Apparently this is a thing. As one of those filthy Jane-come-lately casual shit*****es who showed up in 5e by way of Critical Role, felt the need to ask: is this an established thing in the back canon of D&D somewhere? Or did Wizards just decide to drop a new realm on folks kinda out of the blue?
Secondary question: they mention that the Oath of Heroism (yay!) and the College of Eloquence (ugh...) are graduating from the UA Firehose of Infinite Subclasses to actual game content. Any bets on what else might fit a Greek Hero Myth book? Maybe the Twilight cleric or, much as I hate the damned thing, the Lurker warlock, given how often huge sea monsters and other awful beasts feature in Hero Myths?
It will be the second book for an MTG setting (first was Ravnica).
WotC determined there was enough interest in MTG planes as D&D settings (possibly via plane shift) to make actual products. It probably helps get fans of one product into the other too, which is a win for them financially.
I for one am really excited. Theros is one of my favorite planes (along with ixalan, ravnica, and Zendikar for those wondering).
one of those filthy Jane-come-lately casual shit*****es who showed up in 5e by way of Critical Role....
Originally I came to D&D by way of 2e, and eventually to AD&D2e. Spellfire was involved, (yes I’m old 🙄), but once WotC announced 4e I threw up my hands and swore off D&D forevers. Luckily, Critical Role was one of the influences that brought me back around to give 5e a chance. As one of those “shit*****es,” I cordially invite you to bite me.
Sposta: Nah nah. Heh, I was more poking at all those folks who believe that anyone who enjoys Critical Role and decided to try the hobby/tool/system/whatever because they were curious, and who either didn't play before 5e or didn't really get into it, are all awful filthy pointless casuals who're Dragging The Game Down(C) and should all just mass lemming off a cliff for not having gotten into the game thirty years ago like a REAL fan. Y'know, the typical gatekeeper bologne.
Everyone Else: Well...god ******* damnit. Sigh. That's a book I can scratch off my list, I suppose. Thanks for pointing out the M:tG origins. Suppose I will content myself with EGtW in a couple of weeks and wait for the content after this thing. Man, I really liked the Oath of Heroism, too...
I hate gatekeeper bologna. That’s like all the middle aged so-and-sos who used to look down on me at the comic book store when I was 6 because I was a [insert non gender specific name here]-come-lately. I was fricking 6!!! I say the more the merrier. If it weren’t for strong sales and the belief of WotC then this game would have died in 2e along with TSR. The casuals will fade away on their own. The “new-true” players will keep this game going for generations longer.
What’s wrong with MtG content? I look at it all as a “WotC shared-IP Universe” alla the MCU.
Magic doesn't really have lore. It has the thinnest possible pretext of a justification for Planeswalkers to hurl goblins at each other. It does not fit, at least for me. Ravnica as a setting is a sad caricature of an actual city because it had to so massively overemphasize its 'Guilds' in order to force strong deckbuilding themes. D&D doesn't need strong deckbuilding themes, it needs well-built settings that allow play groups to explore interesting and unique worlds and the stories to be found in them.
That and the mere existence of loxodon makes me grind my teeth in nerd fury. Oh my god the sheer, reflexive poisonous hate that boils in my blood every time I see that third-grade furry fanfiction excuse for a species...
Theros absolutely has lore. Ravnica was a setting designed from the bottom up, with mechanical concepts placed above lore ones, to have the city of guilds which are each a color combination.
Theros was designed from the top down, first with lore, and then with mechanics to reflect this lore. For example, a theme in Theros is fate, which reflects a common theme throughout greek myths. The setting's story has this theme in mind, and the mtg game itself had "scry" as a mechanic (basically a way to "see the future" by looking at the top cards of your deck) to reflect this idea. They also have "escape" (made after the story progressed with a person literally managing to get out of the physical construct that is the underworld). It was designed with story in mind, and then mechanics from that.
Like I'm all for dunking on Ravnica for making no sense as an actual story but Theros doesn't deserve that, it has perhaps the best developed and most interesting lore of any magic the gathering product, which a setting book could only develop on, instead of being restricted by to fit another game's mechanics.
They could've released a book based on Greek Hero Myths, taking their inspiration from the lore and legends everybody knows and many people love to create a new and interesting spin on the traditional Tolkienesque fantasy fare of D&D.
Or they could've released a book based on the crappy rebake of Greek Hero Myth developed for an outdated and annoying card game that doesn't care about verisimilitude for spit, sacrificing any chance to delve into the themes and depth or Hero Myth tales in exchange for a quick and dirty cross-canon cash grab aimed at depriving Magic players of money their parents refuse to allot them for more booster packs.
Guess which one they picked? As opposed to which one would've been cool?
Yurei, the fact that you consider magic outdated tells me how little you know about it.
Theros is an actual good setting. It represents the greek myths pretty well (although it is heavily inspired by them, occasionally a little too close). It is so much more open ended than ravnica was, and can have actual lore. But if you want to complain and whine about the fact that the new setting, which you were interested in before you learned its origins, then by all means, do so.
As we don’t actually know what’s in the adventure yet, I’m not going to bag on it just because they didn’t pass on their opportunity to market to a consumer base well known to enjoy being nickel and dimed to stay up to date with the available products. For all we know, they told their writers “It’s greek heroes. Just make good greek hero stories. We’re just calling it Theros, and work in these cards as NPCs where you need one.”
They might have a small starting adventure in it, like Krenko's Way, or the 4 in Explorer's Guide to Wildemount.
Gosh. . . Wizards, please stop coming out with new campaign settings and give us Xanathar's 2.0 already!
I mean, this book sounds cool, and I'm going to buy it, but I really want something else, something familiar, instead of Lionpeople and more MtG settings. I don't think Theros needs a book, it just needs a Planeshift.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Please check out my homebrew, I would appreciate feedback:
Lion people (basically STR based tabaxi) Satyrs (similar to mythological satyrs, half goat)
"merfolk" (tritons) reprints of Minotaurs and Centaurs (which actually make sense in this kind of setting)
Some "omen" table that can cryptically reveal parts of the future
"divine gifts" for character creation (probably a way to make your own demigods or something) "mythic monsters" (super boss fights that have multiple rounds, even more than legendary actions) Eloquence and Heroism
reprinted Grave and Forge (which, yes it's disappointing that they are reprints, but they objectively make sense in this setting, and should absolutely be included)
hopefully stars druid, that actually fits really well with theros lore.
Suppose I just get sick of them trying to shove all their other junk up my ass every time I turn around. if I wanted to play Magic, I'd sell a kidney and spent twenty thousand dollars on Magic cards every three weeks when they rotate the block out like everybody else. Eugh.
Oh well. Other people can by all means enjoy, suppose it's a little taste of my own medicine for being excited to see the Explorer's Guide to Wildemount. Just means that if I ever want to run a Hero Myth-style game I get to figure out how do it myself. Fair enough.
Lion people (basically STR based tabaxi) Satyrs (similar to mythological satyrs, half goat)
"merfolk" (tritons) reprints of Minotaurs and Centaurs (which actually make sense in this kind of setting)
Some "omen" table that can cryptically reveal parts of the future
"divine gifts" for character creation (probably a way to make your own demigods or something) "mythic monsters" (super boss fights that have multiple rounds, even more than legendary actions) Eloquence and Heroism
reprinted Grave and Forge (which, yes it's disappointing that they are reprints, but they objectively make sense in this setting, and should absolutely be included)
hopefully stars druid, that actually fits really well with theros lore.
Yeah, all of the stuff in it sounds nice, and the setting is interesting, but, it isn't really what I wanted.
Wizards keeps doing this. Ravnica is cool and interesting, but I don't see it as a D&D world, and don't want a whole book on it. Wildemount sounds awesome, and has some interesting monsters and subclasses in it, but, it isn't what I wanted, Theros sounds cool, and I LOVE GREEK MYTHOLOGY!
But, this isn't greek mythology. It is themed around that, has a similar design, but it is different. I would've preferred something else. I love greek myth, but this is different.
I honestly would've preferred an ancient Greece on Earth campaign setting to this. Stat out Heracles, and Perseus, and The Medusa, and the Hundred-Headed Ones, and all of those myths that a lot of people grew up with, and I want that, not this.
Magic: the Gathering is a fun game, and I occasionally play it, but I've never been super excited about the planes or the lore and story of the game. It is the same problem I have with the Forgotten Realms, it just has too much information to take in. I'd prefer something I know, and am familiar with, a real Greek Mythology setting.
Just my thoughts. I understand if you disagree with me. Still gonna buy the book, (grumble, grumble, bah humbug!) because I need to own all the 5e books.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Please check out my homebrew, I would appreciate feedback:
First of all: Theros, not Thanos. No meming. Stoppit.
Second of all: https://www.dndbeyond.com/marketplace/source/mythic-odysseys-of-theros
Apparently this is a thing. As one of those filthy Jane-come-lately casual shit*****es who showed up in 5e by way of Critical Role, felt the need to ask: is this an established thing in the back canon of D&D somewhere? Or did Wizards just decide to drop a new realm on folks kinda out of the blue?
Secondary question: they mention that the Oath of Heroism (yay!) and the College of Eloquence (ugh...) are graduating from the UA Firehose of Infinite Subclasses to actual game content. Any bets on what else might fit a Greek Hero Myth book? Maybe the Twilight cleric or, much as I hate the damned thing, the Lurker warlock, given how often huge sea monsters and other awful beasts feature in Hero Myths?
Please do not contact or message me.
This is not a new realm. This is a Magic: The Gathering world, similar to Ravnica, except Greek/Roman themed.
It will be the second book for an MTG setting (first was Ravnica).
WotC determined there was enough interest in MTG planes as D&D settings (possibly via plane shift) to make actual products. It probably helps get fans of one product into the other too, which is a win for them financially.
I for one am really excited. Theros is one of my favorite planes (along with ixalan, ravnica, and Zendikar for those wondering).
Originally I came to D&D by way of 2e, and eventually to AD&D2e. Spellfire was involved, (yes I’m old 🙄), but once WotC announced 4e I threw up my hands and swore off D&D forevers. Luckily, Critical Role was one of the influences that brought me back around to give 5e a chance. As one of those “shit*****es,” I cordially invite you to bite me.
Creating Epic Boons on DDB
DDB Buyers' Guide
Hardcovers, DDB & You
Content Troubleshooting
Sposta: Nah nah. Heh, I was more poking at all those folks who believe that anyone who enjoys Critical Role and decided to try the hobby/tool/system/whatever because they were curious, and who either didn't play before 5e or didn't really get into it, are all awful filthy pointless casuals who're Dragging The Game Down(C) and should all just mass lemming off a cliff for not having gotten into the game thirty years ago like a REAL fan. Y'know, the typical gatekeeper bologne.
Everyone Else: Well...god ******* damnit. Sigh. That's a book I can scratch off my list, I suppose. Thanks for pointing out the M:tG origins. Suppose I will content myself with EGtW in a couple of weeks and wait for the content after this thing. Man, I really liked the Oath of Heroism, too...
Please do not contact or message me.
I hate gatekeeper bologna. That’s like all the middle aged so-and-sos who used to look down on me at the comic book store when I was 6 because I was a [insert non gender specific name here]-come-lately. I was fricking 6!!! I say the more the merrier. If it weren’t for strong sales and the belief of WotC then this game would have died in 2e along with TSR. The casuals will fade away on their own. The “new-true” players will keep this game going for generations longer.
What’s wrong with MtG content? I look at it all as a “WotC shared-IP Universe” alla the MCU.
Creating Epic Boons on DDB
DDB Buyers' Guide
Hardcovers, DDB & You
Content Troubleshooting
Magic doesn't really have lore. It has the thinnest possible pretext of a justification for Planeswalkers to hurl goblins at each other. It does not fit, at least for me. Ravnica as a setting is a sad caricature of an actual city because it had to so massively overemphasize its 'Guilds' in order to force strong deckbuilding themes. D&D doesn't need strong deckbuilding themes, it needs well-built settings that allow play groups to explore interesting and unique worlds and the stories to be found in them.
That and the mere existence of loxodon makes me grind my teeth in nerd fury. Oh my god the sheer, reflexive poisonous hate that boils in my blood every time I see that third-grade furry fanfiction excuse for a species...
Please do not contact or message me.
Theros absolutely has lore.
Ravnica was a setting designed from the bottom up, with mechanical concepts placed above lore ones, to have the city of guilds which are each a color combination.
Theros was designed from the top down, first with lore, and then with mechanics to reflect this lore. For example, a theme in Theros is fate, which reflects a common theme throughout greek myths. The setting's story has this theme in mind, and the mtg game itself had "scry" as a mechanic (basically a way to "see the future" by looking at the top cards of your deck) to reflect this idea. They also have "escape" (made after the story progressed with a person literally managing to get out of the physical construct that is the underworld). It was designed with story in mind, and then mechanics from that.
Like I'm all for dunking on Ravnica for making no sense as an actual story but Theros doesn't deserve that, it has perhaps the best developed and most interesting lore of any magic the gathering product, which a setting book could only develop on, instead of being restricted by to fit another game's mechanics.
Here's the thing, Bunsen.
They could've released a book based on Greek Hero Myths, taking their inspiration from the lore and legends everybody knows and many people love to create a new and interesting spin on the traditional Tolkienesque fantasy fare of D&D.
Or they could've released a book based on the crappy rebake of Greek Hero Myth developed for an outdated and annoying card game that doesn't care about verisimilitude for spit, sacrificing any chance to delve into the themes and depth or Hero Myth tales in exchange for a quick and dirty cross-canon cash grab aimed at depriving Magic players of money their parents refuse to allot them for more booster packs.
Guess which one they picked? As opposed to which one would've been cool?
Please do not contact or message me.
The picked the one they own the intellectual property rights to like any company.
And there is lore for why the planes walkers do what they do, you just gotta go all the way back to MtG Revised edition to find it.
Creating Epic Boons on DDB
DDB Buyers' Guide
Hardcovers, DDB & You
Content Troubleshooting
Yurei, the fact that you consider magic outdated tells me how little you know about it.
Theros is an actual good setting. It represents the greek myths pretty well (although it is heavily inspired by them, occasionally a little too close). It is so much more open ended than ravnica was, and can have actual lore.
But if you want to complain and whine about the fact that the new setting, which you were interested in before you learned its origins, then by all means, do so.
Because guess what.
I can use adjectives to make my point seem strong too.
As we don’t actually know what’s in the adventure yet, I’m not going to bag on it just because they didn’t pass on their opportunity to market to a consumer base well known to enjoy being nickel and dimed to stay up to date with the available products. For all we know, they told their writers “It’s greek heroes. Just make good greek hero stories. We’re just calling it Theros, and work in these cards as NPCs where you need one.”
It's not an adventure, it's a setting.
They might have a small starting adventure in it, like Krenko's Way, or the 4 in Explorer's Guide to Wildemount.
Gosh. . . Wizards, please stop coming out with new campaign settings and give us Xanathar's 2.0 already!
I mean, this book sounds cool, and I'm going to buy it, but I really want something else, something familiar, instead of Lionpeople and more MtG settings. I don't think Theros needs a book, it just needs a Planeshift.
Please check out my homebrew, I would appreciate feedback:
Spells, Monsters, Subclasses, Races, Arcknight Class, Occultist Class, World, Enigmatic Esoterica forms
Ok so this book has:
Lion people (basically STR based tabaxi)
Satyrs (similar to mythological satyrs, half goat)
"merfolk" (tritons)
reprints of Minotaurs and Centaurs (which actually make sense in this kind of setting)
Some "omen" table that can cryptically reveal parts of the future
"divine gifts" for character creation (probably a way to make your own demigods or something)
"mythic monsters" (super boss fights that have multiple rounds, even more than legendary actions)
Eloquence and Heroism
reprinted Grave and Forge (which, yes it's disappointing that they are reprints, but they objectively make sense in this setting, and should absolutely be included)
hopefully stars druid, that actually fits really well with theros lore.
Suppose I just get sick of them trying to shove all their other junk up my ass every time I turn around. if I wanted to play Magic, I'd sell a kidney and spent twenty thousand dollars on Magic cards every three weeks when they rotate the block out like everybody else. Eugh.
Oh well. Other people can by all means enjoy, suppose it's a little taste of my own medicine for being excited to see the Explorer's Guide to Wildemount. Just means that if I ever want to run a Hero Myth-style game I get to figure out how do it myself. Fair enough.
Please do not contact or message me.
Yeah, all of the stuff in it sounds nice, and the setting is interesting, but, it isn't really what I wanted.
Wizards keeps doing this. Ravnica is cool and interesting, but I don't see it as a D&D world, and don't want a whole book on it. Wildemount sounds awesome, and has some interesting monsters and subclasses in it, but, it isn't what I wanted, Theros sounds cool, and I LOVE GREEK MYTHOLOGY!
But, this isn't greek mythology. It is themed around that, has a similar design, but it is different. I would've preferred something else. I love greek myth, but this is different.
I honestly would've preferred an ancient Greece on Earth campaign setting to this. Stat out Heracles, and Perseus, and The Medusa, and the Hundred-Headed Ones, and all of those myths that a lot of people grew up with, and I want that, not this.
Magic: the Gathering is a fun game, and I occasionally play it, but I've never been super excited about the planes or the lore and story of the game. It is the same problem I have with the Forgotten Realms, it just has too much information to take in. I'd prefer something I know, and am familiar with, a real Greek Mythology setting.
Just my thoughts. I understand if you disagree with me. Still gonna buy the book, (grumble, grumble, bah humbug!) because I need to own all the 5e books.
Please check out my homebrew, I would appreciate feedback:
Spells, Monsters, Subclasses, Races, Arcknight Class, Occultist Class, World, Enigmatic Esoterica forms
Ancient Greece on Earth?
What?
Like, this is a "real greek mythology setting".
Yes, the sea god is female, a mermaid, and weilds a bident, not a trident (god is that a stupid word, bident) but it is still similar to posiden