So, have you ever been put in a high magic setting where you are fighting a lot of mages and you are a mage yourself? You know concentration spells can be strong and most take magic missile to interrupt concentration. But then they can also know the Shield spell. Well, won't mages just come up with a spell to fight mages then? Something constant to make concentrating hard? Thus my spell.
Wait, so a single mage gets hit by A CANTRIP and permanently has disadvantage on con saves unless targeted with dispel magic or ends his spell, which takes an action for the mage to cast to end the effect, and a 3rd level slot? Bruh, I'd put that at a high level spell.
An easy fix would be to put the disadvantage on con saves to be only concentration saves, as well as only have the disadvantage last until the start of the caster's next turn. Then, I'd say it's balanced.
Wait, so a single mage gets hit by A CANTRIP and permanently has disadvantage on con saves unless targeted with dispel magic or ends his spell, which takes an action for the mage to cast to end the effect, and a 3rd level slot? Bruh, I'd put that at a high level spell.
An easy fix would be to put the disadvantage on con saves to be only concentration saves, as well as only have the disadvantage last until the start of the caster's next turn. Then, I'd say it's balanced.
I think you are misunderstanding something here. Let us go over the wording and the Rules for concentration.
Namely the part that says this: Taking damage.Whenever you take damage while you are concentrating on a spell, you must make a Constitution saving throw to maintain your concentration. The DC equals 10 or half the damage you take, whichever number is higher. If you take damage from multiple sources, such as an arrow and a dragon's breath, you make a separate saving throw for each source of damage.
And the wording of Distracting Bolt saying this: Two intertwined bolts of energy shoot from you hand. Make a ranged spell attack against the target. On a hit, the target takes 2d4 lightning damage and if the target is concentrating (on a spell or ability), it makes it's Constitution Saving Throw with disadvantage.
So if someone is concentrating on a spell and gets hit by this, the CON save they HAVE to make right then gets the Disadvantage. I'm not sure how you are reading it but that is how the spell is worded to work with the rules. Get hit with the spell and if concentrating -> Disadvantage on that CON save to keep concentration.
It's a very interesting spell, but too strong for me. 2d4 lightning damage is already strong damage for a cantrip (5 on average, and lightning which is less resisted than fire and the scaling is very strong) and the rider is very potent against spellcasters. It's still an interesting effect, but to keep it balanced, I would reduce the damage to 1d6.
Fire Bolt - Has 120 Range, hits for 1d10 (5.5 adv dmg, 11 at 5th level, 16.5 at 11th level, 22 at 17th level), sets things on fire Ray of Frost - Has 60 Range, hits for 1d8 (4.5 adv dmg, 9 at 5th level, 13.5 at 11th level, 18 at 17th level), takes away 10 movement form target Distracting Bolt - Has 90 Range, hits for 2d4 (5 adv dmg, 10 at 5th level, 15 at 11th level, 20 at 17th level ), only does extra stuff to creatures that are Concentrating. (Fire bolt still has higher adv damage at all levels of play)
Lightning damage may be resisted less by some monsters but it has less range and average damage than a fire bolt. The kicker is instead of setting things on fire, you have an easier time of breaking concentration. But most creatures are not Concentration spell casters from what I've seen. Only good in some cases.
Also, I tend to follow this for spell creation and lower damage based on effect done if it is similar to an existing spell or does a lot on its own. https://www.dndbeyond.com/sources/dmg/dungeon-masters-workshop#SpellDamage Namely this part: You can use different damage dice than the ones in the table, provided that the average result is about the same. Doing so can add a little variety to the spell. For example, you could change a cantrip’s damage from 1d10 (average 5.5) to 2d4 (average 5), reducing the maximum damage and making an average result more likely.
Wait, so a single mage gets hit by A CANTRIP and permanently has disadvantage on con saves unless targeted with dispel magic or ends his spell, which takes an action for the mage to cast to end the effect, and a 3rd level slot? Bruh, I'd put that at a high level spell.
An easy fix would be to put the disadvantage on con saves to be only concentration saves, as well as only have the disadvantage last until the start of the caster's next turn. Then, I'd say it's balanced.
Personally I'm in agreement with Lyxen here. Disadvantage to their concentration check is a powerful effect to force upon an enemy caster. With 1d6 it's still a DC 10 con save, and most mages don't have high con and less have con save proficiency, so it's usually, +2 at most. That means to succeed they need to roll an 8 or higher, which is 60% chance to do so - which means 2/5 chance of failure. That alone can be hefty, and now you're adding disadvantage. That's quite massive.
At 4d6 max damage this is a minimum DC 10 to max of DC 12, with disadvantage against mages most of whom have only +2 or +3 to con. So this is already going a long way with a decent chance to break concentration which you get to do every round.
With your d10s, this is even further ramped up. 4d10 is up to 40, which would be DC 20 in and of itself. And if you crit with max damage that's DC 40 with disadvantage.
It's quite easy to get bonus to this, for instance Evokers can add +Int, which will quickly be a +5 to damage. 4d10+5 is an average of 27, which is DC 13 with disadvantage. On a crit that's DC 26 with disadvantage.
As a cantrip.
Normally spells that affect concentration are 3rd level and higher (Sleet Storm, Synaptic Static) so if I was being completely honest - I wouldn't have this do damage at all. I would have it be just disadvantage to the next concentration check it makes before the end of your next turn.
So, to be fair, 1d6 > 4d6, is plenty and more than what I would allow at my table.
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I’m in agreement with Cyb3r & co. It’s too much damage to also have the rider on top. According to the DMG section on creating new spells, 2d4 is considered roughly on par with 1d10, meaning this spell has the same average damage as Fire Bolt (the most damaging Wiz Cantrip in 5e) but with a less resisted damage type and a more impactful rider than Vicious Mockery has. 1d4 would be plenty, 1d6 is pushing it.
Given the twin beams and “gotcha” nature, perhaps consider making it 2d4 drop the lowest. That would result in a decent and highly dependable damage average without going overboard.
I’m in agreement with Cyb3r & co. It’s too much damage to also have the rider on top. According to the DMG section on creating new spells, 2d4 is considered roughly on par with 1d10, meaning this spell has the same average damage as Fire Bolt (the most damaging Wiz Cantrip in 5e) but with a less resisted damage type and a more impactful rider than Vicious Mockery has. 1d4 would be plenty, 1d6 is pushing it.
You are giving Vicious Mockery too little credit as it also forces a CON save on someone concentrating(damage rule against someone concentrating) as well as makes their next attack roll (weapon or spell) have disadvantage which can easily affect action economy more than JUST losing concentration.
I’m in agreement with Cyb3r & co. It’s too much damage to also have the rider on top. According to the DMG section on creating new spells, 2d4 is considered roughly on par with 1d10, meaning this spell has the same average damage as Fire Bolt (the most damaging Wiz Cantrip in 5e) but with a less resisted damage type and a more impactful rider than Vicious Mockery has. 1d4 would be plenty, 1d6 is pushing it.
You are giving Vicious Mockery too little credit as it also forces a CON save on someone concentrating(damage rule against someone concentrating) as well as makes their next attack roll (weapon or spell) have disadvantage which can easily affect action economy more than JUST losing concentration.
You’re preaching to the quire, I love VM, but from 11th on the enemies tend to either have Multiattack or can force saves so even though the spell remains the same it’s impact drops off, and the damage output is is low. Compared that to the new kid on the block which has a rider the party can make use of whenever against whomever just by coordinating, and a bit more chonk to it too.
I like it, but if I added it into my game I'd lower the damage to d4 or d6 due to the additional effect, it's spell to disrupt concentration first and foremost, I don't think it also has to, or even should be, a great damage dealer. I'd also lower the range to 60 feet, it's the range for most damaging cantrips with 120 feet reserved for fire bolt which has pretty much only the benefit of having a hefty d10 for damage.
I'd also lower the range to 60 feet, it's the range for most damaging cantrips with 120 feet reserved for fire bolt which has pretty much only the benefit of having a hefty d10 for damage.
You know I was waiting for someone to point this out. I chose 90 feet to see what people would say yet this part was ignored for the most part. I'm starting to think 60 feet might fit it better but then only Chill Touch, Eldritch Blast, and Fire Bolt would have more than 60 Ft. :/ Chill Touch Super good IMO and has a d8, not a d6 :)
So, have you ever been put in a high magic setting where you are fighting a lot of mages and you are a mage yourself? You know concentration spells can be strong and most take magic missile to interrupt concentration. But then they can also know the Shield spell. Well, won't mages just come up with a spell to fight mages then? Something constant to make concentrating hard? Thus my spell.
Distracting Bolt
If you like it just add it to your home-brew spells or up-vote it. If not, I would love to read why you don't like it. :)
You can find my published homebrew Spells here.
this is very nice. though I would prefer if you used something other then a really large font size all the time
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Wait, so a single mage gets hit by A CANTRIP and permanently has disadvantage on con saves unless targeted with dispel magic or ends his spell, which takes an action for the mage to cast to end the effect, and a 3rd level slot? Bruh, I'd put that at a high level spell.
An easy fix would be to put the disadvantage on con saves to be only concentration saves, as well as only have the disadvantage last until the start of the caster's next turn. Then, I'd say it's balanced.
I think you are misunderstanding something here. Let us go over the wording and the Rules for concentration.
First the rule this applies to can be found here. https://www.dndbeyond.com/sources/phb/spellcasting#Concentration
Namely the part that says this: Taking damage. Whenever you take damage while you are concentrating on a spell, you must make a Constitution saving throw to maintain your concentration. The DC equals 10 or half the damage you take, whichever number is higher. If you take damage from multiple sources, such as an arrow and a dragon's breath, you make a separate saving throw for each source of damage.
And the wording of Distracting Bolt saying this: Two intertwined bolts of energy shoot from you hand. Make a ranged spell attack against the target. On a hit, the target takes 2d4 lightning damage and if the target is concentrating (on a spell or ability), it makes it's Constitution Saving Throw with disadvantage.
So if someone is concentrating on a spell and gets hit by this, the CON save they HAVE to make right then gets the Disadvantage. I'm not sure how you are reading it but that is how the spell is worded to work with the rules.
Get hit with the spell and if concentrating -> Disadvantage on that CON save to keep concentration.
You can find my published homebrew Spells here.
Fire Bolt - Has 120 Range, hits for 1d10 (5.5 adv dmg, 11 at 5th level, 16.5 at 11th level, 22 at 17th level), sets things on fire
Ray of Frost - Has 60 Range, hits for 1d8 (4.5 adv dmg, 9 at 5th level, 13.5 at 11th level, 18 at 17th level), takes away 10 movement form target
Distracting Bolt - Has 90 Range, hits for 2d4 (5 adv dmg, 10 at 5th level, 15 at 11th level, 20 at 17th level ), only does extra stuff to creatures that are Concentrating. (Fire bolt still has higher adv damage at all levels of play)
Lightning damage may be resisted less by some monsters but it has less range and average damage than a fire bolt. The kicker is instead of setting things on fire, you have an easier time of breaking concentration. But most creatures are not Concentration spell casters from what I've seen. Only good in some cases.
Also, I tend to follow this for spell creation and lower damage based on effect done if it is similar to an existing spell or does a lot on its own. https://www.dndbeyond.com/sources/dmg/dungeon-masters-workshop#SpellDamage
Namely this part: You can use different damage dice than the ones in the table, provided that the average result is about the same. Doing so can add a little variety to the spell. For example, you could change a cantrip’s damage from 1d10 (average 5.5) to 2d4 (average 5), reducing the maximum damage and making an average result more likely.
Thank you for your feed back though.
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this is litterally how it already works
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Personally I'm in agreement with Lyxen here. Disadvantage to their concentration check is a powerful effect to force upon an enemy caster. With 1d6 it's still a DC 10 con save, and most mages don't have high con and less have con save proficiency, so it's usually, +2 at most. That means to succeed they need to roll an 8 or higher, which is 60% chance to do so - which means 2/5 chance of failure. That alone can be hefty, and now you're adding disadvantage. That's quite massive.
At 4d6 max damage this is a minimum DC 10 to max of DC 12, with disadvantage against mages most of whom have only +2 or +3 to con. So this is already going a long way with a decent chance to break concentration which you get to do every round.
With your d10s, this is even further ramped up. 4d10 is up to 40, which would be DC 20 in and of itself. And if you crit with max damage that's DC 40 with disadvantage.
It's quite easy to get bonus to this, for instance Evokers can add +Int, which will quickly be a +5 to damage. 4d10+5 is an average of 27, which is DC 13 with disadvantage. On a crit that's DC 26 with disadvantage.
As a cantrip.
Normally spells that affect concentration are 3rd level and higher (Sleet Storm, Synaptic Static) so if I was being completely honest - I wouldn't have this do damage at all. I would have it be just disadvantage to the next concentration check it makes before the end of your next turn.
So, to be fair, 1d6 > 4d6, is plenty and more than what I would allow at my table.
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I’m in agreement with Cyb3r & co. It’s too much damage to also have the rider on top. According to the DMG section on creating new spells, 2d4 is considered roughly on par with 1d10, meaning this spell has the same average damage as Fire Bolt (the most damaging Wiz Cantrip in 5e) but with a less resisted damage type and a more impactful rider than Vicious Mockery has. 1d4 would be plenty, 1d6 is pushing it.
Given the twin beams and “gotcha” nature, perhaps consider making it 2d4 drop the lowest. That would result in a decent and highly dependable damage average without going overboard.
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You are giving Vicious Mockery too little credit as it also forces a CON save on someone concentrating(damage rule against someone concentrating) as well as makes their next attack roll (weapon or spell) have disadvantage which can easily affect action economy more than JUST losing concentration.
You can find my published homebrew Spells here.
You’re preaching to the quire, I love VM, but from 11th on the enemies tend to either have Multiattack or can force saves so even though the spell remains the same it’s impact drops off, and the damage output is is low. Compared that to the new kid on the block which has a rider the party can make use of whenever against whomever just by coordinating, and a bit more chonk to it too.
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I think that most of the feedback so far can just be resumed by: You should probably lower the damage die of your cantrip to a d6.
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I like it, but if I added it into my game I'd lower the damage to d4 or d6 due to the additional effect, it's spell to disrupt concentration first and foremost, I don't think it also has to, or even should be, a great damage dealer. I'd also lower the range to 60 feet, it's the range for most damaging cantrips with 120 feet reserved for fire bolt which has pretty much only the benefit of having a hefty d10 for damage.
You know I was waiting for someone to point this out. I chose 90 feet to see what people would say yet this part was ignored for the most part. I'm starting to think 60 feet might fit it better but then only Chill Touch, Eldritch Blast, and Fire Bolt would have more than 60 Ft. :/ Chill Touch Super good IMO and has a d8, not a d6 :)
You can find my published homebrew Spells here.