A few days ago, I got an announcement that the guys from Critical Role were going to be playing in the Elder Scrolls Online world, as part of the launch of the new ESO chapter. It got me thinking, how easy would it be to combine Dungeons and Dragons, with Elder Scrolls Online, and create a single unified TTRPG.
Also using the character creation process of Elder Scrolls Online, to create characters/NPCs for this combination game.
Can I have your thoughts please, and if you were doing this, how would you do it. Also, if you have any suggestions for me, then feel free to give me those as well.
I look forward to hearing what you all have to say.
XD
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
A caffeinated nerd who has played TTRPGs or a number of years and is very much a fantasy adventure geek.
D&D isn’t the best system for creating an experience that feels like Elder Scrolls. I’d use Genesys instead.
Genesys is the superior system for 90% of games, especially the story-centered kind Mercer runs. I think the only reason he still does D&D is because it’s iconic and attracts more viewers/sponsors. The “social combat” system is crap, but ignoring that, it’s the best general RPG system ever made. (Dread is the best overall, but it’s too narrow. D&D is also narrow, since it struggles to do anything but classic pulp fantasy, for which it remains #1.) I wish more people would get their heads out of the D&D sand.
I mean the Critical Role one shot happened a couple of days ago. You could watch that and take notes?
This, basically.
Also, what exactly do you mean by "a single unified TTRPG"? Do you want to combine the worlds of ESO and Forgotten Realms? Do you want to play ESO using D&D rules (that's easy, just play ESO using D&D rules)? Do you want to combine the two rulesets into one (probably a bad idea)? If you just want to play ESO using D&D rules that's dead simple. Just say "hey people, the setting for this campaign will the world of Elder Scrolls Online" and run the world of ESO using D&D rules. You will have to do some basic translation of power and races and such but that's usually not a too much of a problem.
I mean the Critical Role one shot happened a couple of days ago. You could watch that and take notes?
This, basically.
Also, what exactly do you mean by "a single unified TTRPG"? Do you want to combine the worlds of ESO and Forgotten Realms? Do you want to play ESO using D&D rules (that's easy, just play ESO using D&D rules)? Do you want to combine the two rulesets into one (probably a bad idea)? If you just want to play ESO using D&D rules that's dead simple. Just say "hey people, the setting for this campaign will the world of Elder Scrolls Online" and run the world of ESO using D&D rules. You will have to do some basic translation of power and races and such but that's usually not a too much of a problem.
Combining the lore and stories of the two worlds, and altering them so that they made sense together would not be too hard for me. I am a creative writer for the most part.
What would be much harder is the numbers. The two systems calculate things like damage, armour class and so on quite differently. Then there is the rules and the mechanics.
Also, because Elder Scrolls Online, is a video game, it isn’t made to use the D20 system either. I am actually not sure what system it uses, which ties into what I was saying above, about how the numbers would be hard to reconcile.
Just as an example of what I’m talking about; in ESO, you might have an armour rating of 3278. In D&D, you’d have an AC of 16. This matters because ESO does not have an AC in the way that D&D does. Where an attack would miss in D&D if your attack roll was not higher than the opposing AC, in ESO that doesn’t happen.
In ESO attacks do, for arguments sake, 5100 worth of damage. Your armour rating is then deducted, bring the actual damage to 1822, and your health pool is reduced by that much.
That’s actually an over simplification as characters in ESO have other stats and resistances that also come into play, depending on what type of damage is dealt, by what weapon, and what race/monster, time of day, whether you have buffs or debuts and so on.
If I was to just say “guys, we’re playing Tamriel today, and use the D&D rule set, then it’s just D&D in the Elder Scrolls world. The same as if I just said we’re playing in FR, but then used the rule set from ESO, at that point it’s just ESO in the Forgotten Realms.
What I was hoping to achieve was an open sandbox game, with an over arching plot, that feels like ESO, but which plays as a TTRPG, like D&D.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
A caffeinated nerd who has played TTRPGs or a number of years and is very much a fantasy adventure geek.
I mean the Critical Role one shot happened a couple of days ago. You could watch that and take notes?
This, basically.
Also, what exactly do you mean by "a single unified TTRPG"? Do you want to combine the worlds of ESO and Forgotten Realms? Do you want to play ESO using D&D rules (that's easy, just play ESO using D&D rules)? Do you want to combine the two rulesets into one (probably a bad idea)? If you just want to play ESO using D&D rules that's dead simple. Just say "hey people, the setting for this campaign will the world of Elder Scrolls Online" and run the world of ESO using D&D rules. You will have to do some basic translation of power and races and such but that's usually not a too much of a problem.
Combining the lore and stories of the two worlds, and altering them so that they made sense together would not be too hard for me. I am a creative writer for the most part.
What would be much harder is the numbers. The two systems calculate things like damage, armour class and so on quite differently. Then there is the rules and the mechanics.
Also, because Elder Scrolls Online, is a video game, it isn’t made to use the D20 system either. I am actually not sure what system it uses, which ties into what I was saying above, about how the numbers would be hard to reconcile.
Just as an example of what I’m talking about; in ESO, you might have an armour rating of 3278. In D&D, you’d have an AC of 16. This matters because ESO does not have an AC in the way that D&D does. Where an attack would miss in D&D if your attack roll was not higher than the opposing AC, in ESO that doesn’t happen.
In ESO attacks do, for arguments sake, 5100 worth of damage. Your armour rating is then deducted, bring the actual damage to 1822, and your health pool is reduced by that much.
That’s actually an over simplification as characters in ESO have other stats and resistances that also come into play, depending on what type of damage is dealt, by what weapon, and what race/monster, time of day, whether you have buffs or debuts and so on.
If I was to just say “guys, we’re playing Tamriel today, and use the D&D rule set, then it’s just D&D in the Elder Scrolls world. The same as if I just said we’re playing in FR, but then used the rule set from ESO, at that point it’s just ESO in the Forgotten Realms.
What I was hoping to achieve was an open sandbox game, with an over arching plot, that feels like ESO, but which plays as a TTRPG, like D&D.
First of all, "the numbers" is is the rules and mechanics.
Secondly, you are contradicting yourself in what you say you want since D&D already is "an open sandbox game, with an over arching plot". If that's what you want you already have it. If you want to combine the two settings then just do it. Decide which D&D races best correspond with the races of ESO or make new ones. Same goes for stats for weapons and armor. However, if you want to combine the two systems you are doomed to fail. Not only will it be a lot of work basically for nothing, you will also make things overly complicated and you will end up with something that is neither D&D nor ESO, which fails to get what you wanted. I really see no reason why you would want to combine the two systems, though. Just go with D&D or, as NaivaraArnuanna mentioned, choose a completely different system.
I mean the Critical Role one shot happened a couple of days ago. You could watch that and take notes?
This, basically.
Also, what exactly do you mean by "a single unified TTRPG"? Do you want to combine the worlds of ESO and Forgotten Realms? Do you want to play ESO using D&D rules (that's easy, just play ESO using D&D rules)? Do you want to combine the two rulesets into one (probably a bad idea)? If you just want to play ESO using D&D rules that's dead simple. Just say "hey people, the setting for this campaign will the world of Elder Scrolls Online" and run the world of ESO using D&D rules. You will have to do some basic translation of power and races and such but that's usually not a too much of a problem.
Combining the lore and stories of the two worlds, and altering them so that they made sense together would not be too hard for me. I am a creative writer for the most part.
What would be much harder is the numbers. The two systems calculate things like damage, armour class and so on quite differently. Then there is the rules and the mechanics.
Also, because Elder Scrolls Online, is a video game, it isn’t made to use the D20 system either. I am actually not sure what system it uses, which ties into what I was saying above, about how the numbers would be hard to reconcile.
Just as an example of what I’m talking about; in ESO, you might have an armour rating of 3278. In D&D, you’d have an AC of 16. This matters because ESO does not have an AC in the way that D&D does. Where an attack would miss in D&D if your attack roll was not higher than the opposing AC, in ESO that doesn’t happen.
In ESO attacks do, for arguments sake, 5100 worth of damage. Your armour rating is then deducted, bring the actual damage to 1822, and your health pool is reduced by that much.
That’s actually an over simplification as characters in ESO have other stats and resistances that also come into play, depending on what type of damage is dealt, by what weapon, and what race/monster, time of day, whether you have buffs or debuts and so on.
If I was to just say “guys, we’re playing Tamriel today, and use the D&D rule set, then it’s just D&D in the Elder Scrolls world. The same as if I just said we’re playing in FR, but then used the rule set from ESO, at that point it’s just ESO in the Forgotten Realms.
What I was hoping to achieve was an open sandbox game, with an over arching plot, that feels like ESO, but which plays as a TTRPG, like D&D.
So again, Critical Role did this a few weeks ago as far as using D&D as a frame to blame Elder Scrolls "not online but as a TTRPG (to promote the online game)". Did you like how they did it? If so, run with it. Otherwise mechanically it's sort of on you to houserule things that will make your D&D feel like Elder Scrolls. Your other option would be basically to create your own game system that somehow reflects how you think ES0 works.
As far as running the game beyond the mechanics, playing an open sandbox game with an over arching plot (which isn't the contradiction some say it is, sandboxes and open worlds are different, you can have an over arching event which the players contend with within a sandbox) is up to the DM.
"Help me brew [insert specific mechanics you feel are needed] to give my game a more ESO feel" might get some support in the Homebrew Houserule forum.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Jander Sunstar is the thinking person's Drizzt, fight me.
Here’s the main barrier (besides ESO’s very different classes): ESO, unlike the single-player Elder Scrolls games, is a time management game rather than a resource management one like D&D. I think translating mechanics that feel like that would be near impossible.
When you say combine the lore of the two worlds, I’m a bit confused. D&D isn’t a world, it’s a multiverse. Sure there’s FR, but there’s a number other published settings, and countless homebrew settings. Even in published FR adventures, no two tables will have the same lore, if only because they will have a different set of PCs who acted as the heroes. So which D&D lore are you trying to combine?
What do you mean by “feels like” ESO? That might help, what part(s) of ESO are you trying to capture?
If it’s just the openness, I’m with lostwhilefishing. D&D is already an open sandbox game, just stop using published adventures and write your own, and there you go, open sandbox. (Actually D&D is an even more open sandbox than a computer game can ever be. A computer might let you go into every building, but D&D will let you go in, make friends with the people inside even if they are unscripted NPCs, then leave and burn the place down. And in a computer game, sooner or later you run into the edge of the map. In D&D, the only edge is the DMs imagination and ability to improv.)
I actually don’t entirely agree with this. Where the numbers are dictated by the rules and mechanics, I don’t think the rules and mechanics are necessarily dictated by the numbers. To me, “the numbers,” such as; ability scores, armour class, damage, saves etc., are representative of the rules and mechanics, but they are not the actual rules and mechanics themselves.
I view the two as being connected, but separate.
REGARDING LORE:
Where it is true that there are many “worlds” within D&D and great variation in terms of lore, there is officially published and consistent lore.
For example, there is lore in the various source books about the forgotten realms. That lore stays relatively, if not totally consistent. I am not saying that every DM uses the lore as published, but there is published lore.
D&D IS NOT A WORLD:
This is true, and that was perhaps a miscommunication on my part. When I talk about the “world” of D&D, I am referring to forgotten realms, and specifically the sword coast.
More specifically, I am referring to the sword coast adventures and published sources, as would be experienced by a player, playing within that “world” and utilising the 5e rule set.
The confusion was my fault. I am aware that D&D is far more than just the sword coast, or even the forgotten realms, but I am so used to that setting and those adventures, that, that is the “world” to me.
You were correct to pull me up on that however. Whatever my personal vernacular might be, and regardless of where it is understood by the people I play with or not, I was using incorrect terminology. Something that I should have paid more attention to when conversing with the wider community, rather than my own social circles.
I AM MAKING IT HARDER THAN IT NEEDS TO BE
I think you are all correct. I think I got this idea in my head and it got stuck there, when in actual fact, it doesn’t have to be as hard as I was making it.
Perhaps taking a step back and rethinking the ideas that I have, and taken other examples into consideration, would be a good step.
At the end of the day, it comes down to homebrew, and where that can get complicated, and I might end up checking out the homebrew sections at some point, having a clearer idea about what I want to do will defiantly make the process easier.
So, in summary, thanks for all your replies. I enjoyed reading them, and your advice was also good.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
A caffeinated nerd who has played TTRPGs or a number of years and is very much a fantasy adventure geek.
I actually don’t entirely agree with this. Where the numbers are dictated by the rules and mechanics, I don’t think the rules and mechanics are necessarily dictated by the numbers. To me, “the numbers,” such as; ability scores, armour class, damage, saves etc., are representative of the rules and mechanics, but they are not the actual rules and mechanics themselves.
I view the two as being connected, but separate.
The numbers without the rules are meaningless and the rules are dependent on the numbers. What you are arguing is semantics and isn't really anything I'm interested in.
I mean the Critical Role one shot happened a couple of days ago. You could watch that and take notes?
This, basically.
Also, what exactly do you mean by "a single unified TTRPG"? Do you want to combine the worlds of ESO and Forgotten Realms? Do you want to play ESO using D&D rules (that's easy, just play ESO using D&D rules)? Do you want to combine the two rulesets into one (probably a bad idea)? If you just want to play ESO using D&D rules that's dead simple. Just say "hey people, the setting for this campaign will the world of Elder Scrolls Online" and run the world of ESO using D&D rules. You will have to do some basic translation of power and races and such but that's usually not a too much of a problem.
Combining the lore and stories of the two worlds, and altering them so that they made sense together would not be too hard for me. I am a creative writer for the most part.
I think you may be underestimating this. You could do it to your satisfaction, but would it satisfy others? Both franchises have die-hard fans that will hate any concession made by their game for the sake of the other. Just real basic things like which races would and would not make the cut would be extremely controversial and very unlikely to please the majority of people.
On a more basic level, I don't think these things need to be fused to create a whole that's better than their parts - if that's even possible. I think the different sets of perspectives, stories, and rules make for a richer overall experience for a player. I love pizza and I love ice cream, but I prefer to eat them separately.
Hi,
A few days ago, I got an announcement that the guys from Critical Role were going to be playing in the Elder Scrolls Online world, as part of the launch of the new ESO chapter. It got me thinking, how easy would it be to combine Dungeons and Dragons, with Elder Scrolls Online, and create a single unified TTRPG.
Also using the character creation process of Elder Scrolls Online, to create characters/NPCs for this combination game.
Can I have your thoughts please, and if you were doing this, how would you do it. Also, if you have any suggestions for me, then feel free to give me those as well.
I look forward to hearing what you all have to say.
XD
A caffeinated nerd who has played TTRPGs or a number of years and is very much a fantasy adventure geek.
It appears someone is already working on it: https://uestrpg.wixsite.com/home/getting-started
D&D isn’t the best system for creating an experience that feels like Elder Scrolls. I’d use Genesys instead.
I mean the Critical Role one shot happened a couple of days ago. You could watch that and take notes?
Jander Sunstar is the thinking person's Drizzt, fight me.
Genesys is the superior system for 90% of games, especially the story-centered kind Mercer runs. I think the only reason he still does D&D is because it’s iconic and attracts more viewers/sponsors. The “social combat” system is crap, but ignoring that, it’s the best general RPG system ever made. (Dread is the best overall, but it’s too narrow. D&D is also narrow, since it struggles to do anything but classic pulp fantasy, for which it remains #1.) I wish more people would get their heads out of the D&D sand.
Wizard (Gandalf) of the Tolkien Club
This, basically.
Also, what exactly do you mean by "a single unified TTRPG"? Do you want to combine the worlds of ESO and Forgotten Realms? Do you want to play ESO using D&D rules (that's easy, just play ESO using D&D rules)? Do you want to combine the two rulesets into one (probably a bad idea)? If you just want to play ESO using D&D rules that's dead simple. Just say "hey people, the setting for this campaign will the world of Elder Scrolls Online" and run the world of ESO using D&D rules. You will have to do some basic translation of power and races and such but that's usually not a too much of a problem.
Combining the lore and stories of the two worlds, and altering them so that they made sense together would not be too hard for me. I am a creative writer for the most part.
What would be much harder is the numbers. The two systems calculate things like damage, armour class and so on quite differently. Then there is the rules and the mechanics.
Also, because Elder Scrolls Online, is a video game, it isn’t made to use the D20 system either. I am actually not sure what system it uses, which ties into what I was saying above, about how the numbers would be hard to reconcile.
Just as an example of what I’m talking about; in ESO, you might have an armour rating of 3278. In D&D, you’d have an AC of 16. This matters because ESO does not have an AC in the way that D&D does. Where an attack would miss in D&D if your attack roll was not higher than the opposing AC, in ESO that doesn’t happen.
In ESO attacks do, for arguments sake, 5100 worth of damage. Your armour rating is then deducted, bring the actual damage to 1822, and your health pool is reduced by that much.
That’s actually an over simplification as characters in ESO have other stats and resistances that also come into play, depending on what type of damage is dealt, by what weapon, and what race/monster, time of day, whether you have buffs or debuts and so on.
If I was to just say “guys, we’re playing Tamriel today, and use the D&D rule set, then it’s just D&D in the Elder Scrolls world. The same as if I just said we’re playing in FR, but then used the rule set from ESO, at that point it’s just ESO in the Forgotten Realms.
What I was hoping to achieve was an open sandbox game, with an over arching plot, that feels like ESO, but which plays as a TTRPG, like D&D.
A caffeinated nerd who has played TTRPGs or a number of years and is very much a fantasy adventure geek.
First of all, "the numbers" is is the rules and mechanics.
Secondly, you are contradicting yourself in what you say you want since D&D already is "an open sandbox game, with an over arching plot". If that's what you want you already have it. If you want to combine the two settings then just do it. Decide which D&D races best correspond with the races of ESO or make new ones. Same goes for stats for weapons and armor. However, if you want to combine the two systems you are doomed to fail. Not only will it be a lot of work basically for nothing, you will also make things overly complicated and you will end up with something that is neither D&D nor ESO, which fails to get what you wanted. I really see no reason why you would want to combine the two systems, though. Just go with D&D or, as NaivaraArnuanna mentioned, choose a completely different system.
So again, Critical Role did this a few weeks ago as far as using D&D as a frame to blame Elder Scrolls "not online but as a TTRPG (to promote the online game)". Did you like how they did it? If so, run with it. Otherwise mechanically it's sort of on you to houserule things that will make your D&D feel like Elder Scrolls. Your other option would be basically to create your own game system that somehow reflects how you think ES0 works.
As far as running the game beyond the mechanics, playing an open sandbox game with an over arching plot (which isn't the contradiction some say it is, sandboxes and open worlds are different, you can have an over arching event which the players contend with within a sandbox) is up to the DM.
"Help me brew [insert specific mechanics you feel are needed] to give my game a more ESO feel" might get some support in the Homebrew Houserule forum.
Jander Sunstar is the thinking person's Drizzt, fight me.
Here’s the main barrier (besides ESO’s very different classes): ESO, unlike the single-player Elder Scrolls games, is a time management game rather than a resource management one like D&D. I think translating mechanics that feel like that would be near impossible.
Wizard (Gandalf) of the Tolkien Club
When you say combine the lore of the two worlds, I’m a bit confused. D&D isn’t a world, it’s a multiverse. Sure there’s FR, but there’s a number other published settings, and countless homebrew settings. Even in published FR adventures, no two tables will have the same lore, if only because they will have a different set of PCs who acted as the heroes. So which D&D lore are you trying to combine?
What do you mean by “feels like” ESO? That might help, what part(s) of ESO are you trying to capture?
If it’s just the openness, I’m with lostwhilefishing. D&D is already an open sandbox game, just stop using published adventures and write your own, and there you go, open sandbox. (Actually D&D is an even more open sandbox than a computer game can ever be. A computer might let you go into every building, but D&D will let you go in, make friends with the people inside even if they are unscripted NPCs, then leave and burn the place down. And in a computer game, sooner or later you run into the edge of the map. In D&D, the only edge is the DMs imagination and ability to improv.)
Thanks everyone.
I just want a address a couple of things first.
NUMBERS ARE THE RULES AND MECHANICS:
I actually don’t entirely agree with this. Where the numbers are dictated by the rules and mechanics, I don’t think the rules and mechanics are necessarily dictated by the numbers. To me, “the numbers,” such as; ability scores, armour class, damage, saves etc., are representative of the rules and mechanics, but they are not the actual rules and mechanics themselves.
I view the two as being connected, but separate.
REGARDING LORE:
Where it is true that there are many “worlds” within D&D and great variation in terms of lore, there is officially published and consistent lore.
For example, there is lore in the various source books about the forgotten realms. That lore stays relatively, if not totally consistent. I am not saying that every DM uses the lore as published, but there is published lore.
D&D IS NOT A WORLD:
This is true, and that was perhaps a miscommunication on my part. When I talk about the “world” of D&D, I am referring to forgotten realms, and specifically the sword coast.
More specifically, I am referring to the sword coast adventures and published sources, as would be experienced by a player, playing within that “world” and utilising the 5e rule set.
The confusion was my fault. I am aware that D&D is far more than just the sword coast, or even the forgotten realms, but I am so used to that setting and those adventures, that, that is the “world” to me.
You were correct to pull me up on that however. Whatever my personal vernacular might be, and regardless of where it is understood by the people I play with or not, I was using incorrect terminology. Something that I should have paid more attention to when conversing with the wider community, rather than my own social circles.
I AM MAKING IT HARDER THAN IT NEEDS TO BE
I think you are all correct. I think I got this idea in my head and it got stuck there, when in actual fact, it doesn’t have to be as hard as I was making it.
Perhaps taking a step back and rethinking the ideas that I have, and taken other examples into consideration, would be a good step.
At the end of the day, it comes down to homebrew, and where that can get complicated, and I might end up checking out the homebrew sections at some point, having a clearer idea about what I want to do will defiantly make the process easier.
So, in summary, thanks for all your replies. I enjoyed reading them, and your advice was also good.
A caffeinated nerd who has played TTRPGs or a number of years and is very much a fantasy adventure geek.
The numbers without the rules are meaningless and the rules are dependent on the numbers. What you are arguing is semantics and isn't really anything I'm interested in.
Glad to see you took the advice given to heart.
Cheers!
I think you may be underestimating this. You could do it to your satisfaction, but would it satisfy others? Both franchises have die-hard fans that will hate any concession made by their game for the sake of the other. Just real basic things like which races would and would not make the cut would be extremely controversial and very unlikely to please the majority of people.
On a more basic level, I don't think these things need to be fused to create a whole that's better than their parts - if that's even possible. I think the different sets of perspectives, stories, and rules make for a richer overall experience for a player. I love pizza and I love ice cream, but I prefer to eat them separately.
My homebrew subclasses (full list here)
(Artificer) Swordmage | Glasswright | (Barbarian) Path of the Savage Embrace
(Bard) College of Dance | (Fighter) Warlord | Cannoneer
(Monk) Way of the Elements | (Ranger) Blade Dancer
(Rogue) DaggerMaster | Inquisitor | (Sorcerer) Riftwalker | Spellfist
(Warlock) The Swarm