This subclass doesn’t make sense to me. If the echo is not a creature, but it can attack like a creature, then that should be classified as an illusion. Yes, I understand the premise that the echo is a manifestation of an alternate reality version of the knight. I understand that, but the echo is an object, not a creature; therefore, it cannot attack in the same manner that a painting on a wall cannot attack you. Furthermore, the echo cannot open a door, but it can attack. It appears the subclass is inconsistent with how the echo interacts with the knight’s reality. If the knight can teleport (Echo style from League of Legends, of which this subclass reeks) and make an actual physical attack on a living creature, why can’t the knight teleport and interact with an inanimate object and open a door?
For me, in my campaign, if I allow a player to use this, it is going to be an illusion and if it attempts to do damage to a living being, then a saving throw is granted to see through the illusion.
Except the echo doesn't attack like a creature. YOU attack through the Echo. You are the creature attacking. The echo takes no actions of its own.
Trying to get your physical content on Beyond is like going to Microsoft and saying "I have a physical Playstation disk, give me a digital Xbox version!"
Above it’s said you can’t use the echo to teleport 1000’ because you can’t do anything but move while looking through it but the echo isn’t destroyed until the end of the knight’s turn and moving and echo is free and leaving the sight is free. So couldn’t you move it a 1000’ while inside it and then leave it’s sight and bonus action swap places, end your turn and then your echo is destroyed?
RAW, yes, there is noting stopping you from swapping while using Echo Avatar. However, it has already been stated by Crawford that this is not intended, and will be corrected in future printings.
The question that prompted the answer about Echo Avatar is important. It was a direct response to the question of the 1000' teleport. RAW, yes. RAI, no.
Naif's quarantined clone @megabeatz98
@JeremyECrawford@matthewmercer question about the echo knight, can you switch places with the echo if you are using the echo avatar feature?
Jeremy Crawford @JeremyECrawford
The intent is that you can't do anything with the Echo Knight's echo while using Echo Avatar, other than scout with it. The text stating that intent is mysteriously missing from the book. We'll fix it in a future printing! Sorry about the confusion. #DnD
Say the echo is under water and the knight is on normal ground. If the knight choose to attack from the echo and he (knight) has site of the target, is the attack rolled normal or at disadvantage?
Say the echo is under water and the knight is on normal ground. If the knight choose to attack from the echo and he (knight) has site of the target, is the attack rolled normal or at disadvantage?
disadvantage following the normal rules for underwater combat because *you* are still making the attack, not the echo.
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Formerly Devan Avalon.
Trying to get your physical content on Beyond is like going to Microsoft and saying "I have a physical Playstation disk, give me a digital Xbox version!"
Wouldn't that mean normal attack then? The Knight is not in water, the Echo is. That said, the Knight attacks from the Echo's space, so perhaps it would be at disadvantage.
Wouldn't that mean normal attack then? The Knight is not in water, the Echo is. That said, the Knight attacks from the Echo's space, so perhaps it would be at disadvantage.
The echo doesn't make any attacks. *You* do. And so when you make an attack originating from the echo's space, you are subject to the same rules as normal underwater combat.
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Formerly Devan Avalon.
Trying to get your physical content on Beyond is like going to Microsoft and saying "I have a physical Playstation disk, give me a digital Xbox version!"
Who said the Echo makes an attack? The Knight makes the attacks from the Echo's space. I think we are in agreement.
Except you don't seem to be because "Wouldn't it be a normal attack then?" If you are making the attack from the echo's space, the environment is still affecting the attack, which means it would be subject to normal underwater rules.
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Formerly Devan Avalon.
Trying to get your physical content on Beyond is like going to Microsoft and saying "I have a physical Playstation disk, give me a digital Xbox version!"
" That said, the Knight attacks from the Echo's space, so perhaps it would be at disadvantage." What part of that do you not agree with? Perhaps? Ok, I'll withdraw the perhaps.
"This echo is a magical, translucent, gray image of you" I would presume it is not static, I think it would continue to look like you holding a bow and arrow. (you being the Echo Knight)
Except the echo doesn't attack like a creature. YOU attack through the Echo. You are the creature attacking. The echo takes no actions of its own.
Formerly Devan Avalon.
Trying to get your physical content on Beyond is like going to Microsoft and saying "I have a physical Playstation disk, give me a digital Xbox version!"
Above it’s said you can’t use the echo to teleport 1000’ because you can’t do anything but move while looking through it but the echo isn’t destroyed until the end of the knight’s turn and moving and echo is free and leaving the sight is free. So couldn’t you move it a 1000’ while inside it and then leave it’s sight and bonus action swap places, end your turn and then your echo is destroyed?
RAW, yes, there is noting stopping you from swapping while using Echo Avatar. However, it has already been stated by Crawford that this is not intended, and will be corrected in future printings.
As with everything, this is up to your DM.
That tweet doesn’t prohibit what I am saying because when you use the swap you are no longer in the avatar. And the swap says “no matter the distance”
The question that prompted the answer about Echo Avatar is important. It was a direct response to the question of the 1000' teleport. RAW, yes. RAI, no.
Is an attack via the echo considered magical?
Only if the Knight's weapon is. YOU are making the attack from the echo's location.
Can the Echo knights echo talk?
Not as written, though any DM could allow otherwise.
Please check out my homebrew, I would appreciate feedback:
Spells, Monsters, Subclasses, Races, Arcknight Class, Occultist Class, World, Enigmatic Esoterica forms
Say the echo is under water and the knight is on normal ground. If the knight choose to attack from the echo and he (knight) has site of the target, is the attack rolled normal or at disadvantage?
disadvantage following the normal rules for underwater combat because *you* are still making the attack, not the echo.
Formerly Devan Avalon.
Trying to get your physical content on Beyond is like going to Microsoft and saying "I have a physical Playstation disk, give me a digital Xbox version!"
Wouldn't that mean normal attack then? The Knight is not in water, the Echo is. That said, the Knight attacks from the Echo's space, so perhaps it would be at disadvantage.
The echo doesn't make any attacks. *You* do. And so when you make an attack originating from the echo's space, you are subject to the same rules as normal underwater combat.
Formerly Devan Avalon.
Trying to get your physical content on Beyond is like going to Microsoft and saying "I have a physical Playstation disk, give me a digital Xbox version!"
Who said the Echo makes an attack? The Knight makes the attacks from the Echo's space. I think we are in agreement.
Except you don't seem to be because "Wouldn't it be a normal attack then?" If you are making the attack from the echo's space, the environment is still affecting the attack, which means it would be subject to normal underwater rules.
Formerly Devan Avalon.
Trying to get your physical content on Beyond is like going to Microsoft and saying "I have a physical Playstation disk, give me a digital Xbox version!"
" That said, the Knight attacks from the Echo's space, so perhaps it would be at disadvantage." What part of that do you not agree with? Perhaps? Ok, I'll withdraw the perhaps.
If I summon the Echo while holding a sword, but then change my weapon into a bow and arrow... Does the echo also change to a bow and arrow?
"This echo is a magical, translucent, gray image of you" I would presume it is not static, I think it would continue to look like you holding a bow and arrow. (you being the Echo Knight)
Yes, when you attack from the echo's space, it is you that is doing the attack, with whatever weapon you are holding