This makes so little sense as size has little impact on game mechanics. Specifically stealth doesn't really get easier with Size. Skill proficiency and biological stats and features are what actually determines
It kind of does get easier with smaller size, but in ways that aren't obvious due to how the rules are (a bit poorly) laid out and lacking in good examples.
A Tiny creature can much more easily Hide since objects that wouldn't provide cover to a Small or larger creature can block a Tiny one. Plus a DM is always free to hand out advantage when a player is making things easier for themselves; so a cat behaving like a cat (rather than clearly eavesdropping) might get advantage on Deception to hide in plain sight and so-on. You can do that as larger creatures too, but Tiny ones usually have more places that they can reasonably be (whereas an NPC might wonder why there's a cow in their basement).
I think the issue they're trying to address with tiny creatures is their ability to bypass most barriers the players could be put into. A spellcaster could be stripped of their spellcasting focus and tossed in a jail cell and will need to use creativity to escape... meanwhile, a druid who can turn tiny can just turn into a spider and crawl out. Got a locked door in your way? Turn into a cockroach and crawl under. Does the rogue need to sneak into a dangerous location? No reason not to turn into a mouse and hang out in their pocket, just in case they need a spellcaster to get them out of a sticky situation.
This makes so little sense as size has little impact on game mechanics. Specifically stealth doesn't really get easier with Size. Skill proficiency and biological stats and features are what actually determines
It kind of does get easier with smaller size, but in ways that aren't obvious due to how the rules are (a bit poorly) laid out and lacking in good examples.
A Tiny creature can much more easily Hide since objects that wouldn't provide cover to a Small or larger creature can block a Tiny one. Plus a DM is always free to hand out advantage when a player is making things easier for themselves; so a cat behaving like a cat (rather than clearly eavesdropping) might get advantage on Deception to hide in plain sight and so-on. You can do that as larger creatures too, but Tiny ones usually have more places that they can reasonably be (whereas an NPC might wonder why there's a cow in their basement).
I think the issue they're trying to address with tiny creatures is their ability to bypass most barriers the players could be put into. A spellcaster could be stripped of their spellcasting focus and tossed in a jail cell and will need to use creativity to escape... meanwhile, a druid who can turn tiny can just turn into a spider and crawl out. Got a locked door in your way? Turn into a cockroach and crawl under. Does the rogue need to sneak into a dangerous location? No reason not to turn into a mouse and hang out in their pocket, just in case they need a spellcaster to get them out of a sticky situation.
I mean that's a feature, not a bug (ahem)
D&D is for parties, not solo missions. If the druid can get out of the jail cell easily by wild shaping into a mouse, that's cool. They still have to figure out how to free their friends from outside the cell in mouse form, or drop it and risk getting caught by the guards
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Active characters:
Carric Aquissar, elven wannabe artist in his deconstructionist period (Archfey warlock) Lan Kidogo, mapach archaeologist and treasure hunter (Knowledge cleric) Mardan Ferres, elven private investigator obsessed with that one unsolved murder (Assassin rogue) Xhekhetiel, halfling survivor of a Betrayer Gods cult (Runechild sorcerer/fighter)
I definitely agree... I personally, even as a DM, am always happy when my players solve problems. If a particular challenge is easy for one specific player because of their class features, then I think that's a good thing. I often put challenges in games specifically knowing that one person can solve that problem easily, especially since that player can then feel cool as they quickly resolve something that leaves the rest of the players stumped.
"So, if I'm getting this right, the prevailing opinion is that they shouldn't be focused on Wild Shape because Wild Shape isn't that good. Not because it's not thematically strong enough, not because spellcasting necessarily fits the fantasy better, but because Wild Shape is unworkably weak. Is that it?"
The way I see it is that Wildshape can be quite strong and it arguably makes sense for one or two subclasses of Druid to focus on it. I don't think it's the best thematic fit for all Druids, though. It's also notably tough to balance. If you allow Druids to Wildshape into Monstrosities in Tier 3 and 4, that would make Wildshape more viable at the cost of possibly both weakening the stereotypical "nature" theme of Druids while also pushing Druid into becoming taking on roles that resemble those of the party Barbarian, Fighter, or Bladelock. This might also contribute to exclamations of "Druids OP! Please nerf!" Which I hear is part of the reason for the down-scaling of Druids from 3.5e to 5e as Dire forms of animals rarely appear in 5e.
I feel like there's room for a version of Druid that isn't even a spellcaster. Just a weird variant of warrior or expert that doesn't use manufactured weapons. Similar to Barbarian, it would have a "combat mode" but it would probably be weaker outside of that mode than the Barbarian is outside of Rage. It would be a hefty redesign that I'm not gonna try to do here, but I think it could work.
I feel like there's room for a version of Druid that isn't even a spellcaster. Just a weird variant of warrior or expert that doesn't use manufactured weapons. Similar to Barbarian, it would have a "combat mode" but it would probably be weaker outside of that mode than the Barbarian is outside of Rage. It would be a hefty redesign that I'm not gonna try to do here, but I think it could work.
Doesn't look like a popular idea though.
That seems like something that would be easier to do re-skinning ranger or monk, if it was the route I wanted to go as a player. Wouldn't necessarily need a new druid subclass for it
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Active characters:
Carric Aquissar, elven wannabe artist in his deconstructionist period (Archfey warlock) Lan Kidogo, mapach archaeologist and treasure hunter (Knowledge cleric) Mardan Ferres, elven private investigator obsessed with that one unsolved murder (Assassin rogue) Xhekhetiel, halfling survivor of a Betrayer Gods cult (Runechild sorcerer/fighter)
I feel like there's room for a version of Druid that isn't even a spellcaster. Just a weird variant of warrior or expert that doesn't use manufactured weapons. Similar to Barbarian, it would have a "combat mode" but it would probably be weaker outside of that mode than the Barbarian is outside of Rage. It would be a hefty redesign that I'm not gonna try to do here, but I think it could work.
Doesn't look like a popular idea though.
I've seen a proposal on another forum about adjusting the Moon Druid to have more powerful forms for Tier 3 and 4 at the cost of higher level spell slots. Is it possible to redesign that way? It would be a cool reimagining of a Moon Druid to be able to become a literal chimeral monster at the cost of some spellcasting, but the Class->Subclass system of PC advancement in 5e is not well suited to granular adjustments like that. Ideally, a person playing a Druid could spend points to "level up" Wildshape separately from from spellcasting and maybe also separate from their summoning ability as well. You could look at the Shadowrun RPG as an example of how to do this. However, that level of complexity is also part of the reason that not many people play Shadowrun compared to D&D. :(
I feel like there's room for a version of Druid that isn't even a spellcaster. Just a weird variant of warrior or expert that doesn't use manufactured weapons. Similar to Barbarian, it would have a "combat mode" but it would probably be weaker outside of that mode than the Barbarian is outside of Rage. It would be a hefty redesign that I'm not gonna try to do here, but I think it could work.
Doesn't look like a popular idea though.
I've seen a proposal on another forum about adjusting the Moon Druid to have more powerful forms for Tier 3 and 4 at the cost of higher level spell slots. Is it possible to redesign that way? It would be a cool reimagining of a Moon Druid to be able to become a literal chimeral monster at the cost of some spellcasting, but the Class->Subclass system of PC advancement in 5e is not well suited to granular adjustments like that. Ideally, a person playing a Druid could spend points to "level up" Wildshape separately from from spellcasting and maybe also separate from their summoning ability as well. You could look at the Shadowrun RPG as an example of how to do this. However, that level of complexity is also part of the reason that not many people play Shadowrun compared to D&D. :(
They already have that it's called Polymorph (Tier 2-3) and Shapechange (tier 4)
I feel like there's room for a version of Druid that isn't even a spellcaster. Just a weird variant of warrior or expert that doesn't use manufactured weapons. Similar to Barbarian, it would have a "combat mode" but it would probably be weaker outside of that mode than the Barbarian is outside of Rage. It would be a hefty redesign that I'm not gonna try to do here, but I think it could work.
Doesn't look like a popular idea though.
That also already exists it is called the "Path of the Beast" Barbarian. Or the Order of Lycanthrope Bloodhunter.
I've seen a proposal on another forum about adjusting the Moon Druid to have more powerful forms for Tier 3 and 4 at the cost of higher level spell slots. Is it possible to redesign that way? It would be a cool reimagining of a Moon Druid to be able to become a literal chimeral monster at the cost of some spellcasting, but the Class->Subclass system of PC advancement in 5e is not well suited to granular adjustments like that. Ideally, a person playing a Druid could spend points to "level up" Wildshape separately from from spellcasting and maybe also separate from their summoning ability as well. You could look at the Shadowrun RPG as an example of how to do this. However, that level of complexity is also part of the reason that not many people play Shadowrun compared to D&D. :(
They already have that it's called Polymorph (Tier 2-3) and Shapechange (tier 4)
Relying on spells requiring concentration is not at all the same thing due to how many ways there are to stop concentration and the limit on concentration spells.
I feel like there's room for a version of Druid that isn't even a spellcaster. Just a weird variant of warrior or expert that doesn't use manufactured weapons. Similar to Barbarian, it would have a "combat mode" but it would probably be weaker outside of that mode than the Barbarian is outside of Rage. It would be a hefty redesign that I'm not gonna try to do here, but I think it could work.
Doesn't look like a popular idea though.
A Shifter-like class is a fine idea - see Pathfinder 1e. I would just question calling it a "druid."
I feel like there's room for a version of Druid that isn't even a spellcaster. Just a weird variant of warrior or expert that doesn't use manufactured weapons. Similar to Barbarian, it would have a "combat mode" but it would probably be weaker outside of that mode than the Barbarian is outside of Rage. It would be a hefty redesign that I'm not gonna try to do here, but I think it could work.
Doesn't look like a popular idea though.
That seems like something that would be easier to do re-skinning ranger or monk, if it was the route I wanted to go as a player. Wouldn't necessarily need a new druid subclass for it
this conversation is making me feel like the whole class isn't far from a reskinned UA warlock: nature patron. pick your pact... fuzzy lumpkins, moon laser, or sage-scented healer edit: claw, rune, or chain heal ... yeah, those are more apropos
I feel like there's room for a version of Druid that isn't even a spellcaster. Just a weird variant of warrior or expert that doesn't use manufactured weapons. Similar to Barbarian, it would have a "combat mode" but it would probably be weaker outside of that mode than the Barbarian is outside of Rage. It would be a hefty redesign that I'm not gonna try to do here, but I think it could work.
Doesn't look like a popular idea though.
That seems like something that would be easier to do re-skinning ranger or monk, if it was the route I wanted to go as a player. Wouldn't necessarily need a new druid subclass for it
this conversation is making me feel like the whole class isn't far from a reskinned UA warlock: nature patron. pick your pact... fuzzy lumpkins, moon laser, or sage-scented healer.
Funnily enough I have a nature-themed homebrew warlock patron in my campaign world -- its essentially the nature spirits people worshipped before the gods came along
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Active characters:
Carric Aquissar, elven wannabe artist in his deconstructionist period (Archfey warlock) Lan Kidogo, mapach archaeologist and treasure hunter (Knowledge cleric) Mardan Ferres, elven private investigator obsessed with that one unsolved murder (Assassin rogue) Xhekhetiel, halfling survivor of a Betrayer Gods cult (Runechild sorcerer/fighter)
To be honest, it’s wildshape that turns me off to the Druid class. In the stories I’ve read, Druids go on spirit walks and dream quests, use herbalism for much more than just healing, commune with spirits of animals and nature, and often call those spirits or the animals that represent them to their aid. Shapeshifting into animals is only part of a Druid’s repertoire in the stories, and in many stories they don’t do it at all. I know the rest of those abilities are supposed to be represented by their spellcasting, but frankly I wish that D&D Druid subclasses would represent these various other powers, and that the Circle of the Moon would take the shapeshifting mantle off of the Druid class.
To be honest, it’s wildshape that turns me off to the Druid class. In the stories I’ve read, Druids go on spirit walks and dream quests, use herbalism for much more than just healing, commune with spirits of animals and nature, and often call those spirits or the animals that represent them to their aid. Shapeshifting into animals is only part of a Druid’s repertoire in the stories, and in many stories they don’t do it at all. I know the rest of those abilities are supposed to be represented by their spellcasting, but frankly I wish that D&D Druid subclasses would represent these various other powers, and that the Circle of the Moon would take the shapeshifting mantle off of the Druid class.
so, you'd like to see a witch? same here. if there was, then shapeshifting druids would fit into just one subclasses leaving a lot of space for herb lore, talking to spirits, granny Weatherwax's good old headology, quidditch, etc...
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
unhappy at the way in which we lost individual purchases for one-off subclasses, magic items, and monsters?
tell them you don't like features disappeared quietly in the night: providefeedback!
A Druid understands and is in harmony with their plane of existence, which is usually the prime material plane or nature. They become a living embodiment and steward of the plane. They employ spellcasting to further their understanding and relationship; similar to a language, their spells ask nature to express phenomenon. Wildshape is one way of many the druid expresses their relationship.
I've always felt that the Druid class was a needless redundancy.
Hear me out.
The class's thematic territory could be easily covered by a Cleric of a Nature Diety/Domain. No need for any sort of shapeshifter class features; just let them have the various polymorph spells and a set of nature-related spells.
Spellcasting is so powerful in 5e and many versions of D&D that the only support it has ever needed was the ability to do it. 5e druids being full casters is all the support they need toward being nature mages.5e base wizard is mostly dead levels. This weird argument that one dnd druids are now more focused on wildshape is a false narrative.
While you're not wrong, spellcasting is indeed a strong feature just on its own, any support for focusing on casting as a Druid doesn't necessarily need to be about making them more powerful, just make them easier to play.
One of the challenges I've noticed in being a "pure" nature mage is that well over half of the Druid spells require concentration, and this becomes even more problematic depending upon the theme you're trying to build around.
For example, let's say you want to go a Coastal Circle of the Land Druid and lean into storm magic; cold, lightning, thunder damage, plus anything water or wind themed. The bulk of the spells that fit these are concentration based, especially at higher levels. In 5e the 4th- and 5th-level spell selection for druids in general has pretty slim pickings for non-concentration, I haven't really looked into higher levels (haven't played a Druid that high), and I don't think the new Primal list really changes this.
Now I'm not sure what the best answer to that might be; fully concentrating on two spells at once would require way too many restrictions to keep it balanced, and probably still be broken. But what if the second spell only lasted one round (until the end of your next turn)? A lot of spells won't be worth casting this way, as they don't do as much damage as instantaneous alternatives.
But there will be some combos that could work like throwing up a temporary warding wind ahead of expected ranged attacks, or to (temporarily) disperse an area of fog or gas, without having to break concentration on call lightning for later turns. A more plant-focused build could throw down a single round entangle while keeping guardian of nature active and so-on.
D&D is for parties, not solo missions. If the druid can get out of the jail cell easily by wild shaping into a mouse, that's cool. They still have to figure out how to free their friends from outside the cell in mouse form, or drop it and risk getting caught by the guards
Plus there are ways around it; if you don't want the druid easily wildshaping out of a cell, put them in magic dampening manacles (wildshape is now a magic action), which is probably the most "common" way to deal with something like that (guards have to be aware that magic exists), or for the overkill route you can have the cell be a solid forcecage or a demiplane, or contain an antimagic field (this is how the prison at Revel's End in Icewind Dale works).
Former D&D Beyond Customer of six years: With the axing of piecemeal purchasing, lack of meaningful development, and toxic moderation the site isn't worth paying for anymore. I remain a free user only until my groups are done migrating from DDB, and if necessary D&D, after which I'm done. There are better systems owned by better companies out there.
I have unsubscribed from all topics and will not reply to messages. My homebrew is now 100% unsupported.
The primal spell list desperately needs revamping, there are a lot of things that don't make sense about it. E.g. why isn't Web on the primal spell list? A druid can turn into a giant spider that shoots webs but has to defer to the wizard if the party needs to magically conjure some webs??? There are others as well: Earthen Grasp, Lightning Bolt, Ray of Frost, Rimes Binding Ice, Stinking Cloud, Cloud Kill, even Cone of Cold was only added in Tasha's.
It goes along with their weird class design. They are clearly modelled after the Wizard with very few class features, but have a spell list that plays like a cleric where you throw up one concentration spell at the start then revert to healing & cantrips, they even have Magic Stone and Shillelagh to mimic the weapon-using of a cleric.
I've always felt that the Druid class was a needless redundancy.
Hear me out.
The class's thematic territory could be easily covered by a Cleric of a Nature Diety/Domain. No need for any sort of shapeshifter class features; just let them have the various polymorph spells and a set of nature-related spells.
Problem solved.
I agree with you, actually.
However, there's this dichotomy between "religion" and "old world religion" that's represented in the divide between Cleric and Druid. It's something that, within the lore of most D&D settings, doesn't hold up to scrutiny, but it's important to the aesthetics of human history I guess.
The first version of Druid to ever enter the game was a Priest variant.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
To post a comment, please login or register a new account.
I think the issue they're trying to address with tiny creatures is their ability to bypass most barriers the players could be put into. A spellcaster could be stripped of their spellcasting focus and tossed in a jail cell and will need to use creativity to escape... meanwhile, a druid who can turn tiny can just turn into a spider and crawl out. Got a locked door in your way? Turn into a cockroach and crawl under. Does the rogue need to sneak into a dangerous location? No reason not to turn into a mouse and hang out in their pocket, just in case they need a spellcaster to get them out of a sticky situation.
Watch Crits for Breakfast, an adults-only RP-Heavy Roll20 Livestream at twitch.tv/afterdisbooty
And now you too can play with the amazing art and assets we use in Roll20 for our campaign at Hazel's Emporium
I mean that's a feature, not a bug (ahem)
D&D is for parties, not solo missions. If the druid can get out of the jail cell easily by wild shaping into a mouse, that's cool. They still have to figure out how to free their friends from outside the cell in mouse form, or drop it and risk getting caught by the guards
Active characters:
Carric Aquissar, elven wannabe artist in his deconstructionist period (Archfey warlock)
Lan Kidogo, mapach archaeologist and treasure hunter (Knowledge cleric)
Mardan Ferres, elven private investigator obsessed with that one unsolved murder (Assassin rogue)
Xhekhetiel, halfling survivor of a Betrayer Gods cult (Runechild sorcerer/fighter)
I definitely agree... I personally, even as a DM, am always happy when my players solve problems. If a particular challenge is easy for one specific player because of their class features, then I think that's a good thing. I often put challenges in games specifically knowing that one person can solve that problem easily, especially since that player can then feel cool as they quickly resolve something that leaves the rest of the players stumped.
Watch Crits for Breakfast, an adults-only RP-Heavy Roll20 Livestream at twitch.tv/afterdisbooty
And now you too can play with the amazing art and assets we use in Roll20 for our campaign at Hazel's Emporium
The way I see it is that Wildshape can be quite strong and it arguably makes sense for one or two subclasses of Druid to focus on it. I don't think it's the best thematic fit for all Druids, though. It's also notably tough to balance. If you allow Druids to Wildshape into Monstrosities in Tier 3 and 4, that would make Wildshape more viable at the cost of possibly both weakening the stereotypical "nature" theme of Druids while also pushing Druid into becoming taking on roles that resemble those of the party Barbarian, Fighter, or Bladelock. This might also contribute to exclamations of "Druids OP! Please nerf!" Which I hear is part of the reason for the down-scaling of Druids from 3.5e to 5e as Dire forms of animals rarely appear in 5e.
I feel like there's room for a version of Druid that isn't even a spellcaster. Just a weird variant of warrior or expert that doesn't use manufactured weapons. Similar to Barbarian, it would have a "combat mode" but it would probably be weaker outside of that mode than the Barbarian is outside of Rage. It would be a hefty redesign that I'm not gonna try to do here, but I think it could work.
Doesn't look like a popular idea though.
That seems like something that would be easier to do re-skinning ranger or monk, if it was the route I wanted to go as a player. Wouldn't necessarily need a new druid subclass for it
Active characters:
Carric Aquissar, elven wannabe artist in his deconstructionist period (Archfey warlock)
Lan Kidogo, mapach archaeologist and treasure hunter (Knowledge cleric)
Mardan Ferres, elven private investigator obsessed with that one unsolved murder (Assassin rogue)
Xhekhetiel, halfling survivor of a Betrayer Gods cult (Runechild sorcerer/fighter)
I've seen a proposal on another forum about adjusting the Moon Druid to have more powerful forms for Tier 3 and 4 at the cost of higher level spell slots. Is it possible to redesign that way? It would be a cool reimagining of a Moon Druid to be able to become a literal chimeral monster at the cost of some spellcasting, but the Class->Subclass system of PC advancement in 5e is not well suited to granular adjustments like that. Ideally, a person playing a Druid could spend points to "level up" Wildshape separately from from spellcasting and maybe also separate from their summoning ability as well. You could look at the Shadowrun RPG as an example of how to do this. However, that level of complexity is also part of the reason that not many people play Shadowrun compared to D&D. :(
They already have that it's called Polymorph (Tier 2-3) and Shapechange (tier 4)
That also already exists it is called the "Path of the Beast" Barbarian. Or the Order of Lycanthrope Bloodhunter.
Relying on spells requiring concentration is not at all the same thing due to how many ways there are to stop concentration and the limit on concentration spells.
A Shifter-like class is a fine idea - see Pathfinder 1e. I would just question calling it a "druid."
this conversation is making me feel like the whole class isn't far from a reskinned UA warlock: nature patron. pick your pact...
fuzzy lumpkins, moon laser, or sage-scented healeredit: claw, rune, or chain heal ... yeah, those are more aproposunhappy at the way in which we lost individual purchases for one-off subclasses, magic items, and monsters?
tell them you don't like features disappeared quietly in the night: provide feedback!
Funnily enough I have a nature-themed homebrew warlock patron in my campaign world -- its essentially the nature spirits people worshipped before the gods came along
Active characters:
Carric Aquissar, elven wannabe artist in his deconstructionist period (Archfey warlock)
Lan Kidogo, mapach archaeologist and treasure hunter (Knowledge cleric)
Mardan Ferres, elven private investigator obsessed with that one unsolved murder (Assassin rogue)
Xhekhetiel, halfling survivor of a Betrayer Gods cult (Runechild sorcerer/fighter)
To be honest, it’s wildshape that turns me off to the Druid class. In the stories I’ve read, Druids go on spirit walks and dream quests, use herbalism for much more than just healing, commune with spirits of animals and nature, and often call those spirits or the animals that represent them to their aid. Shapeshifting into animals is only part of a Druid’s repertoire in the stories, and in many stories they don’t do it at all. I know the rest of those abilities are supposed to be represented by their spellcasting, but frankly I wish that D&D Druid subclasses would represent these various other powers, and that the Circle of the Moon would take the shapeshifting mantle off of the Druid class.
Creating Epic Boons on DDB
DDB Buyers' Guide
Hardcovers, DDB & You
Content Troubleshooting
so, you'd like to see a witch? same here. if there was, then shapeshifting druids would fit into just one subclasses leaving a lot of space for herb lore, talking to spirits, granny Weatherwax's good old headology, quidditch, etc...
unhappy at the way in which we lost individual purchases for one-off subclasses, magic items, and monsters?
tell them you don't like features disappeared quietly in the night: provide feedback!
A Druid understands and is in harmony with their plane of existence, which is usually the prime material plane or nature. They become a living embodiment and steward of the plane. They employ spellcasting to further their understanding and relationship; similar to a language, their spells ask nature to express phenomenon. Wildshape is one way of many the druid expresses their relationship.
I chose "My take isn't represented in this poll."
I've always felt that the Druid class was a needless redundancy.
Hear me out.
The class's thematic territory could be easily covered by a Cleric of a Nature Diety/Domain. No need for any sort of shapeshifter class features; just let them have the various polymorph spells and a set of nature-related spells.
Problem solved.
While you're not wrong, spellcasting is indeed a strong feature just on its own, any support for focusing on casting as a Druid doesn't necessarily need to be about making them more powerful, just make them easier to play.
One of the challenges I've noticed in being a "pure" nature mage is that well over half of the Druid spells require concentration, and this becomes even more problematic depending upon the theme you're trying to build around.
For example, let's say you want to go a Coastal Circle of the Land Druid and lean into storm magic; cold, lightning, thunder damage, plus anything water or wind themed. The bulk of the spells that fit these are concentration based, especially at higher levels. In 5e the 4th- and 5th-level spell selection for druids in general has pretty slim pickings for non-concentration, I haven't really looked into higher levels (haven't played a Druid that high), and I don't think the new Primal list really changes this.
Now I'm not sure what the best answer to that might be; fully concentrating on two spells at once would require way too many restrictions to keep it balanced, and probably still be broken. But what if the second spell only lasted one round (until the end of your next turn)? A lot of spells won't be worth casting this way, as they don't do as much damage as instantaneous alternatives.
But there will be some combos that could work like throwing up a temporary warding wind ahead of expected ranged attacks, or to (temporarily) disperse an area of fog or gas, without having to break concentration on call lightning for later turns. A more plant-focused build could throw down a single round entangle while keeping guardian of nature active and so-on.
Plus there are ways around it; if you don't want the druid easily wildshaping out of a cell, put them in magic dampening manacles (wildshape is now a magic action), which is probably the most "common" way to deal with something like that (guards have to be aware that magic exists), or for the overkill route you can have the cell be a solid forcecage or a demiplane, or contain an antimagic field (this is how the prison at Revel's End in Icewind Dale works).
Former D&D Beyond Customer of six years: With the axing of piecemeal purchasing, lack of meaningful development, and toxic moderation the site isn't worth paying for anymore. I remain a free user only until my groups are done migrating from DDB, and if necessary D&D, after which I'm done. There are better systems owned by better companies out there.
I have unsubscribed from all topics and will not reply to messages. My homebrew is now 100% unsupported.
The primal spell list desperately needs revamping, there are a lot of things that don't make sense about it. E.g. why isn't Web on the primal spell list? A druid can turn into a giant spider that shoots webs but has to defer to the wizard if the party needs to magically conjure some webs??? There are others as well: Earthen Grasp, Lightning Bolt, Ray of Frost, Rimes Binding Ice, Stinking Cloud, Cloud Kill, even Cone of Cold was only added in Tasha's.
It goes along with their weird class design. They are clearly modelled after the Wizard with very few class features, but have a spell list that plays like a cleric where you throw up one concentration spell at the start then revert to healing & cantrips, they even have Magic Stone and Shillelagh to mimic the weapon-using of a cleric.
I agree with you, actually.
However, there's this dichotomy between "religion" and "old world religion" that's represented in the divide between Cleric and Druid. It's something that, within the lore of most D&D settings, doesn't hold up to scrutiny, but it's important to the aesthetics of human history I guess.
The first version of Druid to ever enter the game was a Priest variant.