Mmm ... yeah I'm not going to shut up or let anyone shut me up from expressing my opinions just because it's a 'roadblock' to how they think they're going to influence Wizards into making something. Disagree with me? Fine, but you have no place telling how I can or cannot complain. Why don't you quit wasting time trying to tell me what I can't say and instead put your ideas to paper and wow me with them.
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Canto alla vita alla sua bellezza ad ogni sua ferita ogni sua carezza!
I sing to life and to its tragic beauty To pain and to strife, but all that dances through me The rise and the fall, I've lived through it all!
I'd imagine that deep down, there's some fear that too much negative feedback will cause WotC to flush the whole thing like they did with the Mystic and 4e.
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Any time an unfathomably powerful entity sweeps in and offers godlike rewards in return for just a few teensy favors, it’s a scam. Unless it’s me. I’d never lie to you, reader dearest.
Mmm ... yeah I'm not going to shut up or let anyone shut me up from expressing my opinions just because it's a 'roadblock' to how they think they're going to influence Wizards into making something. Disagree with me? Fine, but you have no place telling how I can or cannot complain. Why don't you quit wasting time trying to tell me what I can't say and instead put your ideas to paper and wow me with them.
We're working on it. We're not experience game designers, so it might take awhile. I'm not telling you to shut up or say that your opinion is invalid. I'm just saying these main points:
Psionics belongs in both D&D and 5e. The fact that it exists has nothing to do with whether or not you allow it in your games. If it has a flavor you feel is too sci-fi, just don't allow it.
People complaining that they don't like something existing is what makes UA disappear. That's what made the Mystic go away. That's why Brute fighters don't exist, and neither do alchemical homunculi. Your opinions when expressed can limit what other people get. It doesn't hurt you if the Psion is a full class with a new system if you don't like the idea of psionics. If you convince Wizards of the Coast that it doesn't belong in 5e somehow, that could harm the way I play the game, because suddenly I have to make a homebrew version of the Psion because you convinced them not to make it.
You are free to speak your opinion as much as anyone else, but be aware that your opinion will actually hurt other people's games if it is gone along with. Mine will not. My opinion harms no one, while yours does.
No opinion is invalid, but some are safer than others.
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Please check out my homebrew, I would appreciate feedback:
Woah woah woah. Let’s not fight. As far as I’m concerned Ophid has the right to shout it from the rooftops. That may hurt my dream of getting an official 5e psionic class that I don’t hate, it might not. But if we take away their right to shout it from the rooftops, then someone could take away mine and I say no that. I’ll just have to A) shout louder, and B) wow them with my design.
Also, I am an aspiring independent game designer. I was about to start taking my first board game to open playtest nights near me when the world ended. I may not have the time and resources that the WotC has, but I do have passion and almost 3 decades of gaming experience across many fields, and I believe I can make a go at this professionally one day.
No opinion is invalid, but some are safer than others.
I have a hard time believing that sometimes, especially when I have seen many an opinion on the Internet that runs counter to reality.
Really? What about the Love domain cleric? That came out an immediately people started digitally screaming about it, so it was taken down almost immediately.
Give some examples to that and I'll be more inclined to believe you.
Woah woah woah. Let’s not fight. As far as I’m concerned Ophid has the right to shout it from the rooftops. That may hurt my dream of getting an official 5e psionic class that I don’t hate, it might not. But if we take away their right to shout it from the rooftops, then someone could take away mine and I say no that. I’ll just have to A) shout louder, and B) wow him with my design.
Also, I am an aspiring independent game designer. I was about to start taking my first board game to open playtest nights near me when the world ended. I may not have the time and resources that the WotC has, but I do have passion and almost 3 decades of gaming experience across many fields, and I believe I can make a go at this professionally one day.
Sorry if my last few posts were a bit aggressive. I'm not a game-designer. I'm just a nerd almost graduating from high school that knows how 5e works well enough to design things for it. I didn't know that you were making a board game, that's cool. I'm not, I do know from experience and many hours of D&D how the game works.
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Please check out my homebrew, I would appreciate feedback:
In short, I've been working for sometime on a Psion full class and its just about ready to go. Would like to see how much actual interest there is and maybe solicit a few people to playtest and review.
Rethinking my stance on allowing a full psionic class to have advantage on psionic talent die rolls, or picking between the two rolls.
Maybe it makes more sense to give it more uses of Psi Replenishment. Something like either a number of times equal to Int modifier, or simply being able to use it after a short and long rest.
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Some of my 5e homebrews on GM Binder for Dark Sun, Dark Sun Sub-classes. Feel free to message me with any questions, suggestions, or critiques.
Rethinking my stance on allowing a full psionic class to have advantage on psionic talent die rolls, or picking between the two rolls.
Maybe it makes more sense to give it more uses of Psi Replenishment. Something like either a number of times equal to Int modifier, or simply being able to use it after a short and long rest.
well if an proper psionics based class works similar to spellcasting and they have psi points or spells to fuel their effects, then it would be way easier to just let them spend two psi points or a 1st level spell slot to gain the same effect, would it not? since you are just as likely to increase your psi dice as you are to decrease it, you are rarely if ever going to see an d4 used for psi after the 1st level unless you use features to ower your dice often or you are really unlikely. If you have a lot of uses of psi replenishment the mechanic might become a little trivial, but that might be fine
also hey if psionics will be defined by this mechanic and we get an proprer psionic class, would it not be neat to have the option (ie it is not manditory) to use an roll on your psi dice instead of your proficency bonus to set your DC? might be a little too powerful, perhaps you would need to put an limit like only doing this once per short or long rest and your psi dice being reduced an extra step every time you do tho
Ok so that no an awful idea, I mean your average save dcs would probably still be a little lower than using stats (assuming good stats). But at the least it would be funny late game to have someone need a 22 to save vs a charm spell then the next round have to save vs an 11 at level 18 or something.
The downside would be the decreasing die size for that scenario. Probably need to have some additional restorations of their psi die.
Probably add the proficiency bonus in similarly to normal spell docs.
Lvl 1 psionic dc 8+prof+d6= ~13.5
Lvl 20 psionic dc 8+5+d12=~19.5
Which would actually be a little higher than your average spellcasters(depending on if they have special gear or stuff to improve dcs)
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"Where words fail, swords prevail. Where blood is spilled, my cup is filled" -Cartaphilus
"I have found the answer to the meaning of life. You ask me what the answer is? You already know what the answer to life is. You fear it more than the strike of a viper, the ravages of disease, the ire of a lover. The answer is always death. But death is a gentle mistress with a sweet embrace, and you owe her a debt of restitution. Life is not a gift, it is a loan."
Rethinking my stance on allowing a full psionic class to have advantage on psionic talent die rolls, or picking between the two rolls.
Maybe it makes more sense to give it more uses of Psi Replenishment. Something like either a number of times equal to Int modifier, or simply being able to use it after a short and long rest.
well if an proper psionics based class works similar to spellcasting and they have psi points or spells to fuel their effects, then it would be way easier to just let them spend two psi points or a 1st level spell slot to gain the same effect, would it not? since you are just as likely to increase your psi dice as you are to decrease it, you are rarely if ever going to see an d4 used for psi after the 1st level unless you use features to ower your dice often or you are really unlikely. If you have a lot of uses of psi replenishment the mechanic might become a little trivial, but that might be fine
also hey if psionics will be defined by this mechanic and we get an proprer psionic class, would it not be neat to have the option (ie it is not manditory) to use an roll on your psi dice instead of your proficency bonus to set your DC? might be a little too powerful, perhaps you would need to put an limit like only doing this once per short or long rest and your psi dice being reduced an extra step every time you do tho
Except Psionics should not be Spellcasting at all.
Except Psionics should not be Spellcasting at all.
Why? It doesn't make any sense to reinvent a huge chunk of the core rules for the sake of ideological purity. The Artificer, Warlock, playable Gith race and monsters with Innate Spellcasting (Psionics) prove that spellcasting can be reskinned in various ways and that spell-based psionics work.
Except Psionics should not be Spellcasting at all.
Why? It doesn't make any sense to reinvent a huge chunk of the core rules for the sake of ideological purity. The Artificer, Warlock, playable Gith race and monsters with Innate Spellcasting (Psionics) prove that spellcasting can be reskinned in various ways and that spell-based psionics work.
Just because it can doesn’t mean that it should. And it isn’t just for the sake of “ideological purity” that I say this. If it’s just going to be another spellcaster then don’t call it a Psionicist and make another spellcaster. The whole point of Psionics in the first place was as an alternative system as opposed to Spellcasting. If it will just be more of the same things we already have then they might as well not even bother. If they’re going to bother, then they should do it properly.
And why would they need to “reinvent a huge chunk of the core rules” at all?!? The PsiDie mechanic works for text based, non-Spellcasting abilities for both the Fighter and Rogue from that UA. Why not just make a base class that works the same way?!? No need to reinvent anything whatsoever.
Agreed, just because they can come up with a new system doesn't mean they should. It's a lot of work for dubious benefit.
The whole point of Psionics in the first place was as an alternative system as opposed to Spellcasting.
The point of psionics is to have mind-powered magic. The actual rules are relatively unimportant compared to not introducing unnecessary complexity and producing the desired effects (telepathy, telekinesis, etc.)
And why would they need to “reinvent a huge chunk of the core rules” at all?!?
The Spellcasting rules take up a whole chapter of the Player's Handbook. They're such a big and useful part of the rules that the devs leverage them repeatedly in player races, magic items and monster stat blocks for all sorts of magical abilities that may or may not be considered spellcasting in the traditional sense of waving a focus and saying some magic words.
You're asking the devs to give up or reinvent established rules for casting times, concentration, spell levels, targeting area effects, and interactions with Dispel Magicjust for the sake of having different mechanics rather than because different mechanics would be a much better fit. Look at how much they had to add to the Mystic going that route.
The PsiDie mechanic works for text based, non-Spellcasting abilities for both the Fighter and Rogue from that UA. Why not just make a base class that works the same way?!? No need to reinvent anything whatsoever.
There's room for both? The Mind Flayer is the quintessential psionic monster and it makes use of both the spellcasting rules and unique non-spell abilities. It doesn't feel any less psionic when a Mind Flayer lifts a player with Levitate because as far as any observer can tell they're lifting their victim with their mind.
The Artificer is another great example of reskinning spellcasting since their effects all come from their tools or magic items.
The whole point of Psionics in the first place was as an alternative system as opposed to Spellcasting.
The point of psionics is to have mind-powered magic. The actual rules are relatively unimportant compared to not introducing unnecessary complexity and producing the desired effects (telepathy, telekinesis, etc.)
We disagree fundamentally. For me the point is not just to have mind magic. For me the entire point is to have a separate mechanic that has nothing to do with “spells” at all.
And why would they need to “reinvent a huge chunk of the core rules” at all?!?
The Spellcasting rules take up a whole chapter of the Player's Handbook. They're such a big and useful part of the rules that the devs leverage them repeatedly in player races, magic items and monster stat blocks for all sorts of magical abilities that may or may not be considered spellcasting in the traditional sense of waving a focus and saying some magic words.
You're asking the devs to give up or reinvent established rules for casting times, concentration, spell levels, targeting area effects, and interactions with Dispel Magicjust for the sake of having different mechanics rather than because different mechanics would be a much better fit. Look at how much they had to add to the Mystic going that route.
That’s entirely my problem. Everything uses the Spellcasting mechanic. It’s boring. What’s wrong with some diversity for crying out loud?!? And if they would simply stop trying to make Psionics as something similar but different from Spellcasting and just make something entirely different from spellcasting it would have led to different results. That was the issue with the Mystic. Instead of making Psionics similar to spells at all, they should just make them similar to class features, only instead of granting specific ones at specific levels, give them choices. That would be the only thing they should need that is in any way even remotely similar to spells is the ability to choose the “powers” (class/subclass features) that best suit the player’s character concept.
Going by your logic, there is no need for any single class feature whatsoever, just make everything spells then. Action Surge, Sneak Attack, Rage... just make them spells too. But they didn’t, did they?
The PsiDie mechanic works for text based, non-Spellcasting abilities for both the Fighter and Rogue from that UA. Why not just make a base class that works the same way?!? No need to reinvent anything whatsoever.
There's room for both? The Mind Flayer is the quintessential psionic monster and it makes use of both the spellcasting rules and unique non-spell abilities. It doesn't feel any less psionic when a Mind Flayer lifts a player with Levitate because as far as any observer can tell they're lifting their victim with their mind.
The Artificer is another great example of reskinning spellcasting since their effects all come from their tools or magic items.
It does in fact feel less Psionic because Mind Flayers are supposed to hate Spellcasting. This is exactly the kind of thing they should change. In fact, it should have never been that way in the first place.
And to your point about the Artificer: The fact that we as players are simply supposed to reskin Spellcasting as coming from those gadgets is one of the laziest, POS game designs I have ever seen and WotC should be ashamed of themselves for it. Like kneeling on grains of uncooked rice in the corner self flagellating with barbed scourges ashamed. That is a completely irrelevant argument as far as I am concerned.
Ok so that no an awful idea, I mean your average save dcs would probably still be a little lower than using stats (assuming good stats). But at the least it would be funny late game to have someone need a 22 to save vs a charm spell then the next round have to save vs an 11 at level 18 or something.
The downside would be the decreasing die size for that scenario. Probably need to have some additional restorations of their psi die.
Probably add the proficiency bonus in similarly to normal spell docs.
Lvl 1 psionic dc 8+prof+d6= ~13.5
Lvl 20 psionic dc 8+5+d12=~19.5
Which would actually be a little higher than your average spellcasters(depending on if they have special gear or stuff to improve dcs)
oh no i was talking about replacing your proficiency bonus, not your abillity score, so it would be 8 + d6 + int mod, so a little stronger than what you would achive with just your proficiency bonus at first and then after that it just kinda slows down, also was also thinking that to avoid such an abillity being abused too much your dice gets lowered if you roll higher than your spellcasting abillity for the roll, so you will only use the dice to set your DC when you are shure that it is worth the risk and you have the right size
also a neat mechanic to give to an potential psion: if you roll a 1 on your psionic dice and your dice is already on its maximum size, you may reroll the dice but must use the second result, flavour to make such an more unique class
Except Psionics should not be Spellcasting at all.
with "like spellcasting" i in this specific context mean any class were you have an limited resource and you may spend this limited resource to create supernatural effects that you have already chosen (ether prepared or known), sorry for not clarifying this, yeah by this very vague standard anything from the way monks do it to the way mystics do it can be considered "like spellcasting"
You're asking the devs to give up or reinvent established rules for casting times, concentration, spell levels, targeting area effects, and interactions with Dispel Magicjust for the sake of having different mechanics rather than because different mechanics would be a much better fit. Look at how much they had to add to the Mystic going that route
psionics still used the same rules for concentration and areas, with the caveats of no components and no counterspelling, the only realy thing the mystic gave up in terms of core design was previously existing spells and cantrips (psi points are basically just spell points), but still they were able to take a lot of inspiration from those previous spells when making new effects, and for core abillities it borrowed a lot from existing sources like 8th and 14th level features being derived from the cleric class. Yes a lot of the subclass abillities were completely new, and so were a lot of the more op / hit or miss class features.
There is absolutely nothing wrong with psions sharing mechanics like spell slots with other classes, or even having effects similar, but i still feel it is completely justified in being its own, diffrent and unique system, no need to reinvent the wheel, but it having its own distinct effects and core differneces, its own way of classifying effects and its own lore
((if one feels that no counterspelling and no components is too OP, Just by adding specific spells that somehow counteract psions, mechanically similar to counterspell, would be able to remove that worry, and perhaps if we ever get an proper class again we might see some kind of "symptom" system where depending on the psionic effect you are trying to produce something diffrent will happen right before the spell, maybe if you are using an fire / ice discipline the temperature arround you might change slightly, if you use a disiplince like giant growth or brute strength the earth below you tremors whenever you activate them and right before the main effect the blood flow to your vessels might increase and your musles bulge outwards.
Similarly if you want to limit the usage of disciplines the way that components limit spell casters, well psions have mental powers and thus mental barriers, so you might introduce "dogmas" that force an mystic to act a certain way if they wish to be able to use their disciplines, for instance an mystic might not be able to use mastery of fire if they are wet or if they feel wet, you might be unable to use brute force and giant growth if you ever wear shoes or if you act too calmly, be unable to read thoughts if you are enraged or filled with fear, if you use power over earth you might have to stand on the ground or abstain from being in the air to long etc. Yes both of these systems would be weird and clunky but would also add a LOT of flavor both to the class and the individual disciplines))
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i am soup, with too many ideas (all of them very spicy) who has made sufficient homebrew material and character to last an thousand human lifetimes
That’s entirely my problem. Everything uses the Spellcasting mechanic. It’s boring.
I don't find it boring, and I'd rather they not add extra complexity to the game without a good reason.
And if they would simply stop trying to make Psionics as something similar but different from Spellcasting and just make something entirely different from spellcasting it would have led to different results. That was the issue with the Mystic.
The issue with the Mystic is that the devs didn't have a clear picture of what a Mystic should do. The actual mechanics was the least of their problems. Is it a damage dealing class? A support class? What distinguishes them from other classes in that niche? "Psionics class" is not an identity.
Going by your logic, there is no need for any single class feature whatsoever, just make everything spells then. Action Surge, Sneak Attack, Rage... just make them spells too. But they didn’t, did they?
That would be silly, since Spellcasting is a magic system, and those aren't magic. But they do reuse those rules liberally when magic is involved, as they should. It's smart and efficient game design. The devs do less work and the players and DM instantly know how to handle that ability.
It does in fact feel less Psionic because Mind Flayers are supposed to hate Spellcasting. This is exactly the kind of thing they should change. In fact, it should have never been that way in the first place.
No, they hate arcane spellcasting because they see it as inferior to their psionic power, much like how dwarves aren't keen on arcane spellcasting but happily use divine magic.
And to your point about the Artificer: The fact that we as players are simply supposed to reskin Spellcasting as coming from those gadgets is one of the laziest, POS game designs I have ever seen and WotC should be ashamed of themselves for it.
On the contrary, it's an elegant solution to supporting an incredibly broad range of character tropes with a minimum amount of fuss. Instead of shoving a huge amount of new rules down everyone's throats (including the DM), they allowed players that want to shoot spells from a musket, have a utility belt full of inventions or do everything through chemistry to each get what they want with some minor tweaks to the rules for material components.
You'll change your tune once you start seeing how difficult it is to strike a balance between flavor and usability, clarity and simplicity, and making your class specific enough to have a clear identity but broad enough to have tons of subclasses. Then try doing all of that while trying to satisfy tons of people that all claim to want different things but in all likelihood don't actually know what they want until it's put in front of them. Designing something you want to use is child's play.
You'll change your tune once you start seeing how difficult it is to strike a balance between flavor and usability, clarity and simplicity, and making your class specific enough to have a clear identity but broad enough to have tons of subclasses. Then try doing all of that while trying to satisfy tons of people that all claim to want different things but in all likelihood don't actually know what they want until it's put in front of them. Designing something you want to use is child's play.
Seeing as how I have been working on it for a while, and am fully aware of it, and haven’t changed my tune, I doubt that.
If they make a Dark Sun book without including a non-caster psion class, I won't allow it in my games. If they do psionics wrong, I'm not allowing it. Until they publish an Unearthed Arcana with the 3 requirements I have for the psionic system in 5e, I'm not voting for it.
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Please check out my homebrew, I would appreciate feedback:
Mmm ... yeah I'm not going to shut up or let anyone shut me up from expressing my opinions just because it's a 'roadblock' to how they think they're going to influence Wizards into making something. Disagree with me? Fine, but you have no place telling how I can or cannot complain. Why don't you quit wasting time trying to tell me what I can't say and instead put your ideas to paper and wow me with them.
Canto alla vita
alla sua bellezza
ad ogni sua ferita
ogni sua carezza!
I sing to life and to its tragic beauty
To pain and to strife, but all that dances through me
The rise and the fall, I've lived through it all!
I'd imagine that deep down, there's some fear that too much negative feedback will cause WotC to flush the whole thing like they did with the Mystic and 4e.
Any time an unfathomably powerful entity sweeps in and offers godlike rewards in return for just a few teensy favors, it’s a scam. Unless it’s me. I’d never lie to you, reader dearest.
Tasha
Ophidimancer, I can 100% respect that.
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We're working on it. We're not experience game designers, so it might take awhile. I'm not telling you to shut up or say that your opinion is invalid. I'm just saying these main points:
No opinion is invalid, but some are safer than others.
Please check out my homebrew, I would appreciate feedback:
Spells, Monsters, Subclasses, Races, Arcknight Class, Occultist Class, World, Enigmatic Esoterica forms
Woah woah woah. Let’s not fight. As far as I’m concerned Ophid has the right to shout it from the rooftops. That may hurt my dream of getting an official 5e psionic class that I don’t hate, it might not. But if we take away their right to shout it from the rooftops, then someone could take away mine and I say no that. I’ll just have to A) shout louder, and B) wow them with my design.
Also, I am an aspiring independent game designer. I was about to start taking my first board game to open playtest nights near me when the world ended. I may not have the time and resources that the WotC has, but I do have passion and almost 3 decades of gaming experience across many fields, and I believe I can make a go at this professionally one day.
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Really? What about the Love domain cleric? That came out an immediately people started digitally screaming about it, so it was taken down almost immediately.
Give some examples to that and I'll be more inclined to believe you.
Please check out my homebrew, I would appreciate feedback:
Spells, Monsters, Subclasses, Races, Arcknight Class, Occultist Class, World, Enigmatic Esoterica forms
Sorry if my last few posts were a bit aggressive. I'm not a game-designer. I'm just a nerd almost graduating from high school that knows how 5e works well enough to design things for it. I didn't know that you were making a board game, that's cool. I'm not, I do know from experience and many hours of D&D how the game works.
Please check out my homebrew, I would appreciate feedback:
Spells, Monsters, Subclasses, Races, Arcknight Class, Occultist Class, World, Enigmatic Esoterica forms
Sorry for the cross post, but wanted to direct some of your attention here since you all are the ones probably most inerested:
https://www.dndbeyond.com/forums/dungeons-dragons-discussion/homebrew-house-rules/67276-gauging-interest-in-homebrew-psionics-full-class
In short, I've been working for sometime on a Psion full class and its just about ready to go. Would like to see how much actual interest there is and maybe solicit a few people to playtest and review.
Rethinking my stance on allowing a full psionic class to have advantage on psionic talent die rolls, or picking between the two rolls.
Maybe it makes more sense to give it more uses of Psi Replenishment. Something like either a number of times equal to Int modifier, or simply being able to use it after a short and long rest.
Some of my 5e homebrews on GM Binder for Dark Sun, Dark Sun Sub-classes. Feel free to message me with any questions, suggestions, or critiques.
well if an proper psionics based class works similar to spellcasting and they have psi points or spells to fuel their effects, then it would be way easier to just let them spend two psi points or a 1st level spell slot to gain the same effect, would it not? since you are just as likely to increase your psi dice as you are to decrease it, you are rarely if ever going to see an d4 used for psi after the 1st level unless you use features to ower your dice often or you are really unlikely. If you have a lot of uses of psi replenishment the mechanic might become a little trivial, but that might be fine
also hey if psionics will be defined by this mechanic and we get an proprer psionic class, would it not be neat to have the option (ie it is not manditory) to use an roll on your psi dice instead of your proficency bonus to set your DC? might be a little too powerful, perhaps you would need to put an limit like only doing this once per short or long rest and your psi dice being reduced an extra step every time you do tho
i am soup, with too many ideas (all of them very spicy) who has made sufficient homebrew material and character to last an thousand human lifetimes
Ok so that no an awful idea, I mean your average save dcs would probably still be a little lower than using stats (assuming good stats). But at the least it would be funny late game to have someone need a 22 to save vs a charm spell then the next round have to save vs an 11 at level 18 or something.
The downside would be the decreasing die size for that scenario. Probably need to have some additional restorations of their psi die.
Probably add the proficiency bonus in similarly to normal spell docs.
Lvl 1 psionic dc 8+prof+d6= ~13.5
Lvl 20 psionic dc 8+5+d12=~19.5
Which would actually be a little higher than your average spellcasters(depending on if they have special gear or stuff to improve dcs)
"Where words fail, swords prevail. Where blood is spilled, my cup is filled" -Cartaphilus
"I have found the answer to the meaning of life. You ask me what the answer is? You already know what the answer to life is. You fear it more than the strike of a viper, the ravages of disease, the ire of a lover. The answer is always death. But death is a gentle mistress with a sweet embrace, and you owe her a debt of restitution. Life is not a gift, it is a loan."
Except Psionics should not be Spellcasting at all.
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Why? It doesn't make any sense to reinvent a huge chunk of the core rules for the sake of ideological purity. The Artificer, Warlock, playable Gith race and monsters with Innate Spellcasting (Psionics) prove that spellcasting can be reskinned in various ways and that spell-based psionics work.
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Just because it can doesn’t mean that it should. And it isn’t just for the sake of “ideological purity” that I say this. If it’s just going to be another spellcaster then don’t call it a Psionicist and make another spellcaster. The whole point of Psionics in the first place was as an alternative system as opposed to Spellcasting. If it will just be more of the same things we already have then they might as well not even bother. If they’re going to bother, then they should do it properly.
And why would they need to “reinvent a huge chunk of the core rules” at all?!? The PsiDie mechanic works for text based, non-Spellcasting abilities for both the Fighter and Rogue from that UA. Why not just make a base class that works the same way?!? No need to reinvent anything whatsoever.
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Agreed, just because they can come up with a new system doesn't mean they should. It's a lot of work for dubious benefit.
The point of psionics is to have mind-powered magic. The actual rules are relatively unimportant compared to not introducing unnecessary complexity and producing the desired effects (telepathy, telekinesis, etc.)
The Spellcasting rules take up a whole chapter of the Player's Handbook. They're such a big and useful part of the rules that the devs leverage them repeatedly in player races, magic items and monster stat blocks for all sorts of magical abilities that may or may not be considered spellcasting in the traditional sense of waving a focus and saying some magic words.
You're asking the devs to give up or reinvent established rules for casting times, concentration, spell levels, targeting area effects, and interactions with Dispel Magic just for the sake of having different mechanics rather than because different mechanics would be a much better fit. Look at how much they had to add to the Mystic going that route.
There's room for both? The Mind Flayer is the quintessential psionic monster and it makes use of both the spellcasting rules and unique non-spell abilities. It doesn't feel any less psionic when a Mind Flayer lifts a player with Levitate because as far as any observer can tell they're lifting their victim with their mind.
The Artificer is another great example of reskinning spellcasting since their effects all come from their tools or magic items.
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We disagree fundamentally. For me the point is not just to have mind magic. For me the entire point is to have a separate mechanic that has nothing to do with “spells” at all.
That’s entirely my problem. Everything uses the Spellcasting mechanic. It’s boring. What’s wrong with some diversity for crying out loud?!? And if they would simply stop trying to make Psionics as something similar but different from Spellcasting and just make something entirely different from spellcasting it would have led to different results. That was the issue with the Mystic. Instead of making Psionics similar to spells at all, they should just make them similar to class features, only instead of granting specific ones at specific levels, give them choices. That would be the only thing they should need that is in any way even remotely similar to spells is the ability to choose the “powers” (class/subclass features) that best suit the player’s character concept.
Going by your logic, there is no need for any single class feature whatsoever, just make everything spells then. Action Surge, Sneak Attack, Rage... just make them spells too. But they didn’t, did they?
It does in fact feel less Psionic because Mind Flayers are supposed to hate Spellcasting. This is exactly the kind of thing they should change. In fact, it should have never been that way in the first place.
And to your point about the Artificer: The fact that we as players are simply supposed to reskin Spellcasting as coming from those gadgets is one of the laziest, POS game designs I have ever seen and WotC should be ashamed of themselves for it. Like kneeling on grains of uncooked rice in the corner self flagellating with barbed scourges ashamed. That is a completely irrelevant argument as far as I am concerned.
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oh no i was talking about replacing your proficiency bonus, not your abillity score, so it would be 8 + d6 + int mod, so a little stronger than what you would achive with just your proficiency bonus at first and then after that it just kinda slows down, also was also thinking that to avoid such an abillity being abused too much your dice gets lowered if you roll higher than your spellcasting abillity for the roll, so you will only use the dice to set your DC when you are shure that it is worth the risk and you have the right size
also a neat mechanic to give to an potential psion: if you roll a 1 on your psionic dice and your dice is already on its maximum size, you may reroll the dice but must use the second result, flavour to make such an more unique class
with "like spellcasting" i in this specific context mean any class were you have an limited resource and you may spend this limited resource to create supernatural effects that you have already chosen (ether prepared or known), sorry for not clarifying this, yeah by this very vague standard anything from the way monks do it to the way mystics do it can be considered "like spellcasting"
psionics still used the same rules for concentration and areas, with the caveats of no components and no counterspelling, the only realy thing the mystic gave up in terms of core design was previously existing spells and cantrips (psi points are basically just spell points), but still they were able to take a lot of inspiration from those previous spells when making new effects, and for core abillities it borrowed a lot from existing sources like 8th and 14th level features being derived from the cleric class. Yes a lot of the subclass abillities were completely new, and so were a lot of the more op / hit or miss class features.
There is absolutely nothing wrong with psions sharing mechanics like spell slots with other classes, or even having effects similar, but i still feel it is completely justified in being its own, diffrent and unique system, no need to reinvent the wheel, but it having its own distinct effects and core differneces, its own way of classifying effects and its own lore
((if one feels that no counterspelling and no components is too OP, Just by adding specific spells that somehow counteract psions, mechanically similar to counterspell, would be able to remove that worry, and perhaps if we ever get an proper class again we might see some kind of "symptom" system where depending on the psionic effect you are trying to produce something diffrent will happen right before the spell, maybe if you are using an fire / ice discipline the temperature arround you might change slightly, if you use a disiplince like giant growth or brute strength the earth below you tremors whenever you activate them and right before the main effect the blood flow to your vessels might increase and your musles bulge outwards.
Similarly if you want to limit the usage of disciplines the way that components limit spell casters, well psions have mental powers and thus mental barriers, so you might introduce "dogmas" that force an mystic to act a certain way if they wish to be able to use their disciplines, for instance an mystic might not be able to use mastery of fire if they are wet or if they feel wet, you might be unable to use brute force and giant growth if you ever wear shoes or if you act too calmly, be unable to read thoughts if you are enraged or filled with fear, if you use power over earth you might have to stand on the ground or abstain from being in the air to long etc. Yes both of these systems would be weird and clunky but would also add a LOT of flavor both to the class and the individual disciplines))
i am soup, with too many ideas (all of them very spicy) who has made sufficient homebrew material and character to last an thousand human lifetimes
I don't find it boring, and I'd rather they not add extra complexity to the game without a good reason.
The issue with the Mystic is that the devs didn't have a clear picture of what a Mystic should do. The actual mechanics was the least of their problems. Is it a damage dealing class? A support class? What distinguishes them from other classes in that niche? "Psionics class" is not an identity.
That would be silly, since Spellcasting is a magic system, and those aren't magic. But they do reuse those rules liberally when magic is involved, as they should. It's smart and efficient game design. The devs do less work and the players and DM instantly know how to handle that ability.
No, they hate arcane spellcasting because they see it as inferior to their psionic power, much like how dwarves aren't keen on arcane spellcasting but happily use divine magic.
On the contrary, it's an elegant solution to supporting an incredibly broad range of character tropes with a minimum amount of fuss. Instead of shoving a huge amount of new rules down everyone's throats (including the DM), they allowed players that want to shoot spells from a musket, have a utility belt full of inventions or do everything through chemistry to each get what they want with some minor tweaks to the rules for material components.
You'll change your tune once you start seeing how difficult it is to strike a balance between flavor and usability, clarity and simplicity, and making your class specific enough to have a clear identity but broad enough to have tons of subclasses. Then try doing all of that while trying to satisfy tons of people that all claim to want different things but in all likelihood don't actually know what they want until it's put in front of them. Designing something you want to use is child's play.
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Seeing as how I have been working on it for a while, and am fully aware of it, and haven’t changed my tune, I doubt that.
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If they make a Dark Sun book without including a non-caster psion class, I won't allow it in my games. If they do psionics wrong, I'm not allowing it. Until they publish an Unearthed Arcana with the 3 requirements I have for the psionic system in 5e, I'm not voting for it.
Please check out my homebrew, I would appreciate feedback:
Spells, Monsters, Subclasses, Races, Arcknight Class, Occultist Class, World, Enigmatic Esoterica forms