Hi I'm new to this but hopefully wanting some positive feedback, this is my first long term campaign ever, and am playing a Swashbuckler/ Oath of Vengeance multiclass, but have been lately finding myself constantly getting knocked unconscious when I try to jump into the fray to help my comrades out, my character is a DEX based Paladin who has a rapier and daggers. Perhaps I'm doing something wrong, can I get some tips on playing a DEX Paladin and some opinions?
Tabaxi, Level 9, CON 17, and HP 84. His AC is 17 using Def. Duelist adds 4 for reactions on attacks. His armor is using Mithril Half-Plate, I've only gotten knocked unconscious whenever I've tried to jump into combat helping my teammates out.
17 AC is rather low for a 9th level melee character. You should definitely have a shield, that +2 AC is honestly going to do a lot more for you than the bonus action attack from dual-wielding (which I assume you're doing). And frankly at 9th level you should have something better for armor than Mithral Half-Plate but that's more on your GM. Does your campaign allow feats? Medium Armor Mastery would be a good pick for you. And remember that as a Paladin you have access to spells like Shield of Faith to bolster your AC.
Also, what tactics are you using? Are you sticking close to allies and are they supporting you? Keeping close enough that you and your allies are able to assist each other is important- never allow yourself to get isolated if you can help it.
They're definitely using feats if they have [feat]Defensive Duelist[/feat], which also helps offset the lower AC a bit, although as they've said they're still getting KO'd, I would second swapping the second weapon for a shield to get that +2 AC. If nothing else experiment for a session or two and see how it affects survivability. If it's still not making a big difference for some reason and you're getting KO'd enough that it's hurting your fun, might want to have a civil aside with the DM; it's possible they're overcompensating a bit on Paladin tankiness.
So you current AC strategy seems to be: - Medium armor with a max Dex bonus (+2) - Defensive Duelist (+4 AC with reaction)
Other strategies to consider: 1) Use a shield. The +2 AC should help. Which brings me to #2 2) Switch form a duel weapon fighting style. Your class(es) build offer you other options for your bonus action than just a secondary attack with a dagger; especially with the spell selections of a Paladin that takes a bonus action. The BA option the classes offer improve both defensive and offense when compared to a second attack with a regular dagger. 3)Has your Paladin selected a fighting style yet? The Defense option will give you a +1 to AC when wearing armor. 4) If you want to play a duel weapon fighting style, then you need the Dual Wielder Feat to get the extra +1 to AC. But I would still recommend not attacking with your BA if your Swashbuckler has their Cunning Action;then use Disengage to get avoid reciprocating attacks. Also, does your Swashbuckler have Fancy Footwork feature? Finding tactics to get away from the melee and then only engage when you are making your attacks can be a better "armor class" option than any other armor you don.
You might also want to consider taking the Tough Feat to get the extra hit points.
But I would still recommend not attacking with your BA if your Swashbuckler has their Cunning Action;then use Disengage to get avoid reciprocating attacks. Also, does your Swashbuckler have Fancy Footwork feature?
I'm guessing you've never actually played a Swashbuckler. Fancy Footwork basically negates the need to ever take Disengage -- you use the bonus action to attack a second target (and give you a second shot at Sneak Attack if your first attack missed) instead
EDIT: Or third target, if OP's character is at least 5th level in paladin
Carric Aquissar, elven wannabe artist in his deconstructionist period (Archfey warlock) Lan Kidogo, mapach archaeologist and treasure hunter (Knowledge cleric) Mardan Ferres, elven private investigator obsessed with that one unsolved murder (Assassin rogue) Xhekhetiel, halfling survivor of a Betrayer Gods cult (Runechild sorcerer/fighter)
Hi I'm new to this but hopefully wanting some positive feedback, this is my first long term campaign ever, and am playing a Swashbuckler/ Oath of Vengeance multiclass, but have been lately finding myself constantly getting knocked unconscious when I try to jump into the fray to help my comrades out, my character is a DEX based Paladin who has a rapier and daggers. Perhaps I'm doing something wrong, can I get some tips on playing a DEX Paladin and some opinions?
As others have suggested, the Swashbuckler works best if you stick and move rather than standing in melee and tanking. If you don't end your turn in melee range of your opponents, your AC doesn't matter so much
With that in mind, I'd look at getting spells and magic items that enhance your mobility. Paladins don't get access to longstrider, but maybe someone else in the party can cast it on you ahead of combat. (The Magic Initiate feat is always an option there too, but you might be better off taking shield in that scenario.) misty step is nice to get you out of a tight spot, but you can also just bonus action Dash with Cunning Action if you don't need that BA for another attack. As a tabaxi you already get Feline Agility, which helps greatly. There are also a couple magic item boots that would be golden for you -- the classic boots of speed, but also the new Bigby's book has wayfarer's boots which boost your base walking speed, although being able to cast expeditious retreat is pretty redundant for a rogue
Carric Aquissar, elven wannabe artist in his deconstructionist period (Archfey warlock) Lan Kidogo, mapach archaeologist and treasure hunter (Knowledge cleric) Mardan Ferres, elven private investigator obsessed with that one unsolved murder (Assassin rogue) Xhekhetiel, halfling survivor of a Betrayer Gods cult (Runechild sorcerer/fighter)
I'm actually considering that along with also switching the rapier for a sword or plan to get a halberd/glaive using find steed and armoring it so I can be a bit more mobile either that or get a long sword and shield and get heavier armor so I can buff my AC, and since I'm gonna be dumping my remaining levels into Paladin I plan to get either Heavy Armor Master, or the Shield Master feats maybe even both...
I'm actually considering that along with also switching the rapier for a sword or plan to get a halberd/glaive using find steed and armoring it so I can be a bit more mobile either that or get a long sword and shield and get heavier armor so I can buff my AC, and since I'm gonna be dumping my remaining levels into Paladin I plan to get either Heavy Armor Master, or the Shield Master feats maybe even both...
If you're Dex-based then longswords, halberds, and glaives are all probably bad ideas. Heavy armor is likely not worth it either. Getting a shield and a steed would be good, though. The Shield Master feat generally isn't great.
What are your Strength and Dexterity scores? Also, how many levels do you have in each of your classes?
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Look at what you've done. You spoiled it. You have nobody to blame but yourself. Go sit and think about your actions.
Don't be mean. Rudeness is a vicious cycle, and it has to stop somewhere. Exceptions for things that are funny. Go to the current Competition of the Finest 'Brews! It's a cool place where cool people make cool things.
How I'm posting based on text formatting: Mod Hat Off - Mod Hat Also Off (I'm not a mod)
You might actually get more AC out of Studded Leather armor than you might out of medium armor since you get additional AC from your dex, while medium armor limits the dex that counts towards your AC. Especially if you can get your hands on a set of magic (+1 or +2) studded leather armor, which isn't a huge ask by level 9.
Another thing; swashbuckler allows you to move in and out of melee without provoking attacks of opportunity for targets you've attacked that round. A good way to stretch your HP further is to use that to full advantage. Get in melee, do damage, and then retreat back allowing you to A) if you're intending to tank, you can kite enemies away from squishier allies if you can get them to follow you, or B) take less damage by simple virtue of the fact that you're not in one place long enough to hit.
I'm currently playing a Swashbuckler Rogue/Bear Totem Barbarian and that combo of mobility and damage resistance makes it one of the more survivable characters I've ever played.
You might actually get more AC out of Studded Leather armor than you might out of medium armor since you get additional AC from your dex, while medium armor limits the dex that counts towards your AC. Especially if you can get your hands on a set of magic (+1 or +2) studded leather armor, which isn't a huge ask by level 9.
It's impossible to get a higher AC using light armor than you can get from using medium armor unless you have a way to pump your dex above 20. With studded leather, your AC caps at 17 (12+5), while medium armor also limits your AC to 17 (15+2) unless you pick up Medium Armor Mastery, which boosts it to 18 (15+3).
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Find your own truth, choose your enemies carefully, and never deal with a dragon.
"Canon" is what's factual to D&D lore. "Cannon" is what you're going to be shot with if you keep getting the word wrong.
You might actually get more AC out of Studded Leather armor than you might out of medium armor since you get additional AC from your dex, while medium armor limits the dex that counts towards your AC. Especially if you can get your hands on a set of magic (+1 or +2) studded leather armor, which isn't a huge ask by level 9.
It's impossible to get a higher AC using light armor than you can get from using medium armor unless you have a way to pump your dex above 20. With studded leather, your AC caps at 17 (12+5), while medium armor also limits your AC to 17 (15+2) unless you pick up Medium Armor Mastery, which boosts it to 18 (15+3).
Never realized that. But still, light armor is at least equitable, suffers no stealth penalty, and if you get a decent set (+1 or +2) and combine it with the defense fighting style and/or a shield, it can still really get up there.
You might actually get more AC out of Studded Leather armor than you might out of medium armor since you get additional AC from your dex, while medium armor limits the dex that counts towards your AC. Especially if you can get your hands on a set of magic (+1 or +2) studded leather armor, which isn't a huge ask by level 9.
It's impossible to get a higher AC using light armor than you can get from using medium armor unless you have a way to pump your dex above 20. With studded leather, your AC caps at 17 (12+5), while medium armor also limits your AC to 17 (15+2) unless you pick up Medium Armor Mastery, which boosts it to 18 (15+3).
Never realized that. But still, light armor is at least equitable, suffers no stealth penalty, and if you get a decent set (+1 or +2) and combine it with the defense fighting style and/or a shield, it can still really get up there.
And studded leather is considerably easier to get than half-plate.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Find your own truth, choose your enemies carefully, and never deal with a dragon.
"Canon" is what's factual to D&D lore. "Cannon" is what you're going to be shot with if you keep getting the word wrong.
What is objective or role do you see for your character? How do they fit in with the party and their combat strategies.
With a +4 DEX, you should stick with the rapier as your primary weapon. Also, the other weapon options lack the finesse property and at 4th level your sneak attack is a 2d6.
If you are concern about being knocked out of combat you should devise strategies to increase your total hit point value.
I'm actually considering that along with also switching the rapier for a sword or plan to get a halberd/glaive using find steed and armoring it so I can be a bit more mobile either that or get a long sword and shield and get heavier armor so I can buff my AC, and since I'm gonna be dumping my remaining levels into Paladin I plan to get either Heavy Armor Master, or the Shield Master feats maybe even both...
This is called "just going full paladin." :P Seriously though, if you're looking to go sword and board or reach weapon, you need to start asking yourself what exactly you're getting out of your rogue half. Those weapons mean you give up Sneak Attack. Buffed AC means you don't really need to move and strike, negating your need for Cunning Action and Fancy Footwork. You'd also get more spell slots, better Lay on Hands, your paladin aura, etc.
To be honest, a paladin/rogue is generally just not going to be as good as a full paladin. 5e multiclassing generally results in a suboptimal character unless you're going for some very specific synergy. Not to say it can't be done or it can't be fun, but if you're tweaking your build to try to get the most out of it, the best thing you can probably do is stick to paladin only.
I recommend you make your Dex higher, and use your rogue abilities. The best rogue attack is the sneak attack, and if you stick to that you’ll be better defended, since it’s really hard to see someone in sneak attack mode. You can also combine your paladin abilities (any weapon enhancing spells are good.) with your sneak attack so they do even more damage. I have never played a DEX based paladin, and my only paladin I didn’t play for long with, but I have played a rogue and DMed a paladin. So definitely use your sneak attack and your swashbuckling abilities combined with your dexadin abilities.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
My titles are the great Silver Dragon Lord of the Sky, Second in Command of the Dragon Cult, High Warlock of Cynophobia, High Cultist of Jeff, The Lightning Mage. I’m a ✨Chronically online teenage boy✨, and one of the most active posters on the forums (MORE THAN SALEM AND GONZALO). Always open to talk if you’d like to shoot me a PM! Please don’t hesitate to tell me I’m being a jerk or overbearing, I love helpful feedback! Love y’all!
Hi I'm new to this but hopefully wanting some positive feedback, this is my first long term campaign ever, and am playing a Swashbuckler/ Oath of Vengeance multiclass, but have been lately finding myself constantly getting knocked unconscious when I try to jump into the fray to help my comrades out, my character is a DEX based Paladin who has a rapier and daggers. Perhaps I'm doing something wrong, can I get some tips on playing a DEX Paladin and some opinions?
What is your AC strategy?
What level are you, what's your CON, your HP, and your AC? IE, what's causing you to get knocked out -- is it one specific thing, or several things?
Birgit | Shifter | Sorcerer | Dragonlords
Shayone | Hobgoblin | Sorcerer | Netherdeep
Race? level? feats? AC? shield? Fighting Style?
Tabaxi, Level 9, CON 17, and HP 84. His AC is 17 using Def. Duelist adds 4 for reactions on attacks. His armor is using Mithril Half-Plate, I've only gotten knocked unconscious whenever I've tried to jump into combat helping my teammates out.
17 AC is rather low for a 9th level melee character. You should definitely have a shield, that +2 AC is honestly going to do a lot more for you than the bonus action attack from dual-wielding (which I assume you're doing). And frankly at 9th level you should have something better for armor than Mithral Half-Plate but that's more on your GM. Does your campaign allow feats? Medium Armor Mastery would be a good pick for you. And remember that as a Paladin you have access to spells like Shield of Faith to bolster your AC.
Also, what tactics are you using? Are you sticking close to allies and are they supporting you? Keeping close enough that you and your allies are able to assist each other is important- never allow yourself to get isolated if you can help it.
Find your own truth, choose your enemies carefully, and never deal with a dragon.
"Canon" is what's factual to D&D lore. "Cannon" is what you're going to be shot with if you keep getting the word wrong.
They're definitely using feats if they have [feat]Defensive Duelist[/feat], which also helps offset the lower AC a bit, although as they've said they're still getting KO'd, I would second swapping the second weapon for a shield to get that +2 AC. If nothing else experiment for a session or two and see how it affects survivability. If it's still not making a big difference for some reason and you're getting KO'd enough that it's hurting your fun, might want to have a civil aside with the DM; it's possible they're overcompensating a bit on Paladin tankiness.
So you current AC strategy seems to be:
- Medium armor with a max Dex bonus (+2)
- Defensive Duelist (+4 AC with reaction)
Other strategies to consider:
1) Use a shield. The +2 AC should help. Which brings me to #2
2) Switch form a duel weapon fighting style. Your class(es) build offer you other options for your bonus action than just a secondary attack with a dagger; especially with the spell selections of a Paladin that takes a bonus action. The BA option the classes offer improve both defensive and offense when compared to a second attack with a regular dagger.
3)Has your Paladin selected a fighting style yet? The Defense option will give you a +1 to AC when wearing armor.
4) If you want to play a duel weapon fighting style, then you need the Dual Wielder Feat to get the extra +1 to AC. But I would still recommend not attacking with your BA if your Swashbuckler has their Cunning Action; then use Disengage to get avoid reciprocating attacks. Also, does your Swashbuckler have Fancy Footwork feature? Finding tactics to get away from the melee and then only engage when you are making your attacks can be a better "armor class" option than any other armor you don.
You might also want to consider taking the Tough Feat to get the extra hit points.
I'm guessing you've never actually played a Swashbuckler. Fancy Footwork basically negates the need to ever take Disengage -- you use the bonus action to attack a second target (and give you a second shot at Sneak Attack if your first attack missed) instead
EDIT: Or third target, if OP's character is at least 5th level in paladin
Active characters:
Carric Aquissar, elven wannabe artist in his deconstructionist period (Archfey warlock)
Lan Kidogo, mapach archaeologist and treasure hunter (Knowledge cleric)
Mardan Ferres, elven private investigator obsessed with that one unsolved murder (Assassin rogue)
Xhekhetiel, halfling survivor of a Betrayer Gods cult (Runechild sorcerer/fighter)
As others have suggested, the Swashbuckler works best if you stick and move rather than standing in melee and tanking. If you don't end your turn in melee range of your opponents, your AC doesn't matter so much
With that in mind, I'd look at getting spells and magic items that enhance your mobility. Paladins don't get access to longstrider, but maybe someone else in the party can cast it on you ahead of combat. (The Magic Initiate feat is always an option there too, but you might be better off taking shield in that scenario.) misty step is nice to get you out of a tight spot, but you can also just bonus action Dash with Cunning Action if you don't need that BA for another attack. As a tabaxi you already get Feline Agility, which helps greatly. There are also a couple magic item boots that would be golden for you -- the classic boots of speed, but also the new Bigby's book has wayfarer's boots which boost your base walking speed, although being able to cast expeditious retreat is pretty redundant for a rogue
Active characters:
Carric Aquissar, elven wannabe artist in his deconstructionist period (Archfey warlock)
Lan Kidogo, mapach archaeologist and treasure hunter (Knowledge cleric)
Mardan Ferres, elven private investigator obsessed with that one unsolved murder (Assassin rogue)
Xhekhetiel, halfling survivor of a Betrayer Gods cult (Runechild sorcerer/fighter)
I'm actually considering that along with also switching the rapier for a sword or plan to get a halberd/glaive using find steed and armoring it so I can be a bit more mobile either that or get a long sword and shield and get heavier armor so I can buff my AC, and since I'm gonna be dumping my remaining levels into Paladin I plan to get either Heavy Armor Master, or the Shield Master feats maybe even both...
If you're Dex-based then longswords, halberds, and glaives are all probably bad ideas. Heavy armor is likely not worth it either. Getting a shield and a steed would be good, though. The Shield Master feat generally isn't great.
What are your Strength and Dexterity scores? Also, how many levels do you have in each of your classes?
Look at what you've done. You spoiled it. You have nobody to blame but yourself. Go sit and think about your actions.
Don't be mean. Rudeness is a vicious cycle, and it has to stop somewhere. Exceptions for things that are funny.
Go to the current Competition of the Finest 'Brews! It's a cool place where cool people make cool things.
How I'm posting based on text formatting: Mod Hat Off - Mod Hat Also Off (I'm not a mod)
You might actually get more AC out of Studded Leather armor than you might out of medium armor since you get additional AC from your dex, while medium armor limits the dex that counts towards your AC. Especially if you can get your hands on a set of magic (+1 or +2) studded leather armor, which isn't a huge ask by level 9.
Another thing; swashbuckler allows you to move in and out of melee without provoking attacks of opportunity for targets you've attacked that round. A good way to stretch your HP further is to use that to full advantage. Get in melee, do damage, and then retreat back allowing you to A) if you're intending to tank, you can kite enemies away from squishier allies if you can get them to follow you, or B) take less damage by simple virtue of the fact that you're not in one place long enough to hit.
I'm currently playing a Swashbuckler Rogue/Bear Totem Barbarian and that combo of mobility and damage resistance makes it one of the more survivable characters I've ever played.
It's impossible to get a higher AC using light armor than you can get from using medium armor unless you have a way to pump your dex above 20. With studded leather, your AC caps at 17 (12+5), while medium armor also limits your AC to 17 (15+2) unless you pick up Medium Armor Mastery, which boosts it to 18 (15+3).
Find your own truth, choose your enemies carefully, and never deal with a dragon.
"Canon" is what's factual to D&D lore. "Cannon" is what you're going to be shot with if you keep getting the word wrong.
Never realized that. But still, light armor is at least equitable, suffers no stealth penalty, and if you get a decent set (+1 or +2) and combine it with the defense fighting style and/or a shield, it can still really get up there.
And studded leather is considerably easier to get than half-plate.
Find your own truth, choose your enemies carefully, and never deal with a dragon.
"Canon" is what's factual to D&D lore. "Cannon" is what you're going to be shot with if you keep getting the word wrong.
STR-12, DEX-18 Paladin-5 levels, and Rogue-4 levels
What is objective or role do you see for your character? How do they fit in with the party and their combat strategies.
With a +4 DEX, you should stick with the rapier as your primary weapon. Also, the other weapon options lack the finesse property and at 4th level your sneak attack is a 2d6.
If you are concern about being knocked out of combat you should devise strategies to increase your total hit point value.
This is called "just going full paladin." :P Seriously though, if you're looking to go sword and board or reach weapon, you need to start asking yourself what exactly you're getting out of your rogue half. Those weapons mean you give up Sneak Attack. Buffed AC means you don't really need to move and strike, negating your need for Cunning Action and Fancy Footwork. You'd also get more spell slots, better Lay on Hands, your paladin aura, etc.
To be honest, a paladin/rogue is generally just not going to be as good as a full paladin. 5e multiclassing generally results in a suboptimal character unless you're going for some very specific synergy. Not to say it can't be done or it can't be fun, but if you're tweaking your build to try to get the most out of it, the best thing you can probably do is stick to paladin only.
My homebrew subclasses (full list here)
(Artificer) Swordmage | Glasswright | (Barbarian) Path of the Savage Embrace
(Bard) College of Dance | (Fighter) Warlord | Cannoneer
(Monk) Way of the Elements | (Ranger) Blade Dancer
(Rogue) DaggerMaster | Inquisitor | (Sorcerer) Riftwalker | Spellfist
(Warlock) The Swarm
I recommend you make your Dex higher, and use your rogue abilities. The best rogue attack is the sneak attack, and if you stick to that you’ll be better defended, since it’s really hard to see someone in sneak attack mode. You can also combine your paladin abilities (any weapon enhancing spells are good.) with your sneak attack so they do even more damage. I have never played a DEX based paladin, and my only paladin I didn’t play for long with, but I have played a rogue and DMed a paladin. So definitely use your sneak attack and your swashbuckling abilities combined with your dexadin abilities.
My titles are the great Silver Dragon Lord of the Sky, Second in Command of the Dragon Cult, High Warlock of Cynophobia, High Cultist of Jeff, The Lightning Mage. I’m a ✨Chronically online teenage boy✨, and one of the most active posters on the forums (MORE THAN SALEM AND GONZALO). Always open to talk if you’d like to shoot me a PM! Please don’t hesitate to tell me I’m being a jerk or overbearing, I love helpful feedback! Love y’all!
Extended Signature!