I need to read it in detail and do a closer version-to-version comparison but...I kinda hate it.
One of the things I really hate is moving the Extra Attack from the Thirsting Blade invocation into the pact blade spell. This is terrible design; it costs the warlock a spell slot every day. And it's weird to decouple it from the Hexblade patron.
I also really hate the increased spell slots. Frankly, it's too many/not enough. They should've just tied spell slots to PB.
ETA 1: No more recovery of spells after a short rest. Hate it.
Turning the pact boons into cantrips that require 1 hour to cast is a really weird design choice, I do not understand why they did that? Like... does this mean a Bard could pick up Pact of the Blade with their Magical Secrets??? Can you get both Pact of the Blade and Pact of the Tome as your two cantrips with Magic Initiate?
Same goes for the Wizard class features that are inexplicably spells now... why???? Unless it is so that these class features can be turned into feats so that anyone can pick up these spells / cantrips, I really don't see why it makes sense to design it this way...
Other than a few more spell slots, was anyone really screaming for this kind of overhaul on the warlock? It just feels like change for the sake of change.
There were quite a few who wanted Intelligence as a possible casting stat instead of Cha (though why did they include Wis as an option? signing a pact with an other worldly entity is one of the least wise things you can do). But I don't know of anyone who wanted the Warlock to be a half-caster.
Also they've made the 1-level Warlock dips even worse, since you can get a weapon that uses Wis or Cha for attack/damage rolls for a 1 level dip.
I don't have a problem with the change to primary ability score. (I also never had a problem with CHA being the primary ability score.)
When you say "half caster," do you mean the 2014 version or the UA version? The scarcity of slots has been a defining aspect of the class. I agree that the 2014 version is too scarce but this change feels, to me, like too far in the other direction.
I am not against some of these changes. Half of my problems are with the awful spell progression. I mean by the time you get access to certain levelled spells other classes have had them forever anyway. It’s basically forcing them to double down into being an eldritch blast bot. I am also real conflicted on the hex changes. Damage scaling but once per turn? That makes it no better than before? 5th level spell to do 3d6 once we turn? How is that worth it?
I don't have a problem with the change to primary ability score. (I also never had a problem with CHA being the primary ability score.)
When you say "half caster," do you mean the 2014 version or the UA version? The scarcity of slots has been a defining aspect of the class. I agree that the 2014 version is too scarce but this change feels, to me, like too far in the other direction.
I disagree that the 2014 version is too scarce. All that needed changing for the 2014 version in terms of spell slot economy was to make Hex not require a spell slot. Take the favoured enemy feature from Ranger and convert that into "Hex" for Warlock and you'd have a great class. The scarcity of slots but high level of the slots is what made Warlock interesting and unique. Now... it's an Arcane version of a Ranger.
Then thinking about it more this means your no longer locked into eldritch blast builds.
Sadly you are inforrect, while it reduces the discrepancy between EB and other cantrips, EB is still significantly better assuming you take Agonizing Blast b/c of the multiple application of your Charisma modifier which effectively doubles the damage of each ray.
I am not at all a fan of every warlock being forced to take EB and Hex. This is literally the opposite of the direction I wanted them to go with the class
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Active characters:
Carric Aquissar, elven wannabe artist in his deconstructionist period (Archfey warlock) Lan Kidogo, mapach archaeologist and treasure hunter (Knowledge cleric) Mardan Ferres, elven private investigator obsessed with that one unsolved murder (Assassin rogue) Xhekhetiel, halfling survivor of a Betrayer Gods cult (Runechild sorcerer/fighter)
I don't have a problem with the change to primary ability score. (I also never had a problem with CHA being the primary ability score.)
When you say "half caster," do you mean the 2014 version or the UA version? The scarcity of slots has been a defining aspect of the class. I agree that the 2014 version is too scarce but this change feels, to me, like too far in the other direction.
I disagree that the 2014 version is too scarce. All that needed changing for the 2014 version in terms of spell slot economy was to make Hex not require a spell slot. Take the favoured enemy feature from Ranger and convert that into "Hex" for Warlock and you'd have a great class. The scarcity of slots but high level of the slots is what made Warlock interesting and unique. Now... it's an Arcane version of a Ranger.
Respectfully disagree. Hex is fine at lower levels, but if your warlock is at all inclined to wade into melee, spirit shroud or shadow of moil are much better choices once they're available to the character.
It really feels like they've just make wizard/sorc/warlock more samey, rather than trying to find ways to emphasize their differences
In 5e, I viewed wizards as the arcane casters whose power and utility came from having access to basically All the Spells; the power and utility of sorcs came from their ability to tweak their spells as needed; and a warlock's power and utility came from having ways to access arcane effects outside the spell slot system via invocations and arcanum
Now wizards can tweak their spells and warlocks have normal spell slots
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Active characters:
Carric Aquissar, elven wannabe artist in his deconstructionist period (Archfey warlock) Lan Kidogo, mapach archaeologist and treasure hunter (Knowledge cleric) Mardan Ferres, elven private investigator obsessed with that one unsolved murder (Assassin rogue) Xhekhetiel, halfling survivor of a Betrayer Gods cult (Runechild sorcerer/fighter)
Since Mystic Arcanum is an Eldritch Invocation and you can get a 3rd or higher level spell you can build a real versatile caster even if the 5th level spells are only available at 17th. you can have your first at 9th.
Over all the spellcasting is broader than 2014. shifting the Extra attack to be part and parcel of the cantrip mean you don't have to dedicate 1 invocation to getting your extra attack freeing it up for something else.
having EB as a freebee makes your cantrip choices super open for niche things, even a Bladelock needs to have some ranged option and now not having to dedicate EB as a pick you could have some utility (mage hand, prestidigitation, ray of frost, shocking grasp) this opens up building options way more IMHO.
Building a Superduper spellcaster is really neat not a Pact of the Tome Warlock with Mystic Initiate as a background will have an arsenal of 5 Cantrips (6 if you count book of shadows). and 4 1st level spells. This balloons to 8 prepared spells at 3rd level. with 3 normal casts 1 limited (magic initiate)
now not having to dedicate EB as a pick you could have some utility (mage hand, prestidigitation, ray of frost, shocking grasp) this opens up building options way more IMHO
The solution to people feeling forced to take EB was to provide viable alternatives, not to actually force every warlock to have EB
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Active characters:
Carric Aquissar, elven wannabe artist in his deconstructionist period (Archfey warlock) Lan Kidogo, mapach archaeologist and treasure hunter (Knowledge cleric) Mardan Ferres, elven private investigator obsessed with that one unsolved murder (Assassin rogue) Xhekhetiel, halfling survivor of a Betrayer Gods cult (Runechild sorcerer/fighter)
If I had my way, Sorcerer would be the class with multiple casting stat options and be the go-to multiclass, but I'm cool with it being Warlock as well, both are pretty versatile. I like the changes to the Blade Pact as well, especially now that all warlocks get medium armor and Hexblade is no longer the only viable bladelock.
That's a valid point, I'm just assuming all warlocks have Eldritch blast as that's kind of their base function (like Druids can wild shape, and clerics can cast cure wounds, etc.)
I would have loved a more crazy warlock Pactbinder type class (like the Pact Binder from the Tome of Magic, those classes were damn fun)
Overall I hate it. I think the level one pact boons have some promise in that they basically include the core needed invocations for the pacts, but that is about it. Though they need some clarification on how those "cantrips" work with other casters and things like magic secrets etc. 1/2 caster with mystic arcanum as a repeated invocation is lame. Hex scaling to 3d6 but still requiring concentration sucks the ranger route of no concentration was needed. Hex is how they had their baseline damage but needing concentration meant it was never used. Another 2d6 wont change that outside pure DPR builds. They kept really poorly designed invocations like alter self at will at 15th level while change self at will is level 1, jump spell at will at level 9, those sucking hasn't been a secret the last 5 years. And heck I don't think warlock should have medium armor as a default, they are not rangers, honestly don't think they should have light armor even.
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I need to read it in detail and do a closer version-to-version comparison but...I kinda hate it.
One of the things I really hate is moving the Extra Attack from the Thirsting Blade invocation into the pact blade spell. This is terrible design; it costs the warlock a spell slot every day. And it's weird to decouple it from the Hexblade patron.
I also really hate the increased spell slots. Frankly, it's too many/not enough. They should've just tied spell slots to PB.
ETA 1: No more recovery of spells after a short rest. Hate it.
Pact Blade is a cantrip.
Canto alla vita
alla sua bellezza
ad ogni sua ferita
ogni sua carezza!
I sing to life and to its tragic beauty
To pain and to strife, but all that dances through me
The rise and the fall, I've lived through it all!
I stand corrected!
But it's still dumb.
Turning the pact boons into cantrips that require 1 hour to cast is a really weird design choice, I do not understand why they did that? Like... does this mean a Bard could pick up Pact of the Blade with their Magical Secrets??? Can you get both Pact of the Blade and Pact of the Tome as your two cantrips with Magic Initiate?
Same goes for the Wizard class features that are inexplicably spells now... why???? Unless it is so that these class features can be turned into feats so that anyone can pick up these spells / cantrips, I really don't see why it makes sense to design it this way...
Other than a few more spell slots, was anyone really screaming for this kind of overhaul on the warlock? It just feels like change for the sake of change.
There were quite a few who wanted Intelligence as a possible casting stat instead of Cha (though why did they include Wis as an option? signing a pact with an other worldly entity is one of the least wise things you can do). But I don't know of anyone who wanted the Warlock to be a half-caster.
Also they've made the 1-level Warlock dips even worse, since you can get a weapon that uses Wis or Cha for attack/damage rolls for a 1 level dip.
I don't have a problem with the change to primary ability score. (I also never had a problem with CHA being the primary ability score.)
When you say "half caster," do you mean the 2014 version or the UA version? The scarcity of slots has been a defining aspect of the class. I agree that the 2014 version is too scarce but this change feels, to me, like too far in the other direction.
I am not against some of these changes. Half of my problems are with the awful spell progression. I mean by the time you get access to certain levelled spells other classes have had them forever anyway. It’s basically forcing them to double down into being an eldritch blast bot. I am also real conflicted on the hex changes. Damage scaling but once per turn? That makes it no better than before? 5th level spell to do 3d6 once we turn? How is that worth it?
Hex now does the extra damage once per turns and the damage increases on spell slot used.
First I went this is a NERF.
Then thinking about it more this means your no longer locked into eldritch blast builds.
I disagree that the 2014 version is too scarce. All that needed changing for the 2014 version in terms of spell slot economy was to make Hex not require a spell slot. Take the favoured enemy feature from Ranger and convert that into "Hex" for Warlock and you'd have a great class. The scarcity of slots but high level of the slots is what made Warlock interesting and unique. Now... it's an Arcane version of a Ranger.
Sadly you are inforrect, while it reduces the discrepancy between EB and other cantrips, EB is still significantly better assuming you take Agonizing Blast b/c of the multiple application of your Charisma modifier which effectively doubles the damage of each ray.
I am not at all a fan of every warlock being forced to take EB and Hex. This is literally the opposite of the direction I wanted them to go with the class
Active characters:
Carric Aquissar, elven wannabe artist in his deconstructionist period (Archfey warlock)
Lan Kidogo, mapach archaeologist and treasure hunter (Knowledge cleric)
Mardan Ferres, elven private investigator obsessed with that one unsolved murder (Assassin rogue)
Xhekhetiel, halfling survivor of a Betrayer Gods cult (Runechild sorcerer/fighter)
Man, I thought the redesign of Warlock was going to be focused on discouraging one level dips. This sure does not accomplish that.
Respectfully disagree. Hex is fine at lower levels, but if your warlock is at all inclined to wade into melee, spirit shroud or shadow of moil are much better choices once they're available to the character.
How do you mean ?
With the changes to Hex and book of shadows, Tome warlocks are now freed up to use other cantrips.
It really feels like they've just make wizard/sorc/warlock more samey, rather than trying to find ways to emphasize their differences
In 5e, I viewed wizards as the arcane casters whose power and utility came from having access to basically All the Spells; the power and utility of sorcs came from their ability to tweak their spells as needed; and a warlock's power and utility came from having ways to access arcane effects outside the spell slot system via invocations and arcanum
Now wizards can tweak their spells and warlocks have normal spell slots
Active characters:
Carric Aquissar, elven wannabe artist in his deconstructionist period (Archfey warlock)
Lan Kidogo, mapach archaeologist and treasure hunter (Knowledge cleric)
Mardan Ferres, elven private investigator obsessed with that one unsolved murder (Assassin rogue)
Xhekhetiel, halfling survivor of a Betrayer Gods cult (Runechild sorcerer/fighter)
I love the new Warlock.
Their spellcasting is very very different.
Since Mystic Arcanum is an Eldritch Invocation and you can get a 3rd or higher level spell you can build a real versatile caster even if the 5th level spells are only available at 17th. you can have your first at 9th.
Over all the spellcasting is broader than 2014. shifting the Extra attack to be part and parcel of the cantrip mean you don't have to dedicate 1 invocation to getting your extra attack freeing it up for something else.
having EB as a freebee makes your cantrip choices super open for niche things, even a Bladelock needs to have some ranged option and now not having to dedicate EB as a pick you could have some utility (mage hand, prestidigitation, ray of frost, shocking grasp) this opens up building options way more IMHO.
Building a Superduper spellcaster is really neat not a Pact of the Tome Warlock with Mystic Initiate as a background will have an arsenal of 5 Cantrips (6 if you count book of shadows). and 4 1st level spells. This balloons to 8 prepared spells at 3rd level. with 3 normal casts 1 limited (magic initiate)
The solution to people feeling forced to take EB was to provide viable alternatives, not to actually force every warlock to have EB
Active characters:
Carric Aquissar, elven wannabe artist in his deconstructionist period (Archfey warlock)
Lan Kidogo, mapach archaeologist and treasure hunter (Knowledge cleric)
Mardan Ferres, elven private investigator obsessed with that one unsolved murder (Assassin rogue)
Xhekhetiel, halfling survivor of a Betrayer Gods cult (Runechild sorcerer/fighter)
If I had my way, Sorcerer would be the class with multiple casting stat options and be the go-to multiclass, but I'm cool with it being Warlock as well, both are pretty versatile. I like the changes to the Blade Pact as well, especially now that all warlocks get medium armor and Hexblade is no longer the only viable bladelock.
That's a valid point, I'm just assuming all warlocks have Eldritch blast as that's kind of their base function (like Druids can wild shape, and clerics can cast cure wounds, etc.)
I would have loved a more crazy warlock Pactbinder type class (like the Pact Binder from the Tome of Magic, those classes were damn fun)
Overall I hate it. I think the level one pact boons have some promise in that they basically include the core needed invocations for the pacts, but that is about it. Though they need some clarification on how those "cantrips" work with other casters and things like magic secrets etc. 1/2 caster with mystic arcanum as a repeated invocation is lame. Hex scaling to 3d6 but still requiring concentration sucks the ranger route of no concentration was needed. Hex is how they had their baseline damage but needing concentration meant it was never used. Another 2d6 wont change that outside pure DPR builds. They kept really poorly designed invocations like alter self at will at 15th level while change self at will is level 1, jump spell at will at level 9, those sucking hasn't been a secret the last 5 years. And heck I don't think warlock should have medium armor as a default, they are not rangers, honestly don't think they should have light armor even.