I'm interested in making a character who uses the lance as his weapon of choice. The catch is that I want him to be able to use it while on foot and treat it like a great spear. So, I'm interested in hearing if anyone else has done this before or if anyone in general has any suggestions for the build.
The only thing I can see that I think the build must have is 2 levels of rogue to disengage as a bonus action so you won't have to worry so much about having disadvantage to attack those pesky enemies who like to get close. Otherwise, I'm thinking fighter is a good choice, though I suppose any heavy melee type of character would do. Unfortunately the only fighting style that seems like it would be compatible with this build is going to be the Defense one. I've also looked at feats and Savage Attacker and Charge seem like the best options, though Sentinel might be good enough just for being able to keep your enemies from getting close. Though the other benefits of it are pretty weak when used with the lance.
Currently I'm considering a Human Fighter at first level with Defense fighting style and probably Sentinel for the variant Human feat. Then going straight into two levels of Rogue. This does mean that I will have to have decent Dex on an otherwise non-Dex build, but I'm not seeing any other good options for disengaging foes who make it adjacent at the moment. So other suggestions and thoughts are welcome. Anything UA is also appreciated as I forget how much of it is out there. (Anyone can link me to a comprehensive list of the UA material?)
I originally was playing this type of build with the Mystic take 2 using the Immortal Order, but the new Mystic doesn't look like as good of a fit since the Immortal loses his armor and weapon proficiencies. What a bummer.
I think a Kensei monk might be pretty cool with a lance. By 4th level you can jump off cliffs on top of your enemies. You'd be a Final Fantasy Dragoon:
The revised Kensei can't use anything with "special" - So I guess they're out. Woulda been pretty cool though.
I like the idea, but I'd probably recommend using a pike and calling it a lance, because the lance has DisAdv to attack targets within 5 feet.
This means you move 10 feet to be in range of the enemy, and attack. They can move within 5 feet to attack you. Now you have to step 5' back, giving them an AoO, to attack without DisAdv.
“It is a better world. A place where we are responsible for our actions, where we can be kind to one another because we want to and because it is the right thing to do instead of being frightened into behaving by the threat of divine punishment.” ― Oramis, Eldest by Christopher Paolini.
I think a Kensei monk might be pretty cool with a lance. By 4th level you can jump off cliffs on top of your enemies. You'd be a Final Fantasy Dragoon:
The revised Kensei can't use anything with "special" - So I guess they're out. Woulda been pretty cool though.
They also can't use heavy weapons anymore either, so you can't use any of the good spear-like weapons.
“It is a better world. A place where we are responsible for our actions, where we can be kind to one another because we want to and because it is the right thing to do instead of being frightened into behaving by the threat of divine punishment.” ― Oramis, Eldest by Christopher Paolini.
I like the idea, but I'd probably recommend using a pike and calling it a lance, because the lance has DisAdv to attack targets within 5 feet.
This means you move 10 feet to be in range of the enemy, and attack. They can move within 5 feet to attack you. Now you have to step 5' back, giving them an AoO, to attack without DisAdv.
This is the reason for taking 2 levels of rogue. ;)
Being able to disengage as a bonus action is critical for using the lance. Admittedly, using a pike instead would open up plenty of other options such as polearm master or great-weapon master and allows you to actually make use of the full sentinel feat. Also allows you to choose great-weapon fighting style if you chose. But of course, I would loose the quirkiness of the build! I like trying to see how usable strange builds can be in the game. Perhaps I am a little strange in that way, but It's a fun exercise for my brain and lets me get that much more joy from browsing all the options in the game. :D
I think a Kensei monk might be pretty cool with a lance. By 4th level you can jump off cliffs on top of your enemies. You'd be a Final Fantasy Dragoon:
The revised Kensei can't use anything with "special" - So I guess they're out. Woulda been pretty cool though.
They also can't use heavy weapons anymore either, so you can't use any of the good spear-like weapons.
Monks were actually one thing I had considered, particularly with their step of the wind ability to disengage. In the end, the limited use of ki points combined with the inability to properly wield a lance caused me to cut them from my list of options. (Side note: I plan on working on my Monk/Bladesinger character with the updated Kensei option. It might prove fairly viable...)
Also: Thanks for the Class link. I wonder if you could build it as an archetype for an existing class easier than making it into a separate class though. I'll be sure to check out that class regardless as FF was a partial inspiration for building this character.
The Legionnaire archetype works well with any class that can use a shield. But as far as the Lacer itself, it would be more difficult to fit it in as an archetype.
If I were to do it, I'd say it's a fighter archetype and I'd have Lancer's Spear say something along the lines of "The following weapons are considered Lancer weapons for purposes of your Lancer features: halberd, lance, trident, spear, and javelin." And then replace all instances of "weapons you are proficient in" with "Lancer Weapons".
Level 3 gives you Lancer's Spear and Lunge Attack though instead of spending hit dice for extra damage, I might say expend the use of your second wind to deal 1d10 extra damage (that way it feels more like a fighter subclass and it's a regenerating resource albeit only during short rests)
Level 7 would be Forceful Lunge
Level 10 would be a combination of the first paragraph of Friend of the Sky feature and the entire Quick Jump feature (I'd keep the name Friend of the Sky)
Level 15 would be Polearm Precision
And level 18 would be the first tier of the Powerful Lunge feature. If you decide to use the Second Wind variant for the extra damage, replace the "up to 3 hit dice" part with "1d10 + half your lancer level (rounded down)" or you could just give a second use of Second Wind for lunge attacks: "If the first time you use Second Wind is for a Lunge Attack, you may use it again before needing to finish a short or long rest". This way you're getting two uses per short rest, but not getting to use the healing portion of Second Wind twice (and not getting it if you've already used Second Wind to heal).
Since this is all off the top of my head with no playtesting at all, I'm not sure how it will perform (especially with Action Surge)
“It is a better world. A place where we are responsible for our actions, where we can be kind to one another because we want to and because it is the right thing to do instead of being frightened into behaving by the threat of divine punishment.” ― Oramis, Eldest by Christopher Paolini.
The purpose of the hit dice expenditure for more damage (or Second Wind if you decide to go that route) was because originally my 3e Lancer was built to deal extra damage in the form of falling damage (imagine how high up Kain jumps before smashing down). Because he was falling, the lancer had to take SOME falling damage, though through leveling up and the Friend of the Sky feature, he gradually took less damage, while the enemy still took full damage.
With lunge attack, I didn't want to lose the idea of sacrificing your health to deal more damage, but I also didn't want to deal with falling damage rules or forcing you to choose between taking damage or dealing damage. After all, if you jump the enemy and then take a boatload of damage and the enemy gets to act before anyone else, you (and therefore your party) can be totally screwed. The idea was always to leap into combat, not to stay back and make sure you know the initiative order first. But, at the same time, I didn't want Lunge Attacks to be overly powerful, so I thought having a limited resource (like spell slots or Superiority Dice) would restrict that usage a bit.
So instead, it's as if the Lancer is expending extra energy to grant himself more power (in the form of hit dice or Second Wind usage). Or like he's draining his own reserves to defeat his foe. You are still suffering physically, but not in the same way that you would be if you were actually hit by an attack.
“It is a better world. A place where we are responsible for our actions, where we can be kind to one another because we want to and because it is the right thing to do instead of being frightened into behaving by the threat of divine punishment.” ― Oramis, Eldest by Christopher Paolini.
Instead of the rogue levels, why not get the mobile feat?
I think the issue this build has to deal with a lot is starting their turn adjacent to someone and needing to back up before attacking. Mobile only lets you avoid OAs after you've attacked.
It's too bad Lance doesn't qualify for Polearm Mastery, because that plus Sentinel could keep stuff from moving adjacent in the first place. You could also just try to rely on Shove to move enemies back, but it won't work on Huge+ enemies.
I've been toying with building a lancer that is a horizon walker ranger. Before you attack, you get to teleport so you don't have disadvantage anymore. It's a pretty long commitment (11 levels in horizon walker), and unless your DM lets you ride a phase spider as a mount, you're going to have to wield the lance with 2 hands. It's definitely an NPC I'm throwing at my players, though, phase spider included.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
To post a comment, please login or register a new account.
I'm interested in making a character who uses the lance as his weapon of choice. The catch is that I want him to be able to use it while on foot and treat it like a great spear. So, I'm interested in hearing if anyone else has done this before or if anyone in general has any suggestions for the build.
The only thing I can see that I think the build must have is 2 levels of rogue to disengage as a bonus action so you won't have to worry so much about having disadvantage to attack those pesky enemies who like to get close. Otherwise, I'm thinking fighter is a good choice, though I suppose any heavy melee type of character would do. Unfortunately the only fighting style that seems like it would be compatible with this build is going to be the Defense one. I've also looked at feats and Savage Attacker and Charge seem like the best options, though Sentinel might be good enough just for being able to keep your enemies from getting close. Though the other benefits of it are pretty weak when used with the lance.
Currently I'm considering a Human Fighter at first level with Defense fighting style and probably Sentinel for the variant Human feat. Then going straight into two levels of Rogue. This does mean that I will have to have decent Dex on an otherwise non-Dex build, but I'm not seeing any other good options for disengaging foes who make it adjacent at the moment. So other suggestions and thoughts are welcome. Anything UA is also appreciated as I forget how much of it is out there. (Anyone can link me to a comprehensive list of the UA material?)
I originally was playing this type of build with the Mystic take 2 using the Immortal Order, but the new Mystic doesn't look like as good of a fit since the Immortal loses his armor and weapon proficiencies. What a bummer.
I think a Kensei monk might be pretty cool with a lance. By 4th level you can jump off cliffs on top of your enemies. You'd be a Final Fantasy Dragoon:
The revised Kensei can't use anything with "special" - So I guess they're out. Woulda been pretty cool though.
Site Rules & Guidelines --- Focused Feedback Mega Threads --- Staff Quotes --- Homebrew Tutorial --- Pricing FAQ
Please feel free to message either Sorce or another moderator if you have any concerns.
I like the idea, but I'd probably recommend using a pike and calling it a lance, because the lance has DisAdv to attack targets within 5 feet.
This means you move 10 feet to be in range of the enemy, and attack. They can move within 5 feet to attack you. Now you have to step 5' back, giving them an AoO, to attack without DisAdv.
If you want, I've got a Lancer build in the DM's Guild (the WotC sponsored website). Below is a link to my post on the forums about it:
http://www.dndbeyond.com/forums/dungeons-dragons-discussion/dungeon-masters-guild/2463-lancer-character-option-class-archetype-pay-what
It's pay what you want, meaning you don't have to give me anything (I mostly think it's cool that people might actually use my creation in a game).
Click Here to Download my Lancer Class w/ Dragoon and Legionnaire Archetypes via DM's Guild - Pay What You Want
Click Here to Download the Mind Flayer: Thoon Hulk converted from 4e via DM's Guild
“It is a better world. A place where we are responsible for our actions, where we can be kind to one another because we want to and because it is the right thing to do instead of being frightened into behaving by the threat of divine punishment.” ― Oramis, Eldest by Christopher Paolini.
Click Here to Download my Lancer Class w/ Dragoon and Legionnaire Archetypes via DM's Guild - Pay What You Want
Click Here to Download the Mind Flayer: Thoon Hulk converted from 4e via DM's Guild
“It is a better world. A place where we are responsible for our actions, where we can be kind to one another because we want to and because it is the right thing to do instead of being frightened into behaving by the threat of divine punishment.” ― Oramis, Eldest by Christopher Paolini.
The Legionnaire archetype works well with any class that can use a shield. But as far as the Lacer itself, it would be more difficult to fit it in as an archetype.
If I were to do it, I'd say it's a fighter archetype and I'd have Lancer's Spear say something along the lines of "The following weapons are considered Lancer weapons for purposes of your Lancer features: halberd, lance, trident, spear, and javelin." And then replace all instances of "weapons you are proficient in" with "Lancer Weapons".
Level 3 gives you Lancer's Spear and Lunge Attack though instead of spending hit dice for extra damage, I might say expend the use of your second wind to deal 1d10 extra damage (that way it feels more like a fighter subclass and it's a regenerating resource albeit only during short rests)
Level 7 would be Forceful Lunge
Level 10 would be a combination of the first paragraph of Friend of the Sky feature and the entire Quick Jump feature (I'd keep the name Friend of the Sky)
Level 15 would be Polearm Precision
And level 18 would be the first tier of the Powerful Lunge feature. If you decide to use the Second Wind variant for the extra damage, replace the "up to 3 hit dice" part with "1d10 + half your lancer level (rounded down)" or you could just give a second use of Second Wind for lunge attacks: "If the first time you use Second Wind is for a Lunge Attack, you may use it again before needing to finish a short or long rest". This way you're getting two uses per short rest, but not getting to use the healing portion of Second Wind twice (and not getting it if you've already used Second Wind to heal).
Since this is all off the top of my head with no playtesting at all, I'm not sure how it will perform (especially with Action Surge)
Click Here to Download my Lancer Class w/ Dragoon and Legionnaire Archetypes via DM's Guild - Pay What You Want
Click Here to Download the Mind Flayer: Thoon Hulk converted from 4e via DM's Guild
“It is a better world. A place where we are responsible for our actions, where we can be kind to one another because we want to and because it is the right thing to do instead of being frightened into behaving by the threat of divine punishment.” ― Oramis, Eldest by Christopher Paolini.
The purpose of the hit dice expenditure for more damage (or Second Wind if you decide to go that route) was because originally my 3e Lancer was built to deal extra damage in the form of falling damage (imagine how high up Kain jumps before smashing down). Because he was falling, the lancer had to take SOME falling damage, though through leveling up and the Friend of the Sky feature, he gradually took less damage, while the enemy still took full damage.
With lunge attack, I didn't want to lose the idea of sacrificing your health to deal more damage, but I also didn't want to deal with falling damage rules or forcing you to choose between taking damage or dealing damage. After all, if you jump the enemy and then take a boatload of damage and the enemy gets to act before anyone else, you (and therefore your party) can be totally screwed. The idea was always to leap into combat, not to stay back and make sure you know the initiative order first. But, at the same time, I didn't want Lunge Attacks to be overly powerful, so I thought having a limited resource (like spell slots or Superiority Dice) would restrict that usage a bit.
So instead, it's as if the Lancer is expending extra energy to grant himself more power (in the form of hit dice or Second Wind usage). Or like he's draining his own reserves to defeat his foe. You are still suffering physically, but not in the same way that you would be if you were actually hit by an attack.
Click Here to Download my Lancer Class w/ Dragoon and Legionnaire Archetypes via DM's Guild - Pay What You Want
Click Here to Download the Mind Flayer: Thoon Hulk converted from 4e via DM's Guild
“It is a better world. A place where we are responsible for our actions, where we can be kind to one another because we want to and because it is the right thing to do instead of being frightened into behaving by the threat of divine punishment.” ― Oramis, Eldest by Christopher Paolini.
If you go minotaur, you can headbutt them out of reach and Lance them, but that requires ua
Instead of the rogue levels, why not get the mobile feat?
Why not just play as a Goblin Lancer?
I think the issue this build has to deal with a lot is starting their turn adjacent to someone and needing to back up before attacking. Mobile only lets you avoid OAs after you've attacked.
It's too bad Lance doesn't qualify for Polearm Mastery, because that plus Sentinel could keep stuff from moving adjacent in the first place. You could also just try to rely on Shove to move enemies back, but it won't work on Huge+ enemies.
My homebrew subclasses (full list here)
(Artificer) Swordmage | Glasswright | (Barbarian) Path of the Savage Embrace
(Bard) College of Dance | (Fighter) Warlord | Cannoneer
(Monk) Way of the Elements | (Ranger) Blade Dancer
(Rogue) DaggerMaster | Inquisitor | (Sorcerer) Riftwalker | Spellfist
(Warlock) The Swarm
I've been toying with building a lancer that is a horizon walker ranger. Before you attack, you get to teleport so you don't have disadvantage anymore. It's a pretty long commitment (11 levels in horizon walker), and unless your DM lets you ride a phase spider as a mount, you're going to have to wield the lance with 2 hands. It's definitely an NPC I'm throwing at my players, though, phase spider included.