I recently spun up a lvv 7 Hadozee character who has the ability to glide. Our DM allowed me to grab a +1 and an uncommon item. I wanted something for mobility but wanted to utilize my glid ability so instead of opting for Winged Bootswhich is uncommon and allows you to fly outright, I opted for a Ring of Water Walking. So the though I had was that I wanted to create some sort of basic leather soles that I could store some water in on my feet and then I could effectively water bend/run up stairs in mid air and then utilize my Hadozee glide when I want. My dm has already stated he is fine with my running on water stored inside my boots and I worked with my groups artificer to create the soles that have water stored in them that I can now run up and glide so all good there.
My question for you DMs is combat related. Since I need to effectively maintain motion to continue to run up the liquifying and then solidifying steps in air, how would you treat this during combat? Would you have your player insta fall from whatever height they are at to the ground simply to begin there assent up there stairs again next turn? Or would you say they are simply stuck in that x,y,z cordinate unless acted upon by an outside force until they begin the next turn?
The reason this is so important to me is we have a White Dragon we may be forced to fight and almost the whole team is melee and the only vertical mobility we have is a fairy fighter. So if I will also be stuck to a maximum height of my movement each turn only to drop and force use of my reaction to stop fall damage, I will be kicking myself for not taking Winged Boots simply because I wanted some flavor in my vertical movement.
Thanks for your input and I'm interested to see what you have to say.
Counter-concept: another character uses a firehose/Decanter of Endless Water aimed at the dragon, and you run up the water spray.
I'm not sure the physics will work in your favor for the water-soles trick, or rather, the water is going to fall immediately at the same rate you fall, unless it's under high pressure.
The soles also feel a bit like having a magic item that casts Shape Water 5+ times in a row during 1 turn...
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Helpful rewriter of Japanese->English translation and delver into software codebases (she/e/they)
Thanks for the reply naruhoodie. The soles portion has already been sorted out with my dm and for rule of cool he was ok with it. Combat is the only portion we are trying to figure out. Going with accepting the running on water not connected to water connected to the ground portion of this bit, how would you treat the physics of ending your turn while on one of those airborn pieces of water?
You'd be able to stay standing on the water since it's effectively "solid" for you, but unless something extra is keeping that water in place for a round, both it and you are going to fall.
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Helpful rewriter of Japanese->English translation and delver into software codebases (she/e/they)
My question for you DMs is combat related. Since I need to effectively maintain motion to continue to run up the liquifying and then solidifying steps in air, how would you treat this during combat?
This would be my ruling it would result in a fall.
I must say though at my table this whole water walking on water-filled leather soles would not work as such thing would prevent anyone from sinking in water already.
The ring lets you treat liquid surfaces as if they are solid, but it doesn't actually alter those surfaces.
But, since your DM has already agreed to you using the boots as virtual stairs, I agree with Plaguescarred, you would fall as soon as you stopped moving. Further, because the boots allow virtual stairs, I would use the diagonal rules for movement (first space = 5 feet, second = 10 feet, so 15 feet movement per 2 spaces).
How does your DM rule about the Glide? That it consumes movement for the horizontal travel, or that it doesn't?
Glide speed is double walk speed and were using that 5 foot horizontal for each 1 foot vertical. So i can effectively run up 10 feet and then use my remaining 20 walk ft to glide 40.
What I don't understand is why does my character have to fall? My understanding of how combat works is that each round is 6 seconds, and each person is acting continuously in that 6 seconds. So, no one ever really stops moving, they just stop moving because there is no way to effectively move every single piece at the same time in a way that would work for the game. But people don't FREEZE moving for 6 seconds while the next person takes there turn.
By that logic, you would think that creatures with wings would all fall from the sky after their turns since there wings are no longer moving. Only magical flight that doesn't require motion could possible stay aloft.
My question for you DMs is combat related. Since I need to effectively maintain motion to continue to run up the liquifying and then solidifying steps in air, how would you treat this during combat?
This would be my ruling it would result in a fall.
I must say though at my table this whole water walking on water-filled leather soles would not work as such thing would prevent anyone from sinking in water already.
What do you mean by that last bit Plaguescarred about not sinking in water already? Because the not skinging is exactly what the ring does and allows you to walk on water as though it were solid.
My question for you DMs is combat related. Since I need to effectively maintain motion to continue to run up the liquifying and then solidifying steps in air, how would you treat this during combat?
This would be my ruling it would result in a fall.
I must say though at my table this whole water walking on water-filled leather soles would not work as such thing would prevent anyone from sinking in water already.
What do you mean by that last bit Plaguescarred about not sinking in water already? Because the not skinging is exactly what the ring does and allows you to walk on water as though it were solid.
May be i misunderstood what is going on, but if you fill soles with water and put it in your boots, will you sink in water? If the answer is no, then water walking wouldn't come into effect. In other words, whatever contain waters will effectively prevent you from directly walk on it. And if you have direct access to such water in the soles, all it will do is allow you to prevent from sinking in it. It won't let you walk in the air or anything.
The movement during your turn vs the round thing is a little odd, as flying creatures that lack the hover trait are still airborne between turns (assuming not knocked prone), but iirc jumps must be completed on the creature's turn (so not airborne at end of turn if just jumping).
As to why your character has to fall, the ring doesn't actually alter the water, so the water would naturally fall, and you with it. By allowing the boots to work, your DM is allowing the water itself to be altered, otherwise you would just have platform shoes. Given that, your DM could rule that the water stays suspended until you choose otherwise or are knocked prone, basically using the Hover trait.
If walking on water is less critical to you than going vertical to use your Glide trait, talk to your DM about the Ring of Jumping (Uncommon, requires attunement). It lets you cast the Jump spell on yourself at will with a bonus action, granting 3x jump distance. This would let you High Jump 9 feet + 3x Strength modifier if you move 10 feet first (half as high without the 10 feet); given your DM's allowance, you could probably skip the attunement and the 10 foot requirement, basically letting you High Jump 9 feet using a bonus action, up to as high as 36 feet (depending on Strength score).
So, basically, your DM could decide the water can Hover, letting you stay in mid-air; or they could say it is temporary enough that you fall when your turn is over. If they decide on the latter, and you are more interested in getting altitude so you can glide, you might consider talking with them about the Ring of Jumping instead, likely with some tweaks.
Glide speed is double walk speed and were using that 5 foot horizontal for each 1 foot vertical. So i can effectively run up 10 feet and then use my remaining 20 walk ft to glide 40.
What I don't understand is why does my character have to fall? My understanding of how combat works is that each round is 6 seconds, and each person is acting continuously in that 6 seconds. So, no one ever really stops moving, they just stop moving because there is no way to effectively move every single piece at the same time in a way that would work for the game. But people don't FREEZE moving for 6 seconds while the next person takes there turn.
By that logic, you would think that creatures with wings would all fall from the sky after their turns since there wings are no longer moving. Only magical flight that doesn't require motion could possible stay aloft.
Your character would fall because i use the rule that you immediately drop the entire distance when you fall. Creature that can glide but don't otherwise fly aren't exempted from this.
FWIW, your ring allows you to walk on water, but does not allow the water that you walk on to stay suspended in mid air. Nowhere in Ring of Water Walking is it expressed that it will allow this. It allows you to treat that surface as if it were solid. If that surface were hurtling towards the center of the celestial body that you are currently a resident of while you were trying to walk on it, you would ride that elevator to the ground floor. And, possibly take a maximum of 20d6 falling damage once you and said celestial body were reunited.
Using our-world physics to try to mental-judo this idea to the mat isn't going to work because it's not being done in our world. This isn't a simulation of how our physics works because we don't have magic, or dragons or make-believe elves and fairies. We as DMs just need to make it believable. We have to create and maintain verisimilitude. For some this little trick breaks that belief and ruins fun and immersion.
Aside from that, I'm not sure why you didn't allow the DM that you have the opportunity to field this question? Your DM's ruling *might* be filed under "Rule of Cool", but that is a subjective opinion that isn't shared by every DM or player out there. Shenanigans of this sort are frequently what fuel the follow on discussions from frustrated DMs about how "Game Breaking" a magic item is, or "how do I keep my players' characters from ruining my campaign?"
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“Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry, and narrow-mindedness, and many of our people need it sorely on these accounts. Broad, wholesome, charitable views of men and things cannot be acquired by vegetating in one little corner of the earth all one's lifetime.” - Mark Twain - Innocents Abroad
I have a houserule in place that basically promotes the flow of combat, so things like this will be dealt with that you would not fall, provided you keep going. So if you finish your turn running, you're still "running" during all subsequent turns (paralysis type effects aside). If the first thing you do in your next turn is stop running, then you fall (basically the same effect as most are suggesting, but delayed) and if you decide to keep running, then you will stay airborne.
I also use this for jumps which are too far to make in one turn - you can end the turn airborne, and it has a simple effect - your turn starts with the landing, no readied actions (unless they readied them last turn) or anything. So if you jump and someone runs to intercept, then you're going to crash into them. If you run and jump and they suspect you'll fall short, they can do anything they like in their turns to try and help you. I don't like dividing the game into exact 6-second parcels, I like to leave some things flowing in between. Ultimately, if you were going to run up and hit them, you can instead run up and ready your action to hit them when they land - there's no real loss there!
I hope the DM is indulging the other players as much as they are your contortion of relatively mundane magic for the sake of maximizing a modest racial trait.
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Jander Sunstar is the thinking person's Drizzt, fight me.
ThorukDuckSlayer thank you for that refreshing view. Your table sounds like a good time. I like that you give your players options but also allow them the incur the repercussions of their actions. Seems fair and fun.
Kaavel the reason I ran it by you guys is simply for a sake of discussion. The next time i met with my group and had a chance to speak with him, he instantly green lit it because he understood I could have blandly chosen Winged Boots but instead incorporated other players to help create a fun item that was not game breaking, albeit not RAW.
This was suppose to be fun and simply a discussion around an idea. Instead, a lot of the responses here just felt like they wanted to explain to me how my idea wasn't RAW and ignore my original outline in the question. I hope you all work worth your players to encourage creativity and fun instead of trying adhere to RAW all the time. Cause after all, that's why we're here right?
I'm sorry to hear that you are unhappy with some of the rulings that you received. I hope that you learn to accept others opinions better when you are the one seeking differing perspectives. Pushing back on answers that don't support your perspective isn't being an objective seeker of information. It's more akin to someone seeking to strengthen their bias.
Enjoy your games and your friends. Best of fun to you!
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“Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry, and narrow-mindedness, and many of our people need it sorely on these accounts. Broad, wholesome, charitable views of men and things cannot be acquired by vegetating in one little corner of the earth all one's lifetime.” - Mark Twain - Innocents Abroad
Are we not going to talk about the fact that this person designed a character that will make squishing noises EVERYWHERE he walks?
As a DM I'd probably give you disadvantage on stealth checks, and maybe hurt your charisma because everyone you walk up to will think you walked out of a puddle or something...
I would add that this PC would be vulnerable to cold damage from level spells, because having your feet in water means that frostbite is that much more likely to set in.
The reason this is so important to me is we have a White Dragon we may be forced to fight and almost the whole team is melee and the only vertical mobility we have is a fairy fighter. So if I will also be stuck to a maximum height of my movement each turn only to drop and force use of my reaction to stop fall damage, I will be kicking myself for not taking Winged Boots simply because I wanted some flavor in my vertical movement.
I'm late to this discussion, but I think instead of trying to figure out how you can leave the rest of the team behind go up to melee the dragon, you should be asking how you can bring the dragon down to your party. Being up in the dragon's face without support is just going to get you killed, and it's not fun for the other players to just stand by helplessly and watch it happen.
So I think even if your DM is okay with your boots basically being better versions of the item you chose not to take, you have not really solved the problem you need to solve.
I recently spun up a lvv 7 Hadozee character who has the ability to glide. Our DM allowed me to grab a +1 and an uncommon item. I wanted something for mobility but wanted to utilize my glid ability so instead of opting for Winged Boots which is uncommon and allows you to fly outright, I opted for a Ring of Water Walking. So the though I had was that I wanted to create some sort of basic leather soles that I could store some water in on my feet and then I could effectively water bend/run up stairs in mid air and then utilize my Hadozee glide when I want.
My dm has already stated he is fine with my running on water stored inside my boots and I worked with my groups artificer to create the soles that have water stored in them that I can now run up and glide so all good there.
My question for you DMs is combat related. Since I need to effectively maintain motion to continue to run up the liquifying and then solidifying steps in air, how would you treat this during combat? Would you have your player insta fall from whatever height they are at to the ground simply to begin there assent up there stairs again next turn? Or would you say they are simply stuck in that x,y,z cordinate unless acted upon by an outside force until they begin the next turn?
The reason this is so important to me is we have a White Dragon we may be forced to fight and almost the whole team is melee and the only vertical mobility we have is a fairy fighter. So if I will also be stuck to a maximum height of my movement each turn only to drop and force use of my reaction to stop fall damage, I will be kicking myself for not taking Winged Boots simply because I wanted some flavor in my vertical movement.
Thanks for your input and I'm interested to see what you have to say.
Counter-concept: another character uses a firehose/Decanter of Endless Water aimed at the dragon, and you run up the water spray.
I'm not sure the physics will work in your favor for the water-soles trick, or rather, the water is going to fall immediately at the same rate you fall, unless it's under high pressure.
The soles also feel a bit like having a magic item that casts Shape Water 5+ times in a row during 1 turn...
Helpful rewriter of Japanese->English translation and delver into software codebases (she/e/they)
Thanks for the reply naruhoodie. The soles portion has already been sorted out with my dm and for rule of cool he was ok with it. Combat is the only portion we are trying to figure out. Going with accepting the running on water not connected to water connected to the ground portion of this bit, how would you treat the physics of ending your turn while on one of those airborn pieces of water?
You'd be able to stay standing on the water since it's effectively "solid" for you, but unless something extra is keeping that water in place for a round, both it and you are going to fall.
Helpful rewriter of Japanese->English translation and delver into software codebases (she/e/they)
This would be my ruling it would result in a fall.
I must say though at my table this whole water walking on water-filled leather soles would not work as such thing would prevent anyone from sinking in water already.
The ring lets you treat liquid surfaces as if they are solid, but it doesn't actually alter those surfaces.
But, since your DM has already agreed to you using the boots as virtual stairs, I agree with Plaguescarred, you would fall as soon as you stopped moving. Further, because the boots allow virtual stairs, I would use the diagonal rules for movement (first space = 5 feet, second = 10 feet, so 15 feet movement per 2 spaces).
How does your DM rule about the Glide? That it consumes movement for the horizontal travel, or that it doesn't?
Glide speed is double walk speed and were using that 5 foot horizontal for each 1 foot vertical. So i can effectively run up 10 feet and then use my remaining 20 walk ft to glide 40.
What I don't understand is why does my character have to fall? My understanding of how combat works is that each round is 6 seconds, and each person is acting continuously in that 6 seconds. So, no one ever really stops moving, they just stop moving because there is no way to effectively move every single piece at the same time in a way that would work for the game. But people don't FREEZE moving for 6 seconds while the next person takes there turn.
By that logic, you would think that creatures with wings would all fall from the sky after their turns since there wings are no longer moving. Only magical flight that doesn't require motion could possible stay aloft.
What do you mean by that last bit Plaguescarred about not sinking in water already? Because the not skinging is exactly what the ring does and allows you to walk on water as though it were solid.
May be i misunderstood what is going on, but if you fill soles with water and put it in your boots, will you sink in water? If the answer is no, then water walking wouldn't come into effect. In other words, whatever contain waters will effectively prevent you from directly walk on it. And if you have direct access to such water in the soles, all it will do is allow you to prevent from sinking in it. It won't let you walk in the air or anything.
The movement during your turn vs the round thing is a little odd, as flying creatures that lack the hover trait are still airborne between turns (assuming not knocked prone), but iirc jumps must be completed on the creature's turn (so not airborne at end of turn if just jumping).
As to why your character has to fall, the ring doesn't actually alter the water, so the water would naturally fall, and you with it. By allowing the boots to work, your DM is allowing the water itself to be altered, otherwise you would just have platform shoes. Given that, your DM could rule that the water stays suspended until you choose otherwise or are knocked prone, basically using the Hover trait.
If walking on water is less critical to you than going vertical to use your Glide trait, talk to your DM about the Ring of Jumping (Uncommon, requires attunement). It lets you cast the Jump spell on yourself at will with a bonus action, granting 3x jump distance. This would let you High Jump 9 feet + 3x Strength modifier if you move 10 feet first (half as high without the 10 feet); given your DM's allowance, you could probably skip the attunement and the 10 foot requirement, basically letting you High Jump 9 feet using a bonus action, up to as high as 36 feet (depending on Strength score).
So, basically, your DM could decide the water can Hover, letting you stay in mid-air; or they could say it is temporary enough that you fall when your turn is over. If they decide on the latter, and you are more interested in getting altitude so you can glide, you might consider talking with them about the Ring of Jumping instead, likely with some tweaks.
Your character would fall because i use the rule that you immediately drop the entire distance when you fall. Creature that can glide but don't otherwise fly aren't exempted from this.
FWIW, your ring allows you to walk on water, but does not allow the water that you walk on to stay suspended in mid air. Nowhere in Ring of Water Walking is it expressed that it will allow this. It allows you to treat that surface as if it were solid. If that surface were hurtling towards the center of the celestial body that you are currently a resident of while you were trying to walk on it, you would ride that elevator to the ground floor. And, possibly take a maximum of 20d6 falling damage once you and said celestial body were reunited.
Using our-world physics to try to mental-judo this idea to the mat isn't going to work because it's not being done in our world. This isn't a simulation of how our physics works because we don't have magic, or dragons or make-believe elves and fairies. We as DMs just need to make it believable. We have to create and maintain verisimilitude. For some this little trick breaks that belief and ruins fun and immersion.
Aside from that, I'm not sure why you didn't allow the DM that you have the opportunity to field this question? Your DM's ruling *might* be filed under "Rule of Cool", but that is a subjective opinion that isn't shared by every DM or player out there. Shenanigans of this sort are frequently what fuel the follow on discussions from frustrated DMs about how "Game Breaking" a magic item is, or "how do I keep my players' characters from ruining my campaign?"
“Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry, and narrow-mindedness, and many of our people need it sorely on these accounts. Broad, wholesome, charitable views of men and things cannot be acquired by vegetating in one little corner of the earth all one's lifetime.” - Mark Twain - Innocents Abroad
I have a houserule in place that basically promotes the flow of combat, so things like this will be dealt with that you would not fall, provided you keep going. So if you finish your turn running, you're still "running" during all subsequent turns (paralysis type effects aside). If the first thing you do in your next turn is stop running, then you fall (basically the same effect as most are suggesting, but delayed) and if you decide to keep running, then you will stay airborne.
I also use this for jumps which are too far to make in one turn - you can end the turn airborne, and it has a simple effect - your turn starts with the landing, no readied actions (unless they readied them last turn) or anything. So if you jump and someone runs to intercept, then you're going to crash into them. If you run and jump and they suspect you'll fall short, they can do anything they like in their turns to try and help you. I don't like dividing the game into exact 6-second parcels, I like to leave some things flowing in between. Ultimately, if you were going to run up and hit them, you can instead run up and ready your action to hit them when they land - there's no real loss there!
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I hope the DM is indulging the other players as much as they are your contortion of relatively mundane magic for the sake of maximizing a modest racial trait.
Jander Sunstar is the thinking person's Drizzt, fight me.
ThorukDuckSlayer thank you for that refreshing view. Your table sounds like a good time. I like that you give your players options but also allow them the incur the repercussions of their actions. Seems fair and fun.
Kaavel the reason I ran it by you guys is simply for a sake of discussion. The next time i met with my group and had a chance to speak with him, he instantly green lit it because he understood I could have blandly chosen Winged Boots but instead incorporated other players to help create a fun item that was not game breaking, albeit not RAW.
This was suppose to be fun and simply a discussion around an idea. Instead, a lot of the responses here just felt like they wanted to explain to me how my idea wasn't RAW and ignore my original outline in the question. I hope you all work worth your players to encourage creativity and fun instead of trying adhere to RAW all the time. Cause after all, that's why we're here right?
You asked other DMs how they would play the ring of water walking and treat this during combat. Different DMs will have different rulings.
How it works at your table is what's most important so best of fun with your combo!
I'm sorry to hear that you are unhappy with some of the rulings that you received. I hope that you learn to accept others opinions better when you are the one seeking differing perspectives. Pushing back on answers that don't support your perspective isn't being an objective seeker of information. It's more akin to someone seeking to strengthen their bias.
Enjoy your games and your friends. Best of fun to you!
“Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry, and narrow-mindedness, and many of our people need it sorely on these accounts. Broad, wholesome, charitable views of men and things cannot be acquired by vegetating in one little corner of the earth all one's lifetime.” - Mark Twain - Innocents Abroad
Are we not going to talk about the fact that this person designed a character that will make squishing noises EVERYWHERE he walks?
As a DM I'd probably give you disadvantage on stealth checks, and maybe hurt your charisma because everyone you walk up to will think you walked out of a puddle or something...
I would add that this PC would be vulnerable to cold damage from level spells, because having your feet in water means that frostbite is that much more likely to set in.
I'm late to this discussion, but I think instead of trying to figure out how you can leave the rest of the team behind go up to melee the dragon, you should be asking how you can bring the dragon down to your party. Being up in the dragon's face without support is just going to get you killed, and it's not fun for the other players to just stand by helplessly and watch it happen.
So I think even if your DM is okay with your boots basically being better versions of the item you chose not to take, you have not really solved the problem you need to solve.
My homebrew subclasses (full list here)
(Artificer) Swordmage | Glasswright | (Barbarian) Path of the Savage Embrace
(Bard) College of Dance | (Fighter) Warlord | Cannoneer
(Monk) Way of the Elements | (Ranger) Blade Dancer
(Rogue) DaggerMaster | Inquisitor | (Sorcerer) Riftwalker | Spellfist
(Warlock) The Swarm