I am theorycrafting a Barberor (Sorcarian?), Barbarian/Path of the Beast 9, Sorcerer/Clockwork Soul 7. Took feats Grappler, Fighting Initiate/Unarmed Fighting, and Metamagic Adept. My combat plan for this character is to create a dangerous area of effect like Sickening Radiance and hold an enemies in it. But I ran into a bunch of weird rules that I don't necessarily understand, so I wanted to get a better grasp of the RAW/RAI/RAF. I put my understanding and interpretations below. Interested in your thoughts.
1. Unarmed Fighting and Natural Weapons.
a) How do these work together to determine the damage die and damage type? I know this has been brought up a lot but I can't seem to find the official ruling. If I am unarmed I get a 1D8+str bludgeoning damage, if I have beast claws during rage then I get 1D6+str slashing damage, a bite or tail 1D8 piercing. RAW: pick a formula like with multiple unarmored defense abilities? RAI: Take the highest damage die between Unarmed Fighting and the natural weapon and use the damage type of the natural weapon, dealing 1D8+str slashing damage? RAF: Thinking of going from 1+str damage to 1d4+str damage as upgrading the damage die for unarmed attacks, Unarmed Fighting upgrades your damage die 2-3 times from 1+str to 1D6+str/1D8+str if unarmed. So it would upgrade the damage die for your natural weapons as well. A Bite would do 1D12 piercing, claws would do 1D10+str/1D12+str if unarmed, and a tail would both do 1D12+str and absorb 1D12 damage as a reaction.
b) If I take an attack action, can I make two unarmed attacks and substitute any of my natural weapons instead (Bite/Claws/Tail), or do I have to forgo multiple unarmed attacks and use the entire attack action to make a single attack with a natural weapon, or can I make two unarmed attacks but only use bite/tail once, while I can use claws for both? RAW: No clue? RAI: probably the latter, can sub any natural weapon attack for an unarmed attack but only use the natural weapon once per natural weapon, no double biting. RAF: Double biting!
2. Grappling, Shoving, & Conditions.
a) Grappled. Does the Grappled condition stack - can a creature be grappled by multiple creatures at the same time? If not, does the most recent grappler end the grapple of an earlier grappler including ending the restrained condition if the target was pinned? Or do they auto fail grappling? RAW: Yes, a creature be grappled by multiple creatures at the same time. "If multiple Effects impose the same condition on a creature, each instance of the condition has its own Duration, but the condition’s Effects don’t get worse." As many people can grapple a creature as can fit within reach. The grappled condition stacks and is applied (and ended) separately for each grappling creature. Note the grappled creature can still do literally any normal action regardless how many people are simultaneously grappling it, even if also restrained and prone. Also, if you move the creature away from others grappling it, the other grapples end - you don't bring everyone that's grappling along for the ride. RAI: Same as RAW. RAF: Not sure here. I like the idea of being able to throw off a whole dogpile of creatures grappling you with one check. Maybe something like if you succeed in breaking a grapple, make a second roll with a 5% chance to break all other grapples. And I would allow other willing creatures in the grapple chain to move with you if they want.
b) Shoving. What happens if you shove a grappled creature into a fully occupied space, so that they end the shove/push in the same place? Does the grapple end? Shoving pushes a creature 5' away from you - do you choose where it moves? Can you even choose to push a creature into a fully occupied space? RAW: You can shove a creature into a fully occupied space. But any 5' space is not usually fully occupied by an object/creature. The creature gets shoved outside of the 5' range of grapple, even if just for a moment, and the grapple ends. Note that it is being pushed, not moving, so it does not trigger an opportunity attack. RAI: Same as RAW shoving a creature away requires ending the grapple. RAF: Shoving a creature into another creature or a wall should at least do 1+str bludgeoning damage like an unarmed attack. And you should be able to choose to maintain the grapple since it was an intentional maneuver.
c) Stacking Grappled, Restrained, and Prone. Just checking if I have this right. A creature that is Grappled, Restrained, and Prone has the following debuffs:
speed is 0, and it can’t benefit from any bonus to its speed.
can't use a movement action for anything until the grapple is ended.
has disadvantage on attack rolls
has disadvantage on Dex saving throws
attack rolls from within 5' have advantage against the creature. Otherwise, the attack roll is made without advantage or disadvantage. (The disadvantage from Prone and the advantage from Restrained offset.)
It bothers me more than a little that a creature that has all three of these conditions can still do any action as normal. Attack with a two handed weapon, draw and aim a ranged two-handed weapon, cast a spell with somatic and verbal components, etc. Still making STR saving throws normally despite all that. But that's RAW/RAI. RAF I would hope some situational penalty would be assessed. I wish there was a tier list like Exhaustion where the more tangled up something is, the closer to being effectively Paralyzed it becomes.
d) Grappling. How many creatures can I grapple and pin/restrain at the same time? RAW/RAI: As many as I can reach, as long as I have a free hand. RAF: I don't usually think of realism as fun, but sometimes magically being able to simultaneously pin or move around eight creatures at the same time breaks immersion beyond my "it's the magic of your spirit" bounderies. I think some link to other conditions like not being able to grapple while restrained or to encumbrance like not being able to pin more then double your carrying capacity would make more sense.
3. Heated Body. The Construct Spirit (Metal) has Heated Body, dealing 1D10 fire damage when it is touched or hit by a creature.
a) Does Heated Body deal damage in either case if the Construct Spirit (Metal) is grappling or grappled by a creature? How often? RAW: Heated body triggers once if someone tries to grapple it. RAI: Probably also that anytime a creature attempts to escape a grapple from the Construct Spirit (Metal), it procs the Heated Body damage. RAF: As RAI but also procs at the start of the grappled/grappling character's turn.
b) If I shove a creature into a Construct Spirit (Metal), does this proc Heated Body? RAW: I don't think so. RAI: Sure, why not. RAF: Oh yeah!
c) Can I move through a Construct Spirit (Metal) along with a grappled creature, breaking the grapple when I move out of the Construct Spirit (Metal)'s space and triggering Heated Body damage? RAW: No, they don't touch. RAI: Yes, they touch. RAF: You can proc it multiple times on the same movement action if you still have movement, lol.
d) If a Watery Sphere is engulfing a Construct Spirit (Metal), do other engulfed creatures take damage from Heated Body, and how often? (I know these are both concentration spells and I couldn't cast both myself, but others could cast watery sphere.) RAW/RAI: No, creatures inside the Watery Sphere primarily occupy the square they were rammed with or the corresponding space where the sphere originated on top of them(?). But if this puts multiple creatures in the same space, they are still not touching regardless of size, and it's up to the DM to determine where they end up when the spell ends. Even if a creature and the Construct Spirit (Metal) end up in the same space prone, it does not proc Heated Body. RAF: Yes, it's a clam bake. Heat Body procs when a new creature is assimilated alongside a Construct Spirit (Metal) and again every 10' the sphere moves as the engulfed creatures bang up against each other.
4. Watery Sphere continued.
a) If I have grappled someone and engulf both of us inside Watery Sphere, does the grapple end? RAW/RAI/RAF: No. No one moves, and when you move you are moving together.
b) If I am engulfed in a Watery Sphere with another creature and grapple it, does the grapple end when the spell ends? RAW/RAI/RAF: No, being knocked Prone and taking fall damage does not end the Grappled condition, and you land in the same space as you were inside the sphere.
c) Where am I at when engulfed in a watery sphere? Is it really the space where I was originally engulfed, or randomly determined each turn? Or the center point? It just seems problematic that the four creatures it can restrain may all technically occupy the same space regardless of size. RAW: ??? RAI/RAF: Randomly determine a space for each engulfed creature each turn (this can move restrained creatures). The randomness kind of goes with the sorcerer/wild magic and it would be fun to be able to drag someone else in with lightning lure.
d) If I have grappled a creature inside a watery sphere, and that creature makes the STR save for the sphere and gets ejected, do they break the grapple? Do I get ejected with them? I think RAW the watery sphere ejects them and that counts as an effect to end the grapple. RAI I don't know. RAF would be that they had to break a grapple first before being able to escape the sphere.
e) Are creatures engulfed by the sphere considered underwater? Can creatures drown inside the sphere, or are their heads pooping out for breath every now and then? And do I understand correctly that spellcasting while underwater is by RAW up to the DM? RAW: Yes, you are "engulfed" by water, so you are underwater. You hold your breath for CON mod + 1 minutes (min. 30 seconds) then drown for CON mod rounds. Spellcasting is allowed as normal. RAI: I think the watery sphere is intended to be more like a floating whirlpool so you may be engulfed but can probably breathe. Unless you can breathe underwater, you can cast one spell as normal then start drowning. RAF: Honestly it's a toss-up. Being able to drown some creatures might be interesting (14 rounds is kind of a long time, but the option would certainly have its uses.) I wonder what happens if you surprise someone with watery sphere, or even just casting it on occupied squares. Would a creature hold it's breath, or maybe not have as long to last inside the sphere? I know, that's for the DM to decide, but I definitely overlooked this spell's potential before.
Wow, there's a lot here. I can't get to everything right now, but before we go down this road let's make sure one thing is clear:
You cannot concentrate while raging. The second you enter rage, your Sickening Radiance or Watery Sphere or whatever will end. If you want to pull off this concept, you will need a friend to do it.
As for your Beast attacks, unarmed strikes are a different thing than natural weapons. Sometimes you can use natural weapons to make unarmed strikes, like with tabaxi claws or minotaur horns, but that is not a general rule. You can only do that because the features say you can. So claws will always be 1d6, tail and bite 1d8. The good news is that you can absolutely Bite/Bite or Tail/Tail with Extra Attack. Your natural weapons are no different than a sword - you can use them for each attack you can make. You can also Unarmed Strike/Claw/Claw for 1d8/1d6/1d6.
As for the weird shoving things away while grappled, there's little reason to do that when you can drag them at least half your speed. So do that instead.
Heated Body by RAW does only what it says it does - adds damage to attacks by the construct. Anything beyond that depends on how well you bribe your DM.
1. Natural weapons are not unarmed strikes unless they specifically say they are. The beast barb's natural weapons are not unarmed strikes. For example, you can claw for 1d6 damage or punch for 1d8 damage, you can't claw for 1d8. You also chose the weapon's form when you rage and can't change it between attacks or even between turns.
2. All your RAW answers (I think, big section).
3. a/b) Probably. c/d) No.
4. a/b) Correct. c) Even if you are moving randomly, you will never be far enough away from anything else in the sphere to end the grapple. d) They are forcefully moved, ending the grapple. e) "Engulfed" means submerged, like a bug in a drop of water. You can cast spells, but speaking ends holding breath.
The problem with the Grappled and the Restrained conditions is that they sound much more severe than what they really are. As is, Grappling is essentially holding on to someone's ankle while Restraining is holding on to the upperback of someone's coat. The Restrained condition is what really does what sounds like a grapple in everyday language, and the Incapacitated condition is what really restrains people as the word is commonly understood. Currently there is no mechanic that allows a PC to incapacitate a creature without using magic or poison (that I recall), but I believe (hope) 6e will address this issue (if that's ever going to be a thing).
I am theorycrafting a Barberor (Sorcarian?), Barbarian/Path of the Beast 9, Sorcerer/Clockwork Soul 7. Took feats Grappler, Fighting Initiate/Unarmed Fighting, and Metamagic Adept. My combat plan for this character is to create a dangerous area of effect like Sickening Radiance and hold an enemies in it. But I ran into a bunch of weird rules that I don't necessarily understand, so I wanted to get a better grasp of the RAW/RAI/RAF. I put my understanding and interpretations below. Interested in your thoughts.
1. Unarmed Fighting and Natural Weapons.
a) How do these work together to determine the damage die and damage type? I know this has been brought up a lot but I can't seem to find the official ruling. If I am unarmed I get a 1D8+str bludgeoning damage, if I have beast claws during rage then I get 1D6+str slashing damage, a bite or tail 1D8 piercing. RAW: pick a formula like with multiple unarmored defense abilities? RAI: Take the highest damage die between Unarmed Fighting and the natural weapon and use the damage type of the natural weapon, dealing 1D8+str slashing damage? RAF: Thinking of going from 1+str damage to 1d4+str damage as upgrading the damage die for unarmed attacks, Unarmed Fighting upgrades your damage die 2-3 times from 1+str to 1D6+str/1D8+str if unarmed. So it would upgrade the damage die for your natural weapons as well. A Bite would do 1D12 piercing, claws would do 1D10+str/1D12+str if unarmed, and a tail would both do 1D12+str and absorb 1D12 damage as a reaction.
b) If I take an attack action, can I make two unarmed attacks and substitute any of my natural weapons instead (Bite/Claws/Tail), or do I have to forgo multiple unarmed attacks and use the entire attack action to make a single attack with a natural weapon, or can I make two unarmed attacks but only use bite/tail once, while I can use claws for both? RAW: No clue? RAI: probably the latter, can sub any natural weapon attack for an unarmed attack but only use the natural weapon once per natural weapon, no double biting. RAF: Double biting!
2. Grappling, Shoving, & Conditions.
a) Grappled. Does the Grappled condition stack - can a creature be grappled by multiple creatures at the same time? If not, does the most recent grappler end the grapple of an earlier grappler including ending the restrained condition if the target was pinned? Or do they auto fail grappling? RAW: Yes, a creature be grappled by multiple creatures at the same time. "If multiple Effects impose the same condition on a creature, each instance of the condition has its own Duration, but the condition’s Effects don’t get worse." As many people can grapple a creature as can fit within reach. The grappled condition stacks and is applied (and ended) separately for each grappling creature. Note the grappled creature can still do literally any normal action regardless how many people are simultaneously grappling it, even if also restrained and prone. Also, if you move the creature away from others grappling it, the other grapples end - you don't bring everyone that's grappling along for the ride. RAI: Same as RAW. RAF: Not sure here. I like the idea of being able to throw off a whole dogpile of creatures grappling you with one check. Maybe something like if you succeed in breaking a grapple, make a second roll with a 5% chance to break all other grapples. And I would allow other willing creatures in the grapple chain to move with you if they want.
b) Shoving. What happens if you shove a grappled creature into a fully occupied space, so that they end the shove/push in the same place? Does the grapple end? Shoving pushes a creature 5' away from you - do you choose where it moves? Can you even choose to push a creature into a fully occupied space? RAW: You can shove a creature into a fully occupied space. But any 5' space is not usually fully occupied by an object/creature. The creature gets shoved outside of the 5' range of grapple, even if just for a moment, and the grapple ends. Note that it is being pushed, not moving, so it does not trigger an opportunity attack. RAI: Same as RAW shoving a creature away requires ending the grapple. RAF: Shoving a creature into another creature or a wall should at least do 1+str bludgeoning damage like an unarmed attack. And you should be able to choose to maintain the grapple since it was an intentional maneuver.
c) Stacking Grappled, Restrained, and Prone. Just checking if I have this right. A creature that is Grappled, Restrained, and Prone has the following debuffs:
It bothers me more than a little that a creature that has all three of these conditions can still do any action as normal. Attack with a two handed weapon, draw and aim a ranged two-handed weapon, cast a spell with somatic and verbal components, etc. Still making STR saving throws normally despite all that. But that's RAW/RAI. RAF I would hope some situational penalty would be assessed. I wish there was a tier list like Exhaustion where the more tangled up something is, the closer to being effectively Paralyzed it becomes.
d) Grappling. How many creatures can I grapple and pin/restrain at the same time? RAW/RAI: As many as I can reach, as long as I have a free hand. RAF: I don't usually think of realism as fun, but sometimes magically being able to simultaneously pin or move around eight creatures at the same time breaks immersion beyond my "it's the magic of your spirit" bounderies. I think some link to other conditions like not being able to grapple while restrained or to encumbrance like not being able to pin more then double your carrying capacity would make more sense.
3. Heated Body. The Construct Spirit (Metal) has Heated Body, dealing 1D10 fire damage when it is touched or hit by a creature.
a) Does Heated Body deal damage in either case if the Construct Spirit (Metal) is grappling or grappled by a creature? How often? RAW: Heated body triggers once if someone tries to grapple it. RAI: Probably also that anytime a creature attempts to escape a grapple from the Construct Spirit (Metal), it procs the Heated Body damage. RAF: As RAI but also procs at the start of the grappled/grappling character's turn.
b) If I shove a creature into a Construct Spirit (Metal), does this proc Heated Body? RAW: I don't think so. RAI: Sure, why not. RAF: Oh yeah!
c) Can I move through a Construct Spirit (Metal) along with a grappled creature, breaking the grapple when I move out of the Construct Spirit (Metal)'s space and triggering Heated Body damage? RAW: No, they don't touch. RAI: Yes, they touch. RAF: You can proc it multiple times on the same movement action if you still have movement, lol.
d) If a Watery Sphere is engulfing a Construct Spirit (Metal), do other engulfed creatures take damage from Heated Body, and how often? (I know these are both concentration spells and I couldn't cast both myself, but others could cast watery sphere.) RAW/RAI: No, creatures inside the Watery Sphere primarily occupy the square they were rammed with or the corresponding space where the sphere originated on top of them(?). But if this puts multiple creatures in the same space, they are still not touching regardless of size, and it's up to the DM to determine where they end up when the spell ends. Even if a creature and the Construct Spirit (Metal) end up in the same space prone, it does not proc Heated Body. RAF: Yes, it's a clam bake. Heat Body procs when a new creature is assimilated alongside a Construct Spirit (Metal) and again every 10' the sphere moves as the engulfed creatures bang up against each other.
4. Watery Sphere continued.
a) If I have grappled someone and engulf both of us inside Watery Sphere, does the grapple end? RAW/RAI/RAF: No. No one moves, and when you move you are moving together.
b) If I am engulfed in a Watery Sphere with another creature and grapple it, does the grapple end when the spell ends? RAW/RAI/RAF: No, being knocked Prone and taking fall damage does not end the Grappled condition, and you land in the same space as you were inside the sphere.
c) Where am I at when engulfed in a watery sphere? Is it really the space where I was originally engulfed, or randomly determined each turn? Or the center point? It just seems problematic that the four creatures it can restrain may all technically occupy the same space regardless of size. RAW: ??? RAI/RAF: Randomly determine a space for each engulfed creature each turn (this can move restrained creatures). The randomness kind of goes with the sorcerer/wild magic and it would be fun to be able to drag someone else in with lightning lure.
d) If I have grappled a creature inside a watery sphere, and that creature makes the STR save for the sphere and gets ejected, do they break the grapple? Do I get ejected with them? I think RAW the watery sphere ejects them and that counts as an effect to end the grapple. RAI I don't know. RAF would be that they had to break a grapple first before being able to escape the sphere.
e) Are creatures engulfed by the sphere considered underwater? Can creatures drown inside the sphere, or are their heads pooping out for breath every now and then? And do I understand correctly that spellcasting while underwater is by RAW up to the DM? RAW: Yes, you are "engulfed" by water, so you are underwater. You hold your breath for CON mod + 1 minutes (min. 30 seconds) then drown for CON mod rounds. Spellcasting is allowed as normal. RAI: I think the watery sphere is intended to be more like a floating whirlpool so you may be engulfed but can probably breathe. Unless you can breathe underwater, you can cast one spell as normal then start drowning. RAF: Honestly it's a toss-up. Being able to drown some creatures might be interesting (14 rounds is kind of a long time, but the option would certainly have its uses.) I wonder what happens if you surprise someone with watery sphere, or even just casting it on occupied squares. Would a creature hold it's breath, or maybe not have as long to last inside the sphere? I know, that's for the DM to decide, but I definitely overlooked this spell's potential before.
Wow, there's a lot here. I can't get to everything right now, but before we go down this road let's make sure one thing is clear:
You cannot concentrate while raging. The second you enter rage, your Sickening Radiance or Watery Sphere or whatever will end. If you want to pull off this concept, you will need a friend to do it.
As for your Beast attacks, unarmed strikes are a different thing than natural weapons. Sometimes you can use natural weapons to make unarmed strikes, like with tabaxi claws or minotaur horns, but that is not a general rule. You can only do that because the features say you can. So claws will always be 1d6, tail and bite 1d8. The good news is that you can absolutely Bite/Bite or Tail/Tail with Extra Attack. Your natural weapons are no different than a sword - you can use them for each attack you can make. You can also Unarmed Strike/Claw/Claw for 1d8/1d6/1d6.
As for the weird shoving things away while grappled, there's little reason to do that when you can drag them at least half your speed. So do that instead.
Heated Body by RAW does only what it says it does - adds damage to attacks by the construct. Anything beyond that depends on how well you bribe your DM.
My homebrew subclasses (full list here)
(Artificer) Swordmage | Glasswright | (Barbarian) Path of the Savage Embrace
(Bard) College of Dance | (Fighter) Warlord | Cannoneer
(Monk) Way of the Elements | (Ranger) Blade Dancer
(Rogue) DaggerMaster | Inquisitor | (Sorcerer) Riftwalker | Spellfist
(Warlock) The Swarm
1. Natural weapons are not unarmed strikes unless they specifically say they are. The beast barb's natural weapons are not unarmed strikes. For example, you can claw for 1d6 damage or punch for 1d8 damage, you can't claw for 1d8. You also chose the weapon's form when you rage and can't change it between attacks or even between turns.
2. All your RAW answers (I think, big section).
3. a/b) Probably. c/d) No.
4. a/b) Correct. c) Even if you are moving randomly, you will never be far enough away from anything else in the sphere to end the grapple. d) They are forcefully moved, ending the grapple. e) "Engulfed" means submerged, like a bug in a drop of water. You can cast spells, but speaking ends holding breath.
The problem with the Grappled and the Restrained conditions is that they sound much more severe than what they really are. As is, Grappling is essentially holding on to someone's ankle while Restraining is holding on to the upperback of someone's coat. The Restrained condition is what really does what sounds like a grapple in everyday language, and the Incapacitated condition is what really restrains people as the word is commonly understood. Currently there is no mechanic that allows a PC to incapacitate a creature without using magic or poison (that I recall), but I believe (hope) 6e will address this issue (if that's ever going to be a thing).