I'm currently creating a new character for our next campaign. The last couple of times I've played melee characters. This time I wanted to mix things up a bit and play a Wizard. It will either be School of Divination or Enchantment, not sure yet. Right now I'm thinking about an one Lvl dip into the Cleric class (maybe Life Domain to support my party with some healing spells). My main focus would be the armor proficiencies that I would get through the Cleric.
Is this worth the delay in the Wizards spell progression?
I'm a bit scared because of the low HP und AC of the Wizard. My previous characters were all very hard to kill so this is new terrain for me. I would be happy to hear about your experiences and opinions on this topic.
Armour and stuff is nice if you want the aesthetic but a wizard has no real need of these. They use spells.
Mage Armour
Shield
Misty Step
Mirror Image
Blur
And more.
There are many defense spells you can use.
If you want healing, be a Mark of Healing halfling and get some added to your wizard spell list.
Mark of Warding Dwarf also great option.
Wizard is one of the classes that are best without multiclassing. Multiclassing delays spell progression and denies your higher level features. It's rarely worth it.
You can also consider Bladesingers - they're quite tanky. In fact if your DM is liberal with magic item choices and you go into late game, an AC of 30+ becomes a doddle.
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Click ✨ HERE ✨ For My Youtube Videos featuring Guides, Tips & Tricks for using D&D Beyond. Need help with Homebrew? Check out ✨ thisFAQ/Guide thread ✨ by IamSposta.
To play Devil's Advocate, if a wizard were to dip you probably couldn't do better than cleric. One level can give you a lot of stuff.
Several cantrips
Armor (opportunity cost is a thing - if you don't need to learn/burn spells for defense, you free up more slots for other things)
An additional feature that varies widely by domain but almost all are pretty good
The ability to prepare WIS+1 spells from the entire 1st level spell list of cleric each day - the versatility here is huge
Spell progression is really important for wizards, but you get so much here that I think a 1-level delay could be worth it depending on your role, playstyle, and tier as this is quite front-loaded. Three additional cantrips and a wide spell selection can be huge addition to a wizard's toolbox. I would not go beyond that first level unless you needed it for your character concept.
In terms of optimization, a Cleric (or even Hexblade!) can offer a LOT to a Wizard. Peace or Twilight are amazing. But even the classic Knowledge Cleric is quite good.
Armor proficiency means no need to prepare and cast Mage Armor. Means more efficient usage of Shield. Means you have more durability to position more aggressively to deploy Thunderwave or other good cone spells.
However, it’s important to reinforce that getting ASI and better spells one level later is a bit frustrating. Really depends on your mood.
You can be a Wizard getting dip in the Evocation school, and later at level 12, getting some levels in Cleric of Life Domain. Since most of the healing spells are Evocation magics, wizards can get a nice ratio of healing/curing spells, so the only annoying part is how to deal with the armor penalties when using the Wizard part of the character. Then, you can wear Leather armor to get decent AC, or else rely that score on the Dexterity.
Maybe I’m lost, but what are the benefits Evoker have by casting healing spells that are Evocation?
I see no penalties to Wizard for wearing medium armor and shield. Half-Plate is only one point behind full Plate if you have at least DEX 14.
You should see again and again the Wizard section in where explicitly says: Wizards cannot cast spells while wearing armor, or elese they get penalized by the non-PROFICIENCY skill, plus the annoyance/disturbance it provokes while wearing those. It seems D&D developers deeply hate the Wizard class, so the only way they nerfed this class is applying this rule. Something similar happens to the Druids, but I supose you knew it yet. Those developers also forgot to implement a skill that could make the Wizards a bit more professionals in Arcana Recovery, at levels 18 or 20. I mean, ( at those levels ) Wizards should get something like Arcana Mastery, which it could makes them recover more spells quickier and, perhaps let them cast spells without the Somatic part, or the Material part.
I know this rule, dude. That’s why we are recommending in this very topic here for Wizards to multiclass Clerics (or Hexblade or Artificer) in order to get Armor proficiency.
To be honest, I don’t think D&D Developers hate Wizards. It’s a known fact that Wizard (specially some sub-classes like Chronurgy, Necromancers and Diviners) is one of the most powerful class in the game. They don’t have armor proficiency because of the historic tradition of the class. Wizards never had that and their “fragility” is part of the class design since 70s. The thing is that today is super easy to get Armor proficiency and circumvent this limitation as I mentioned above.
C’mon, we never saw Gandalf, Merlin, Presto, Dr. Strange or Harry Potter wearing armor, right?
My knee-jerk recommendation would be to get to Wizard 3 before multiclassing so you can take advantage of the wizard subclass. 3rd level is a really strong level for Wizard, and probably your best option for thriving in the early levels. Cleric will be a great compliment to it though.
I've always been a little underwhelmed by late-level wizard features (spells are where it's at for wizard, after all), so depending on how far your characters are going to get this campaign I would even recommend getting to 2nd or 4th level after you get 5th level wizard spells.
Maybe I’m lost, but what are the benefits Evoker have by casting healing spells that are Evocation?
I see no penalties to Wizard for wearing medium armor and shield. Half-Plate is only one point behind full Plate if you have at least DEX 14.
You should see again and again the Wizard section in where explicitly says: Wizards cannot cast spells while wearing armor, or elese they get penalized by the non-PROFICIENCY skill, plus the annoyance/disturbance it provokes while wearing those. It seems D&D developers deeply hate the Wizard class, so the only way they nerfed this class is applying this rule. Something similar happens to the Druids, but I supose you knew it yet. Those developers also forgot to implement a skill that could make the Wizards a bit more professionals in Arcana Recovery, at levels 18 or 20. I mean, ( at those levels ) Wizards should get something like Arcana Mastery, which it could makes them recover more spells quickier and, perhaps let them cast spells without the Somatic part, or the Mater
You are partially correct. Wizards can't cast spells because they're not proficient with armor. If they ARE proficient with armor, through multiclassing or feats, you aren't penalized in any way for it and can still cast spells (see link below for basic rules concerning armor and shields): https://www.dndbeyond.com/sources/basic-rules/equipment#ArmorandShields
A human variant wizard that picks up proficiency with armor and shields at such at lvl 1 with the Lightly Armored feat, for example, would be fine too.
It's not that Wizards hates the wizard class, it's that someone wearing heavy plate armor they don't know how to move in probably can't perform the somatic components for casting a spell.
I think ultimately it depends on the character type you had in mind for RP purposes.. Melding the two classes, even if it is just a 1 level dip in Cleric, can really add a lot of flavor to what you envision for the character image, and that's usually enough of a reason.
From experience, a single level dip is not a detriment to a build. Both are casters, so you'll only be one level behind in wizard spells, but you will get a spell slot of a higher level before you get any spells in that level. If you have spells that do nicely scaling up, then this isn't an issue. If you're a blaster wizard than upcasting is rarely worth it.
Abjuration Wizard or Enchantment Wizard paired with Order Wizard is an amazing combo if you have rogues or other hard hitting martial classes in your party who can make use of reaction attacks. And you'll heavy armor prof. Life is also a solid option that pairs with most wizards if you want to play more of a White Mage, and gets heavy armor....
But do note, you'll need a decent strength to use Heavy Armor, and a 15 str to wear plate. You might be better off with medium armor a decent Dex, as it'll help out in initiative and Dex saves. All clerics get medium armor, and so do a lot of other classes.. so it might be worth looking at other classes if AC is all that you are looking at.
For some lenient DMs, Order Cleric + Evoker is a groundbreaking combination. An sculpted Fireball followed by aVoice of Authority can kill serious things.
1 level cleric, 1 level artificer, and 1 level hexblade dips are basically some of the strongest Dips for a wizard available.
a wizard who gains access to armor and shield proficiency partially negates one of the greatest weaknesses a wizard has, low AC.
while the cleric does have a different casting stat for it’s prepared spells, a large number of those spells don’t rely on a casting g stat to be effective. Guidance, resistance, and thaumaturgy are usually my go to cantrips for a dip. Bless is incredibly powerful and it useful to cast when your big spells are being saved, or the circumstances aren’t quite right to cast them. Shield of faith can be used to double down and tank when necessary, I’ve cast this and taken the dodge action and become incredibly difficult to deal with in tight quarters. Or you can cast it on someone your escorting to help them survive. Purify good and drink is a nice ritual that the wizard does t normally have access to.
hell you could even prepare and make a scroll of detect magic so you can copy it to your spellbook to save a leveled spell choice and a preparation slot.
none of this takes into account the subclass features either, which can be quite potent.
a war wizard with a 1st level twilight dip reinforces initiative and grants an incredible amount of darkvision.
Generally, I'm in the "no" camp on Cleric dips on a Wizard just for armor. Taking Artificer at first level on a Wizard is usually superior as it give you medium armor, shields, and CON save proficiency without adding a 13 WIS requirement. Two levels of Fighter can also be a good alternative as it will give you Action Surge and thus the ability to load a turn with two spells once per short rest -- giving a heck of a nova -- in addition to the armor and shields, and CON save proficiency if taken at first level.
However, there are significant reasons you may want to go into Cleric a couple levels for a Channel Divinity. Tempest Cleric, for example, offers the ability to maximize damage with lightning and thunder damage, which is great for any Wizard that wants to go into those spells as well, but even more so for the Scribes Wizard which can make other spells into lightning or thunder damaging spells.
Depends on the end goal of the MC. I’ve seen it work, and I’ve seen it fail. It depends on your expectations. A cleric dip, and selecting spells that don’t much care about a low wis score will work just fine. Spell delay isn’t the end of the world.
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Any time an unfathomably powerful entity sweeps in and offers godlike rewards in return for just a few teensy favors, it’s a scam. Unless it’s me. I’d never lie to you, reader dearest.
i'm in the 'yes' camp for 1 level...although not a minmaxer and couldn't give 2 hoots about level 20. Most of my wizards have dipped 1 level into cleric. Its just fun. Never met a group that didn't enjoy an owl that heals.
I'm currently creating a new character for our next campaign.
The last couple of times I've played melee characters.
This time I wanted to mix things up a bit and play a Wizard.
It will either be School of Divination or Enchantment, not sure yet.
Right now I'm thinking about an one Lvl dip into the Cleric class (maybe Life Domain to support my party with some healing spells).
My main focus would be the armor proficiencies that I would get through the Cleric.
Is this worth the delay in the Wizards spell progression?
I'm a bit scared because of the low HP und AC of the Wizard. My previous characters were all very hard to kill so this is new terrain for me.
I would be happy to hear about your experiences and opinions on this topic.
Nope.
Armour and stuff is nice if you want the aesthetic but a wizard has no real need of these. They use spells.
Mage Armour
Shield
Misty Step
Mirror Image
Blur
And more.
There are many defense spells you can use.
If you want healing, be a Mark of Healing halfling and get some added to your wizard spell list.
Mark of Warding Dwarf also great option.
Wizard is one of the classes that are best without multiclassing. Multiclassing delays spell progression and denies your higher level features. It's rarely worth it.
You can also consider Bladesingers - they're quite tanky. In fact if your DM is liberal with magic item choices and you go into late game, an AC of 30+ becomes a doddle.
Click ✨ HERE ✨ For My Youtube Videos featuring Guides, Tips & Tricks for using D&D Beyond.
Need help with Homebrew? Check out ✨ this FAQ/Guide thread ✨ by IamSposta.
To play Devil's Advocate, if a wizard were to dip you probably couldn't do better than cleric. One level can give you a lot of stuff.
Spell progression is really important for wizards, but you get so much here that I think a 1-level delay could be worth it depending on your role, playstyle, and tier as this is quite front-loaded. Three additional cantrips and a wide spell selection can be huge addition to a wizard's toolbox. I would not go beyond that first level unless you needed it for your character concept.
My homebrew subclasses (full list here)
(Artificer) Swordmage | Glasswright | (Barbarian) Path of the Savage Embrace
(Bard) College of Dance | (Fighter) Warlord | Cannoneer
(Monk) Way of the Elements | (Ranger) Blade Dancer
(Rogue) DaggerMaster | Inquisitor | (Sorcerer) Riftwalker | Spellfist
(Warlock) The Swarm
In terms of optimization, a Cleric (or even Hexblade!) can offer a LOT to a Wizard. Peace or Twilight are amazing. But even the classic Knowledge Cleric is quite good.
Armor proficiency means no need to prepare and cast Mage Armor. Means more efficient usage of Shield. Means you have more durability to position more aggressively to deploy Thunderwave or other good cone spells.
However, it’s important to reinforce that getting ASI and better spells one level later is a bit frustrating. Really depends on your mood.
You can be a Wizard getting dip in the Evocation school, and later at level 12, getting some levels in Cleric of Life Domain. Since most of the healing spells are Evocation magics, wizards can get a nice ratio of healing/curing spells, so the only annoying part is how to deal with the armor penalties when using the Wizard part of the character.
Then, you can wear Leather armor to get decent AC, or else rely that score on the Dexterity.
My Ready-to-rock&roll chars:
Dertinus Tristany // Amilcar Barca // Vicenç Sacrarius // Oriol Deulofeu // Grovtuk
Maybe I’m lost, but what are the benefits Evoker have by casting healing spells that are Evocation?
I see no penalties to Wizard for wearing medium armor and shield. Half-Plate is only one point behind full Plate if you have at least DEX 14.
You should see again and again the Wizard section in where explicitly says: Wizards cannot cast spells while wearing armor, or elese they get penalized by the non-PROFICIENCY skill, plus the annoyance/disturbance it provokes while wearing those.
It seems D&D developers deeply hate the Wizard class, so the only way they nerfed this class is applying this rule. Something similar happens to the Druids, but I supose you knew it yet. Those developers also forgot to implement a skill that could make the Wizards a bit more professionals in Arcana Recovery, at levels 18 or 20. I mean, ( at those levels ) Wizards should get something like Arcana Mastery, which it could makes them recover more spells quickier and, perhaps let them cast spells without the Somatic part, or the Material part.
My Ready-to-rock&roll chars:
Dertinus Tristany // Amilcar Barca // Vicenç Sacrarius // Oriol Deulofeu // Grovtuk
I know this rule, dude. That’s why we are recommending in this very topic here for Wizards to multiclass Clerics (or Hexblade or Artificer) in order to get Armor proficiency.
To be honest, I don’t think D&D Developers hate Wizards. It’s a known fact that Wizard (specially some sub-classes like Chronurgy, Necromancers and Diviners) is one of the most powerful class in the game. They don’t have armor proficiency because of the historic tradition of the class. Wizards never had that and their “fragility” is part of the class design since 70s. The thing is that today is super easy to get Armor proficiency and circumvent this limitation as I mentioned above.
C’mon, we never saw Gandalf, Merlin, Presto, Dr. Strange or Harry Potter wearing armor, right?
My knee-jerk recommendation would be to get to Wizard 3 before multiclassing so you can take advantage of the wizard subclass. 3rd level is a really strong level for Wizard, and probably your best option for thriving in the early levels. Cleric will be a great compliment to it though.
I've always been a little underwhelmed by late-level wizard features (spells are where it's at for wizard, after all), so depending on how far your characters are going to get this campaign I would even recommend getting to 2nd or 4th level after you get 5th level wizard spells.
You are partially correct. Wizards can't cast spells because they're not proficient with armor. If they ARE proficient with armor, through multiclassing or feats, you aren't penalized in any way for it and can still cast spells (see link below for basic rules concerning armor and shields):
https://www.dndbeyond.com/sources/basic-rules/equipment#ArmorandShields
A human variant wizard that picks up proficiency with armor and shields at such at lvl 1 with the Lightly Armored feat, for example, would be fine too.
It's not that Wizards hates the wizard class, it's that someone wearing heavy plate armor they don't know how to move in probably can't perform the somatic components for casting a spell.
I think ultimately it depends on the character type you had in mind for RP purposes.. Melding the two classes, even if it is just a 1 level dip in Cleric, can really add a lot of flavor to what you envision for the character image, and that's usually enough of a reason.
From experience, a single level dip is not a detriment to a build. Both are casters, so you'll only be one level behind in wizard spells, but you will get a spell slot of a higher level before you get any spells in that level. If you have spells that do nicely scaling up, then this isn't an issue. If you're a blaster wizard than upcasting is rarely worth it.
Abjuration Wizard or Enchantment Wizard paired with Order Wizard is an amazing combo if you have rogues or other hard hitting martial classes in your party who can make use of reaction attacks. And you'll heavy armor prof. Life is also a solid option that pairs with most wizards if you want to play more of a White Mage, and gets heavy armor....
But do note, you'll need a decent strength to use Heavy Armor, and a 15 str to wear plate. You might be better off with medium armor a decent Dex, as it'll help out in initiative and Dex saves. All clerics get medium armor, and so do a lot of other classes.. so it might be worth looking at other classes if AC is all that you are looking at.
For some lenient DMs, Order Cleric + Evoker is a groundbreaking combination. An sculpted Fireball followed by aVoice of Authority can kill serious things.
1 level cleric, 1 level artificer, and 1 level hexblade dips are basically some of the strongest Dips for a wizard available.
a wizard who gains access to armor and shield proficiency partially negates one of the greatest weaknesses a wizard has, low AC.
while the cleric does have a different casting stat for it’s prepared spells, a large number of those spells don’t rely on a casting g stat to be effective. Guidance, resistance, and thaumaturgy are usually my go to cantrips for a dip. Bless is incredibly powerful and it useful to cast when your big spells are being saved, or the circumstances aren’t quite right to cast them. Shield of faith can be used to double down and tank when necessary, I’ve cast this and taken the dodge action and become incredibly difficult to deal with in tight quarters. Or you can cast it on someone your escorting to help them survive. Purify good and drink is a nice ritual that the wizard does t normally have access to.
hell you could even prepare and make a scroll of detect magic so you can copy it to your spellbook to save a leveled spell choice and a preparation slot.
none of this takes into account the subclass features either, which can be quite potent.
a war wizard with a 1st level twilight dip reinforces initiative and grants an incredible amount of darkvision.
Generally, I'm in the "no" camp on Cleric dips on a Wizard just for armor. Taking Artificer at first level on a Wizard is usually superior as it give you medium armor, shields, and CON save proficiency without adding a 13 WIS requirement. Two levels of Fighter can also be a good alternative as it will give you Action Surge and thus the ability to load a turn with two spells once per short rest -- giving a heck of a nova -- in addition to the armor and shields, and CON save proficiency if taken at first level.
However, there are significant reasons you may want to go into Cleric a couple levels for a Channel Divinity. Tempest Cleric, for example, offers the ability to maximize damage with lightning and thunder damage, which is great for any Wizard that wants to go into those spells as well, but even more so for the Scribes Wizard which can make other spells into lightning or thunder damaging spells.
Depends on the end goal of the MC. I’ve seen it work, and I’ve seen it fail. It depends on your expectations. A cleric dip, and selecting spells that don’t much care about a low wis score will work just fine. Spell delay isn’t the end of the world.
Any time an unfathomably powerful entity sweeps in and offers godlike rewards in return for just a few teensy favors, it’s a scam. Unless it’s me. I’d never lie to you, reader dearest.
Tasha
i'm in the 'yes' camp for 1 level...although not a minmaxer and couldn't give 2 hoots about level 20. Most of my wizards have dipped 1 level into cleric. Its just fun. Never met a group that didn't enjoy an owl that heals.
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