And heck I don't think warlock should have medium armor as a default, they are not rangers, honestly don't think they should have light armor even.
"Melee warlocks should be able to use medium armor. We should add that to Pact of the Blade" "But we just turned all the core functionality of Pact of the Blade into a cantrip" "Oh, erm, right. Well, they all get medium armor now then"
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Active characters:
Carric Aquissar, elven wannabe artist in his deconstructionist period (Archfey warlock) Mardan Ferres, elven private investigator obsessed with that one unsolved murder (Assassin rogue) Xhekhetiel, halfling survivor of a Betrayer Gods cult (Runechild sorcerer/fighter)
Switching the levels at which pact and patron are chosen seems like a huge mistake. For the 2014 version, Crawford has said that it's assumed whatever bargain/agreement was made for the warlock to gain their powers was done. Of course, that could be role-played IF the DM and player wished to. But the assumption in design is that whatever the contract required - whether as something as awful as a soul (the warlock's or someone else's) or something more practical (retrieving a magic item), it was over and done when the character's "life" started for the player.
Now, with the patron being chosen at 3rd level, it seems more incumbent on the DM and player to RP that all out. Again, of course you don't have to but to simply hand-wave something that big while the character is actively adventuring - seems to cheapen the character and the flavor of the class.
I feel like the fixes for warlock could've been much, much simpler. Slots tied to PB. Making hex a class feature. Allowing for spellcasting ability flexibility. That's it. You can leave virtually everything else as-is.
And as someone else said: it feels like they're making the warlock more like every other caster. The lack of flavor here is discouraging.
And heck I don't think warlock should have medium armor as a default, they are not rangers, honestly don't think they should have light armor even.
"Melee warlocks should be able to use medium armor. We should add that to Pact of the Blade" "But we just turned all the core functionality of Pact of the Blade into a cantrip" "Oh, erm, right. Well, they all get medium armor now then"
Heck add into the cantrip armor summoning and i'm fine with it. But most non pact of the blade warlocks are more pure caster vibes.
Watched their video on it and their justification for the switch to paladin like 1/2 caster and their excuse was lame, people complained it was too hard to get short rests. Maybe make getting short rests easier then, or build into the warlock a 5-10 minute ritual to refresh their spells. But to toss out everything that made them unique is just a terrible decision.
Edit to add as an aside, hey I dig pact of the tomes ritual magic function but warlocks are probably thematically the most ritually class in the game, why rituals are not a default for them I don't know. I did a bunch of research into ritual stuff and I cast the ritual to contact a being from beyond for power but I don't know how to cast rituals.
I have mixed feelings with the warlock. I don't mind his new magic system, but I think he should scale faster than a half caster. I don't know, that he scales as a full caster up to level 10 and then he stops getting spell slots. That a magic-based class doesn't get its lvl 3 spells up to level 9 (when other casters already have their level 5 spells), seems like a mistake to me.
It also has changes that I really like, like the spell ability variable. But the fact that his magic scales like a half casters smells pretty bad to me, really. In addition to the curious situation that you can learn level 5 spells with your mystic arcanum at level 9, but you don't have level 4 spell slots yet. It's like...weird.
With warlock being my favorite class. Going full lock multiple times with fey, GOO, Genie and fathomless. This change makes me sick to my stomache. It straight up feels like the death of an old friend. This sucks.
I have mixed feelings with the warlock. I don't mind his new magic system, but I think he should scale faster than a half caster. I don't know, that he scales as a full caster up to level 10 and then he stops getting spell slots. That a magic-based class doesn't get its lvl 3 spells up to level 9 (when other casters already have their level 5 spells), seems like a mistake to me.
It also has changes that I really like, like the spell ability variable. But the fact that his magic scales like a half casters smells pretty bad to me, really. In addition to the curious situation that you can learn level 5 spells with your mystic arcanum at level 9, but you don't have level 4 spell slots yet. It's like...weird.
That scaling is the largest issue. They scale the spells assuming everyone is playing pact of the blade and focusing on melee like some arcane ranger, which messes up the other 'spell focused' pacts. Sure, you can spend every one of your eldritch invocations to actually gain access to the appropriate spells at the appropriate levels but then you are just playing a really weak sorc/wiz.
With warlock being my favorite class. Going full lock multiple times with fey, GOO, Genie and fathomless. This change makes me sick to my stomache. It straight up feels like the death of an old friend. This sucks.
i have to agree with you there i absolutely despise it more than any other change
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if i say something inflammatory the intention is not to trigger an emotional response and the fact that it does so is purely accidental and I sincerely apologise if it does
Turning the pact boons into cantrips that require 1 hour to cast is a really weird design choice, I do not understand why they did that? Like... does this mean a Bard could pick up Pact of the Blade with their Magical Secrets??? Can you get both Pact of the Blade and Pact of the Tome as your two cantrips with Magic Initiate?
Same goes for the Wizard class features that are inexplicably spells now... why???? Unless it is so that these class features can be turned into feats so that anyone can pick up these spells / cantrips, I really don't see why it makes sense to design it this way...
I haven't gotten all the way through but I assume if they are class specific they are not on a spell list for the bard to choose from (arcane, divine, primal). Like saying, can the bard pick up Fangs of the Fire Snake from the Four Elements Monk (ok, not quite since it isn't a spell, but you get what I mean, I hope)
I will say I never played a warlock because I hated the idea of so few slots. They never appealed to me but that was ok. I preferred ranger play styles but now ONE warlock gained more appeal than ranger(from my perspective). This is not good IMO.
now, It seems to me, they have ruined ranger for general appeal and they have ruined druid for general appeal and they have ruined warlock for general appeal. Now depending on how the original classes interact with the old ones It "might" change my view but the rules errata has a high chance to upset OG5e class balance too.
"but at least paladins and wizard classes get shiny features right? " insert sarcastic tone.
I will say I never played a warlock because I hated the idea of so few slots.
The trick is that the slots aren't actually the core of the character mechanically. It's what you built around them via Pact Boon, Invocations etc that make the difference, and then you have the slots in your back pocket if you need them
Other casters get more slots. Warlocks just cast detect magic at will (or whatever) rather than using a 1st-level slot on it
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Active characters:
Carric Aquissar, elven wannabe artist in his deconstructionist period (Archfey warlock) Mardan Ferres, elven private investigator obsessed with that one unsolved murder (Assassin rogue) Xhekhetiel, halfling survivor of a Betrayer Gods cult (Runechild sorcerer/fighter)
**** Pact Magic. Pact Magic has always been ******* awful. You never get to use any cool game-changer utility magic, your EVERY ******* SPELL has to be something that scales strongly to spell level or the Internet sends commando teams to your game room to break your knees and it's terrible. You get to cast leveled spells exactly twice per day because short rests don't exist and never have, and those spells always have to be some kind of blasty scaling-damage-dice thing because that's the only way to make your high-level pact slot worth spending. It's ******* garbage and I didn't realize how much I hated it until I saw this new version with magic that actually makes sense.
Improved emphasis on Invocations? Variable spellcasting ability? Blade Pact actually viable without Hexblade? I heartily love this revision of the warlock and am already super pissed y'all are going to ruin it and force us to deal with ****mothering Pact Magic for another ten years. Warlocks not able to cast any spells other than garbage damage-blasty spells for another ten years? Apparently check, despite it being exactly the wrong decision. ******* ****.
I like the new version. More spell slots than before. Mystic Arcanum now starts earlier so there is an equivalent means to get the older Eldritch Invocation (such as Bewitching Whispers, Sculptor of Flesh), patron spells are now known (one free cast, can use a spell slot), there is a great deal of flexibility and I can see how to make the same 5E Warlock in the UA. Multiclassing changed to be based on Warlock level for EB.
I will say I never played a warlock because I hated the idea of so few slots.
The trick is that the slots aren't actually the core of the character mechanically. It's what you built around them via Pact Boon, Invocations etc that make the difference, and then you have the slots in your back pocket if you need them
Other casters get more slots. Warlocks just cast detect magic at will (or whatever) rather than using a 1st-level slot on it
I understand the theory, i just didn't find it a fun character to build around. Like i said warlock design wasn't for me. just like PHB ranger wasn't for everybody. that is not a bad thing as long as every style has a place.
now depending on "compatibility" there might be a place for everyone or there might not.
**** Pact Magic. Pact Magic has always been ******* awful. You never get to use any cool game-changer utility magic, your EVERY ******* SPELL has to be something that scales strongly to spell level or the Internet sends commando teams to your game room to break your knees and it's terrible. You get to cast leveled spells exactly twice per day because short rests don't exist and never have, and those spells always have to be some kind of blasty scaling-damage-dice thing because that's the only way to make your high-level pact slot worth spending. It's ******* garbage and I didn't realize how much I hated it until I saw this new version with magic that actually makes sense.
Improved emphasis on Invocations? Variable spellcasting ability? Blade Pact actually viable without Hexblade? I heartily love this revision of the warlock and am already super pissed y'all are going to ruin it and force us to deal with ****mothering Pact Magic for another ten years. Warlocks not able to cast any spells other than garbage damage-blasty spells for another ten years? Apparently check, despite it being exactly the wrong decision. ******* ****.
I am going to agree with one thing. Pact magic NEEDED changing. The short rest issue was REAL. But I do not know what this warlock is doing outside of being a 1 level dip. 1 level pact of blade + ranger or Paladin. Makss those classes SAD.
If it is going to be a half caster AND eldritch blast is going to scale with warlock levels AND invocations are supposed to be the locks special thing.... why is agonizing blast still an invocation tax.
I used out of combat utility spells ALL THE TIME. they were the main use of pact magic. Because you could cast them without actually losing a slot needed for combat in the right game.
But you are 100% right pact magic was not good for the table... but if it is going to be this invocations NEED help. Otherworldly leap needs to be a first level invocation. Whispers of the grave, misty visions and mask of many faces are all prime examples of what should be in those invocations. If there was a way to add "utility tag" to spells and just make an invocation that says choose one spell with the utility tag of a level you can cast. You can cast that spell without using a spell slot.
I genuinely wonder about the kind of games being run when the party isn't able to short rest at least once in a day as a regular thing. I don't mean this in a snide or critical way; I come from the old school "killer DM" tradition and even then, it's very difficult for me to imagine running a game when the party can consistently count on nevergetting a short rest in during the adventuring day.
**** Pact Magic. Pact Magic has always been ******* awful. You never get to use any cool game-changer utility magic, your EVERY ******* SPELL has to be something that scales strongly to spell level or the Internet sends commando teams to your game room to break your knees and it's terrible. You get to cast leveled spells exactly twice per day because short rests don't exist and never have, and those spells always have to be some kind of blasty scaling-damage-dice thing because that's the only way to make your high-level pact slot worth spending. It's ******* garbage and I didn't realize how much I hated it until I saw this new version with magic that actually makes sense.
Improved emphasis on Invocations? Variable spellcasting ability? Blade Pact actually viable without Hexblade? I heartily love this revision of the warlock and am already super pissed y'all are going to ruin it and force us to deal with ****mothering Pact Magic for another ten years. Warlocks not able to cast any spells other than garbage damage-blasty spells for another ten years? Apparently check, despite it being exactly the wrong decision. ******* ****.
Uhh?? Sorry we aren’t all bowing to your view of what is right. We ain’t ruining this for you? We are providing our view which is damn well as valid as yours. But chill out a bit.
Sure there are some good parts here. I love the variable stat choice for casting. I like some of the reworked eldritch invocations. I like some Of what they did here.
I HATE this baby pact idea. It forces some sort of arbitrary story that is really shoehorned in. I hate the awful spell progression. I hate that we get one more invocation but if we want to be a full on caster with higher level spells we need to spend more than we got on mystic arcanum and come out with less overall.
the old warlock needed work. Pact magic was a fun but flawed idea and it needed changing. But this ain’t it. They should hit 5th level spells the same as any other caster. It should cap at that. Their spell slots/whatever they end up with need to be different. Give them spell points instead of slots for all I care. But don’t neuter their spell progression to paladin levels and give them nothing that remotely closes that gap. Give them more invocations if we are going to have to spend them on mystic arcanum. Just… ughh. This feels like a warlock rework from those that don’t play warlock but heard about the problems. Not enough spells? Have more but now they are bad. No one uses hex? Let’s make it do more damage but limit it to once a turn? On the ONLY multi shot per turn caster?
I think they need to keep some of this. There is some gold here. But man there are some parts that don’t fit well at all and do not feel good.
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"Melee warlocks should be able to use medium armor. We should add that to Pact of the Blade"
"But we just turned all the core functionality of Pact of the Blade into a cantrip"
"Oh, erm, right. Well, they all get medium armor now then"
Active characters:
Carric Aquissar, elven wannabe artist in his deconstructionist period (Archfey warlock)
Mardan Ferres, elven private investigator obsessed with that one unsolved murder (Assassin rogue)
Xhekhetiel, halfling survivor of a Betrayer Gods cult (Runechild sorcerer/fighter)
Switching the levels at which pact and patron are chosen seems like a huge mistake. For the 2014 version, Crawford has said that it's assumed whatever bargain/agreement was made for the warlock to gain their powers was done. Of course, that could be role-played IF the DM and player wished to. But the assumption in design is that whatever the contract required - whether as something as awful as a soul (the warlock's or someone else's) or something more practical (retrieving a magic item), it was over and done when the character's "life" started for the player.
Now, with the patron being chosen at 3rd level, it seems more incumbent on the DM and player to RP that all out. Again, of course you don't have to but to simply hand-wave something that big while the character is actively adventuring - seems to cheapen the character and the flavor of the class.
I feel like the fixes for warlock could've been much, much simpler. Slots tied to PB. Making hex a class feature. Allowing for spellcasting ability flexibility. That's it. You can leave virtually everything else as-is.
And as someone else said: it feels like they're making the warlock more like every other caster. The lack of flavor here is discouraging.
They’ve ruined Warlocks. That’s it, they’ve just ruined them.
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Heck add into the cantrip armor summoning and i'm fine with it. But most non pact of the blade warlocks are more pure caster vibes.
Another problem in the warlock that I noticed is Hex Master.
As it is worded it lets you cast hex as a 1st level spell at will.
But now the damage scales with the spell level that makes it really bad.
I guess this should have the line " as a 5th level spell added"
Watched their video on it and their justification for the switch to paladin like 1/2 caster and their excuse was lame, people complained it was too hard to get short rests. Maybe make getting short rests easier then, or build into the warlock a 5-10 minute ritual to refresh their spells. But to toss out everything that made them unique is just a terrible decision.
Edit to add as an aside, hey I dig pact of the tomes ritual magic function but warlocks are probably thematically the most ritually class in the game, why rituals are not a default for them I don't know. I did a bunch of research into ritual stuff and I cast the ritual to contact a being from beyond for power but I don't know how to cast rituals.
I have mixed feelings with the warlock. I don't mind his new magic system, but I think he should scale faster than a half caster. I don't know, that he scales as a full caster up to level 10 and then he stops getting spell slots. That a magic-based class doesn't get its lvl 3 spells up to level 9 (when other casters already have their level 5 spells), seems like a mistake to me.
It also has changes that I really like, like the spell ability variable. But the fact that his magic scales like a half casters smells pretty bad to me, really. In addition to the curious situation that you can learn level 5 spells with your mystic arcanum at level 9, but you don't have level 4 spell slots yet. It's like...weird.
With warlock being my favorite class. Going full lock multiple times with fey, GOO, Genie and fathomless. This change makes me sick to my stomache. It straight up feels like the death of an old friend. This sucks.
That scaling is the largest issue. They scale the spells assuming everyone is playing pact of the blade and focusing on melee like some arcane ranger, which messes up the other 'spell focused' pacts. Sure, you can spend every one of your eldritch invocations to actually gain access to the appropriate spells at the appropriate levels but then you are just playing a really weak sorc/wiz.
i have to agree with you there i absolutely despise it more than any other change
if i say something inflammatory the intention is not to trigger an emotional response and the fact that it does so is purely accidental and I sincerely apologise if it does
I haven't gotten all the way through but I assume if they are class specific they are not on a spell list for the bard to choose from (arcane, divine, primal). Like saying, can the bard pick up Fangs of the Fire Snake from the Four Elements Monk (ok, not quite since it isn't a spell, but you get what I mean, I hope)
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I will say I never played a warlock because I hated the idea of so few slots. They never appealed to me but that was ok. I preferred ranger play styles but now ONE warlock gained more appeal than ranger(from my perspective). This is not good IMO.
now, It seems to me, they have ruined ranger for general appeal and they have ruined druid for general appeal and they have ruined warlock for general appeal. Now depending on how the original classes interact with the old ones It "might" change my view but the rules errata has a high chance to upset OG5e class balance too.
"but at least paladins and wizard classes get shiny features right? " insert sarcastic tone.
The trick is that the slots aren't actually the core of the character mechanically. It's what you built around them via Pact Boon, Invocations etc that make the difference, and then you have the slots in your back pocket if you need them
Other casters get more slots. Warlocks just cast detect magic at will (or whatever) rather than using a 1st-level slot on it
Active characters:
Carric Aquissar, elven wannabe artist in his deconstructionist period (Archfey warlock)
Mardan Ferres, elven private investigator obsessed with that one unsolved murder (Assassin rogue)
Xhekhetiel, halfling survivor of a Betrayer Gods cult (Runechild sorcerer/fighter)
New warlock is fire.
**** Pact Magic. Pact Magic has always been ******* awful. You never get to use any cool game-changer utility magic, your EVERY ******* SPELL has to be something that scales strongly to spell level or the Internet sends commando teams to your game room to break your knees and it's terrible. You get to cast leveled spells exactly twice per day because short rests don't exist and never have, and those spells always have to be some kind of blasty scaling-damage-dice thing because that's the only way to make your high-level pact slot worth spending. It's ******* garbage and I didn't realize how much I hated it until I saw this new version with magic that actually makes sense.
Improved emphasis on Invocations? Variable spellcasting ability? Blade Pact actually viable without Hexblade? I heartily love this revision of the warlock and am already super pissed y'all are going to ruin it and force us to deal with ****mothering Pact Magic for another ten years. Warlocks not able to cast any spells other than garbage damage-blasty spells for another ten years? Apparently check, despite it being exactly the wrong decision. ******* ****.
Please do not contact or message me.
I like the new version. More spell slots than before. Mystic Arcanum now starts earlier so there is an equivalent means to get the older Eldritch Invocation (such as Bewitching Whispers, Sculptor of Flesh), patron spells are now known (one free cast, can use a spell slot), there is a great deal of flexibility and I can see how to make the same 5E Warlock in the UA. Multiclassing changed to be based on Warlock level for EB.
I understand the theory, i just didn't find it a fun character to build around. Like i said warlock design wasn't for me. just like PHB ranger wasn't for everybody. that is not a bad thing as long as every style has a place.
now depending on "compatibility" there might be a place for everyone or there might not.
I am going to agree with one thing. Pact magic NEEDED changing. The short rest issue was REAL. But I do not know what this warlock is doing outside of being a 1 level dip. 1 level pact of blade + ranger or Paladin. Makss those classes SAD.
If it is going to be a half caster AND eldritch blast is going to scale with warlock levels AND invocations are supposed to be the locks special thing.... why is agonizing blast still an invocation tax.
I used out of combat utility spells ALL THE TIME. they were the main use of pact magic. Because you could cast them without actually losing a slot needed for combat in the right game.
But you are 100% right pact magic was not good for the table... but if it is going to be this invocations NEED help. Otherworldly leap needs to be a first level invocation. Whispers of the grave, misty visions and mask of many faces are all prime examples of what should be in those invocations. If there was a way to add "utility tag" to spells and just make an invocation that says choose one spell with the utility tag of a level you can cast. You can cast that spell without using a spell slot.
I wonder how the coffee-lock enthusiasts are going to take the death of pact magic
I genuinely wonder about the kind of games being run when the party isn't able to short rest at least once in a day as a regular thing. I don't mean this in a snide or critical way; I come from the old school "killer DM" tradition and even then, it's very difficult for me to imagine running a game when the party can consistently count on never getting a short rest in during the adventuring day.
Uhh?? Sorry we aren’t all bowing to your view of what is right. We ain’t ruining this for you? We are providing our view which is damn well as valid as yours. But chill out a bit.
Sure there are some good parts here. I love the variable stat choice for casting. I like some of the reworked eldritch invocations. I like some Of what they did here.
I HATE this baby pact idea. It forces some sort of arbitrary story that is really shoehorned in. I hate the awful spell progression. I hate that we get one more invocation but if we want to be a full on caster with higher level spells we need to spend more than we got on mystic arcanum and come out with less overall.
the old warlock needed work. Pact magic was a fun but flawed idea and it needed changing. But this ain’t it. They should hit 5th level spells the same as any other caster. It should cap at that. Their spell slots/whatever they end up with need to be different. Give them spell points instead of slots for all I care. But don’t neuter their spell progression to paladin levels and give them nothing that remotely closes that gap. Give them more invocations if we are going to have to spend them on mystic arcanum. Just… ughh. This feels like a warlock rework from those that don’t play warlock but heard about the problems. Not enough spells? Have more but now they are bad. No one uses hex? Let’s make it do more damage but limit it to once a turn? On the ONLY multi shot per turn caster?
I think they need to keep some of this. There is some gold here. But man there are some parts that don’t fit well at all and do not feel good.