The subclass listed below reflects the amendments accepted from the discussion below. I am, however, still very much looking for feedback!
Hi all! I have been working for a bit now on a replacement for the cavalier subclass, as I am rather dissatisfied with it. I call this homebrew subclass the Èlite. Without getting too far into my critiques of the cavalier, I think its abilities are underwhelming as far as capturing the flavor of the subclass as there is very little that demonstrates its steed masterness, almost every ability is situational, and most of the abilities are either improved versions of feats or battle master maneuvers.
I am interested what others think about my draft subclass in terms of flavor, balance, etc. I am feeling pretty excited about this draft overall, though I am open most centrally to potential alternatives to the Stalwart Sortie ability given at level 3. Its current version has the advantage of being a good ability to use in almost any combat situation given that it can be used whenever you make an attack, and it can be paired with the Bold Charge ability later on. However, I kind of wish it was a bit more in line with the cavalier flavor. For instance, I have been thinking about it adding to the precision of an attack rather than its damage, or giving an ally a bonus attack as a reaction.
Anyway, please let me know what you think! I am excited to get the input of the D&D community as I begin testing of this subclass :).
Also, for those who read my previous version, please note that this one is rather dramatically updated.
Èlite
The typical Èlite belongs to the moral and social elect. They aim to embody a virtuous life and conduct. Èlite fighters are oftentimes born among minor noble families, and receive a robust education in the ways of combat, horsemanship, and honorable mien. As a result they excel both by the heft of their sword and by the force of their rhetoric. Because they are trained to be noble in combat they learn how to protect others in battle. And while their daring acts with a blade and shield can be the stuff of a bard's tale, there are few sights as impressive as an Èlite fighter charging into the fray atop their steed at their peak of skill. Some Èlite are so skilled at commanding their steed that they are rumored to be able to share telepathic communication with them.
Beyond those Èlite who come from high society, they can also be found among any who might be expected to receive a similar range of training or experience. For instance, an Èlite fighter might be an officer in a mercenary company, groomed for negotiation over contracts, formal engagements, as well as mounted combat.
Knightly Èlite
As a result of a robust education, you are a member of the èlite. When you choose this subclass at 3rd level, you gain special dice that fuel some of your abilities called èlite dice.
Èlite Dice. You have a number of èlite dice equal to twice your proficiency modifier. They are d6s. An èlite die is expended when you use it. You can use only one ability that modifies an attack and expends an èlite die per attack. You regain all of your expended èlite dice when you finish a long rest.
At 5th level your èlite dice become d8s, at 11th level they become d10s, and at 17th level, d12s.
ÈliteRespite. Once per day when you finish a short rest, you can recover a number of èlite dice equal to half your proficiency modifier.
Stalwart Cavalier
At 3rd level your skill as a result of your èlite training is evident. As a result it only takes only 5 movement for you to mount or dismount a creature. You can also launch a brutal attack when in single combat, menace your foes, foiling their attacks and punishing them for harming others, and gain special benefits toward handling domesticated animals as well as persuading others. You gain the following uses of your èlite dice.
Stalwart Sortie. Immediately after you hit a target with a melee attack and deal damage to it with a weapon, if you are within 5 feet of it and no other creatures are within 5 feet of you, you can expend one èlite die. Roll the èlite die and add it to your attack's damage roll.
Stalwart Mark. When you hit a creature with a melee weapon attack, you can spend an èlite die to mark the creature until the end of your next turn. This effect ends early if you are incapacitated or you die, or if someone else marks the creature.
While it is within 5 feet of you, a creature marked by you has disadvantage on any attack roll that does not target you.
In addition, if a creature marked by you deals damage to anyone other than you, you can roll your expended èlite die and add it to the first attack roll you make on your next turn. If it hits, the attack deals extra damage equal to your proficiency bonus. You may not use abilities that alter attacks and expend an èlite die in combination with this second attack.
Èlite Acumen. When you make an Wisdom (Animal Handling) or Charisma (Persuasion) check you can expend an èlite die. Roll said die, and add the result to the ability check.
Virtuous Appeal
At 7th level, you can take an oath by whatever code or creed is meaningful to you and use your rhetorical skill to bolster a comrade's resolve, as well as use your expertise at parley to impress upon your opponents the importance of diplomacy rather than unnecessary conflict. As an action, you can make a Charisma (Persuasion) check contested by a creature’s Wisdom (Insight) check. A creature can choose to lose this contested check. The creature must be able to hear you, and the two of you must share a language.
If you succeed choose one of the following two effects.
You can suppress any effect causing a target to be charmed or frightened. When this abilty's effect ends, any suppressed effect resumes, provided that its duration has not expired in the meantime.
Alternatively, you can make them indifferent about creatures of your choice that they are hostile toward for the next minute. This indifference ends if the target is attacked or harmed by a spell or if it witnesses any of its friends being harmed. At the DM's discretion, on subsequent turns they can choose to have you to re-roll this ability's contested check if it is apparent to the target you or your allies are preparing to take aggressive action against the target or their friends.
You must concentrate on this effect as though concentrating on a spell. Once used, you may not use this ability again until after you finish a long rest, unless you expend an èlite die to do so again. After using an èlite die in this way, you may not do so again until after you finish a long rest.
Roughrider's Prowess
At 10th level, you learn to charge decisively into the fray, knocking down your enemies in the process. Your ability to form bonds with and train mounts develops as well. You and your mount no longer need communication that is readily perceivable by others, the steed and rider now acting seamlessly. You can also call upon your mount to aid you in and out of battle. You gain the following abilities.
Bold Charge. Once per turn, if you move at least 10 ft. and in a straight line right before attacking a huge or smaller creature using your Stalwart Sortie ability or Stalwart Mark ability that creature must succeed on a STR saving throw or be knocked prone. This ability can be used whether you are mounted or not.
Noble Steed. You may give your mount typical commands while mounted without sounds or visible cues.
Also, while mounted on a willing creature you control, you may use a bonus action to give your mount a command to aid in some task. As a result, your mount may take the help action, rather than only the dodge, dash, or disengage actions, as its action until the end of its next turn. You may use this ability once per short or long rest, unless you expend an èlite die to do so again.
Extrication Maneuver
At level 15, when you take the attack action you can forgo one of your attacks and expend an èlite die to maneuver yourself or one of your companions. Choose a friendly creature who can see or hear you. The creature can use its reaction to move up to half its speed without provoking an opportunity attack. This movement may be used to join you on your mount if you are mounted and your mount can support the additional rider. Your mount is also a viable target for this ability.
Martyrdom
Starting at 18th level, you can interpose yourself between incoming attacks on your allies or your mount in a noble act of heroism. When an effect, spell, or attack would damage a creature you can see within 5 feet of you, you can use your reaction to instead take the damage yourself. You have the resistance to damage taken in this way. If as a result of the damage from this attack your hit points fall to zero or below such that you would fall unconscious, though not if you would die outright, you gain one hit point at the start of your next turn. Once you use this ability you may not use it again until after you finish a long rest.
Part of the reason that Subclass was written as it is to not be so dependent on the Mount is because there will inevitably be many situations in which mounted combat is ill advised. After all, a Medium creature riding a Large creature in a narrow dungeon is not always plausible. And mounts die easy too.
I’m not telling you not to do it your way, I’m just explaining why the Cavalier was written the way it was.
I totally hear that and read that elsewhere as well. I actually tried to emulate that part of the cavalier design. My rendition is also almost entirely not dependent on a mount. Only one ability cannot be used unless mounted, which is the 10th level Noble Steed.
Not sure mounted subclasses are worthwhile, no matter how you design them. You can only really enjoy mounted gameplay in an open area, and if one player adopts a mount, all of them will want to participate too.
Having better general mounted combat rules and ancillary mounted combat development has a better impact on a mounted players experience than dedicating their subclass to it. Outside of the fundamental expectation that your mounted warriors have some animal handling and maybe a feat to qualify general mounted combat, things like acquiring a Warhorse, barding the mount, swapping equipment for cavalry benefits and more are investment enough to enable effective mounted gameplay without committing ones subclass to it.
Sadly, the classes that will actually destroy in mounted combat will not be knights, it will be mounted archers or other artillery. The ability to dash on mount or disengage while performing your actions allows the classic tactical supremacy to reveal itself. An archery based fighter is going to get a tremendous amount of value over any cavalier you design by simple virtue of tactics. Riding your expensive and fragile mount into danger does not take advantage of all the complex benefits of mobility, a mounted archer however can harass even other mounted foes with ease.
@Bahamut_Kaiser, while appreciate that you took the time to comment on my homebrew subclass, such as it is, I obviously differ in whether or not I think a mount-master flavored subclass is worthwhile. I agree that other players will want mounts, and I think that is great. And, while you might be correct that ranged mounted combat character would be superior to melee, I am not designing this subclass for a specific mechanical benefit or to be 'the best'.
I am interested in the flavor and narrative a character who is a steed-master can bring, and the subclass is designed to promote that flavor above other considerations. There are ways of life, styles of combat, politics, philosophy, etc. that can be explored with a mount specialist subclass. For instance, Rohan in Lord of the Rings is distinctive for its horse mastery, and the Dothraki in Game of Thrones are so tied with their horses that they are central to their nomadic and way of life. Their religion is centered around it.
So, I certainly think it is fair that you think my attempt is not worthwhile (that is fine, don't play it). I think it largely wastes both of our time for you to comment telling me that I shouldn't bother with the effort. I hope you understand, I don't mean any ill will. But I am continuing to work on this subclass, and I hope some will find it interesting enough to get some critical feedback that helps me in its development. If not, so be it, and I will have fun with it either for my players who are interested in it or play it at some point myself.
Finally, I think better mounted combat rules might well be helpful, and I hope we get some (I have my eyes on Arcadia for some possible homebrew ones). However, that does not take away my desire for a mount specialist subclass for the reasons I mentioned above. Having better rules would only make the experience of the sublcass that much better.
I'm not saying a mounted character shouldn't be done, but a character doesn't need to invest their subclass into it to roleplay. What I'm saying is that the features can be enabled without investing their subclass, the cost and endeavor of gaining the mount and maintaining it is enough to grant the benefits, they can specialize in all the other features of the game and have any mount related benefits automatically, or as a tertiary class.
Beyond that, simple homebrew rules like full tandem PC/mount turns allow melee to hit and run. Allowing the mount to use its attacks rather than restricting is actions also gives melee combatants the attack advantage of 2 units that they would maintain if they simply let the mount attack while the PC is on foot.
Your subclass is fine if you want to identify your character by its subclass, but you'll get more out of stronger homebrew rules for mounted combat, even with an unrelated subclass, than just the subclass itself.
While I certainly understand it is quite the topic and there's good points being made (I'd gladly bully my DM with a griffin-mounted archer any day), I'd rather focus on discussing what this archetype wants to do instead of the viability of mounted combat overall. I will be assuming the character uses a melee weapon for this purpose, so keep that in mind.
Things I Love.
Being able to use your dice to help with animal handling is a fantastic flavour choice. Fun, if situational, use of a resource.
The foresight of only allowing the short rest to recover dice once per day is clever. I'll admit they had me in the first half, but that limitation makes it feel fair.
Extraction Manoeuvre. "Quickly, take my hand and get on my horse!" Not only is it great utility and flavour, but think of the roleplay implications.
Earlygame Role. At third level, you effectively get a great damage feature and a fantastic tanking feature. Certainly the damage feature doesn't give your rogue advantage, but I think Stalwart Mark by itself is fantastic at discouraging foes from chasing your squishiest ally. These two features, especially since Stalwart Mark also deals damage, feel like they are at odds with one another. Many of the future features focus on being defender with some support, which is great, but I don't get that feeling at third level.
Virtuous Appeal-1. When you suspend a condition while holding the line in combat, you're going to take hits and you're going to take concentration saves. Because you sacrifice an action, this might not be worth it in combat. Which is fine, mind you. Just something to keep in mind if you didn't know already.
Virtuous Appeal-2. If you convince creature to not be hostile to you, then sees all your party members hold actions to wallop them or their friends, does the effect persist?
Martyrdom. This doubles the effective hitpoints your character adds to the party if you have at least one melee ally who is not a barbarian. It might be prevalent to impose some kind of limit to keep it from getting too silly.
Mounted Combatant feat. So we had this one coming, but mounts are squishy. This feat solves that before martyrdom comes online, which basically makes it mandatory to play this archetype as intended(?) Otherwise you're just a Fireball away from being on foot and horses are expensive when you're not a paladin. I'm personally not a fan of making feats mandatory in order to be effective, but considering we have things like PAM and GWM being staple builds, that's up to you.
I hope that helps. Good luck with developing your ideas!
@superparaplu, thank you for these comments! They are super helpful.
First, let me say on your comment on Martyrdom that I totally hear and agree with you. I meant for it to be limited to once per long rest, but I suppose I forgot to write that down? lol. In the subclass on DnD Beyond I even already had a limited use of once per long rest built in. I will edit the post and the description of the ability to reflect this.
On your concern regarding mounts dying: I also anticipate that this subclass's mount might be somewhat fragile without the Mounted Combatant feat, but honestly I think that is fine. Even short of the feat, you can take the interception or protection fighting styles that offer some defense for your mount. And, I think that the subclass, without the feat, has a mount or two die is probably fine, it offers some roleplay situations to deal with your mount's death (or character driven quests to have them resurrected?), and probably reflects some of the reality of melee mounted combat.
Virtuous Appeal. I think that you are going to have to face some concentration checks is probably a good thing as well. Making a desperate plea to see reason and stop the fighting while you frantically repel incoming attacks can be a cool cinematic moment. Further, that this ability is potentially combat ending is not lost on me, and so having it be a risky thing to use seems reasonable as well.
Finally, I basically borrowed the Calm Emotions spell for this ability, but I think you are probably right about your point that 'if they see your allies preparing to attack them they might not see reason anymore.' I will have to think through how to handle this, but right now I am considering adding a line that at the DM's discretion they can make you reroll your check to see if the ability holds if it is apparent you are preparing for hostile acts. I don't want that to end the ability's effect outright however, as it also seems reasonable that your friends might not lower their weapons at the first sign that you might be able to negotiate.
Your concern regarding the early game abilities is also one I share. The reason for Stalwart Sortie is that I thought that one of the real weaknesses of the Cavalier is that all or nearly all its abilities are situational. There might be frequently entire combats where none of your abilities come into play. This ability was meant to be a fallback that made your subclass choice feel useful in most combat situations. That being said, I don't think the ability fits well with the flavor of the subclass as a whole. On the other hand, it makes sense that a trained knightly figure might also be a skilled killer. The ability isn't bad for the subclass, but it isn't great either.
I wonder what you think of the solutions I am entertaining. First, limit Stalwart Sortie to once per attack action. This way you won't be adding 3-4 d10s or 12s on a round when you decide to particularly burst damagey at higher levels. Second, I am considering it adding some other kind of functionality besides damage. For instance, it might add to an attack role rather than damage, or the ability to offer some benefit to your allies rather than yourself. But then, this subclass might find that it offers very little in one on one combat if I take that latter route. I want this subclass to feel like it doesn't just flounder if you find yourself in an honorable one-on-one duel, even while it should excel when supporting allies or on horseback or both. Are there any other ways to handle the tension posed by Stalwart Sortie in the subclass that come to mind that I might have not considered?
Finally, I am so glad you like the Extrication Maneuver! That is exactly what I was going for with that ability. A friend of mine wrote to me that it could be epic for this kind of subclass to be able to gallop through the battlefield and swing their ally onto their mount to save them. I thought that was a great idea and this is what I came up with.
Anyway, thank you again for your excellent feedback. Sorry to make even more reading for you and others with my reply!
Hm. I'm not sure how I'd change Stalwart Sortie. One thing I'm playing with in my head is a mix of the swashbuckler's Rakish Audacity and the hobgoblin's saving face requirements, where once per turn you can add that dice to a damage roll, but only if people are witnessing your duel from a distance. It would make it very situational, but it'd give some one on one utility while keeping the theme of a knight who has to keep up a noble standard for their onlookers. Or challenging a foe to single combat while they order their mooks to stay out of it, even when your allies are down.
Give Matyrdom only works on a single attack at a level where everything has multiple attacks, I think it'd be fine to have a few uses or recover on a short rest. Imagine you're fighting a tarrasque and your capstone prevents 16 average damage and then goes offline. 32 average damage if, for some reason, you're at 1 HP. The not-dying part is pretty darn good, but it is still only once per combat if it recovers on a short rest. If you have multiple uses per combat, on the other hand, that part of it might warrant some limitation.
Thank again for your thoughtful discussion, @superparaplu. I really appreciate it, especially because you are under no obligation to spend the necessary time to do so.
What do you think about this language: When you make an attack, if you are within 5 feet of your target, and no other creatures are within 5 feet of it, you may expend an elite die. You gain a bonus to the roll equal to the number of allies you can see within 30 feet of you (maximum bonus of +5). If you hit, roll the expended elite die. Add the number rolled to to the attack's damage.
Or:
When you make hit with an attack, if you are within 5 feet of your target, and no other creatures are within 5 feet of it, you may expend an elite die. If you hit, roll the expended elite die. Add the number rolled to the attack's damage.
Or:
When you hit with an attack, if you are within 5 feet of your target, no other creatures are within 5 feet of it, and at least one creature within 30 feet can see you, you may expend an elite die. Roll the expended elite die, and add the number rolled to the attack's damage.
All good, you clearly put a lot of thought and passion in your work, which makes it fun for me to talk about. Besides, getting feedback is pretty hard when only 7 topics make it to the front page. I'm in the same situation myself so I feel that pain haha.
Anyhow. Mechanically, I'd go with the last one if put on the spot. Mostly because I can't think of a Battle Master build where I wouldn't pick Precision Attack and I think keeping it more situational helps with keeping that role identity. That might be me erring a bit too much on the side of caution, though. Flavour-wise, I do think the elite would care more about consistency than extra damage. Playtesting, as always, would be in order. It is tricky to balance tanking abilities with damage ones sometimes because you don't know the party composition people will be running with. If you have 3 bear barbs and a fully armoured life cleric, you might as well spend all dice on Sortie. Whereas running with a bunch of squishies would mean Mark would see a lot more use.
After seeing this comment I found your barbarian subclass on the forum! It looks super interesting (I love the level of customization, and I have also been desirous for a reasonable unarmed barb that didn't just rely on Tavern Brawler). I will give it a closer read once work is not so hectic in the next few days.
Thanks for your input again on Stalwart Sortie. I think I will go for option two to start for the sake of testing, as I am relatively convinced of the argument that it is easier to start at OP and then reduce power to a reasonable level than to start UP and dial it up.
I made the current version accessible to the community. I start testing on Tuesday; please feel free to try it out yourselves as well if you would like!
Note: Find the subclass usable on DnD Beyond here https://www.dndbeyond.com/subclasses/699974-elite
The subclass listed below reflects the amendments accepted from the discussion below. I am, however, still very much looking for feedback!
Hi all! I have been working for a bit now on a replacement for the cavalier subclass, as I am rather dissatisfied with it. I call this homebrew subclass the Èlite. Without getting too far into my critiques of the cavalier, I think its abilities are underwhelming as far as capturing the flavor of the subclass as there is very little that demonstrates its steed masterness, almost every ability is situational, and most of the abilities are either improved versions of feats or battle master maneuvers.
I am interested what others think about my draft subclass in terms of flavor, balance, etc. I am feeling pretty excited about this draft overall, though I am open most centrally to potential alternatives to the Stalwart Sortie ability given at level 3. Its current version has the advantage of being a good ability to use in almost any combat situation given that it can be used whenever you make an attack, and it can be paired with the Bold Charge ability later on. However, I kind of wish it was a bit more in line with the cavalier flavor. For instance, I have been thinking about it adding to the precision of an attack rather than its damage, or giving an ally a bonus attack as a reaction.
Anyway, please let me know what you think! I am excited to get the input of the D&D community as I begin testing of this subclass :).
Also, for those who read my previous version, please note that this one is rather dramatically updated.
Èlite
The typical Èlite belongs to the moral and social elect. They aim to embody a virtuous life and conduct. Èlite fighters are oftentimes born among minor noble families, and receive a robust education in the ways of combat, horsemanship, and honorable mien. As a result they excel both by the heft of their sword and by the force of their rhetoric. Because they are trained to be noble in combat they learn how to protect others in battle. And while their daring acts with a blade and shield can be the stuff of a bard's tale, there are few sights as impressive as an Èlite fighter charging into the fray atop their steed at their peak of skill. Some Èlite are so skilled at commanding their steed that they are rumored to be able to share telepathic communication with them.
Beyond those Èlite who come from high society, they can also be found among any who might be expected to receive a similar range of training or experience. For instance, an Èlite fighter might be an officer in a mercenary company, groomed for negotiation over contracts, formal engagements, as well as mounted combat.
Knightly Èlite
As a result of a robust education, you are a member of the èlite. When you choose this subclass at 3rd level, you gain special dice that fuel some of your abilities called èlite dice.
Èlite Dice. You have a number of èlite dice equal to twice your proficiency modifier. They are d6s. An èlite die is expended when you use it. You can use only one ability that modifies an attack and expends an èlite die per attack. You regain all of your expended èlite dice when you finish a long rest.
At 5th level your èlite dice become d8s, at 11th level they become d10s, and at 17th level, d12s.
Èlite Respite. Once per day when you finish a short rest, you can recover a number of èlite dice equal to half your proficiency modifier.
Stalwart Cavalier
At 3rd level your skill as a result of your èlite training is evident. As a result it only takes only 5 movement for you to mount or dismount a creature. You can also launch a brutal attack when in single combat, menace your foes, foiling their attacks and punishing them for harming others, and gain special benefits toward handling domesticated animals as well as persuading others. You gain the following uses of your èlite dice.
Stalwart Sortie. Immediately after you hit a target with a melee attack and deal damage to it with a weapon, if you are within 5 feet of it and no other creatures are within 5 feet of you, you can expend one èlite die. Roll the èlite die and add it to your attack's damage roll.
Stalwart Mark. When you hit a creature with a melee weapon attack, you can spend an èlite die to mark the creature until the end of your next turn. This effect ends early if you are incapacitated or you die, or if someone else marks the creature.
While it is within 5 feet of you, a creature marked by you has disadvantage on any attack roll that does not target you.
In addition, if a creature marked by you deals damage to anyone other than you, you can roll your expended èlite die and add it to the first attack roll you make on your next turn. If it hits, the attack deals extra damage equal to your proficiency bonus. You may not use abilities that alter attacks and expend an èlite die in combination with this second attack.
Èlite Acumen. When you make an Wisdom (Animal Handling) or Charisma (Persuasion) check you can expend an èlite die. Roll said die, and add the result to the ability check.
Virtuous Appeal
At 7th level, you can take an oath by whatever code or creed is meaningful to you and use your rhetorical skill to bolster a comrade's resolve, as well as use your expertise at parley to impress upon your opponents the importance of diplomacy rather than unnecessary conflict. As an action, you can make a Charisma (Persuasion) check contested by a creature’s Wisdom (Insight) check. A creature can choose to lose this contested check. The creature must be able to hear you, and the two of you must share a language.
If you succeed choose one of the following two effects.
You can suppress any effect causing a target to be charmed or frightened. When this abilty's effect ends, any suppressed effect resumes, provided that its duration has not expired in the meantime.
Alternatively, you can make them indifferent about creatures of your choice that they are hostile toward for the next minute. This indifference ends if the target is attacked or harmed by a spell or if it witnesses any of its friends being harmed. At the DM's discretion, on subsequent turns they can choose to have you to re-roll this ability's contested check if it is apparent to the target you or your allies are preparing to take aggressive action against the target or their friends.
You must concentrate on this effect as though concentrating on a spell. Once used, you may not use this ability again until after you finish a long rest, unless you expend an èlite die to do so again. After using an èlite die in this way, you may not do so again until after you finish a long rest.
Roughrider's Prowess
At 10th level, you learn to charge decisively into the fray, knocking down your enemies in the process. Your ability to form bonds with and train mounts develops as well. You and your mount no longer need communication that is readily perceivable by others, the steed and rider now acting seamlessly. You can also call upon your mount to aid you in and out of battle. You gain the following abilities.
Bold Charge. Once per turn, if you move at least 10 ft. and in a straight line right before attacking a huge or smaller creature using your Stalwart Sortie ability or Stalwart Mark ability that creature must succeed on a STR saving throw or be knocked prone. This ability can be used whether you are mounted or not.
Noble Steed. You may give your mount typical commands while mounted without sounds or visible cues.
Also, while mounted on a willing creature you control, you may use a bonus action to give your mount a command to aid in some task. As a result, your mount may take the help action, rather than only the dodge, dash, or disengage actions, as its action until the end of its next turn. You may use this ability once per short or long rest, unless you expend an èlite die to do so again.
Extrication Maneuver
At level 15, when you take the attack action you can forgo one of your attacks and expend an èlite die to maneuver yourself or one of your companions. Choose a friendly creature who can see or hear you. The creature can use its reaction to move up to half its speed without provoking an opportunity attack. This movement may be used to join you on your mount if you are mounted and your mount can support the additional rider. Your mount is also a viable target for this ability.
Martyrdom
Starting at 18th level, you can interpose yourself between incoming attacks on your allies or your mount in a noble act of heroism. When an effect, spell, or attack would damage a creature you can see within 5 feet of you, you can use your reaction to instead take the damage yourself. You have the resistance to damage taken in this way. If as a result of the damage from this attack your hit points fall to zero or below such that you would fall unconscious, though not if you would die outright, you gain one hit point at the start of your next turn. Once you use this ability you may not use it again until after you finish a long rest.
Part of the reason that Subclass was written as it is to not be so dependent on the Mount is because there will inevitably be many situations in which mounted combat is ill advised. After all, a Medium creature riding a Large creature in a narrow dungeon is not always plausible. And mounts die easy too.
I’m not telling you not to do it your way, I’m just explaining why the Cavalier was written the way it was.
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@IamSposta, thanks for responding :).
I totally hear that and read that elsewhere as well. I actually tried to emulate that part of the cavalier design. My rendition is also almost entirely not dependent on a mount. Only one ability cannot be used unless mounted, which is the 10th level Noble Steed.
Not sure mounted subclasses are worthwhile, no matter how you design them. You can only really enjoy mounted gameplay in an open area, and if one player adopts a mount, all of them will want to participate too.
Having better general mounted combat rules and ancillary mounted combat development has a better impact on a mounted players experience than dedicating their subclass to it. Outside of the fundamental expectation that your mounted warriors have some animal handling and maybe a feat to qualify general mounted combat, things like acquiring a Warhorse, barding the mount, swapping equipment for cavalry benefits and more are investment enough to enable effective mounted gameplay without committing ones subclass to it.
Sadly, the classes that will actually destroy in mounted combat will not be knights, it will be mounted archers or other artillery. The ability to dash on mount or disengage while performing your actions allows the classic tactical supremacy to reveal itself. An archery based fighter is going to get a tremendous amount of value over any cavalier you design by simple virtue of tactics. Riding your expensive and fragile mount into danger does not take advantage of all the complex benefits of mobility, a mounted archer however can harass even other mounted foes with ease.
@Bahamut_Kaiser, while appreciate that you took the time to comment on my homebrew subclass, such as it is, I obviously differ in whether or not I think a mount-master flavored subclass is worthwhile. I agree that other players will want mounts, and I think that is great. And, while you might be correct that ranged mounted combat character would be superior to melee, I am not designing this subclass for a specific mechanical benefit or to be 'the best'.
I am interested in the flavor and narrative a character who is a steed-master can bring, and the subclass is designed to promote that flavor above other considerations. There are ways of life, styles of combat, politics, philosophy, etc. that can be explored with a mount specialist subclass. For instance, Rohan in Lord of the Rings is distinctive for its horse mastery, and the Dothraki in Game of Thrones are so tied with their horses that they are central to their nomadic and way of life. Their religion is centered around it.
So, I certainly think it is fair that you think my attempt is not worthwhile (that is fine, don't play it). I think it largely wastes both of our time for you to comment telling me that I shouldn't bother with the effort. I hope you understand, I don't mean any ill will. But I am continuing to work on this subclass, and I hope some will find it interesting enough to get some critical feedback that helps me in its development. If not, so be it, and I will have fun with it either for my players who are interested in it or play it at some point myself.
Finally, I think better mounted combat rules might well be helpful, and I hope we get some (I have my eyes on Arcadia for some possible homebrew ones). However, that does not take away my desire for a mount specialist subclass for the reasons I mentioned above. Having better rules would only make the experience of the sublcass that much better.
I'm not saying a mounted character shouldn't be done, but a character doesn't need to invest their subclass into it to roleplay. What I'm saying is that the features can be enabled without investing their subclass, the cost and endeavor of gaining the mount and maintaining it is enough to grant the benefits, they can specialize in all the other features of the game and have any mount related benefits automatically, or as a tertiary class.
Beyond that, simple homebrew rules like full tandem PC/mount turns allow melee to hit and run. Allowing the mount to use its attacks rather than restricting is actions also gives melee combatants the attack advantage of 2 units that they would maintain if they simply let the mount attack while the PC is on foot.
Your subclass is fine if you want to identify your character by its subclass, but you'll get more out of stronger homebrew rules for mounted combat, even with an unrelated subclass, than just the subclass itself.
While I certainly understand it is quite the topic and there's good points being made (I'd gladly bully my DM with a griffin-mounted archer any day), I'd rather focus on discussing what this archetype wants to do instead of the viability of mounted combat overall. I will be assuming the character uses a melee weapon for this purpose, so keep that in mind.
Things I Love.
Earlygame Role. At third level, you effectively get a great damage feature and a fantastic tanking feature. Certainly the damage feature doesn't give your rogue advantage, but I think Stalwart Mark by itself is fantastic at discouraging foes from chasing your squishiest ally. These two features, especially since Stalwart Mark also deals damage, feel like they are at odds with one another. Many of the future features focus on being defender with some support, which is great, but I don't get that feeling at third level.
Virtuous Appeal-1. When you suspend a condition while holding the line in combat, you're going to take hits and you're going to take concentration saves. Because you sacrifice an action, this might not be worth it in combat. Which is fine, mind you. Just something to keep in mind if you didn't know already.
Virtuous Appeal-2. If you convince creature to not be hostile to you, then sees all your party members hold actions to wallop them or their friends, does the effect persist?
Martyrdom. This doubles the effective hitpoints your character adds to the party if you have at least one melee ally who is not a barbarian. It might be prevalent to impose some kind of limit to keep it from getting too silly.
Mounted Combatant feat. So we had this one coming, but mounts are squishy. This feat solves that before martyrdom comes online, which basically makes it mandatory to play this archetype as intended(?) Otherwise you're just a Fireball away from being on foot and horses are expensive when you're not a paladin. I'm personally not a fan of making feats mandatory in order to be effective, but considering we have things like PAM and GWM being staple builds, that's up to you.
I hope that helps. Good luck with developing your ideas!
Homebrew creations:
Path of the Feral Trance Barbarian Class | Thread
Wyrmforge Artificer Class | Thread
@superparaplu, thank you for these comments! They are super helpful.
First, let me say on your comment on Martyrdom that I totally hear and agree with you. I meant for it to be limited to once per long rest, but I suppose I forgot to write that down? lol. In the subclass on DnD Beyond I even already had a limited use of once per long rest built in. I will edit the post and the description of the ability to reflect this.
On your concern regarding mounts dying: I also anticipate that this subclass's mount might be somewhat fragile without the Mounted Combatant feat, but honestly I think that is fine. Even short of the feat, you can take the interception or protection fighting styles that offer some defense for your mount. And, I think that the subclass, without the feat, has a mount or two die is probably fine, it offers some roleplay situations to deal with your mount's death (or character driven quests to have them resurrected?), and probably reflects some of the reality of melee mounted combat.
Virtuous Appeal. I think that you are going to have to face some concentration checks is probably a good thing as well. Making a desperate plea to see reason and stop the fighting while you frantically repel incoming attacks can be a cool cinematic moment. Further, that this ability is potentially combat ending is not lost on me, and so having it be a risky thing to use seems reasonable as well.
Finally, I basically borrowed the Calm Emotions spell for this ability, but I think you are probably right about your point that 'if they see your allies preparing to attack them they might not see reason anymore.' I will have to think through how to handle this, but right now I am considering adding a line that at the DM's discretion they can make you reroll your check to see if the ability holds if it is apparent you are preparing for hostile acts. I don't want that to end the ability's effect outright however, as it also seems reasonable that your friends might not lower their weapons at the first sign that you might be able to negotiate.
Your concern regarding the early game abilities is also one I share. The reason for Stalwart Sortie is that I thought that one of the real weaknesses of the Cavalier is that all or nearly all its abilities are situational. There might be frequently entire combats where none of your abilities come into play. This ability was meant to be a fallback that made your subclass choice feel useful in most combat situations. That being said, I don't think the ability fits well with the flavor of the subclass as a whole. On the other hand, it makes sense that a trained knightly figure might also be a skilled killer. The ability isn't bad for the subclass, but it isn't great either.
I wonder what you think of the solutions I am entertaining. First, limit Stalwart Sortie to once per attack action. This way you won't be adding 3-4 d10s or 12s on a round when you decide to particularly burst damagey at higher levels. Second, I am considering it adding some other kind of functionality besides damage. For instance, it might add to an attack role rather than damage, or the ability to offer some benefit to your allies rather than yourself. But then, this subclass might find that it offers very little in one on one combat if I take that latter route. I want this subclass to feel like it doesn't just flounder if you find yourself in an honorable one-on-one duel, even while it should excel when supporting allies or on horseback or both. Are there any other ways to handle the tension posed by Stalwart Sortie in the subclass that come to mind that I might have not considered?
Finally, I am so glad you like the Extrication Maneuver! That is exactly what I was going for with that ability. A friend of mine wrote to me that it could be epic for this kind of subclass to be able to gallop through the battlefield and swing their ally onto their mount to save them. I thought that was a great idea and this is what I came up with.
Anyway, thank you again for your excellent feedback. Sorry to make even more reading for you and others with my reply!
Hm. I'm not sure how I'd change Stalwart Sortie. One thing I'm playing with in my head is a mix of the swashbuckler's Rakish Audacity and the hobgoblin's saving face requirements, where once per turn you can add that dice to a damage roll, but only if people are witnessing your duel from a distance. It would make it very situational, but it'd give some one on one utility while keeping the theme of a knight who has to keep up a noble standard for their onlookers. Or challenging a foe to single combat while they order their mooks to stay out of it, even when your allies are down.
Give Matyrdom only works on a single attack at a level where everything has multiple attacks, I think it'd be fine to have a few uses or recover on a short rest. Imagine you're fighting a tarrasque and your capstone prevents 16 average damage and then goes offline. 32 average damage if, for some reason, you're at 1 HP. The not-dying part is pretty darn good, but it is still only once per combat if it recovers on a short rest. If you have multiple uses per combat, on the other hand, that part of it might warrant some limitation.
Homebrew creations:
Path of the Feral Trance Barbarian Class | Thread
Wyrmforge Artificer Class | Thread
Thank again for your thoughtful discussion, @superparaplu. I really appreciate it, especially because you are under no obligation to spend the necessary time to do so.
What do you think about this language: When you make an attack, if you are within 5 feet of your target, and no other creatures are within 5 feet of it, you may expend an elite die. You gain a bonus to the roll equal to the number of allies you can see within 30 feet of you (maximum bonus of +5). If you hit, roll the expended elite die. Add the number rolled to to the attack's damage.
Or:
When you make hit with an attack, if you are within 5 feet of your target, and no other creatures are within 5 feet of it, you may expend an elite die. If you hit, roll the expended elite die. Add the number rolled to the attack's damage.
Or:
When you hit with an attack, if you are within 5 feet of your target, no other creatures are within 5 feet of it, and at least one creature within 30 feet can see you, you may expend an elite die. Roll the expended elite die, and add the number rolled to the attack's damage.
All good, you clearly put a lot of thought and passion in your work, which makes it fun for me to talk about. Besides, getting feedback is pretty hard when only 7 topics make it to the front page. I'm in the same situation myself so I feel that pain haha.
Anyhow. Mechanically, I'd go with the last one if put on the spot. Mostly because I can't think of a Battle Master build where I wouldn't pick Precision Attack and I think keeping it more situational helps with keeping that role identity. That might be me erring a bit too much on the side of caution, though. Flavour-wise, I do think the elite would care more about consistency than extra damage. Playtesting, as always, would be in order. It is tricky to balance tanking abilities with damage ones sometimes because you don't know the party composition people will be running with. If you have 3 bear barbs and a fully armoured life cleric, you might as well spend all dice on Sortie. Whereas running with a bunch of squishies would mean Mark would see a lot more use.
Homebrew creations:
Path of the Feral Trance Barbarian Class | Thread
Wyrmforge Artificer Class | Thread
After seeing this comment I found your barbarian subclass on the forum! It looks super interesting (I love the level of customization, and I have also been desirous for a reasonable unarmed barb that didn't just rely on Tavern Brawler). I will give it a closer read once work is not so hectic in the next few days.
Thanks for your input again on Stalwart Sortie. I think I will go for option two to start for the sake of testing, as I am relatively convinced of the argument that it is easier to start at OP and then reduce power to a reasonable level than to start UP and dial it up.
That's a more than fair way to go about playtesting. Good luck and have fun when you do!
Homebrew creations:
Path of the Feral Trance Barbarian Class | Thread
Wyrmforge Artificer Class | Thread
I made the current version accessible to the community. I start testing on Tuesday; please feel free to try it out yourselves as well if you would like!
https://www.dndbeyond.com/subclasses/699974-elite