Required spells: Create Demiplane, Plane Shift, Wall of Stone.
First acquire a tuning fork to plane-shift back to the Material Plane, then create the demiplane and enter.
Next, use wall of stone to create walls, stairs and floors for two upper levels, tripling the usable space in the demiplane, making it like a more spartan version of a Magnificent Mansion, but one that doesn't disappear.
Thereafter you can enter the demiplane for long rests in total safety, then planeshift back. And the party can decorate and furnish it however they like. And the creator can create another tuning fork for the demiplane so in the future the party can go to it without leaving an open door behind them.
The only issue I see is the imprecision of arrival location when returning via Plane shift. But based on what I've been able to find, if a permanent teleportation circle is made on an object that can be moved (such as a wooden shield that was on or was part of a floor when the permanent sigil was placed), then that item could be used to return to the exact point where the party left, provided nothing happens to the placed circle.
If anyone has any better ideas for returning to the point left, I'd love to hear them.
The return circle would have to be on something which couldn’t be stolen, or you’d have no idea where you might end up when you used it! Of course, that might be very entertaining...
And how would you get furniture through the portal? You’d have to just take the raw materials in, and then build the stuff, or bring in someone to do it for you.
If you own any livestock or other animals, you’d either have to stable them somewhere in the outside world, or experiment with Planeshift to see if it would let you hold the forepaws or -hooves of said animal, and try to bring them in with you, in which case they would sit in the house with you. And animals stink.
I think it’s an interesting idea, although the semantics might need some work.
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I live with several severe autoimmune conditions. If I don’t get back to you right away, it’s probably because I’m not feeling well.
The return circle is definitely the most at-risk aspect of the plan, though there are magical options to hide it from detection. Or if the party is in a sketchy inn, they could rent one room, barricade the door and window and hide the shield under the bed. That guarantees a safe long rest, even if they have a surprise in the morning.
Furniture could be transported via Portable Hole if one is available, or alternatively could be shrunk via Enlarge/Reduce. to pass through the entry.
I haven't had to deal with livestock in game much, though if needed, larger animals could either also be shrunk with Enlarge/Reduce, or be Polymorphed into something smaller to get them through the portal. (I've a significant amount of experience with horses and cattle, and horses aren't that bad when clean and dry, and pine shavings do wanders for the smell of their stalls. I wouldn't take cattle inside.)
Even if the animals aren't taken inside, you could store vast amounts of feed for them if needed, without risk of rot from moisture or loss to rodents.
If you're high enough level to cast the spells required to make the Mobile Home, you're not going to have problems with supplies. You can create food and water in abundance, use Unseen Servants, season things with Prestidigitation, which can also clean your clothes. You could Fabricate your furniture and furnishings. What is not clear to me is why go to all the trouble when the Magnificent Mansion spell gives you everything with less risk.
If you're high enough level to cast the spells required to make the Mobile Home, you're not going to have problems with supplies. You can create food and water in abundance, use Unseen Servants, season things with Prestidigitation, which can also clean your clothes. You could Fabricate your furniture and furnishings. What is not clear to me is why go to all the trouble when the Magnificent Mansion spell gives you everything with less risk.
The Magnificent Mansion only lasts for 24hrs at a time, and it can be dispelled from the outside if the entrance is identified, spilling the sleeping, undressed adventurers onto the ground in hostile territory. The Demiplane is 100% secure unless you leave a fork tuned to it out for someone else to get.
And there are a lot of things a party might want to have with them but don't need filling up their bags of holding. Anything from valuable statues, to spare weapons, to tanning racks for the skins of slain monsters, or even alcohol they're aging in massive barrels... there's a lot of value in having a place that still exists when you're not there.
Of course the Magnificent Mansion is like a delux hotel, but anything that you intend to still exist after the spell ends has to be carried on you, whereas the Demiplane can keep all of your other things safe in perpetuity, relieving you of the burden of carrying it all.
As for Farling's point, you don't have to have a portable teleportation circle since plane shift allows you to specify a general location... it's just a convenience if you're in the middle of something and want to pick up the next day right where you left off. And while I believe a permanent portable teleportation circle can be done R.A.W., it is of course up to the DMs to set parameters on what is allowed at their tables.
The spell Demiplane is 8th level. You've got to be 15th level to cast it, and you only ever get one 8th level spell slot without spending feats or something. I'm sure there are all kinds of ways to pick up more spell slots or what-have-you. Nothing you can do will make your Mobile Home secure. Scrying is nearly impossible to prevent, and theft is pretty hard to avoid.
It is an interesting idea, and I certainly cannot find anything that violates the rules as written. The rules as intended are questionable. The rule of fun trumps all.
And how would you get furniture through the portal? You’d have to just take the raw materials in, and then build the stuff, or bring in someone to do it for you.
Or just do what people do in real life : carry it through the door.
The portal to demiplane is a doorway fit for medium creatures. In other words, it's like a standard door used through everywhere including in real life. My standard for-humans (medium creatures) doorway to my little flat features a double divan bed, chairs, tables and wardrobes and all sorts. So, if I can do it in real life - pretty sure people can do it in D&D with magic available.
If you own any livestock or other animals, you’d either have to stable them somewhere in the outside world, or experiment with Planeshift to see if it would let you hold the forepaws or -hooves of said animal, and try to bring them in with you, in which case they would sit in the house with you. And animals stink.
Why holding forepaws or hooves? Demiplane is an open doorway. Just walk the animals through.
Maybe actually read the demiplane spell? You don't seem to understand how it works, at all.
Nothing you can do will make your Mobile Home secure. Scrying is nearly impossible to prevent, and theft is pretty hard to avoid.
What?
There is no spell that lets you scry on people in different planes of existence. And then there's the Private Sanctum spell that literally blocks all scrying.
So, given demiplane can't be scried upon by anyone not in the demiplane already and given there's magic specifically designed to block scrying -- I don't think you know what "nearly impossible" means.
And it's pretty easy to prevent theft when your home is on another plane of existence. Demiplane is basically a long-term storage vault. It's extremely difficult to steal from.
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The spell Demiplane is 8th level. You've got to be 15th level to cast it, and you only ever get one 8th level spell slot without spending feats or something. I'm sure there are all kinds of ways to pick up more spell slots or what-have-you. Nothing you can do will make your Mobile Home secure. Scrying is nearly impossible to prevent, and theft is pretty hard to avoid.
It is an interesting idea, and I certainly cannot find anything that violates the rules as written. The rules as intended are questionable. The rule of fun trumps all.
I'm curious about your assertions about spying and infiltration.
The party can Plane-Shift to their own Demiplane if they make a tuning fork for it, so they don't have to use an 8th level slot every time they go there.
Scrying doesn't work across planes.
To cast Demiplane to go to an existing Demiplane you have to be familiar with its nature/contents. I don't think you could link to a demiplane if you just know that something you're looking for is in a demiplane... so I don't think an infiltrator could get in this way.
To Plane Shift you have to have a fork tuned to the plane you're going to, precluding anyone from using that to go there unless the party loses a fork... in which case they could always create a new demiplane and move their stuff over so whoever gets the Fork will just find an empty demiplane.
A person could use a Wish to get in, but they'd suffer all of the damage and risk of performing a task beyond the parameters of an 8th level spell, including potentially permanently losing their ability to cast Wish.
So what do you determine to be the most likely means of infiltration for the would-be thieves?
Impersonate a member of the party. A simple, non-magical disguise could do it if you are not watching carefully, but I believe you are. There are creatures that change shape, shift shape, shapeshifters, or Shapechange with a spell. There are Polymorph spells. Telepaths can read the minds of you or your allies. A Doppleganger is an ideal infiltration agent. They can read your mind, look perfectly convincing, and nobody will have any reason to suspect. You could be dealing with clones or simulacra. Who can you trust?
There's no point in being this elaborate for just yourself and your stuff. Even one other person who knows about it means you have a potential leak, and once someone of importance finds out about your Mobile Home, they are going to take efforts commensurate with your own to find out what is really going on in there. Is there a plot to kill the local ruler? Is there a world wide conspiracy afoot? Are you preparing for an invasion from another plane of existence? They won't just *want* to know what you are doing, they might feel they *need* to know.
If the DM likes your idea, that's great and I wish you well. If they do not, the very gods themselves may take it upon themselves to destroy your Mobile Home and all that is contained within. They may consider you presumptuous for creating your very own personal demiplane permanently. That's their realm you are treading in. They may total your Mobile Home in a fit of pique.
Of note: This mobile home plan is just a more secure (but with less certain return location) version of the Vessel a warlock of the Genie gets, which can also provide secure comfortable rest for the full party at later levels.
Bottled Respite. As an action, you can magically vanish and enter your vessel, which remains in the space you left
Better have a *very* secure place to be in when you enter the Vessel...
I am enjoying this discussion, but even so, I keep wondering why you want this so badly. Your character is pretty much moving Heaven and Earth to make it happen, and for what? You get a nearly impossible to find fortress for you, your friends, and all of your stuff, and that's great I guess, but why go to so much trouble? Does you DM constantly attack your party when you try to rest?
And how would you get furniture through the portal? You’d have to just take the raw materials in, and then build the stuff, or bring in someone to do it for you.
Or just do what people do in real life : carry it through the door.
The portal to demiplane is a doorway fit for medium creatures. In other words, it's like a standard door used through everywhere including in real life. My standard for-humans (medium creatures) doorway to my little flat features a double divan bed, chairs, tables and wardrobes and all sorts. So, if I can do it in real life - pretty sure people can do it in D&D with magic available.
If you own any livestock or other animals, you’d either have to stable them somewhere in the outside world, or experiment with Planeshift to see if it would let you hold the forepaws or -hooves of said animal, and try to bring them in with you, in which case they would sit in the house with you. And animals stink.
Why holding forepaws or hooves? Demiplane is an open doorway. Just walk the animals through.
Maybe actually read the demiplane spell? You don't seem to understand how it works, at all.
Nothing you can do will make your Mobile Home secure. Scrying is nearly impossible to prevent, and theft is pretty hard to avoid.
What?
There is no spell that lets you scry on people in different planes of existence. And then there's the Private Sanctum spell that literally blocks all scrying.
So, given demiplane can't be scried upon by anyone not in the demiplane already and given there's magic specifically designed to block scrying -- I don't think you know what "nearly impossible" means.
And it's pretty easy to prevent theft when your home is on another plane of existence. Demiplane is basically a long-term storage vault. It's extremely difficult to steal from.
I did read Demiplane. I also read Plane Shift, which requires creatures to be teleported while all holding hands. If we’re discussing Plane Shift (which I was), then you would need to “hold hands” with all the living creatures you want to teleport, since the idea seems to be to cast Plane Shift in order to access the Demiplane. And as for furniture, I was assuming that the occupants would be using medieval-sized doorways, and medieval-sized furniture, which are incompatible. For many real-world centuries, if a wealthy person wanted real, good-quality furniture inside a castle room, they had to have the materials brought in, and the furniture constructed inside the room, once the materials were inside.
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I live with several severe autoimmune conditions. If I don’t get back to you right away, it’s probably because I’m not feeling well.
The return circle is definitely the most at-risk aspect of the plan, though there are magical options to hide it from detection. Or if the party is in a sketchy inn, they could rent one room, barricade the door and window and hide the shield under the bed. That guarantees a safe long rest, even if they have a surprise in the morning.
Furniture could be transported via Portable Hole if one is available, or alternatively could be shrunk via Enlarge/Reduce. to pass through the entry.
I haven't had to deal with livestock in game much, though if needed, larger animals could either also be shrunk with Enlarge/Reduce, or be Polymorphed into something smaller to get them through the portal. (I've a significant amount of experience with horses and cattle, and horses aren't that bad when clean and dry, and pine shavings do wanders for the smell of their stalls. I wouldn't take cattle inside.)
Even if the animals aren't taken inside, you could store vast amounts of feed for them if needed, without risk of rot from moisture or loss to rodents.
I hadn’t thought of a portable hole. And the pine shavings idea is interesting. My own experience is with goats, ducks, and geese; you’re not supposed to use pine shavings for bedding ducks and geese, and we can’t afford to buy enough pine shavings for bedding the goats (they’re pretty expensive around here for some reason). So I guess the real question is, where are you going to get all those pine shavings? 😉
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I live with several severe autoimmune conditions. If I don’t get back to you right away, it’s probably because I’m not feeling well.
Bottled Respite requires "while you are touching the vessel," so yes, most often its going to be on the material plane and drop in place. Whether wandering monsters and foes are really likely to harm your vessel, or even pick it up and interact with it, probably comes down to DM and circumstance a little bit, though I don't see why you couldn't be hiding it/burying it as part of the process of touching it. Or, Sovereign Glue it to an Immovable Rod!
Another valid use of the Mobile Home is that it turns almost any journey into a one-day trip. Even without a teleportation circle.
Go home for the night, long rest, then plane shift to wherever you want to go, arriving in the general vicinity of your specified destination, one spell down, but otherwise completely fresh.
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Required spells: Create Demiplane, Plane Shift, Wall of Stone.
First acquire a tuning fork to plane-shift back to the Material Plane, then create the demiplane and enter.
Next, use wall of stone to create walls, stairs and floors for two upper levels, tripling the usable space in the demiplane, making it like a more spartan version of a Magnificent Mansion, but one that doesn't disappear.
Thereafter you can enter the demiplane for long rests in total safety, then planeshift back. And the party can decorate and furnish it however they like. And the creator can create another tuning fork for the demiplane so in the future the party can go to it without leaving an open door behind them.
The only issue I see is the imprecision of arrival location when returning via Plane shift. But based on what I've been able to find, if a permanent teleportation circle is made on an object that can be moved (such as a wooden shield that was on or was part of a floor when the permanent sigil was placed), then that item could be used to return to the exact point where the party left, provided nothing happens to the placed circle.
If anyone has any better ideas for returning to the point left, I'd love to hear them.
The return circle would have to be on something which couldn’t be stolen, or you’d have no idea where you might end up when you used it! Of course, that might be very entertaining...
And how would you get furniture through the portal? You’d have to just take the raw materials in, and then build the stuff, or bring in someone to do it for you.
If you own any livestock or other animals, you’d either have to stable them somewhere in the outside world, or experiment with Planeshift to see if it would let you hold the forepaws or -hooves of said animal, and try to bring them in with you, in which case they would sit in the house with you. And animals stink.
I think it’s an interesting idea, although the semantics might need some work.
I live with several severe autoimmune conditions. If I don’t get back to you right away, it’s probably because I’m not feeling well.
The return circle is definitely the most at-risk aspect of the plan, though there are magical options to hide it from detection. Or if the party is in a sketchy inn, they could rent one room, barricade the door and window and hide the shield under the bed. That guarantees a safe long rest, even if they have a surprise in the morning.
Furniture could be transported via Portable Hole if one is available, or alternatively could be shrunk via Enlarge/Reduce. to pass through the entry.
I haven't had to deal with livestock in game much, though if needed, larger animals could either also be shrunk with Enlarge/Reduce, or be Polymorphed into something smaller to get them through the portal. (I've a significant amount of experience with horses and cattle, and horses aren't that bad when clean and dry, and pine shavings do wanders for the smell of their stalls. I wouldn't take cattle inside.)
Even if the animals aren't taken inside, you could store vast amounts of feed for them if needed, without risk of rot from moisture or loss to rodents.
And this assumes that you can get the DM to agree that you can have a portable teleportation circle...
If you're high enough level to cast the spells required to make the Mobile Home, you're not going to have problems with supplies. You can create food and water in abundance, use Unseen Servants, season things with Prestidigitation, which can also clean your clothes. You could Fabricate your furniture and furnishings. What is not clear to me is why go to all the trouble when the Magnificent Mansion spell gives you everything with less risk.
<Insert clever signature here>
The Magnificent Mansion only lasts for 24hrs at a time, and it can be dispelled from the outside if the entrance is identified, spilling the sleeping, undressed adventurers onto the ground in hostile territory. The Demiplane is 100% secure unless you leave a fork tuned to it out for someone else to get.
And there are a lot of things a party might want to have with them but don't need filling up their bags of holding. Anything from valuable statues, to spare weapons, to tanning racks for the skins of slain monsters, or even alcohol they're aging in massive barrels... there's a lot of value in having a place that still exists when you're not there.
Of course the Magnificent Mansion is like a delux hotel, but anything that you intend to still exist after the spell ends has to be carried on you, whereas the Demiplane can keep all of your other things safe in perpetuity, relieving you of the burden of carrying it all.
As for Farling's point, you don't have to have a portable teleportation circle since plane shift allows you to specify a general location... it's just a convenience if you're in the middle of something and want to pick up the next day right where you left off. And while I believe a permanent portable teleportation circle can be done R.A.W., it is of course up to the DMs to set parameters on what is allowed at their tables.
The spell Demiplane is 8th level. You've got to be 15th level to cast it, and you only ever get one 8th level spell slot without spending feats or something. I'm sure there are all kinds of ways to pick up more spell slots or what-have-you. Nothing you can do will make your Mobile Home secure. Scrying is nearly impossible to prevent, and theft is pretty hard to avoid.
It is an interesting idea, and I certainly cannot find anything that violates the rules as written. The rules as intended are questionable. The rule of fun trumps all.
<Insert clever signature here>
Or just do what people do in real life : carry it through the door.
The portal to demiplane is a doorway fit for medium creatures. In other words, it's like a standard door used through everywhere including in real life. My standard for-humans (medium creatures) doorway to my little flat features a double divan bed, chairs, tables and wardrobes and all sorts. So, if I can do it in real life - pretty sure people can do it in D&D with magic available.
Why holding forepaws or hooves? Demiplane is an open doorway. Just walk the animals through.
Maybe actually read the demiplane spell? You don't seem to understand how it works, at all.
What?
There is no spell that lets you scry on people in different planes of existence. And then there's the Private Sanctum spell that literally blocks all scrying.
So, given demiplane can't be scried upon by anyone not in the demiplane already and given there's magic specifically designed to block scrying -- I don't think you know what "nearly impossible" means.
And it's pretty easy to prevent theft when your home is on another plane of existence. Demiplane is basically a long-term storage vault. It's extremely difficult to steal from.
Click ✨ HERE ✨ For My Youtube Videos featuring Guides, Tips & Tricks for using D&D Beyond.
Need help with Homebrew? Check out ✨ this FAQ/Guide thread ✨ by IamSposta.
I'm curious about your assertions about spying and infiltration.
The party can Plane-Shift to their own Demiplane if they make a tuning fork for it, so they don't have to use an 8th level slot every time they go there.
Scrying doesn't work across planes.
To cast Demiplane to go to an existing Demiplane you have to be familiar with its nature/contents. I don't think you could link to a demiplane if you just know that something you're looking for is in a demiplane... so I don't think an infiltrator could get in this way.
To Plane Shift you have to have a fork tuned to the plane you're going to, precluding anyone from using that to go there unless the party loses a fork... in which case they could always create a new demiplane and move their stuff over so whoever gets the Fork will just find an empty demiplane.
A person could use a Wish to get in, but they'd suffer all of the damage and risk of performing a task beyond the parameters of an 8th level spell, including potentially permanently losing their ability to cast Wish.
So what do you determine to be the most likely means of infiltration for the would-be thieves?
Impersonate a member of the party. A simple, non-magical disguise could do it if you are not watching carefully, but I believe you are. There are creatures that change shape, shift shape, shapeshifters, or Shapechange with a spell. There are Polymorph spells. Telepaths can read the minds of you or your allies. A Doppleganger is an ideal infiltration agent. They can read your mind, look perfectly convincing, and nobody will have any reason to suspect. You could be dealing with clones or simulacra. Who can you trust?
There's no point in being this elaborate for just yourself and your stuff. Even one other person who knows about it means you have a potential leak, and once someone of importance finds out about your Mobile Home, they are going to take efforts commensurate with your own to find out what is really going on in there. Is there a plot to kill the local ruler? Is there a world wide conspiracy afoot? Are you preparing for an invasion from another plane of existence? They won't just *want* to know what you are doing, they might feel they *need* to know.
If the DM likes your idea, that's great and I wish you well. If they do not, the very gods themselves may take it upon themselves to destroy your Mobile Home and all that is contained within. They may consider you presumptuous for creating your very own personal demiplane permanently. That's their realm you are treading in. They may total your Mobile Home in a fit of pique.
<Insert clever signature here>
Of note: This mobile home plan is just a more secure (but with less certain return location) version of the Vessel a warlock of the Genie gets, which can also provide secure comfortable rest for the full party at later levels.
Better have a *very* secure place to be in when you enter the Vessel...
I am enjoying this discussion, but even so, I keep wondering why you want this so badly. Your character is pretty much moving Heaven and Earth to make it happen, and for what? You get a nearly impossible to find fortress for you, your friends, and all of your stuff, and that's great I guess, but why go to so much trouble? Does you DM constantly attack your party when you try to rest?
<Insert clever signature here>
It's weird and overly expensive and elaborate, but I like it. This is exactly the kind of stuff my group enjoys doing.
My homebrew subclasses (full list here)
(Artificer) Swordmage | Glasswright | (Barbarian) Path of the Savage Embrace
(Bard) College of Dance | (Fighter) Warlord | Cannoneer
(Monk) Way of the Elements | (Ranger) Blade Dancer
(Rogue) DaggerMaster | Inquisitor | (Sorcerer) Riftwalker | Spellfist
(Warlock) The Swarm
I did read Demiplane. I also read Plane Shift, which requires creatures to be teleported while all holding hands. If we’re discussing Plane Shift (which I was), then you would need to “hold hands” with all the living creatures you want to teleport, since the idea seems to be to cast Plane Shift in order to access the Demiplane. And as for furniture, I was assuming that the occupants would be using medieval-sized doorways, and medieval-sized furniture, which are incompatible. For many real-world centuries, if a wealthy person wanted real, good-quality furniture inside a castle room, they had to have the materials brought in, and the furniture constructed inside the room, once the materials were inside.
I live with several severe autoimmune conditions. If I don’t get back to you right away, it’s probably because I’m not feeling well.
I hadn’t thought of a portable hole. And the pine shavings idea is interesting. My own experience is with goats, ducks, and geese; you’re not supposed to use pine shavings for bedding ducks and geese, and we can’t afford to buy enough pine shavings for bedding the goats (they’re pretty expensive around here for some reason). So I guess the real question is, where are you going to get all those pine shavings? 😉
I live with several severe autoimmune conditions. If I don’t get back to you right away, it’s probably because I’m not feeling well.
Bottled Respite requires "while you are touching the vessel," so yes, most often its going to be on the material plane and drop in place. Whether wandering monsters and foes are really likely to harm your vessel, or even pick it up and interact with it, probably comes down to DM and circumstance a little bit, though I don't see why you couldn't be hiding it/burying it as part of the process of touching it. Or, Sovereign Glue it to an Immovable Rod!
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I'm going to make this way harder than it needs to be.
Another valid use of the Mobile Home is that it turns almost any journey into a one-day trip. Even without a teleportation circle.
Go home for the night, long rest, then plane shift to wherever you want to go, arriving in the general vicinity of your specified destination, one spell down, but otherwise completely fresh.