I have no idea what Dark Sun is or how it works, and am only very loosely familiar with the Mystic/Psion. That said, the idea of using concentration cantrips to simulate modal psionic powers is an awesomely elegant one and honestly makes me wish I could see what he was working on. Sounds like a great adaptation of the idea, and just a cool idea to hang a class on in the first place.
Part of the appeal, to me at least, of Dark Sun is it really reimagined the traditions and assumptions of fantasy RPGs without totally reinventing the wheel - everything from the effect of magic on the world to common characteristics of races. Using magic had consequences in that setting that are somewhat analogous to technological development's effect on the environment IRL. As such, it has some more connection to the themes of science fiction than typical Tolkien-descendant sword & sorcercy stuff.
Part of the appeal, to me at least, of Dark Sun is it really reimagined the traditions and assumptions of fantasy RPGs without totally reinventing the wheel - everything from the effect of magic on the world to common characteristics of races. Using magic had consequences in that setting that are somewhat analogous to technological development's effect on the environment IRL. As such, it has some more connection to the themes of science fiction than typical Tolkien-descendant sword & sorcercy stuff.
The casual cannibalism might not fly as easily these days lol
Well, from a party social dynamic perspective, it's not much different from playing a Lizardfolk character, really.
It's much more prevalent in the setting overall. Also slavery is a centerpiece.
"Athas is a devastated world, the result of magic run amok. Most of Athas is an empty desert, interrupted by a handful of corrupt city states controlled by power-mad sorcerer-kings and their spell-wielding lackeys. The brutal climate and the oppressive rule of the sorcerer-kings have created a corrupt, bloodthirsty, and desperate culture that leaves little room for chivalric virtues common to fantasy settings (hence why paladins are excluded). Slavery is commonplace, gladiatorial duels provide entertainment for the elite, and death permeates the culture"
It's a VASTLY different setting than all others and it's heavy on the dystopia which is popular still somewhat but escapism into heroic fantasy is the direction I have seen from most new adventures and popular media in DnD as of late.
I miss my old Thri-Kreen character. He would sit around the campfire at night staring at the elves and stroking his mandibles.
The Preserver/Defiler dynamic was also great fodder for stories. To this day I still occasionally start my PCs at 3rd level just to keep that “survival of the fittest” feeling depending on the campaign.
If they switch the Mystic over to Spell Slots and get rid of Mystic Points I will be very upset. I for one am less than thrilled with the current Artificer. To be honest, my only real complaint about 5e is that it’s too streamline. A little fat adds a lot of flavor to a game IMHO.
It's much more prevalent in the setting overall. Also slavery is a centerpiece.
"Athas is a devastated world, the result of magic run amok. Most of Athas is an empty desert, interrupted by a handful of corrupt city states controlled by power-mad sorcerer-kings and their spell-wielding lackeys. The brutal climate and the oppressive rule of the sorcerer-kings have created a corrupt, bloodthirsty, and desperate culture that leaves little room for chivalric virtues common to fantasy settings (hence why paladins are excluded). Slavery is commonplace, gladiatorial duels provide entertainment for the elite, and death permeates the culture"
It's a VASTLY different setting than all others and it's heavy on the dystopia which is popular still somewhat but escapism into heroic fantasy is the direction I have seen from most new adventures and popular media in DnD as of late.
IOW, it's a more survival-centric, bloodthirstier version of Eberron. I've been waiting for 5th edition to publish stuff with more mature (as in psychologically) subject matter. Game of Thrones, Dune, Mad Max, Parable of the Sower. These are all dystopias in one way or another. If these kinds of things are popular, I don't see how there would be a problem with WotC publishing updated material for Dark Sun.
It's much more prevalent in the setting overall. Also slavery is a centerpiece.
"Athas is a devastated world, the result of magic run amok. Most of Athas is an empty desert, interrupted by a handful of corrupt city states controlled by power-mad sorcerer-kings and their spell-wielding lackeys. The brutal climate and the oppressive rule of the sorcerer-kings have created a corrupt, bloodthirsty, and desperate culture that leaves little room for chivalric virtues common to fantasy settings (hence why paladins are excluded). Slavery is commonplace, gladiatorial duels provide entertainment for the elite, and death permeates the culture"
It's a VASTLY different setting than all others and it's heavy on the dystopia which is popular still somewhat but escapism into heroic fantasy is the direction I have seen from most new adventures and popular media in DnD as of late.
IOW, it's a more survival-centric, bloodthirstier version of Eberron. I've been waiting for 5th edition to publish stuff with more mature (as in psychologically) subject matter. Game of Thrones, Dune, Mad Max, Parable of the Sower. These are all dystopias in one way or another. If these kinds of things are popular, I don't see how there would be a problem with WotC publishing updated material for Dark Sun.
Mad Max is about the only one of those that is truly as dystopian as Dark Sun IMO the others are more dark political operas with morally grey characters. I do think that "adult" settings are something that is missing from the current 5e roster and I agree I would love to see Dark Sun myself but Hasbro and WotC seems to want family friendly settings which Dark Sun is hard to justify as anything but "TV-MA".
Its not that adult things aren't popular its just I do not foresee the current culture of the companies accepting a "TV-MA" setting. I hope I am wrong though!
Warlocks aren’t “book smart”, they beat the system by being “charismatic” and making a deal with a higher power. They got a shortcut to power instead of reading their whole lives.
I have a hunch they'll eventually have a Dark Sun thing for 5E. They allude to the setting quite a bit in the DMG. I think if they're going to do it, it'll be after they make supplements for stuff lie Spelljammer and Planescape.
Could you clarify what you meant about strength-based intimidation checks? This a rule intended so dms (like myself, for I love that feature) can customise ability checks to suit the situation so that makes it entirely possible to use logic to persuade someone as long your dm allows it. Swimming with con or using brute strength to intimidate an/a group of individual(s) are merely examples as to communicate ways the mechanic can be used. I also apologise for not covering revised mystic in my post.
Ability checks in general are handled wrongly/backwards by a majority of D&D players/DMs. A new DM's first thought, when a player declares an action, is to find a skill the action fits - Animal Handling, Perception, Acrobatics, whatever - and call that. They get confused and unsure when there's no skill that really fits.
The proper methodology should be deciding an ability that the action falls under, and then allowing a bonus based on skill training/proficiency if it applies. A Charisma (Persuasion) check is what every DM calls for whenever someone is trying to convince someone of something, often just "okay, roll Persuasion". Thing is? The DMG states, even if it does so in the most useless, bass-ackwards way possible, that skills can be rolled on different abilities if it makes sense. Someone who's playing party lawyer, for instance - trying to get the party off on a legal technicality, or who's using a barrage of facts and logic to try and big-brain their way out of a jam? They should be rolling Intelligence, not Charisma, and their Persuasion training allows them to argue the facts decisively and well.
Now. How many times have you ever seen an Intelligence (Persuasion) check in your game?
Yeah. Me, either.
Tying skills so strongly to abilities creates a weird situation where the ability scores themselves are generally disregarded, with the pre-bundled Ability+Skill modifier often considered the only number that matters. Now, at my table, a good third at least of all ability checks are just that - raw Ability checks, using the base ability bonus. Intelligence gets called for a lot, and my players know better than to dump Intelligence and then expect to be brainy anyways. But I had to be educated out of this bad habit myself, and the person what did the educating can only do so much, especially when all the streams and such do it the usual, less helpful way.
Also, being good at CHA is way more important than INT scores. A party can get by with 1 character with high INT, because they can share information and such. CHA is personal. A party with one character with good INT is a party that will learn a lot of information. A party with only one character with good CHA will fail at almost every social situation, unless the gods bless those dice rolls to such an extent. INT is severely underrepresented in mechanics, and most of the abilities that relate to it are just extension of wizard abilities, like scribing scrolls, or subclasses that are just "this class + some wizard spells". Charisma is over represented in classes, and honestly? I would rather warlocks have gotten the option to use either int or cha, based on subclasses. Also, INT has no passive ability.
Strength: Carrying capacity, jump distance, climbing, athletics checks, heavy armor, most melee weapons.
Dexterity: AC, one of the big three saving throws, light and medium armor, finesse and ranged weapons, stealth checks.
Constitution: HP, one of the big three saving throws.
Charisma: Most common spellcasting stat, useful in all social situations.
Wisdom: Spellcasting stat for 2 great classes and 1 poor one, one of the big three saving throws, perception checks, the most important ability check in the game, revolves around this.
Intelligence: Useful as a spellcasting stat for 1 class (now 2, if your dm allows artificer), and 2 subclasses, and i guess rogues? Tied to fairly common ability checks, but ones that everyone and their grandmother can be proficient in, and can easily be replaced by character exposition, and only one person needs to succeed on.
I have the following solution i would like to propose:
Instead of everyone being able to attune to 3 magic items, the amount of magic items you are able to attune to is equal to your INT score/7 (rounded up). The artificers abilities now just increase as an extra one, giving you a max of 6, but you won't be able to attune to 3 magic items unless you have an INT of 15 or higher. Not gamebreaking but it is something.
Jeremy Crawford has said that the door has not been closed on the Mystic/Psion eventually becoming official, but that it would require an appropriate setting in order to be released, a la Artificer w/ Eberron. So, probably something like Dark Sun or something similar would have to be in the works first. Right now I'd say something else is in the works currently, considering all the crazy subclasses we've been seeing in UA lately, but I suspect this latest batch might be paving the way for something bigger regarding psionics in the future.
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I think it would be interesting to have certain Mystic disciplines integrated as subclasses for other classes (not necessarily as a perfect copy; but certain mechanical styles).
For example, someone had mentioned the Avatar Mystic features for a Bard.
This is, mechanically, an interesting concept and a natural fit for the bard, as their specialty is beguiling and charming those around them with their natural, charismatic presence.
The Avatar disciplines with the Mystic involved "mantles" that affected the emotional states of both allies and enemies. We've seen a similar concept with the Glamour Bard...with an emphasis on charming and commanding enemies.
Applying the same concept to say, a "College of Emotions" or "College of Enchantment" enables the bard to manipulate the emotional state of their desired target...their music or performance while they are spellcasting can change tones to reflect a shift in attitude similar to what an Avatar Mystic does.
The bard plays a rousing battle hymn...suddenly their ally is immune to fear, and gains advantage on Wisdom saves. Or perhaps the bard plays a somber tune on a vioin... suddenly their target becomes distraught in a fit of melancholy, unable to move. Or the aggressive lute-playing bard plays a blistering riff, and suddenly an enemy attacks their friend, or an ally uses their reaction to charge towards their foe.
These are some alternative uses for Bardic Inspiration that gives a bard some tactics to work with.
For another class, like the Druid, some of the disciplines of the Immortal Mystic makes sense.
The theme of druids, especially with Wild Shape, involves changing their own physical form. Giving the druid the ability to alter their physical form with enhancements that let them grow in size, gain metallic skin, spit acid, or any other Immortal discipline seems like a natural fit. Could be called the "Circle of Change" or "Circle of Metamorphosis".
One could even argue the Mystic's ability to change their saving throw proficiency once per long rest is incredibly valuable for a Druid...flavored as a shapeshifting druid altering their muscles for Strength save proficiency, coordination for Dexterity, physical appearance for Charisma, or resilience for Constitution.
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I have no idea what Dark Sun is or how it works, and am only very loosely familiar with the Mystic/Psion. That said, the idea of using concentration cantrips to simulate modal psionic powers is an awesomely elegant one and honestly makes me wish I could see what he was working on. Sounds like a great adaptation of the idea, and just a cool idea to hang a class on in the first place.
Why you shouldn't start ANOTHER thread about DDB not giving away free redeems on your hardcopy book purchases.
Thinking of starting ANOTHER thread asking why Epic Boons haven't been implemented? Read this first to learn why you shouldn't!
Here you go: https://gimmethedice.wordpress.com/2018/11/24/game-review-38-dark-sun-add-2nd-edition-s/
Part of the appeal, to me at least, of Dark Sun is it really reimagined the traditions and assumptions of fantasy RPGs without totally reinventing the wheel - everything from the effect of magic on the world to common characteristics of races. Using magic had consequences in that setting that are somewhat analogous to technological development's effect on the environment IRL. As such, it has some more connection to the themes of science fiction than typical Tolkien-descendant sword & sorcercy stuff.
The casual cannibalism might not fly as easily these days lol
Well, from a party social dynamic perspective, it's not much different from playing a Lizardfolk character, really.
It's much more prevalent in the setting overall. Also slavery is a centerpiece.
"Athas is a devastated world, the result of magic run amok. Most of Athas is an empty desert, interrupted by a handful of corrupt city states controlled by power-mad sorcerer-kings and their spell-wielding lackeys. The brutal climate and the oppressive rule of the sorcerer-kings have created a corrupt, bloodthirsty, and desperate culture that leaves little room for chivalric virtues common to fantasy settings (hence why paladins are excluded). Slavery is commonplace, gladiatorial duels provide entertainment for the elite, and death permeates the culture"
It's a VASTLY different setting than all others and it's heavy on the dystopia which is popular still somewhat but escapism into heroic fantasy is the direction I have seen from most new adventures and popular media in DnD as of late.
I miss my old Thri-Kreen character. He would sit around the campfire at night staring at the elves and stroking his mandibles.
The Preserver/Defiler dynamic was also great fodder for stories. To this day I still occasionally start my PCs at 3rd level just to keep that “survival of the fittest” feeling depending on the campaign.
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If they switch the Mystic over to Spell Slots and get rid of Mystic Points I will be very upset. I for one am less than thrilled with the current Artificer. To be honest, my only real complaint about 5e is that it’s too streamline. A little fat adds a lot of flavor to a game IMHO.
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Hardcovers, DDB, & You
DDB CONTENT TROUBLESHOOTING
IOW, it's a more survival-centric, bloodthirstier version of Eberron. I've been waiting for 5th edition to publish stuff with more mature (as in psychologically) subject matter. Game of Thrones, Dune, Mad Max, Parable of the Sower. These are all dystopias in one way or another. If these kinds of things are popular, I don't see how there would be a problem with WotC publishing updated material for Dark Sun.
Mad Max is about the only one of those that is truly as dystopian as Dark Sun IMO the others are more dark political operas with morally grey characters. I do think that "adult" settings are something that is missing from the current 5e roster and I agree I would love to see Dark Sun myself but Hasbro and WotC seems to want family friendly settings which Dark Sun is hard to justify as anything but "TV-MA".
Its not that adult things aren't popular its just I do not foresee the current culture of the companies accepting a "TV-MA" setting. I hope I am wrong though!
Warlocks aren’t “book smart”, they beat the system by being “charismatic” and making a deal with a higher power. They got a shortcut to power instead of reading their whole lives.
I have a hunch they'll eventually have a Dark Sun thing for 5E. They allude to the setting quite a bit in the DMG. I think if they're going to do it, it'll be after they make supplements for stuff lie Spelljammer and Planescape.
Hombrew: Way of Wresting, Circle of Sacrifice
Could you clarify what you meant about strength-based intimidation checks? This a rule intended so dms (like myself, for I love that feature) can customise ability checks to suit the situation so that makes it entirely possible to use logic to persuade someone as long your dm allows it. Swimming with con or using brute strength to intimidate an/a group of individual(s) are merely examples as to communicate ways the mechanic can be used. I also apologise for not covering revised mystic in my post.
Ability checks in general are handled wrongly/backwards by a majority of D&D players/DMs. A new DM's first thought, when a player declares an action, is to find a skill the action fits - Animal Handling, Perception, Acrobatics, whatever - and call that. They get confused and unsure when there's no skill that really fits.
The proper methodology should be deciding an ability that the action falls under, and then allowing a bonus based on skill training/proficiency if it applies. A Charisma (Persuasion) check is what every DM calls for whenever someone is trying to convince someone of something, often just "okay, roll Persuasion". Thing is? The DMG states, even if it does so in the most useless, bass-ackwards way possible, that skills can be rolled on different abilities if it makes sense. Someone who's playing party lawyer, for instance - trying to get the party off on a legal technicality, or who's using a barrage of facts and logic to try and big-brain their way out of a jam? They should be rolling Intelligence, not Charisma, and their Persuasion training allows them to argue the facts decisively and well.
Now. How many times have you ever seen an Intelligence (Persuasion) check in your game?
Yeah. Me, either.
Tying skills so strongly to abilities creates a weird situation where the ability scores themselves are generally disregarded, with the pre-bundled Ability+Skill modifier often considered the only number that matters. Now, at my table, a good third at least of all ability checks are just that - raw Ability checks, using the base ability bonus. Intelligence gets called for a lot, and my players know better than to dump Intelligence and then expect to be brainy anyways. But I had to be educated out of this bad habit myself, and the person what did the educating can only do so much, especially when all the streams and such do it the usual, less helpful way.
Why you shouldn't start ANOTHER thread about DDB not giving away free redeems on your hardcopy book purchases.
Thinking of starting ANOTHER thread asking why Epic Boons haven't been implemented? Read this first to learn why you shouldn't!
Also, being good at CHA is way more important than INT scores. A party can get by with 1 character with high INT, because they can share information and such. CHA is personal. A party with one character with good INT is a party that will learn a lot of information. A party with only one character with good CHA will fail at almost every social situation, unless the gods bless those dice rolls to such an extent. INT is severely underrepresented in mechanics, and most of the abilities that relate to it are just extension of wizard abilities, like scribing scrolls, or subclasses that are just "this class + some wizard spells". Charisma is over represented in classes, and honestly? I would rather warlocks have gotten the option to use either int or cha, based on subclasses. Also, INT has no passive ability.
Strength: Carrying capacity, jump distance, climbing, athletics checks, heavy armor, most melee weapons.
Dexterity: AC, one of the big three saving throws, light and medium armor, finesse and ranged weapons, stealth checks.
Constitution: HP, one of the big three saving throws.
Charisma: Most common spellcasting stat, useful in all social situations.
Wisdom: Spellcasting stat for 2 great classes and 1 poor one, one of the big three saving throws, perception checks, the most important ability check in the game, revolves around this.
Intelligence: Useful as a spellcasting stat for 1 class (now 2, if your dm allows artificer), and 2 subclasses, and i guess rogues? Tied to fairly common ability checks, but ones that everyone and their grandmother can be proficient in, and can easily be replaced by character exposition, and only one person needs to succeed on.
I have the following solution i would like to propose:
Instead of everyone being able to attune to 3 magic items, the amount of magic items you are able to attune to is equal to your INT score/7 (rounded up). The artificers abilities now just increase as an extra one, giving you a max of 6, but you won't be able to attune to 3 magic items unless you have an INT of 15 or higher. Not gamebreaking but it is something.
So, about that Mystic!
Jeremy Crawford has said that the door has not been closed on the Mystic/Psion eventually becoming official, but that it would require an appropriate setting in order to be released, a la Artificer w/ Eberron. So, probably something like Dark Sun or something similar would have to be in the works first. Right now I'd say something else is in the works currently, considering all the crazy subclasses we've been seeing in UA lately, but I suspect this latest batch might be paving the way for something bigger regarding psionics in the future.
Mezzurah,
I hope you’re correct.
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Me too, I want it as the next UA.
Please check out my homebrew, I would appreciate feedback:
Spells, Monsters, Subclasses, Races, Arcknight Class, Occultist Class, World, Enigmatic Esoterica forms
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Would be nice.
DDB Buyers' Guide
Hardcovers, DDB, & You
DDB CONTENT TROUBLESHOOTING
I think it would be interesting to have certain Mystic disciplines integrated as subclasses for other classes (not necessarily as a perfect copy; but certain mechanical styles).
For example, someone had mentioned the Avatar Mystic features for a Bard.
This is, mechanically, an interesting concept and a natural fit for the bard, as their specialty is beguiling and charming those around them with their natural, charismatic presence.
The Avatar disciplines with the Mystic involved "mantles" that affected the emotional states of both allies and enemies. We've seen a similar concept with the Glamour Bard...with an emphasis on charming and commanding enemies.
Applying the same concept to say, a "College of Emotions" or "College of Enchantment" enables the bard to manipulate the emotional state of their desired target...their music or performance while they are spellcasting can change tones to reflect a shift in attitude similar to what an Avatar Mystic does.
The bard plays a rousing battle hymn...suddenly their ally is immune to fear, and gains advantage on Wisdom saves. Or perhaps the bard plays a somber tune on a vioin... suddenly their target becomes distraught in a fit of melancholy, unable to move. Or the aggressive lute-playing bard plays a blistering riff, and suddenly an enemy attacks their friend, or an ally uses their reaction to charge towards their foe.
These are some alternative uses for Bardic Inspiration that gives a bard some tactics to work with.
For another class, like the Druid, some of the disciplines of the Immortal Mystic makes sense.
The theme of druids, especially with Wild Shape, involves changing their own physical form. Giving the druid the ability to alter their physical form with enhancements that let them grow in size, gain metallic skin, spit acid, or any other Immortal discipline seems like a natural fit. Could be called the "Circle of Change" or "Circle of Metamorphosis".
One could even argue the Mystic's ability to change their saving throw proficiency once per long rest is incredibly valuable for a Druid...flavored as a shapeshifting druid altering their muscles for Strength save proficiency, coordination for Dexterity, physical appearance for Charisma, or resilience for Constitution.