Considering how Flexible Casting lets Sorcerers convert sorcery points into spell slots and vice-versa, regaining points on a short rest would be very overpowered.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Helpful rewriter of Japanese->English translation and delver into software codebases (she/e/they)
Considering how Flexible Casting lets Sorcerers convert sorcery points into spell slots and vice-versa, regaining points on a short rest would be very overpowered.
I disagree. I have a houserule for Sorcerers that adds an additional 2nd-level feature:
Sorcerous Recovery
2nd-level Sorcerer feature
Once per day when you finish a short rest, you can recover a number of sorcery points equal to one third your sorcerer level (rounded up). For example, if you're a 4th-level sorcerer, you can recover up to two sorcery points. You regain the use of this ability whenever you finish a short or long rest.
I also replaced their capstone at 20th level, and I switched them from Slots to Spell Points like they used to use.
I mean, Sorcerers are supposed to be on par with Wizards, right? But between Magical Secrets, Eldritch Invocations and Mystic Arcana, and Rangers’ optional Primal Awareness, Sorcerers Know the least spells of any full or half caster, and are barely ahead of the 1/3 casters. Sure, they get more Cantrips, but meh. Their only real thing is Metamagic and they barely get enough Sorcery Points to use it enough to compensate for their low spell count.
Sorcerer should have short rest abilities granted by their subclass IMO...a once per short rest ability that they can use once for "free" and then do again spending points.
Examples:
Draconic Sorcerer: Once per turn when you damage a creature with an attack you can inflict and extra d8 of damage. The damage type is determined by your Draconic Ancestry. You can do this a number of times per short rest equal to your PB after which you can spend 1 SP to utilize the ability again. The damage die increases at subsiquent levels: 2d8-5th level, 3d8 11th level, 4d8 17th level, 5d8 20th level.
Wild Magic: Once per turn when you damage a creature you can wildly affect the damage type. Roll a d12 and covert all damage done by this spell to the referenced table below. You can use this ability a number of times per short rest equal to your PB after which you can spend 2 SP to utilize the ability again.
“Sorcerers have no use for the spellbooks and ancient tomes of magic lore that wizards rely on, nor do they rely on a patron to grant their spells as warlocks do.“
“Whatever their goals, sorcerers are every bit as useful to an adventuring party as wizards, making up for a comparative lack of breadth in their magical knowledge with enormous flexibility in using the spells they know.“
WotC drew the comparison in their description of the class.
I see what you are saying. All classes *should* be equally useful to an adventuring party. Could be that some people are trying to play a sorcerer as a wizard and then being unsatisfied when the class comes up short?
I see what you are saying. All classes *should* be equally useful to an adventuring party. Could be that some people are trying to play a sorcerer as a wizard and then being unsatisfied when the class comes up short?
I think its more they are overstating "enormous flexibility in using the spells they know" as you know 2 metamagic until 10th level and its generally best to pick the same 2 all the time (Twin/Quicken).
They are saying because this feature exists you won't feel "Lesser" than a wizard but most sorcerers do as wizards ALSO get flexibility in the spells they cast (See Evocation, Chrono, Enchantment, Scribes) AND still get all the features of a wizard.
Mike Mearls did a series called Happy Fun Hour where he did live D&D design work on Twitch. In one of them he talked about the Ranger and Sorcerer. Unfortunately none of the VODs are online anymore.
Two quick fixes for Sorcerer he mentioned, that won't break the game:
You get two extra spells known at 1st level
You can swap a spell known after a long rest, rather than after level up
Considering how Flexible Casting lets Sorcerers convert sorcery points into spell slots and vice-versa, regaining points on a short rest would be very overpowered.
I disagree. I have a houserule for Sorcerers that adds an additional 2nd-level feature:
Sorcerous Recovery
2nd-level Sorcerer feature
Once per day when you finish a short rest, you can recover a number of sorcery points equal to one third your sorcerer level (rounded up). For example, if you're a 4th-level sorcerer, you can recover up to two sorcery points. You regain the use of this ability whenever you finish a short or long rest.
I also replaced their capstone at 20th level, and I switched them from Slots to Spell Points like they used to use.
I mean, Sorcerers are supposed to be on par with Wizards, right? But between Magical Secrets, Eldritch Invocations and Mystic Arcana, and Rangers’ optional Primal Awareness, Sorcerers Know the least spells of any full or half caster, and are barely ahead of the 1/3 casters. Sure, they get more Cantrips, but meh. Their only real thing is Metamagic and they barely get enough Sorcery Points to use it enough to compensate for their low spell count.
But anyway, this still isn’t a Bug.
This is a great idea. I may steal for my campaigns. I love playing sorcerers and am very aware of their shortcomings. The characters I create are not the type to take pacts so I never multiclass. Our table uses the old UA rule that sorcerers can change one spell out with another spell of the same level after every short rest. It helps. Tasha's did a lot to help the class but so much of it is still DM dependent - awarding a Bloodwell Vial for instance. The new subclasses demonstrate that you can give sorcerers extra spells without breaking the game.
I see what you are saying. All classes *should* be equally useful to an adventuring party. Could be that some people are trying to play a sorcerer as a wizard and then being unsatisfied when the class comes up short?
The general niche for sorcerers is usually as blaster types, and they do have somewhat higher raw DPR than wizards, but that benefit is pretty marginal compared to the huge increase in utility wizards get.
I see what you are saying. All classes *should* be equally useful to an adventuring party. Could be that some people are trying to play a sorcerer as a wizard and then being unsatisfied when the class comes up short?
I think its more they are overstating "enormous flexibility in using the spells they know" as you know 2 metamagic until 10th level and its generally best to pick the same 2 all the time (Twin/Quicken).
They are saying because this feature exists you won't feel "Lesser" than a wizard but most sorcerers do as wizards ALSO get flexibility in the spells they cast (See Evocation, Chrono, Enchantment, Scribes) AND still get all the features of a wizard.
Well, to take a page from IamSposta's book, the class description for wizards does say they are the supreme magic-users. And let's not forget that, at their D&D roots, sorcerers are derivative of wizards.
I do agree about the metamagic, though. I see no harm in giving sorcerers access to all metamagics at once. Sorcerers are still situationally limited in which they can use and how often they can use them based on sorcery points.
Considering how Flexible Casting lets Sorcerers convert sorcery points into spell slots and vice-versa, regaining points on a short rest would be very overpowered.
I disagree. I have a houserule for Sorcerers that adds an additional 2nd-level feature:
Sorcerous Recovery
2nd-level Sorcerer feature
Once per day when you finish a short rest, you can recover a number of sorcery points equal to one third your sorcerer level (rounded up). For example, if you're a 4th-level sorcerer, you can recover up to two sorcery points. You regain the use of this ability whenever you finish a short or long rest.
I also replaced their capstone at 20th level, and I switched them from Slots to Spell Points like they used to use.
I mean, Sorcerers are supposed to be on par with Wizards, right? But between Magical Secrets, Eldritch Invocations and Mystic Arcana, and Rangers’ optional Primal Awareness, Sorcerers Know the least spells of any full or half caster, and are barely ahead of the 1/3 casters. Sure, they get more Cantrips, but meh. Their only real thing is Metamagic and they barely get enough Sorcery Points to use it enough to compensate for their low spell count.
But anyway, this still isn’t a Bug.
This is a great idea. I may steal for my campaigns. I love playing sorcerers and am very aware of their shortcomings. The characters I create are not the type to take pacts so I never multiclass. Our table uses the old UA rule that sorcerers can change one spell out with another spell of the same level after every short rest. It helps. Tasha's did a lot to help the class but so much of it is still DM dependent - awarding a Bloodwell Vial for instance. The new subclasses demonstrate that you can give sorcerers extra spells without breaking the game.
Thanks. If you’re interested, this is what I replaced their 20th-level feature with:
Magical Mastery
20th-level Sorcerer feature
You have achieved such mastery over certain spells that you can cast them at will, and have even achieved a degree of mastery over yourself.
Arcane Versatility. Choose a 1st-level spell and a 2nd-level from the sorcerer spell list. These spells do not count as known spells, and do not against your number of spells known. You can cast these spells at their lowest level without expending a spell slot. If you want to cast either spell at a higher level, you must expend a spell slot as normal. At the end of a Long Rest, you can exchange one or both of the spells you chose for different spells of the same levels from the sorcerer spell list.
Metaconcentration. When you cast a 1st-level sorcerer spell you know that requites concentration, you can spend 2 sorcery points to ignore the concentration requirement for that spell. That spell lasts for its full duration without concentration, and it does not end concentration on any other spell or ability that requires concentration. You can do this once, and regain the use of this ability whenever you finish a short or long rest.
I’m also generally inclined to give them an additional Metamagic at 3rd-level, and usually this too:
Unarmored Defense
1st-level Sorcerer feature
When you aren't wearing armor, your AC equals 10 + your Charisma modifier + your Dexterity modifier.
However, I don’t let them swap out a spell on a Long Rest, only on a Level-up. (At least until 18th-20th levels.)
Sorcerers only get the option to burn hit die during a short rest. I feel they should gain some of their lost sorcery points back as well.
-
View User Profile
-
View Posts
-
Send Message
ModeratorThis is correct, Sorcerers only regain them on a long rest.
// I am Arenlor
Developers should read This Changelog
Moderator for D&D Beyond's YouTube, Twitch, and Discord.
Considering how Flexible Casting lets Sorcerers convert sorcery points into spell slots and vice-versa, regaining points on a short rest would be very overpowered.
Helpful rewriter of Japanese->English translation and delver into software codebases (she/e/they)
I disagree. I have a houserule for Sorcerers that adds an additional 2nd-level feature:
I also replaced their capstone at 20th level, and I switched them from Slots to Spell Points like they used to use.
I mean, Sorcerers are supposed to be on par with Wizards, right? But between Magical Secrets, Eldritch Invocations and Mystic Arcana, and Rangers’ optional Primal Awareness, Sorcerers Know the least spells of any full or half caster, and are barely ahead of the 1/3 casters. Sure, they get more Cantrips, but meh. Their only real thing is Metamagic and they barely get enough Sorcery Points to use it enough to compensate for their low spell count.
But anyway, this still isn’t a Bug.
Creating Epic Boons on DDB
DDB Buyers' Guide
Hardcovers, DDB & You
Content Troubleshooting
It is worth mentioning that the D&D community has already found a solution: Sorlocks. Just saying.
That requires a dip, my class feature is for those that wish to monoclass it the whole way.
Creating Epic Boons on DDB
DDB Buyers' Guide
Hardcovers, DDB & You
Content Troubleshooting
I know. But the point still stands.
Sorcerer should have short rest abilities granted by their subclass IMO...a once per short rest ability that they can use once for "free" and then do again spending points.
Examples:
Draconic Sorcerer: Once per turn when you damage a creature with an attack you can inflict and extra d8 of damage. The damage type is determined by your Draconic Ancestry. You can do this a number of times per short rest equal to your PB after which you can spend 1 SP to utilize the ability again. The damage die increases at subsiquent levels: 2d8-5th level, 3d8 11th level, 4d8 17th level, 5d8 20th level.
Wild Magic: Once per turn when you damage a creature you can wildly affect the damage type. Roll a d12 and covert all damage done by this spell to the referenced table below. You can use this ability a number of times per short rest equal to your PB after which you can spend 2 SP to utilize the ability again.
Out of curiosity, is this your opinion, or is it spelled out somewhere?
"Not all those who wander are lost"
I was under the assumption that the classes were supposed to be more or less equal.
The question was asked in the context of cooking up homebrew to give sorcerers more functionality.
"Not all those who wander are lost"
I believe it came from a belief that sorcerers are generally less versatile/functional than wizards due to weird design limitations.
Overall I would agree as I think they overvalued what Metamagic brought to the table....especially with the limited amount they can use per day.
WotC drew the comparison in their description of the class.
Creating Epic Boons on DDB
DDB Buyers' Guide
Hardcovers, DDB & You
Content Troubleshooting
I see what you are saying. All classes *should* be equally useful to an adventuring party. Could be that some people are trying to play a sorcerer as a wizard and then being unsatisfied when the class comes up short?
"Not all those who wander are lost"
I think its more they are overstating "enormous flexibility in using the spells they know" as you know 2 metamagic until 10th level and its generally best to pick the same 2 all the time (Twin/Quicken).
They are saying because this feature exists you won't feel "Lesser" than a wizard but most sorcerers do as wizards ALSO get flexibility in the spells they cast (See Evocation, Chrono, Enchantment, Scribes) AND still get all the features of a wizard.
Mike Mearls did a series called Happy Fun Hour where he did live D&D design work on Twitch. In one of them he talked about the Ranger and Sorcerer. Unfortunately none of the VODs are online anymore.
Two quick fixes for Sorcerer he mentioned, that won't break the game:
Site Info: Wizard's ToS | Fan Content Policy | Forum Rules | Physical Books | Content Not Working | Contact Support
How To: Homebrew Rules | Create Homebrew | Snippet Codes | Tool Tips (Custom) | Rollables (Generator)
My Homebrew: Races | Subclasses | Backgrounds | Feats | Spells | Magic Items
Other: Beyond20 | Page References | Other Guides | Entitlements | Dice Randomization | Images Fix | FAQ
This is a great idea. I may steal for my campaigns. I love playing sorcerers and am very aware of their shortcomings. The characters I create are not the type to take pacts so I never multiclass. Our table uses the old UA rule that sorcerers can change one spell out with another spell of the same level after every short rest. It helps. Tasha's did a lot to help the class but so much of it is still DM dependent - awarding a Bloodwell Vial for instance. The new subclasses demonstrate that you can give sorcerers extra spells without breaking the game.
The general niche for sorcerers is usually as blaster types, and they do have somewhat higher raw DPR than wizards, but that benefit is pretty marginal compared to the huge increase in utility wizards get.
Well, to take a page from IamSposta's book, the class description for wizards does say they are the supreme magic-users. And let's not forget that, at their D&D roots, sorcerers are derivative of wizards.
I do agree about the metamagic, though. I see no harm in giving sorcerers access to all metamagics at once. Sorcerers are still situationally limited in which they can use and how often they can use them based on sorcery points.
"Not all those who wander are lost"
Thanks. If you’re interested, this is what I replaced their 20th-level feature with:
Magical Mastery
20th-level Sorcerer feature
You have achieved such mastery over certain spells that you can cast them at will, and have even achieved a degree of mastery over yourself.
Arcane Versatility. Choose a 1st-level spell and a 2nd-level from the sorcerer spell list. These spells do not count as known spells, and do not against your number of spells known. You can cast these spells at their lowest level without expending a spell slot. If you want to cast either spell at a higher level, you must expend a spell slot as normal. At the end of a Long Rest, you can exchange one or both of the spells you chose for different spells of the same levels from the sorcerer spell list.
Metaconcentration. When you cast a 1st-level sorcerer spell you know that requites concentration, you can spend 2 sorcery points to ignore the concentration requirement for that spell. That spell lasts for its full duration without concentration, and it does not end concentration on any other spell or ability that requires concentration. You can do this once, and regain the use of this ability whenever you finish a short or long rest.
I’m also generally inclined to give them an additional Metamagic at 3rd-level, and usually this too:
Unarmored Defense
1st-level Sorcerer featureWhen you aren't wearing armor, your AC equals 10 + your Charisma modifier + your Dexterity modifier.
However, I don’t let them swap out a spell on a Long Rest, only on a Level-up. (At least until 18th-20th levels.)
PS- One cannot “steal” what is freely given.
Creating Epic Boons on DDB
DDB Buyers' Guide
Hardcovers, DDB & You
Content Troubleshooting