I don't believe that proves anything. It says "Each weapon, spell, and damaging monster ability specifies the damage it deals." Note the singular for spell.
I don't believe that proves anything. It says "Each weapon, spell, and damaging monster ability specifies the damage it deals." Note the singular for spell.
Yes divine smite specify the damage it deals ''an extra 2d8 Radiant damage from the attack.'' Note the last part.
I don't believe that proves anything. It says "Each weapon, spell, and damaging monster ability specifies the damage it deals." Note the singular for spell.
Yes divine smite specify the damage it deals ''an extra 2d8 Radiant damage from the attack.'' Note the last part.
Can someone, then, decide whether to use divine smite based on the outcome of the damage roll?
I don't believe that proves anything. It says "Each weapon, spell, and damaging monster ability specifies the damage it deals." Note the singular for spell.
Yes divine smite specify the damage it deals ''an extra 2d8 Radiant damage from the attack.'' Note the last part.
Can someone, then, decide whether to use divine smite based on the outcome of the damage roll?
You use it immediately after hitting a target, not after making a damage roll against it.
I don't believe that proves anything. It says "Each weapon, spell, and damaging monster ability specifies the damage it deals." Note the singular for spell.
Yes divine smite specify the damage it deals ''an extra 2d8 Radiant damage from the attack.'' Note the last part.
Can someone, then, decide whether to use divine smite based on the outcome of the damage roll?
You use it immediately after hitting a target, not after making a damage roll against it.
It is stated, "On a hit, you roll damage..." It is kind of vague, but this doesn't seem to be "after hitting a target", but rather when you hit a target.
Agonizing blast lets you add your charisma modifier to a cantrip's damage rolls. My first question is if, strictly RAW, you can add your charisma modifier multiple times as damage scales, as the definition of a damage roll is a die roll.
"Damage Roll A damage roll is a die roll, adjusted by any applicable modifiers, that deals damage to a target." (emphasis mine)
My second question is, do you add your charisma modifier separately if you have something that adds additional dice? My use case here is if you use agonizing blast with true strike and cast divine smite. (I understand a lot of people say you can't do true strike and agonizing blast, please keep debates on that minimal)
If it helps, and I know not everybody will agree, this is how I rule it: the key to knowing if Agonizing Blast applies to one of your Warlock cantrips is checking whether the cantrip involves a spell's damage rolls, as stated in the Eldritch Invocation.
And the weapon attack in True Strike is not a spell's damage roll. At best (also debatable), it might apply to the extra Radiant damage at higher levels (5+).
I think the part about what's considered a Warlock (or any other class) spell has been clarified in the thread, and others:
Extra while not defined in the rules glossary, by definition means more, added so the assumption is that extra damage is in addition to the damage roll that get modifiers. For reference Critical Hit is a notable example.
Critical Hit: When you score a Critical Hit, you deal extra damage. Roll the attack’s damage dice twice, add them together, and add any relevant modifiers as normal.
In the spell descriptions, "increase" is used when adding more damage of the same type, while "extra" is used for adding damage of a different type, but the damage is rolled together. "Extra" means "additional," not "separate". E.g. Smite spells are good examples.
This differentiation is used in Green-Flame Blade (your argument 3):
At 5th level, the melee attack deals an extra 1d8 fire damage to the target on a hit, and the fire damage to the second creature increases to 1d8 + your spellcasting ability modifier.
So "deals an extra 1d8 fire damage" because before that "the target suffers the weapon attack’s normal effects". And "the fire damage to the second creature increases" because before that "The second creature takes fire damage".
The same with Critical Hits, for example:
A Critical Hit lets you roll extra dice for the attack’s damage against the target. Roll all of the attack’s damage dice twice and add them together.
Even for Sneak Attack, we have this sentence to explain how the additional (not separate) damage type behaves: "The extra damage’s type is the same as the weapon’s type."
It is stated, "On a hit, you roll damage..." It is kind of vague, but this doesn't seem to be "after hitting a target", but rather when you hit a target.
The specified timing of divine smite is 1 Bonus Action Which you take immediately after hitting a target with a Melee weapon or an Unarmed Strike.
It is stated, "On a hit, you roll damage..." It is kind of vague, but this doesn't seem to be "after hitting a target", but rather when you hit a target.
The specified timing of divine smite is 1 Bonus Action Which you take immediately after hitting a target with a Melee weapon or an Unarmed Strike.
Sorry, I didn't specify. That is talking about damage rolls when you make an attack.
It is stated, "On a hit, you roll damage..." It is kind of vague, but this doesn't seem to be "after hitting a target", but rather when you hit a target.
The specified timing of divine smite is 1 Bonus Action Which you take immediately after hitting a target with a Melee weapon or an Unarmed Strike.
Sorry, I didn't specify. That is talking about damage rolls when you make an attack.
This is really getting into the weeds here. What difference does this make to the original question?
It is stated, "On a hit, you roll damage..." It is kind of vague, but this doesn't seem to be "after hitting a target", but rather when you hit a target.
The specified timing of divine smite is 1 Bonus Action Which you take immediately after hitting a target with a Melee weapon or an Unarmed Strike.
Sorry, I didn't specify. That is talking about damage rolls when you make an attack.
This is really getting into the weeds here. What difference does this make to the original question?
Whether divine smite is part of the same damage roll, or a different one.
It is stated, "On a hit, you roll damage..." It is kind of vague, but this doesn't seem to be "after hitting a target", but rather when you hit a target.
The specified timing of divine smite is 1 Bonus Action Which you take immediately after hitting a target with a Melee weapon or an Unarmed Strike.
Sorry, I didn't specify. That is talking about damage rolls when you make an attack.
This is really getting into the weeds here. What difference does this make to the original question?
Whether divine smite is part of the same damage roll, or a different one.
So, just so I understand here: your argument is that Divine Smite's damage roll is a different damage roll from the attack's main damage roll, but at the same time it's still a part of the True Strike damage roll, and should therefore get the Charisma modifier added to it?
It is stated, "On a hit, you roll damage..." It is kind of vague, but this doesn't seem to be "after hitting a target", but rather when you hit a target.
The specified timing of divine smite is 1 Bonus Action Which you take immediately after hitting a target with a Melee weapon or an Unarmed Strike.
Sorry, I didn't specify. That is talking about damage rolls when you make an attack.
This is really getting into the weeds here. What difference does this make to the original question?
Whether divine smite is part of the same damage roll, or a different one.
So, just so I understand here: your argument is that Divine Smite's damage roll is a different damage roll from the attack's main damage roll, but at the same time it's still a part of the True Strike damage roll, and should therefore get the Charisma modifier added to it?
The rules glossary make several references to an instance of damage, to which extra damage roll is added as part of, not it's own seperate one.
Many cantrips for example deal extra damage dice at higher levels, yet should be the same instance of damage. Same if you add extra damage from Smite, Hex, Hunther's Mark, Sneak Attack etc....
The rules glossary make several references to an instance of damage, to which extra damage roll is added as part of, not it's own seperate one.
Many cantrips for example deal extra damage dice at higher levels, yet should be the same instance of damage. Same if you add extra damage from Smite, Hex, Hunther's Mark, Sneak Attack etc....
The only references I could find were in damage thresholds, resistance, stat blocks, and vulnerability. (2024 free rules) Even if you somehow conclude that these sources tell us that divine smite is part of the same instance of damage, that does not remotely matter, as agonizing blast acts on the damage rolls. (2024 free rules)
That's a good point, but I still see no reason why a spell can't have multiple damage rolls simultaneously. I would, however, like to point out that eldritch blast has an instantaneous duration.
The rules glossary make several references to an instance of damage, to which extra damage roll is added as part of, not it's own seperate one.
Many cantrips for example deal extra damage dice at higher levels, yet should be the same instance of damage. Same if you add extra damage from Smite, Hex, Hunther's Mark, Sneak Attack etc....
The only references I could find were in damage thresholds, resistance, stat blocks, and vulnerability. (2024 free rules) Even if you somehow conclude that these sources tell us that divine smite is part of the same instance of damage, that does not remotely matter, as agonizing blast acts on the damage rolls. (2024 free rules)
That's a good point, but I still see no reason why a spell can't have multiple damage rolls simultaneously. I would, however, like to point out that eldritch blast has an instantaneous duration.
divine smite tells you the target takes extra damage from the attack. Even if you somehow conclude this means divine smite is not part of the same instance of damage, that does not remotely matter, as Agonizing Blast affect Warlock cantrip, not Paladin 1st level spell.
Even though Eldritch Blast is instantaneous, at higher level you can make multiple attacks.
The rules glossary make several references to an instance of damage, to which extra damage roll is added as part of, not it's own seperate one.
Many cantrips for example deal extra damage dice at higher levels, yet should be the same instance of damage. Same if you add extra damage from Smite, Hex, Hunther's Mark, Sneak Attack etc....
The only references I could find were in damage thresholds, resistance, stat blocks, and vulnerability. (2024 free rules) Even if you somehow conclude that these sources tell us that divine smite is part of the same instance of damage, that does not remotely matter, as agonizing blast acts on the damage rolls. (2024 free rules)
That's a good point, but I still see no reason why a spell can't have multiple damage rolls simultaneously. I would, however, like to point out that eldritch blast has an instantaneous duration.
divine smite tells you the target takes extra damage from the attack. Even if you somehow conclude this means divine smite is not part of the same instance of damage, that does not remotely matter, as Agonizing Blast affect Warlock cantrip, not Paladin 1st level spell.
Even though Eldritch Blast is instantaneous, at higher level you can make multiple attacks.
To quote myself, "The logic goes as follows: the damage from true strike comes as a result of the casting. Therefore, it is the spell's damage roll. Divine smite makes the target take extra damage from the attack. Therefore, since the damage comes "from" the cantrip, it is the cantrip's damage."
I'm not sure of your next point. Eldritch blast's duration remains instantaneous at higher levels.
To quote myself, "The logic goes as follows: the damage from true strike comes as a result of the casting. Therefore, it is the spell's damage roll. Divine smite makes the target take extra damage from the attack. Therefore, since the damage comes "from" the cantrip, it is the cantrip's damage."
1) That logic is specious. I can't imagine any reasonable DM allowing Agonizing Strike to apply to spells and other features other than Warlock cantrips. It's only for Warlock cantrips.
2) Even if it were true, and you could treat Divine Smite (or Sneak Attack, Hunter's Mark, Hex...) as all bundled under the same attack, it would still all be one single damage roll, and only get the Agonizing Blast bonus once. Not once per spell or feature, and certainly not once per individual die.
3) Everyone in this thread, except you, thinks your interpretation is wrong. You are not going to convince them, even if you've convinced yourself. The person to convince is your DM.
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I forgot the S it's plurial Damage Rolls
I don't believe that proves anything. It says "Each weapon, spell, and damaging monster ability specifies the damage it deals." Note the singular for spell.
Yes divine smite specify the damage it deals ''an extra 2d8 Radiant damage from the attack.'' Note the last part.
Can someone, then, decide whether to use divine smite based on the outcome of the damage roll?
You use it immediately after hitting a target, not after making a damage roll against it.
It is stated, "On a hit, you roll damage..." It is kind of vague, but this doesn't seem to be "after hitting a target", but rather when you hit a target.
If it helps, and I know not everybody will agree, this is how I rule it: the key to knowing if Agonizing Blast applies to one of your Warlock cantrips is checking whether the cantrip involves a spell's damage rolls, as stated in the Eldritch Invocation.
And the weapon attack in True Strike is not a spell's damage roll. At best (also debatable), it might apply to the extra Radiant damage at higher levels (5+).
I think the part about what's considered a Warlock (or any other class) spell has been clarified in the thread, and others:
Yeah, that's true, and if it's helpful for the OP, some people explained the usage of "extra" and "increase" here: True Strike + Agonizing clarification - Rules & Game Mechanics
The following text is mine:
The specified timing of divine smite is 1 Bonus Action Which you take immediately after hitting a target with a Melee weapon or an Unarmed Strike.
Sorry, I didn't specify. That is talking about damage rolls when you make an attack.
This is really getting into the weeds here. What difference does this make to the original question?
pronouns: he/she/they
Whether divine smite is part of the same damage roll, or a different one.
So, just so I understand here: your argument is that Divine Smite's damage roll is a different damage roll from the attack's main damage roll, but at the same time it's still a part of the True Strike damage roll, and should therefore get the Charisma modifier added to it?
pronouns: he/she/they
Yes - a spell can have more than one damage roll.
The rules glossary make several references to an instance of damage, to which extra damage roll is added as part of, not it's own seperate one.
Many cantrips for example deal extra damage dice at higher levels, yet should be the same instance of damage. Same if you add extra damage from Smite, Hex, Hunther's Mark, Sneak Attack etc....
Spells dealing more than one instance of damage are usually delayed or staggerred, such as Eldritch Blast, Witch Bolt, Cloud of Daggers etc...
Those aren't extra damage.
The only references I could find were in damage thresholds, resistance, stat blocks, and vulnerability. (2024 free rules) Even if you somehow conclude that these sources tell us that divine smite is part of the same instance of damage, that does not remotely matter, as agonizing blast acts on the damage rolls. (2024 free rules)
That's a good point, but I still see no reason why a spell can't have multiple damage rolls simultaneously. I would, however, like to point out that eldritch blast has an instantaneous duration.
divine smite tells you the target takes extra damage from the attack. Even if you somehow conclude this means divine smite is not part of the same instance of damage, that does not remotely matter, as Agonizing Blast affect Warlock cantrip, not Paladin 1st level spell.
Even though Eldritch Blast is instantaneous, at higher level you can make multiple attacks.
To quote myself, "The logic goes as follows: the damage from true strike comes as a result of the casting. Therefore, it is the spell's damage roll. Divine smite makes the target take extra damage from the attack. Therefore, since the damage comes "from" the cantrip, it is the cantrip's damage."
I'm not sure of your next point. Eldritch blast's duration remains instantaneous at higher levels.
1) That logic is specious. I can't imagine any reasonable DM allowing Agonizing Strike to apply to spells and other features other than Warlock cantrips. It's only for Warlock cantrips.
2) Even if it were true, and you could treat Divine Smite (or Sneak Attack, Hunter's Mark, Hex...) as all bundled under the same attack, it would still all be one single damage roll, and only get the Agonizing Blast bonus once. Not once per spell or feature, and certainly not once per individual die.
3) Everyone in this thread, except you, thinks your interpretation is wrong. You are not going to convince them, even if you've convinced yourself. The person to convince is your DM.