I understand that they are supposed to be a utility cleric but that idea isnt really enforced with anything other then a couple of their domain spells and Blessing of the Trickster. Invoke Duplicity and especially Cloak of Shadows are very selfish abilities most of the time and fail to double down on the "utility support" idea. They only thing this class really has going for it is Pass w/o Trace.
you do realize that utillity and cooperation/ support are diffrent things right? utility is more a term used to describe thing that are useful and that can solve problems, something that both invoke dublicity and cloak of shadows can do quite nicely
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i am soup, with too many ideas (all of them very spicy) who has made sufficient homebrew material and character to last an thousand human lifetimes
I don't think Invoke Duplicity is as good for utility as you're making it out to be. Anything it can accomplish outside of combat could be done with Silent Image (which has a much better mileage since it lasts 10 minutes rather than 1), with the only real gain it has being once you get the domain capstone. It could be useful for problem solving, but it's nothing a wizard, bard, or sorcerer couldn't do in roughly the same way, but where as their version takes a spell slot and you can eventually replace it with a better spell, invoke duplicity takes one of your two given channel divinities to effectively cast a worse version of the Silent Image spell. Also, I still think Cloak of Shadows is nice, but depending on your DM it could be better or worse, since 6 seconds out of combat would be a variable factor that I can see many DMs cutting it short.
I understand that they are supposed to be a utility cleric but that idea isnt really enforced with anything other then a couple of their domain spells and Blessing of the Trickster. Invoke Duplicity and especially Cloak of Shadows are very selfish abilities most of the time and fail to double down on the "utility support" idea. They only thing this class really has going for it is Pass w/o Trace.
you do realize that utillity and cooperation/ support are diffrent things right? utility is more a term used to describe thing that are useful and that can solve problems, something that both invoke dublicity and cloak of shadows can do quite nicely
A utility character and a support character are different things yes. And a utility support as a hybrid is another thing altogether, which is what i was talking about. Dont come at me with nonexistant logic like im making things up. Im not even the only person in this thread who has used this term.
And yes i am aware of the definition of support. And no, invoke duplicity is very weak utility and cloak of shadows is one of the worse channel divinity options in the PHB
Also, it would be very nice if they redid the giant soul/ rune knight shtick again and made a Runesmith Artificer. a more primal, mystical artificer that is still very much a craftsman would be interesting to see.
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It's ok Ranger, you'll always be cool to me.. Unless druid gets another use for its wild shape charges.
Also, it would be very nice if they redid the giant soul/ rune knight shtick again and made a Runesmith Artificer. a more primal, mystical artificer that is still very much a craftsman would be interesting to see.
Runesmith artificer would be cool, but I feel that a college of runes bard would be fantastic!
Whole Rune Splatbook, with a subclass for every class? And some feats - that’d be fantastic
**** it, maybe reintruduce the mechanics of the rune scribe, they were magic items to begin with so maybe each of the rune classes gets to attune to these runes
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i am soup, with too many ideas (all of them very spicy) who has made sufficient homebrew material and character to last an thousand human lifetimes
Runesmith artificer would be cool, but I feel that a college of runes bard would be fantastic!
Whole Rune Splatbook, with a subclass for every class? And some feats - that’d be fantastic
**** it, maybe reintruduce the mechanics of the rune scribe, they were magic items to begin with so maybe each of the rune classes gets to attune to these runes
Are you secretly Oprah? “And you get a rune! And you get a rune! And you get a rune....”
We were just talking about rune-based and giant based classes, so presumably runes and giants?
That was what I thought too.
yeah i know each is connected ot runes and giants but each cannot have the exact same gimmic of using the exact same runes, there has got to be at least a few diffrences between them, the rouge seems connected to a particular deity, the artificer to fire giants, the wizard to wolves (?) (hell yeah wolf wizard), lastly who is bran and why does he grant my warlock an pact with rune magic? will the monk be all about catching and hurling boulders, as well as an ki dream gaze abillity and some mason's tools?
Also dont think an bard collage of the scalds should use runes, scalds and bards in general are all about the oral tradition, they dont typically write a lot down, might deviate to far from the core of the class. Yeah they can talk to fey and conjure storms but i would like for them to remain illiterate, the words are mightier when spoken in a performance by an mighty scald instead of read from an puny rock, so they have to be unique in some sense
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i am soup, with too many ideas (all of them very spicy) who has made sufficient homebrew material and character to last an thousand human lifetimes
Yeah, working on a deadline for tonight so haven’t got much change to go into depth.
Artificer - Fire Giant crafting (which they are famous for). Much stronger, giant themed infusions as subclass feature?
Bard - multi-turn songs/spells with really potent effects, with the risk of being interupted?
Monk - I liked the Stein pun, but also yeah a strength based monk (including ac) that can throw rocks would be cool.
nice, but some notes:
-singing does seem like the kind of thing that should have been a feature from the start, maybe you can enter some kin of "warsong" with your bardic inspiration, similar to the bladesong wizard or rage, but instead you must contiunally sing, dance and move to maintain the effect
-you would not need to make the steing monk strength based, while it is their highest stat what makes stonge giants special among giants is how nimble they are, the grace with wich they move and their wisdom
-woud not the ild artificer overlap quite a bit with an rune knight using the ild rune?
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i am soup, with too many ideas (all of them very spicy) who has made sufficient homebrew material and character to last an thousand human lifetimes
I don’t think there would he much overlap with the Rune Knight and Artificer, yes the Rune Knight can get advantage on Blacksmithing, but I’m talking about crafting giant themed weapons and armour - not short rest runes of each giant type
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I thought that the Rune Knight was a bit weird. Correct me if I'm wrong, but weren't most of the Runes short term? When I think of rune magic, I tend to think of a more artificery (is that a word?) subclass, with more permanent runes. But having a Rune/giant themed subclass for each class would be cool.
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A fool pulls the leaves. A brute chops the trunk. A sage digs the roots.
you do realize that utillity and cooperation/ support are diffrent things right? utility is more a term used to describe thing that are useful and that can solve problems, something that both invoke dublicity and cloak of shadows can do quite nicely
i am soup, with too many ideas (all of them very spicy) who has made sufficient homebrew material and character to last an thousand human lifetimes
I don't think Invoke Duplicity is as good for utility as you're making it out to be. Anything it can accomplish outside of combat could be done with Silent Image (which has a much better mileage since it lasts 10 minutes rather than 1), with the only real gain it has being once you get the domain capstone. It could be useful for problem solving, but it's nothing a wizard, bard, or sorcerer couldn't do in roughly the same way, but where as their version takes a spell slot and you can eventually replace it with a better spell, invoke duplicity takes one of your two given channel divinities to effectively cast a worse version of the Silent Image spell.
Also, I still think Cloak of Shadows is nice, but depending on your DM it could be better or worse, since 6 seconds out of combat would be a variable factor that I can see many DMs cutting it short.
It's ok Ranger, you'll always be cool to me.. Unless druid gets another use for its wild shape charges.
A utility character and a support character are different things yes. And a utility support as a hybrid is another thing altogether, which is what i was talking about. Dont come at me with nonexistant logic like im making things up. Im not even the only person in this thread who has used this term.
And yes i am aware of the definition of support. And no, invoke duplicity is very weak utility and cloak of shadows is one of the worse channel divinity options in the PHB
Also, it would be very nice if they redid the giant soul/ rune knight shtick again and made a Runesmith Artificer. a more primal, mystical artificer that is still very much a craftsman would be interesting to see.
It's ok Ranger, you'll always be cool to me.. Unless druid gets another use for its wild shape charges.
I’d like this, I love Rune Knight (though yes it is quite strong)
That artificer sounds cool.
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Runesmith artificer would be cool, but I feel that a college of runes bard would be fantastic!
Whole Rune Splatbook, with a subclass for every class? And some feats - that’d be fantastic
I would second this motion.
**** it, maybe reintruduce the mechanics of the rune scribe, they were magic items to begin with so maybe each of the rune classes gets to attune to these runes
i am soup, with too many ideas (all of them very spicy) who has made sufficient homebrew material and character to last an thousand human lifetimes
Are you secretly Oprah? “And you get a rune! And you get a rune! And you get a rune....”
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The re-Ordning
that is cool and all but what is the central premise behind each subclass, right now this is just a bunch of cool sounding names
i am soup, with too many ideas (all of them very spicy) who has made sufficient homebrew material and character to last an thousand human lifetimes
We were just talking about rune-based and giant based classes, so presumably runes and giants?
It's ok Ranger, you'll always be cool to me.. Unless druid gets another use for its wild shape charges.
That was what I thought too.
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yeah i know each is connected ot runes and giants but each cannot have the exact same gimmic of using the exact same runes, there has got to be at least a few diffrences between them, the rouge seems connected to a particular deity, the artificer to fire giants, the wizard to wolves (?) (hell yeah wolf wizard), lastly who is bran and why does he grant my warlock an pact with rune magic? will the monk be all about catching and hurling boulders, as well as an ki dream gaze abillity and some mason's tools?
Also dont think an bard collage of the scalds should use runes, scalds and bards in general are all about the oral tradition, they dont typically write a lot down, might deviate to far from the core of the class. Yeah they can talk to fey and conjure storms but i would like for them to remain illiterate, the words are mightier when spoken in a performance by an mighty scald instead of read from an puny rock, so they have to be unique in some sense
i am soup, with too many ideas (all of them very spicy) who has made sufficient homebrew material and character to last an thousand human lifetimes
Yeah, working on a deadline for tonight so haven’t got much change to go into depth.
Artificer - Fire Giant crafting (which they are famous for). Much stronger, giant themed infusions as subclass feature?
Barbarian - freekin Giants, I dunno a feature that lets you identify with one of the ordining’s for rage.
Bard - multi-turn songs/spells with really potent effects, with the risk of being interupted?
Cleric - based on the person in charge of all the spirituality of Giant culture - able to bestow semi-permant blessings on party members?
Druid - Hill Giants, use shape to change into one?
Monk - I liked the Stein pun, but also yeah a strength based monk (including ac) that can throw rocks would be cool.
Paladin - no idea
Ranger - Turn into mist/cloud for mobility and partial intangibility
Rogue - Loki from MCU
Warlock - hahahah *brand, umm you are branded by a Rune by one of the Giant Gods (chose) - all sorts of creative stuff possible from that
Wizard - though a storm wizard could be cool.
nice, but some notes:
-singing does seem like the kind of thing that should have been a feature from the start, maybe you can enter some kin of "warsong" with your bardic inspiration, similar to the bladesong wizard or rage, but instead you must contiunally sing, dance and move to maintain the effect
-you would not need to make the steing monk strength based, while it is their highest stat what makes stonge giants special among giants is how nimble they are, the grace with wich they move and their wisdom
-woud not the ild artificer overlap quite a bit with an rune knight using the ild rune?
i am soup, with too many ideas (all of them very spicy) who has made sufficient homebrew material and character to last an thousand human lifetimes
I don’t think there would he much overlap with the Rune Knight and Artificer, yes the Rune Knight can get advantage on Blacksmithing, but I’m talking about crafting giant themed weapons and armour - not short rest runes of each giant type
I thought that the Rune Knight was a bit weird. Correct me if I'm wrong, but weren't most of the Runes short term? When I think of rune magic, I tend to think of a more artificery (is that a word?) subclass, with more permanent runes. But having a Rune/giant themed subclass for each class would be cool.
A fool pulls the leaves. A brute chops the trunk. A sage digs the roots.
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