I would like to add my vote for Gnolls and Half-Ogres as playable races. Also it would be cool if there some way to have a published Half Dwarf, Half Giant and maybe some kind of Insect race.
Half-Dwarf, half-gnome, half-goblin, half-hobgoblin, Thri-Kreen.... I want them all.
Yep, along with all new Aasimar. There are a ton of new races and subraces they could add.
Along the lines of aasimar, some extra plane touched races could be exciting. A lot of planes don't get recognized I feel. Then again it would probably be a race from scratch.
There should be templates that can be applied to any race for planetouched of every plane. Like, a Dwarf that is planetouched by the Beastlands, with a bonus to Wisdom, and some druid spells. Or, a Limbo-planetouched Tortle with an Intelligence bonus, and Chaos Bolt, Mold Earth, and Phantasmal Force. (maybe some added spell lists as well.)
Sounds like a Dragonmark kind of thing, but any race can get it.
Yeah, kind of like that. They already created a way to do it, so why not make it available to all races?
that sounds like an really neat idea, especially free expanded spell lists, becuase hell yeah.
So anyways i made an half ogre race once and like, there is not a lot of material to go after when making an half ogre race, unless you just wanna go for them as the only race that is large sized, and then maybe add powerful build on top of large size and increase your strength score maximum to 21 or to go the route of an race with few if any racial traits but really good abillity score improvements
Oh, nice you if you increase the maximum Str to 21 you really open up new territory. I mean, that +5 bonus for 21 instead of +5 bonus for 20 makes it feel really unique. (Just kidding)
But in all seriousness, I think they (or we) could come up with some kind of racial abilities. Ogres have Dark Vision so that is an easy addition. Ogres have serious anger issues so maybe half-ogres can rage once per day as per the barbarain and if they are a barbarian it just adds an extra rage. Or take a few orc traits for an Ogrillon?
Also, Ogres only have a 19 Str, so instead of focusing purely that, look at their toughness instead. They can eat just about anything so maybe give Half-Ogre characters resistance to poison or bonus to AC for their thick hide.
I would like to add my vote for Gnolls and Half-Ogres as playable races. Also it would be cool if there some way to have a published Half Dwarf, Half Giant and maybe some kind of Insect race.
Half-Dwarf, half-gnome, half-goblin, half-hobgoblin, Thri-Kreen.... I want them all.
Yep, along with all new Aasimar. There are a ton of new races and subraces they could add.
Along the lines of aasimar, some extra plane touched races could be exciting. A lot of planes don't get recognized I feel. Then again it would probably be a race from scratch.
There should be templates that can be applied to any race for planetouched of every plane. Like, a Dwarf that is planetouched by the Beastlands, with a bonus to Wisdom, and some druid spells. Or, a Limbo-planetouched Tortle with an Intelligence bonus, and Chaos Bolt, Mold Earth, and Phantasmal Force. (maybe some added spell lists as well.)
Sounds like a Dragonmark kind of thing, but any race can get it.
Yeah, kind of like that. They already created a way to do it, so why not make it available to all races?
that sounds like an really neat idea, especially free expanded spell lists, becuase hell yeah.
So anyways i made an half ogre race once and like, there is not a lot of material to go after when making an half ogre race, unless you just wanna go for them as the only race that is large sized, and then maybe add powerful build on top of large size and increase your strength score maximum to 21 or to go the route of an race with few if any racial traits but really good abillity score improvements
Oh, nice you if you increase the maximum Str to 21 you really open up new territory. I mean, that +5 bonus for 21 instead of +5 bonus for 20 makes it feel really unique. (Just kidding)
But in all seriousness, I think they (or we) could come up with some kind of racial abilities. Ogres have Dark Vision so that is an easy addition. Ogres have serious anger issues so maybe half-ogres can rage once per day as per the barbarain and if they are a barbarian it just adds an extra rage. Or take a few orc traits for an Ogrillon?
Also, Ogres only have a 19 Str, so instead of focusing purely that, look at their toughness instead. They can eat just about anything so maybe give Half-Ogre characters resistance to poison or bonus to AC for their thick hide.
yeah obiously you start with darkvision and ether large size or powerful build, from there you add some chonkiness to em, possibly by stealing relentless and dwarven resillience from hill dwarf and half orc and you have yourself an pretty decent race, but yeah they should defenetly try to come up with unique racial traits
But hey if you cannot find enough good racial traits to make them worthwhile you can go the changeling/ non variant human route and have relatively weak racial traits (darkvision, powerful build and that is about it) but especially strong abillity score increases, maybe +3 to constiution and +2 str or just +3 con +1 str, of course with an hearty -2 to smartitude
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i am soup, with too many ideas (all of them very spicy) who has made sufficient homebrew material and character to last an thousand human lifetimes
I would like to add my vote for Gnolls and Half-Ogres as playable races. Also it would be cool if there some way to have a published Half Dwarf, Half Giant and maybe some kind of Insect race.
Half-Dwarf, half-gnome, half-goblin, half-hobgoblin, Thri-Kreen.... I want them all.
Yep, along with all new Aasimar. There are a ton of new races and subraces they could add.
Along the lines of aasimar, some extra plane touched races could be exciting. A lot of planes don't get recognized I feel. Then again it would probably be a race from scratch.
There should be templates that can be applied to any race for planetouched of every plane. Like, a Dwarf that is planetouched by the Beastlands, with a bonus to Wisdom, and some druid spells. Or, a Limbo-planetouched Tortle with an Intelligence bonus, and Chaos Bolt, Mold Earth, and Phantasmal Force. (maybe some added spell lists as well.)
Sounds like a Dragonmark kind of thing, but any race can get it.
Yeah, kind of like that. They already created a way to do it, so why not make it available to all races?
that sounds like an really neat idea, especially free expanded spell lists, becuase hell yeah.
So anyways i made an half ogre race once and like, there is not a lot of material to go after when making an half ogre race, unless you just wanna go for them as the only race that is large sized, and then maybe add powerful build on top of large size and increase your strength score maximum to 21 or to go the route of an race with few if any racial traits but really good abillity score improvements
I used a mashup between Goliaths and Bugbears for the stats for a half-ogre.
I would like to add my vote for Gnolls and Half-Ogres as playable races. Also it would be cool if there some way to have a published Half Dwarf, Half Giant and maybe some kind of Insect race.
Half-Dwarf, half-gnome, half-goblin, half-hobgoblin, Thri-Kreen.... I want them all.
Yep, along with all new Aasimar. There are a ton of new races and subraces they could add.
Along the lines of aasimar, some extra plane touched races could be exciting. A lot of planes don't get recognized I feel. Then again it would probably be a race from scratch.
There should be templates that can be applied to any race for planetouched of every plane. Like, a Dwarf that is planetouched by the Beastlands, with a bonus to Wisdom, and some druid spells. Or, a Limbo-planetouched Tortle with an Intelligence bonus, and Chaos Bolt, Mold Earth, and Phantasmal Force. (maybe some added spell lists as well.)
Sounds like a Dragonmark kind of thing, but any race can get it.
Yeah, kind of like that. They already created a way to do it, so why not make it available to all races?
that sounds like an really neat idea, especially free expanded spell lists, becuase hell yeah.
So anyways i made an half ogre race once and like, there is not a lot of material to go after when making an half ogre race, unless you just wanna go for them as the only race that is large sized, and then maybe add powerful build on top of large size and increase your strength score maximum to 21 or to go the route of an race with few if any racial traits but really good abillity score improvements
I used a mashup between Goliaths and Bugbears for the stats for a half-ogre.
would you mind telling us the details?
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i am soup, with too many ideas (all of them very spicy) who has made sufficient homebrew material and character to last an thousand human lifetimes
The primary issue with making the Half-Ogre is that "+2 Str +1 Con, Powerful build" feels stale. I know there are a lot of people against Large characters and against negative modifiers for stats so I am not sure what to do that make them feel unique and balanced.
I think there needs to be a balanced "Large Rule" that can be applied to characters.
I have no problem with negatives to stats as long as they make sense. The -2 Int to Orcs makes no sense to me, and the -2 Str to Khobolds seems unnecessary since they are already small creatures.
I have no problem with negatives to stats as long as they make sense. The -2 Int to Orcs makes no sense to me, and the -2 Str to Khobolds seems unnecessary since they are already small creatures.
I agree, I am just speaking about what seems to be the general consensus based I what I have seen. I am NOT anti negative modifiers.
Orcs (based on their description in the MM) are savages that only value strength. Their stats in the MM have their average INT at 7. There isn't any reference in the MM of them having any cunning or creative ability. Yet people have argued that Orcs should not have a penalty to Intelligence.
The Kobold's -2 strength really doesn't matter as it little to no impact on them because they are already small and they get a +2 to dexterity.
yeah, because if a race is going to be a playable race, and a sentient race, negative modifiers have an entirely different connotation. It's why a lot of people are talking about modifiers being moved to classes instead of races.
It's why a lot of people are talking about modifiers being moved to classes instead of races.
I think that would remove a lot of the creative aspect of choosing a race that matches/doesn't match the class well.
I see where those people are coming from, for sure. My opinion is that, in a fantasy game, where we're literally talking about different species, there is plenty of room for the "half-orcs are stronger than the average halfling, and dwarves are hardier than the average human." By the nature of the game, there are outliers in those statements (the half-orc wizard who dumps strength, etc). That's what creates a diverse, yet reasonable, internally consistent world.
The solution I think I'd propose (for example, to the issue of the Orc's Int penalty, before they fixed it) is that you can make up a racial variant. Sure, most orcs are berserkers and tend to forget which way is right vs. left. But there are a few who excel at the arcane arts (and you give them a bonus to Intelligence as well).
I like that races are what determine your modifiers for ability scores, but negative strength for Kobold and negative Intelligence for Orcs never felt right to me. There are plenty of settings where orcs aren't all evil stupid brutes (Eberron, Wildemount, Spelljammer has Scro).
Kobolds don't need the negative strength since they're small.
Half-Ogres should have minuses to Intelligence and maybe Charisma just to make it feel different from all the other races. Way too many races have +2 STR +1 CON. We have Half-Orcs, Eberron Orcs, Minotaurs, Ravenite Dragonborn, Goliaths, and a couple others I believe.
(What about half-trolls, or trollbloods. I've always wanted those, but it doesn't really make sense in current D&D lore)
In my games, Ogres are the result of Hill Giants and Orcs breeding. That's why they're so weirdly proportioned, and smaller than most other giants.
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Actually, this would open up more creativity, since most min-maxers get hung up on those racial stat-boosts. Which is the reason you don't see orc or goliath wizards too often. Plenty of gnome and high-elf wizards though. How many halfling-barbarians or Kobold paladins get played?
I have seen more than a few Halfling Barbarians and nothing about Kobolds prevents them from being effective Paladins. D&D chose to use the wrong word, it should have been Species, not Race. Orcs, Elves, Humans, Gnomes and all the other species are very genetically diverse and it makes sense for them to have strengths and weaknesses.
I think they made a mistake when they removed stat penalties from the core "races" as there should be a give and take to balance things out. However I do realize that I am in the minority here.
Then make them. In my world, Ogres were created by the interbreeding of Giants and Orcs, Bugbears were originally created by the interbreeding of Orcs and Hobgoblins. Halflings and Humans were created by the interbreeding of Gnomes, Goblins, Elves, Hobgoblins, Dwarves and Orcs over generations. Eventually Humans and Halflings developed from that original mutt race. In my world Dragonborn and Khobolds are related just like Goblins and Hobgoblins.
Okay 1: Definition of a species means that interbreeding with a separate species is somehow not possible, either because of physical, genetic, or other reasons. They they can interbreed and have viable offspring, they aren't a different species.
And just changing it to species does nothing to change the underlying issue, the problematic nature of saying "These two creatures are both sentient beings, but these are all elegant and civilized, and these are all vicious savage beasts, little better than animals". I am not trying to imply anyone, at any stage of the creative process, going back to Gygax himself, ever intended to do that, but it smacks of the kind of thinking racists use to justify their wrong-headed beliefs
Okay 1: Definition of a species means that interbreeding with a separate species is somehow not possible, either because of physical, genetic, or other reasons. They they can interbreed and have viable offspring, they aren't a different species.
And just changing it to species does nothing to change the underlying issue, the problematic nature of saying "These two creatures are both sentient beings, but these are all elegant and civilized, and these are all vicious savage beasts, little better than animals". I am not trying to imply anyone, at any stage of the creative process, going back to Gygax himself, ever intended to do that, but it smacks of the kind of thinking racists use to justify their wrong-headed beliefs
Originally, the term “Goblinoids” included Goblins, Hobgoblins, Bugbears, Orcs, Ogres, Trolls, Gnolls.... They were never originally ment to be “sentient races,” they were originally intended to be Storm Trooper style minion villains that the PCs could slaughter with impunity with no need for any moral dilemma.
Okay 1: Definition of a species means that interbreeding with a separate species is somehow not possible, either because of physical, genetic, or other reasons. They they can interbreed and have viable offspring, they aren't a different species.
And just changing it to species does nothing to change the underlying issue, the problematic nature of saying "These two creatures are both sentient beings, but these are all elegant and civilized, and these are all vicious savage beasts, little better than animals". I am not trying to imply anyone, at any stage of the creative process, going back to Gygax himself, ever intended to do that, but it smacks of the kind of thinking racists use to justify their wrong-headed beliefs
First, that isn't the definition of a species. There is not a universally accepted definition of a species, because there are always tricky exceptions.
Example: There is a species of salamanders that have 7 subspecies. All of the subspecies can interbreed, producing young of one of the parent's subspecies. There is an exception, though. There are two subspecies that cannot interbreed, and don't produce fertile offspring. By your definition of species, these 2 salamander subspecies should be different species, but they can breed with any of the other 5 subspecies producing fertile offspring, so they are the member of the same subspecies, and can't produce fertile offspring.
Other Example: Polar Bears and Grizzly Bears can mate, and produce fertile offspring. These mixes are called Grolar Bears or Pizzly Bears. They are different species though, they have completely different diets, different behaviors, and are different species.
This definition of species is outdated, and not true. It has been the most accepted one in past years, but it is no longer accepted universally.
Therefore, Orcs and Humans can interbreed, produce fertile offspring, and be different species. The same can apply to Gnomes and Elves. If you want, they can interbreed in your games. In Wildemount, Elves and Dwarves can interbreed, Bugbears and Drow can interbreed, basically any mix is possible.
I understand I can make them, but I want some published versions. Mul (Half-Dwarves) existed in previous editions. Rock Gnomes and Stout Halflings are descended from Dwarves. This suggests that interbreeding has happened between those species. I just want some basic rules for species like that.
The ones that I want are Half-Dwarves, Dwarf-Elves, Orc-Dwarves, Human-Halflings, and Gnome-Halflings.
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Please check out my homebrew, I would appreciate feedback:
If there is no good definition of the word "Species" what is the point of using that instead of race or "sub-species"?
and Iamsposta If they were intelligent enough to speak, they are definitely sentient. It was something a lot of players never examined very closely, but has made a lot of newer players very uncomfortable.
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Oh, nice you if you increase the maximum Str to 21 you really open up new territory. I mean, that +5 bonus for 21 instead of +5 bonus for 20 makes it feel really unique. (Just kidding)
But in all seriousness, I think they (or we) could come up with some kind of racial abilities. Ogres have Dark Vision so that is an easy addition. Ogres have serious anger issues so maybe half-ogres can rage once per day as per the barbarain and if they are a barbarian it just adds an extra rage. Or take a few orc traits for an Ogrillon?
Also, Ogres only have a 19 Str, so instead of focusing purely that, look at their toughness instead. They can eat just about anything so maybe give Half-Ogre characters resistance to poison or bonus to AC for their thick hide.
She/Her Player and Dungeon Master
yeah obiously you start with darkvision and ether large size or powerful build, from there you add some chonkiness to em, possibly by stealing relentless and dwarven resillience from hill dwarf and half orc and you have yourself an pretty decent race, but yeah they should defenetly try to come up with unique racial traits
But hey if you cannot find enough good racial traits to make them worthwhile you can go the changeling/ non variant human route and have relatively weak racial traits (darkvision, powerful build and that is about it) but especially strong abillity score increases, maybe +3 to constiution and +2 str or just +3 con +1 str, of course with an hearty -2 to smartitude
i am soup, with too many ideas (all of them very spicy) who has made sufficient homebrew material and character to last an thousand human lifetimes
I used a mashup between Goliaths and Bugbears for the stats for a half-ogre.
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would you mind telling us the details?
i am soup, with too many ideas (all of them very spicy) who has made sufficient homebrew material and character to last an thousand human lifetimes
Stats: +3 Str, +1 Con, -1 Int, -1 Cha
Size: Medium, (8-9’ tall, 400-500 lbs.)
Speed: 30’ walking
Unarmored AC = 13+Dex
Natural Weapon: (Fists) 1d4 bludgeoning
Dark Vision, Natural Athlete, Powerful Build, Stone’s Endurance, Long Limbed
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I also have a much less balanced alternative:
Stats: +3 Str, Max Str raised to 24. +1 Con, -2 Int -2 Cha, Max Int & Cha lowered to 18.
A flat +2 to Unarmored AC. A flat +1d4 to all Melee Weapon Attacks and Unarmed Strikes.
Size: Large
Dark Vision, Long Limbed
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The primary issue with making the Half-Ogre is that "+2 Str +1 Con, Powerful build" feels stale. I know there are a lot of people against Large characters and against negative modifiers for stats so I am not sure what to do that make them feel unique and balanced.
I think there needs to be a balanced "Large Rule" that can be applied to characters.
She/Her Player and Dungeon Master
I have no problem with negatives to stats as long as they make sense. The -2 Int to Orcs makes no sense to me, and the -2 Str to Khobolds seems unnecessary since they are already small creatures.
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I agree, I am just speaking about what seems to be the general consensus based I what I have seen. I am NOT anti negative modifiers.
Orcs (based on their description in the MM) are savages that only value strength. Their stats in the MM have their average INT at 7. There isn't any reference in the MM of them having any cunning or creative ability. Yet people have argued that Orcs should not have a penalty to Intelligence.
The Kobold's -2 strength really doesn't matter as it little to no impact on them because they are already small and they get a +2 to dexterity.
She/Her Player and Dungeon Master
yeah, because if a race is going to be a playable race, and a sentient race, negative modifiers have an entirely different connotation. It's why a lot of people are talking about modifiers being moved to classes instead of races.
I think that would remove a lot of the creative aspect of choosing a race that matches/doesn't match the class well.
I see where those people are coming from, for sure. My opinion is that, in a fantasy game, where we're literally talking about different species, there is plenty of room for the "half-orcs are stronger than the average halfling, and dwarves are hardier than the average human." By the nature of the game, there are outliers in those statements (the half-orc wizard who dumps strength, etc). That's what creates a diverse, yet reasonable, internally consistent world.
The solution I think I'd propose (for example, to the issue of the Orc's Int penalty, before they fixed it) is that you can make up a racial variant. Sure, most orcs are berserkers and tend to forget which way is right vs. left. But there are a few who excel at the arcane arts (and you give them a bonus to Intelligence as well).
Again, just my opinion.
Partway through the quest for absolute truth.
I like that races are what determine your modifiers for ability scores, but negative strength for Kobold and negative Intelligence for Orcs never felt right to me. There are plenty of settings where orcs aren't all evil stupid brutes (Eberron, Wildemount, Spelljammer has Scro).
Kobolds don't need the negative strength since they're small.
Half-Ogres should have minuses to Intelligence and maybe Charisma just to make it feel different from all the other races. Way too many races have +2 STR +1 CON. We have Half-Orcs, Eberron Orcs, Minotaurs, Ravenite Dragonborn, Goliaths, and a couple others I believe.
(What about half-trolls, or trollbloods. I've always wanted those, but it doesn't really make sense in current D&D lore)
In my games, Ogres are the result of Hill Giants and Orcs breeding. That's why they're so weirdly proportioned, and smaller than most other giants.
Please check out my homebrew, I would appreciate feedback:
Spells, Monsters, Subclasses, Races, Arcknight Class, Occultist Class, World, Enigmatic Esoterica forms
Actually, this would open up more creativity, since most min-maxers get hung up on those racial stat-boosts. Which is the reason you don't see orc or goliath wizards too often. Plenty of gnome and high-elf wizards though. How many halfling-barbarians or Kobold paladins get played?
I have seen more than a few Halfling Barbarians and nothing about Kobolds prevents them from being effective Paladins. D&D chose to use the wrong word, it should have been Species, not Race. Orcs, Elves, Humans, Gnomes and all the other species are very genetically diverse and it makes sense for them to have strengths and weaknesses.
I think they made a mistake when they removed stat penalties from the core "races" as there should be a give and take to balance things out. However I do realize that I am in the minority here.
She/Her Player and Dungeon Master
The core races should be called Species, or something like that, and the subraces called races. This would just make more sense.
I also want rules for other race combinations, like Halfing and Gnome, or Goliath and Orc.
Please check out my homebrew, I would appreciate feedback:
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Then make them. In my world, Ogres were created by the interbreeding of Giants and Orcs, Bugbears were originally created by the interbreeding of Orcs and Hobgoblins. Halflings and Humans were created by the interbreeding of Gnomes, Goblins, Elves, Hobgoblins, Dwarves and Orcs over generations. Eventually Humans and Halflings developed from that original mutt race. In my world Dragonborn and Khobolds are related just like Goblins and Hobgoblins.
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Okay 1: Definition of a species means that interbreeding with a separate species is somehow not possible, either because of physical, genetic, or other reasons. They they can interbreed and have viable offspring, they aren't a different species.
And just changing it to species does nothing to change the underlying issue, the problematic nature of saying "These two creatures are both sentient beings, but these are all elegant and civilized, and these are all vicious savage beasts, little better than animals". I am not trying to imply anyone, at any stage of the creative process, going back to Gygax himself, ever intended to do that, but it smacks of the kind of thinking racists use to justify their wrong-headed beliefs
Originally, the term “Goblinoids” included Goblins, Hobgoblins, Bugbears, Orcs, Ogres, Trolls, Gnolls.... They were never originally ment to be “sentient races,” they were originally intended to be Storm Trooper style minion villains that the PCs could slaughter with impunity with no need for any moral dilemma.
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First, that isn't the definition of a species. There is not a universally accepted definition of a species, because there are always tricky exceptions.
Example: There is a species of salamanders that have 7 subspecies. All of the subspecies can interbreed, producing young of one of the parent's subspecies. There is an exception, though. There are two subspecies that cannot interbreed, and don't produce fertile offspring. By your definition of species, these 2 salamander subspecies should be different species, but they can breed with any of the other 5 subspecies producing fertile offspring, so they are the member of the same subspecies, and can't produce fertile offspring.
Other Example: Polar Bears and Grizzly Bears can mate, and produce fertile offspring. These mixes are called Grolar Bears or Pizzly Bears. They are different species though, they have completely different diets, different behaviors, and are different species.
This definition of species is outdated, and not true. It has been the most accepted one in past years, but it is no longer accepted universally.
Therefore, Orcs and Humans can interbreed, produce fertile offspring, and be different species. The same can apply to Gnomes and Elves. If you want, they can interbreed in your games. In Wildemount, Elves and Dwarves can interbreed, Bugbears and Drow can interbreed, basically any mix is possible.
I understand I can make them, but I want some published versions. Mul (Half-Dwarves) existed in previous editions. Rock Gnomes and Stout Halflings are descended from Dwarves. This suggests that interbreeding has happened between those species. I just want some basic rules for species like that.
The ones that I want are Half-Dwarves, Dwarf-Elves, Orc-Dwarves, Human-Halflings, and Gnome-Halflings.
Please check out my homebrew, I would appreciate feedback:
Spells, Monsters, Subclasses, Races, Arcknight Class, Occultist Class, World, Enigmatic Esoterica forms
If there is no good definition of the word "Species" what is the point of using that instead of race or "sub-species"?
and Iamsposta If they were intelligent enough to speak, they are definitely sentient. It was something a lot of players never examined very closely, but has made a lot of newer players very uncomfortable.