic wizard. Happy to find this guide. Was only planning to go 2 levels in wizard then going fighter echo knight and call the echo a “homunculus.” But some of these 3rd and 4th level spells look fun.
Just picking a new campaign with my mates as one of the members has left for the next year and I would like a change of pace from being the forever DM. It's based in the underdark and is going to be more intrigue but I have decided on going 2 barb into bladesinger wizard. More for the flavour that he is basically finding this song in the back of his mind whilst he rages that becomes the bladesong. I've agreed with my dm that I can have a Sabre (just a slashing homebrew of the rapier) and is a MMoM kobold. Small, angry, but kind smart and bad with everything else. I know this isn't the most optimal as that would probably be going straight Bladesinger or a dip into bard/rogue for the expertise and range of skills you don't quite get from barb or wizard but it does mean i don't have to take mage armour and I will likely lose out on max rage damage until later levels or if my dm agrees I can replace the Str with Dex. It will be nice to see a character change with the game and I think the aim is to keep the wizard side secret even from the character until it kind of just appears during a rage one time.
Not totally relevant since this is strictly a spell guide, but the psionic subclasses for Fighter and Rogue are pretty interesting with Barbarians. You get abilities that are spells in all but name, so you can do your teleporting and psionic shoves and whatnot while you're raging. A high level Beast Barb/Psi Warrior can make a pretty convincing Beast from X-men.
Just to be fair if rage stops spell casting it should also stop all Psionic abilities also. Its might get a bit unbalanced if you allowed it.
I don't see why it should. Psionics are pretty much just different Maneuvers, and no sane person is going to ban Maneuvers while raging.
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Look at what you've done. You spoiled it. You have nobody to blame but yourself. Go sit and think about your actions.
Don't be mean. Rudeness is a vicious cycle, and it has to stop somewhere. Exceptions for things that are funny. Go to the current Competition of the Finest 'Brews! It's a cool place where cool people make cool things.
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Glad people are still reading this guide and offering necro comments! While we are a little off topic, I thought I would chime in. Rules as written, I see nothing stopping using psionic abilities while raging. I also would not nerf this with a house rule as I don't personally see it as overpowered. As a DM I tend to be very light-handed with the nerf stick, however.
Not totally relevant since this is strictly a spell guide, but the psionic subclasses for Fighter and Rogue are pretty interesting with Barbarians. You get abilities that are spells in all but name, so you can do your teleporting and psionic shoves and whatnot while you're raging. A high level Beast Barb/Psi Warrior can make a pretty convincing Beast from X-men.
Just to be fair if rage stops spell casting it should also stop all Psionic abilities also. Its might get a bit unbalanced if you allowed it.
Maybe it should, maybe it shouldn't. But honestly, that doesn't really matter, at least as long as we're talking RAW, since whether it should or not is pretty irrelevant - the rules don't prohibit it, so it's not prohibited. Psionics ≠ spellcasting, whether Psionics is considered magic or not (and that by itself is kind of a massive argument with no firm answer).
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Paladin main who spends most of his D&D time worldbuilding or DMing, not Paladin-ing.
My only argument is that psionics should have the same concentration restrictions or rules that spells follow. As it stands nothing can stop psionics except another psionic.
Having played years ago in campaigns that had psionics characters in them it did unbalance things a bit.
It the same argument I have against Force users in Star Wars RPG. Nothing can stop them. They inevitably become the rulers of the universe and the only thing stopping them are other force users. There are not the droids you are looking for.
I think Cure Wounds is another spell that could work on a Barbarian. Its situational, but if you drop to 0 HP (ending your Rage) but are brought back by a party member, you could use your Action to cast Cure Wounds on yourself and then use your Bonus Action to Rage (effectively doubling the HP you just got). This one is still risky though, since youre not using your action to attack you have to hope you aggro some hits from the enemies after standing back up so you dont lose your rage immediately. Granted, if you have a party member that can heal you may be better off just asking them to focus on healing you for a couple of rounds
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Three-time Judge of the Competition of the Finest Brews!Come join us in making fun, unique homebrew and voting for your favorite entries!
“In a hole in the ground there lived a hobbit. Not a nasty, dirty, wet hole, filled with the ends of worms and an oozy smell, nor yet a dry, bare, sandy hole with nothing in it to sit down on or to eat: it was a hobbithole, and that means comfort.”
My only argument is that psionics should have the same concentration restrictions or rules that spells follow. As it stands nothing can stop psionics except another psionic.
Nothing that the Psi Warrior or Soul Knife get via psychic powers requires concentration except for Telekinetic Warrior, and that's high enough level that a barbarian multiclass isn't really going to need to worry about it. And none of the abilities they get are any sort of world-shatteringly powerful. Psyionics can be stopped by all kinds of things, we're not playing 2nd Edition rules here.
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Find your own truth, choose your enemies carefully, and never deal with a dragon.
"Canon" is what's factual to D&D lore. "Cannon" is what you're going to be shot with if you keep getting the word wrong.
I think Cure Wounds is another spell that could work on a Barbarian. Its situational, but if you drop to 0 HP (ending your Rage) but are brought back by a party member, you could use your Action to cast Cure Wounds on yourself and then use your Bonus Action to Rage (effectively doubling the HP you just got). This one is still risky though, since youre not using your action to attack you have to hope you aggro some hits from the enemies after standing back up so you dont lose your rage immediately. Granted, if you have a party member that can heal you may be better off just asking them to focus on healing you for a couple of rounds
Cure wounds and healing word are powerful - agreed. Not really sure what I was thinking when I left them off except that I see Goodberry as better. That said, a 13 spell casting ability and only mediocre spell slots, they really don't add a significant amount of hit points. Most of the time you are better off attacking and leaving the healing to others. However, when saving a compatriot from failing their death saving throws they can be invaluable so they probably do warrant at least an honorable mention. I guess even though it has been a long time I could still update the guide. [edit: Done!]
I’m running a Barbarian Gnome with the Sage background. Gives me a few cantrips and 1 spell. I’ve been struggling with deciding on a spell but leaning towards Thindercplap. (Just on cohesiveness of roleplay and what would make sense for the chara To know at lvl 1 with him being a book worm and not having a magic based background)
The concept is that my gnome is obsessed with knowledge and becomes overwhelmed with excitement of new knowledge causing him to loose focus and enter the rage. Think of a small child getting a new toy and breaking it out of excitement. Figured it would be a nice change to they stereotype of barbarians.
Seriously, in the 2014 rules they can cast some spells.
Sorry I missed this comment! My excuse is that this is quite the necro comment :)
I'll admit that I didn't consider monk. However, I looked at their list and I don't see anything that meets the original criteria. They either require concentration or a decent spellcasting stat (WIS, right?) for saves and/or attack rolls. Thus none of them really jumped out at me. I mean situationally silence is always good and I wouldn't say no to pass without trace, but that is out combat and I sort of focused on the combat spells in order to get people thinking outside the box.
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W.r.t. Wizard. I stated my rationale and I’m going to stick with it. Wizards are very strong… just play a Wizard. This guide is under the assumption that you will be primarily a Barbarian. So all your Wizard stuff will come later than usual. Also, a low INT artificer is sub-par but doable; a low INT Wizard is significantly hampered, borderline debilitated, however. So, in my opinion, Multiclassing with a Barbie makes your Wizard worse, without the payoff. Conversely, there is nothing that your Barbie gains that couldn’t be gained with a different multiclass with fewer downsides.
Portent is strong, admittedly, and a 2 level Wizard dip for it is hard to argue, but you also get Arcane recovery which is weak for you. Is that better than 2 levels of warlock? I’d say… probably not. As for necro, grim harvest is worthless for you, so you have to take 6 levels of Wizard… with low hit dice and no other subclass benefits… to get an ability that scales on Wizard levels and makes your skellies a little more effective. But remember, you are a Barbie… so you are getting these slightly better skellies at what, level 12? Not worth a 6 level investment in my opinion.
in my analysis, Wizards are awesome because they get the best, and most, spells. Being a Barbie, this isn’t as helpful to you as other multiclass options. You can get all the spells you will ever need from a different class choice and also get subclass abilities that synergize mugh better.
All this said, you could build a BAR/WIZ and play it and have fun… 5e is very forgiving.
Yeah, agree with your reasoning then, makes sense.
Probably 2 levels of divination wizard for portent or maybe a bit of an illusionist could still be decent but like you say it's probably not worth it.
As for the artificer part I haven't played one just figured having some magic items for free wouldn't hurt ;)
I would make the argument that a Wizard multiclass could work well if you specifically go War Magic or Bladesinger subclass.
War Magic's Arcane Deflection feature can be activated during a rage and gives you a way to bolster your AC or a saving throw in a critical moment. You can always take this reaction with the only downside being that 1) you give up the chance to make an attack of opportunity 2) you cannot cast spells other than cantrips until the end of you next turn (but if you are raging you arent going to be casting spells anyway). War Magic wizards also get Tactical Wit, which means you can add your Int modifier to your initiative rolls (which you eventually will also have advantage on as a Barbarian)
Bladesinger's Bladesong can be used while raging as well and provide additional passive benefits. Granted, this works poorly if you plan to use great weapon fighting, but if you planned to use one-handed weapons or two weapon fighting then it could work well at the cost of losing some damage output.
Admittedly, as you pointed out there isnt enough class/subclass feature synergy to merit multiclassing a large number of levels into either of these choices, but I think they are excellent if all you want is 2 or 3 levels in a caster to pick up a handful of buff spells to cast before you enter your rage.
Three-time Judge of the Competition of the Finest Brews! Come join us in making fun, unique homebrew and voting for your favorite entries!
Not totally relevant since this is strictly a spell guide, but the psionic subclasses for Fighter and Rogue are pretty interesting with Barbarians. You get abilities that are spells in all but name, so you can do your teleporting and psionic shoves and whatnot while you're raging. A high level Beast Barb/Psi Warrior can make a pretty convincing Beast from X-men.
My homebrew subclasses (full list here)
(Artificer) Swordmage | Glasswright | (Barbarian) Path of the Savage Embrace
(Bard) College of Dance | (Fighter) Warlord | Cannoneer
(Monk) Way of the Elements | (Ranger) Blade Dancer
(Rogue) DaggerMaster | Inquisitor | (Sorcerer) Riftwalker | Spellfist
(Warlock) The Swarm
Yes, this argument makes sense. I decided not to rate on the subclass level, and my “poor” rating is because the other subclasses really offer nothing. But yes, these two subclasses are good. Tell you what, I’ll amend the text in my appendix :)
I agree that if I had to multiclass with wizard, I would choose War Magic. Arcane Deflection is pretty sweet. Tactical Wit is meh because I probably don’t have a good INT, and advantage is good enough in most cases. If I were ranking at the subclass level, this is definitely “good” though.
Again, assuming a low INT, blade song is just decent. If you boost INT, you are sacrificing somewhere else, so I’m not sold. Is it a viable build… yes! Also, I think multiclassing your bladesinger into barbarian just makes a weaker bladesinger. Better to get to stick with pure bladesinger… but that is just me :)
Just started a barbarian, with plans to go wild magic and eventually take war magic wizard. Happy to find this guide. Was only planning to go 2 levels in wizard then going fighter echo knight and call the echo a “homunculus.” But some of these 3rd and 4th level spells look fun.
Sounds fun! Let me know how it goes :)
Just picking a new campaign with my mates as one of the members has left for the next year and I would like a change of pace from being the forever DM. It's based in the underdark and is going to be more intrigue but I have decided on going 2 barb into bladesinger wizard. More for the flavour that he is basically finding this song in the back of his mind whilst he rages that becomes the bladesong. I've agreed with my dm that I can have a Sabre (just a slashing homebrew of the rapier) and is a MMoM kobold. Small, angry, but kind smart and bad with everything else. I know this isn't the most optimal as that would probably be going straight Bladesinger or a dip into bard/rogue for the expertise and range of skills you don't quite get from barb or wizard but it does mean i don't have to take mage armour and I will likely lose out on max rage damage until later levels or if my dm agrees I can replace the Str with Dex. It will be nice to see a character change with the game and I think the aim is to keep the wizard side secret even from the character until it kind of just appears during a rage one time.
Just to be fair if rage stops spell casting it should also stop all Psionic abilities also. Its might get a bit unbalanced if you allowed it.
I don't see why it should. Psionics are pretty much just different Maneuvers, and no sane person is going to ban Maneuvers while raging.
Look at what you've done. You spoiled it. You have nobody to blame but yourself. Go sit and think about your actions.
Don't be mean. Rudeness is a vicious cycle, and it has to stop somewhere. Exceptions for things that are funny.
Go to the current Competition of the Finest 'Brews! It's a cool place where cool people make cool things.
How I'm posting based on text formatting: Mod Hat Off - Mod Hat Also Off (I'm not a mod)
Glad people are still reading this guide and offering necro comments! While we are a little off topic, I thought I would chime in. Rules as written, I see nothing stopping using psionic abilities while raging. I also would not nerf this with a house rule as I don't personally see it as overpowered. As a DM I tend to be very light-handed with the nerf stick, however.
Maybe it should, maybe it shouldn't. But honestly, that doesn't really matter, at least as long as we're talking RAW, since whether it should or not is pretty irrelevant - the rules don't prohibit it, so it's not prohibited. Psionics ≠ spellcasting, whether Psionics is considered magic or not (and that by itself is kind of a massive argument with no firm answer).
Paladin main who spends most of his D&D time worldbuilding or DMing, not Paladin-ing.
My only argument is that psionics should have the same concentration restrictions or rules that spells follow. As it stands nothing can stop psionics except another psionic.
Having played years ago in campaigns that had psionics characters in them it did unbalance things a bit.
It the same argument I have against Force users in Star Wars RPG. Nothing can stop them. They inevitably become the rulers of the universe and the only thing stopping them are other force users. There are not the droids you are looking for.
I think Cure Wounds is another spell that could work on a Barbarian. Its situational, but if you drop to 0 HP (ending your Rage) but are brought back by a party member, you could use your Action to cast Cure Wounds on yourself and then use your Bonus Action to Rage (effectively doubling the HP you just got). This one is still risky though, since youre not using your action to attack you have to hope you aggro some hits from the enemies after standing back up so you dont lose your rage immediately. Granted, if you have a party member that can heal you may be better off just asking them to focus on healing you for a couple of rounds
Three-time Judge of the Competition of the Finest Brews! Come join us in making fun, unique homebrew and voting for your favorite entries!
This is awesome
“In a hole in the ground there lived a hobbit. Not a nasty, dirty, wet hole, filled with the ends of worms and an oozy smell, nor yet a dry, bare, sandy hole with nothing in it to sit down on or to eat: it was a hobbithole, and that means comfort.”
Nothing that the Psi Warrior or Soul Knife get via psychic powers requires concentration except for Telekinetic Warrior, and that's high enough level that a barbarian multiclass isn't really going to need to worry about it. And none of the abilities they get are any sort of world-shatteringly powerful. Psyionics can be stopped by all kinds of things, we're not playing 2nd Edition rules here.
Find your own truth, choose your enemies carefully, and never deal with a dragon.
"Canon" is what's factual to D&D lore. "Cannon" is what you're going to be shot with if you keep getting the word wrong.
Cure wounds and healing word are powerful - agreed. Not really sure what I was thinking when I left them off except that I see Goodberry as better. That said, a 13 spell casting ability and only mediocre spell slots, they really don't add a significant amount of hit points. Most of the time you are better off attacking and leaving the healing to others. However, when saving a compatriot from failing their death saving throws they can be invaluable so they probably do warrant at least an honorable mention. I guess even though it has been a long time I could still update the guide. [edit: Done!]
I’m running a Barbarian Gnome with the Sage background. Gives me a few cantrips and 1 spell. I’ve been struggling with deciding on a spell but leaning towards Thindercplap. (Just on cohesiveness of roleplay and what would make sense for the chara To know at lvl 1 with him being a book worm and not having a magic based background)
The concept is that my gnome is obsessed with knowledge and becomes overwhelmed with excitement of new knowledge causing him to loose focus and enter the rage. Think of a small child getting a new toy and breaking it out of excitement. Figured it would be a nice change to they stereotype of barbarians.
What about the marb(monk barb)?
Seriously, in the 2014 rules they can cast some spells.
Sorry I missed this comment! My excuse is that this is quite the necro comment :)
I'll admit that I didn't consider monk. However, I looked at their list and I don't see anything that meets the original criteria. They either require concentration or a decent spellcasting stat (WIS, right?) for saves and/or attack rolls. Thus none of them really jumped out at me. I mean situationally silence is always good and I wouldn't say no to pass without trace, but that is out combat and I sort of focused on the combat spells in order to get people thinking outside the box.