That is exactly what I am talking about! The Disciplines that do those! Yes! We agree on something! WooooOOO! (also jeremy crawford has said that they are still open to a psion class, they are just currently working on how that would function)
That is exactly what I am talking about! The Disciplines that do those! Yes! We agree on something! WooooOOO! (also jeremy crawford has said that they are still open to a psion class, they are just currently working on how that would function)
Exactly, it should function similar to spells, not the same, it should be simple. Mind powers are easy to do, so it should be easy to play. Spells are complex to complete, so their rules should be more complex. You should be able to choose most of your abilities so you don't just have to be a telekinetic, you can also have telepathy and far sight. I so hope a Psion class comes out soon without using spells and spell slots. I really want something different to make psionics better.
I think they might spread discipines between other classes, save a couple for the actual psion. And Psion will be INT based. mark my words. The Psionic subclasses are all INT based.
I know the 5e Psion (if there actually is one, which I hope for, but still doubt) will be Int based and I personally Agree to that change. I also agree to Psionics being Magic for game balance purposes. Something like:
“Psionicists have no need for such clumsy trappings as Spells. For to be a Psionicist is to manipulate The Weave directly with the power of the mind. Since a Psion needs no spells to force The Weave into submission, Psionicists do not damage The Weave through the use of their powers. Since there are no spells, there is nothing for the gods to limit....”
Not so hard to accept that explanation, is it?
Then basically the “Powers” would act more like a set of Features you spend some arbitrary resource to use than the would “Spells.” That would make everything SOOOO much simpler for everyone. Basically they would functionally work in a way that felt “spell like” but balance like Class Features with # of uses/LR. Much like the Psionic Subclasses we’re getting.... 🤔🤫 Only difference is they would have a Wizards Hit Dice and Proficiencies, Int and Con Saves, and the ability to choose 1/2 their own Class Features and all of their own Subclass Features, and “spend Psi Points to activate the powers” instead of “spend slots to cast spells.” As long as the few powers were really versatile like “Psychokinesis Discipline gives you access to the powers: Telekinesis, Psychlevitation, Force Manipulation, and Object Reading (just to give it a little diversity) among 1 or 2 other choices. If Telekinesis was like Mage Hand, Catapult, Levitate, Telekinesis, and Bigby’s Hand all combined and scaled from level 1-9 into “Psionic Mastery Ranks 1-5” just to make it different (and easier to track/balance). People are stuck on the whole “Psionic Powers are just like Spells, why change it?” kick. It shouldn’t have to be that complicated.
You literally just made psionic like spells but renamed it.
You literally just made psionic like spells but renamed it.
Not quite like spells no. More like a Class Feature that has the functionality of several spells all rolled into one, and you spend points to activate it for a duration of time.
You literally just made psionic like spells but renamed it.
Not quite like spells no. More like a Class Feature that has the functionality of several spells all rolled into one, and you spend points to activate it for a duration of time.
Kind of like the different between a Cleric’s Spells and their Chanel Divinity Features. So for Psions they could choose their collection of up to say, 8 by level 17 Features that work like Chanel Divinity, except instead of “X times per Long Rest” they would have spent a resource similar to Ki. Smaller numbers, still feels like spells but doesn’t work just like spells. Easy to balance.
I think that’s what they were trying to do with the Mystic, but the disciplines were way too bloated, there were way too many of them, they each had way too many powers, the costs were too high and therefore the Psi Points were too numerous and the whole darned think felt clumsy.
When they designed the Mystic they were so focused on “making the powers work like spells but not” that they used the Spell Point conversion from Spell Slots to map out the progression chart and then I think they were kind of boxed in from there.
IMO, they shouldn’t have bothered trying to “make them work like spells but not” that’s way to hard to balance and way to big a pain in the ass for players. Instead I think they should have focused more on “make them work, and make them feel like spells but not.” I think if they had simply approached it from a different angle it would have gone much better.
Kind of like the different between a Cleric’s Spells and their Chanel Divinity Features. So for Psions they could choose their collection of up to say, 8 by level 17 Features that work like Chanel Divinity, except instead of “X times per Long Rest” they would have spent a resource similar to Ki. Smaller numbers, still feels like spells but doesn’t work just like spells. Easy to balance.
I think that’s what they were trying to do with the Mystic, but the disciplines were way too bloated, there were way too many of them, they each had way too many powers, the costs were too high and therefore the Psi Points were too numerous and the whole darned think felt clumsy.
When they designed the Mystic they were so focused on “making the powers work like spells but not” that they used the Spell Point conversion from Spell Slots to map out the progression chart and then I think they were kind of boxed in from there.
IMO, they shouldn’t have bothered trying to “make them work like spells but not” that’s way to hard to balance and way to big a pain in the ass for players. Instead I think they should have focused more on “make them work, and make them feel like spells but not.” I think if they had simply approached it from a different angle it would have gone much better.
So basically, if way of the four elements was its own class (and good). With different subclasses having extra things to do with its (not) Ki.
I think mystic could work this way. If they toned downs and reduced disciplines to a much more manageable number and complexity. A simple spend # points, get X effect. No psychic focus and 5 abilities per discipline. And some effects can be spells. It could work.
So basically, if way of the four elements was its own class (and good). With different subclasses having extra things to do with its (not) Ki.
I think mystic could work this way. If they toned downs and reduced disciplines to a much more manageable number and complexity. A simple spend # points, get X effect. No psychic focus and 5 abilities per discipline. And some effects can be spells. It could work.
Kind of, but with more points to use these abilities, and they are their primary class abilities, and they are psionically themed, and also, good. It needs to be simpler, and it needs to be better.
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Please check out my homebrew, I would appreciate feedback:
Kind of like the different between a Cleric’s Spells and their Chanel Divinity Features. So for Psions they could choose their collection of up to say, 8 by level 17 Features that work like Chanel Divinity, except instead of “X times per Long Rest” they would have spent a resource similar to Ki. Smaller numbers, still feels like spells but doesn’t work just like spells. Easy to balance.
I think that’s what they were trying to do with the Mystic, but the disciplines were way too bloated, there were way too many of them, they each had way too many powers, the costs were too high and therefore the Psi Points were too numerous and the whole darned think felt clumsy.
When they designed the Mystic they were so focused on “making the powers work like spells but not” that they used the Spell Point conversion from Spell Slots to map out the progression chart and then I think they were kind of boxed in from there.
IMO, they shouldn’t have bothered trying to “make them work like spells but not” that’s way to hard to balance and way to big a pain in the ass for players. Instead I think they should have focused more on “make them work, and make them feel like spells but not.” I think if they had simply approached it from a different angle it would have gone much better.
So basically, if way of the four elements was its own class (and good). With different subclasses having extra things to do with its (not) Ki.
I think mystic could work this way. If they toned downs and reduced disciplines to a much more manageable number and complexity. A simple spend # points, get X effect. No psychic focus and 5 abilities per discipline. And some effects can be spells. It could work.
YES!!! Now we’re getting somewhere!! Add in a couple Cantrip equivalents as Psionic Talents, and some Eldridge Invocation equivalents for Psionic Devotions and we’re all set.
I am actually making my own psion homebrew right now, it is basically a warlock without invocations, but with a form of metamagic that empowers their magic. (Psionics is not magic, i am talking mechanically).
I am actually making my own psion homebrew right now, it is basically a warlock without invocations, but with a form of metamagic that empowers their magic. (Psionics is not magic, i am talking mechanically).
So am I, it basically a mashup of Monk (Martial Arts dice are Psi Arts dice, and Ki point for Psi Points) + Sorcerer (Metamagic as Metapsionics) + Warlock (Cantrips are Talents, Warlock Spell Slots are Focus Points, Warlock Spells Known divided by 3 rounded up are Psionic Sciences known, and Invocations are Psionic Devotions)
In my case Psionics are Magic, but there are no “Spells”
So am I, it basically a mashup of Monk (Martial Arts dice are Psi Arts dice, and Ki point for Psi Points) + Sorcerer (Metamagic as Metapsionics) + Warlock (Cantrips are Talents, Warlock Spell Slots are Focus Points, Warlock Spells Known divided by 3 rounded up are Psionic Sciences known, and Invocations are Psionic Devotions)
In my case Psionics are Magic, but there are no “Spells”
You are starting to overcomplicate it. Combining mechanics from 3 different classes into a class with 7 unique mechanics/terms. Classes should only have 3-4 unique mechanics tops (most have less).
Not to mention mechanics he mentions are already implemented as spells. He even mentions cantrips and the spells cast by monks. "we're getting somewhere" if that somewhere is psionics be a never-ending novel.
All those things combine to make 4 mechanics: Talents (Cantrips), Sciences (those Chanel Divinity style feature I mentioned), Devotions (Eldritch Invocations), and Metapsionics (Metamagic).
The Focus points are just a way to regulate how many total times per day the Character can activate their Sciences, the Psi Points are just to fuel the Metapsionics, and the Psi Dice are just a convenient way to scale the damage from the Sciences along with the character level. (That way, no matter the order in which they choose their Sciences, they are always level appropriate.)
Send him a link to yhisnthread
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Then tell Mr Crawford to check out this thread.
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Then you're talking about another game, because spells in 5e are definitely not complex.
You literally just made psionic like spells but renamed it.
Dude what you are talking about is literally the psionics system of the mystic, that, in a rough idea, was how it functioned.
Yeah, in a rough idea that’s how it was supposed to function. Problems were:
The idea was sound, the implementation was clunky.
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Who said they were?
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Not quite like spells no. More like a Class Feature that has the functionality of several spells all rolled into one, and you spend points to activate it for a duration of time.
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I don't see the difference.
Kind of like the different between a Cleric’s Spells and their Chanel Divinity Features. So for Psions they could choose their collection of up to say, 8 by level 17 Features that work like Chanel Divinity, except instead of “X times per Long Rest” they would have spent a resource similar to Ki. Smaller numbers, still feels like spells but doesn’t work just like spells. Easy to balance.
I think that’s what they were trying to do with the Mystic, but the disciplines were way too bloated, there were way too many of them, they each had way too many powers, the costs were too high and therefore the Psi Points were too numerous and the whole darned think felt clumsy.
When they designed the Mystic they were so focused on “making the powers work like spells but not” that they used the Spell Point conversion from Spell Slots to map out the progression chart and then I think they were kind of boxed in from there.
IMO, they shouldn’t have bothered trying to “make them work like spells but not” that’s way to hard to balance and way to big a pain in the ass for players. Instead I think they should have focused more on “make them work, and make them feel like spells but not.” I think if they had simply approached it from a different angle it would have gone much better.
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So basically, if way of the four elements was its own class (and good). With different subclasses having extra things to do with its (not) Ki.
I think mystic could work this way. If they toned downs and reduced disciplines to a much more manageable number and complexity. A simple spend # points, get X effect. No psychic focus and 5 abilities per discipline. And some effects can be spells. It could work.
Kind of, but with more points to use these abilities, and they are their primary class abilities, and they are psionically themed, and also, good. It needs to be simpler, and it needs to be better.
Please check out my homebrew, I would appreciate feedback:
Spells, Monsters, Subclasses, Races, Arcknight Class, Occultist Class, World, Enigmatic Esoterica forms
YES!!! Now we’re getting somewhere!! Add in a couple Cantrip equivalents as Psionic Talents, and some Eldridge Invocation equivalents for Psionic Devotions and we’re all set.
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I am actually making my own psion homebrew right now, it is basically a warlock without invocations, but with a form of metamagic that empowers their magic. (Psionics is not magic, i am talking mechanically).
So am I, it basically a mashup of Monk (Martial Arts dice are Psi Arts dice, and Ki point for Psi Points) + Sorcerer (Metamagic as Metapsionics) + Warlock (Cantrips are Talents, Warlock Spell Slots are Focus Points, Warlock Spells Known divided by 3 rounded up are Psionic Sciences known, and Invocations are Psionic Devotions)
In my case Psionics are Magic, but there are no “Spells”
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I am using disciplines that grant spells, for simplicity, but there are some disciplines that do not grant spells.
I’m using cantrips as the Talents for simplicity as well. But I am re-writing the Sciences.
I am using the 6 Disciplines as the Subclasses, I am using the term “Sciences” for the powers the way they did back in 2e.
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You are starting to overcomplicate it. Combining mechanics from 3 different classes into a class with 7 unique mechanics/terms. Classes should only have 3-4 unique mechanics tops (most have less).
Not to mention mechanics he mentions are already implemented as spells. He even mentions cantrips and the spells cast by monks. "we're getting somewhere" if that somewhere is psionics be a never-ending novel.
TBH, I think that if WotC introduces psions to 5e it would be like this: https://www.gmbinder.com/share/-Lv3GJlGamDZrKdiUxyq
It is much closer to the rest of their 5e design.
All those things combine to make 4 mechanics: Talents (Cantrips), Sciences (those Chanel Divinity style feature I mentioned), Devotions (Eldritch Invocations), and Metapsionics (Metamagic).
The Focus points are just a way to regulate how many total times per day the Character can activate their Sciences, the Psi Points are just to fuel the Metapsionics, and the Psi Dice are just a convenient way to scale the damage from the Sciences along with the character level. (That way, no matter the order in which they choose their Sciences, they are always level appropriate.)
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