I'm currently a paladin with a sorcerer on my team. We are good friends in game and out. A while ago, our DM put us against a Beholder surrounded by Black puddings and Rust Monsters. Fun encounter, but brutal to boot. Due to this, our magical gear became innate from the anti-magic cone, which then allowed the Rust Monster to degrade my ever precious adamantine armor. Since then, it has been 1 armor class lower, and that 1 ac could have saved me in many encounters. In one particular city, I went to some expert forgers/smithers who said I would require adamantine to repair the armor. Funnily enough in the same town while I was off doing other things, my two party members found a a door that was made of adamantine. They tried breaking through to no effort, and eventually gave up and we all met up and left. Many sessions have passed and recently I watched an episode of Critical Role where their wizard used the Fabricate spell. Curious about the spell and its abilities, I did some research. It reads as follows:
Casting Time: 10 minutes
Range: 120 feet
Components: V S
Duration: Instantaneous
Classes: Wizard
You convert raw materials into products of the same material. For example, you can fabricate a wooden bridge from a clump of trees, a rope from a patch of hemp, and clothes from flax or wool. Choose raw materials that you can see within range. You can fabricate a Large or smaller object (contained within a 10-foot cube, or eight connected 5-foot cubes), given a sufficient quantity of raw material. If you are working with metal, stone, or another mineral substance, however, the fabricated object can be no larger than Medium (contained within a single 5-foot cube). The quality of objects made by the spell is commensurate with the quality of the raw materials. Creatures or magic items can’t be created or transmuted by this spell. You also can’t use it to create items that ordinarily require a high degree of craftsmanship, such as jewelry, weapons, glass, or armor, unless you have proficiency with the type of artisan’s tools used to craft such objects.
Now my question is if my sorcerer could use his wish spell to cast fabricate on the door to turn it into simply a chunk of adamantine? Since he's casting it through wish, casting time will reduce from 10 minutes to a single action. But I just want to know if what I'm thinking is possible? Can he Fabricate a part or all of the door into a separated chunk? I just want my armor back to full potential. I understand that you need a certain proficiency to meld the metal into weapons or armor, so no extra sets of armor.
P.S. No we can't just break the door off the hinges and take it with us, it weighs a ridiculous amount, and even if we used animate objects, we have no place to store it and bringing a giant greenish door with us along town is not possible, as I was not able to mention we are not welcome in this town. So we need to be stealthy.
If you're using the Wish spell, you can simply create a non-magical object worth up to 25,000gp, which may as well be a hunk of adamantine. You might also be able to Wish your armor to be repaired/enhanced.
However, for using Fabricate on the door, it depends on whether your DM counts it as "Raw Material". There is debate on whether manufactured items can count as such. I would talk to your DM directly.
My sorcerer friend doesn't want to risk losing wish forever, and nor do I want him to, so he uses it to duplicate other spells, which doesn't have a chance of losing the spell. I suppose I would have to see what the DM thinks.
I'm currently a paladin with a sorcerer on my team. We are good friends in game and out. A while ago, our DM put us against a Beholder surrounded by Black puddings and Rust Monsters. Fun encounter, but brutal to boot. Due to this, our magical gear became innate from the anti-magic cone, which then allowed the Rust Monster to degrade my ever precious adamantine armor. Since then, it has been 1 armor class lower, and that 1 ac could have saved me in many encounters. In one particular city, I went to some expert forgers/smithers who said I would require adamantine to repair the armor. Funnily enough in the same town while I was off doing other things, my two party members found a a door that was made of adamantine. They tried breaking through to no effort, and eventually gave up and we all met up and left. Many sessions have passed and recently I watched an episode of Critical Role where their wizard used the Fabricate spell. Curious about the spell and its abilities, I did some research. It reads as follows:
Casting Time: 10 minutes
Range: 120 feet
Components: V S
Duration: Instantaneous
Classes: Wizard
You convert raw materials into products of the same material. For example, you can fabricate a wooden bridge from a clump of trees, a rope from a patch of hemp, and clothes from flax or wool. Choose raw materials that you can see within range. You can fabricate a Large or smaller object (contained within a 10-foot cube, or eight connected 5-foot cubes), given a sufficient quantity of raw material. If you are working with metal, stone, or another mineral substance, however, the fabricated object can be no larger than Medium (contained within a single 5-foot cube). The quality of objects made by the spell is commensurate with the quality of the raw materials. Creatures or magic items can’t be created or transmuted by this spell. You also can’t use it to create items that ordinarily require a high degree of craftsmanship, such as jewelry, weapons, glass, or armor, unless you have proficiency with the type of artisan’s tools used to craft such objects.
Now my question is if my sorcerer could use his wish spell to cast fabricate on the door to turn it into simply a chunk of adamantine? Since he's casting it through wish, casting time will reduce from 10 minutes to a single action. But I just want to know if what I'm thinking is possible? Can he Fabricate a part or all of the door into a separated chunk? I just want my armor back to full potential. I understand that you need a certain proficiency to meld the metal into weapons or armor, so no extra sets of armor.
P.S. No we can't just break the door off the hinges and take it with us, it weighs a ridiculous amount, and even if we used animate objects, we have no place to store it and bringing a giant greenish door with us along town is not possible, as I was not able to mention we are not welcome in this town. So we need to be stealthy.
You could use Wish to Cast a demi plane spell, reduce the door (via the Enlarge/Reduce) and push into the demi plane. It would be 1/8 th its original weigh and smaller than its frame so it would likely fall off the frame. Congrats you have a door in a demi plane that only you can access.
Yea it's very much a DM thing... You could either read "raw material" as the material needs to be in a completely raw state, or that the raw material simply needs to be present in any state... In the sense that two objects made from the same thing, if broken down would contain the same raw material.
Personally I think it's probably somewhere in between... I think requiring everything to be in an entirely "raw" state raises some really annoying questions as to what constitutes "raw"... So many things in the worlds are worked on some level, so it'd be almost impossible to find usable versions of certain materials for the spell. For example if you wanted to work with metal, what is it's "raw" state? It'd be locked in a rock somewhere underground often completely inaccessible. Even ore taken from a mine has seperated from it's natural state with tools.
I think a good middleground is to say that any mateirla currently part of an intact structure isn't viable... So if you find a metal door, you'd need to break it down to a certain degree before the spell could take effect... But that's an entirely subjective ruling.
I personally love the fabricate spell and I've been allowed to create armor and weapons from the remains of an iron golem (I took the skilled feat specifically for the tool profs). Obviously this leaves the spell open for abuse, but I'm operating with the knowledge that my DM will shut me down if I try to make armor from every source of metal we come across, only to sell it in stores for major profit... So I'm only using it to create objects the party needs.. That way I'm allowed a certain degree of freedom to have fun, but I'm much less likely to break the campaign economy.
I'd say that it's perfectly reasonable that anything that regular proficiency wouldn't allow you to craft in a given campaign, couldn't be crated through the fabricate spell either.. So yea, I personally probably wouldn't allow my players to create adamantine armor.. unless under some special circumstance.
As for the door, I believe I said I personally wouldn't allow intact objects to be targeted, so it'd be safe unless you could damage it anyway.. But hey, that's part is certainly a DM thing.
While your point regarding the few examples given is fair, the spell also mentions that it is possible to create jewelry, armor, weapons with the spell, assuming your have the proficiency of course. I assume this means that the spell is intended to be realistically pull these things off... So unless you happen to come cross a mine with exposed gemstones aswell as precious metals in the wall, I fail to see how jewelry would ever be possible.
I'm thinking there's a grey area here, since the spell specfically says you can't transmute magic items... implying that you can transmute non magical items.
Furthermore I believe Mike Mearls has said he'd allow fusing diamond dust into a diamond... Diamond dust most certainly is not "raw material" in the same sense as a clump of trees... Obviously that's arguing RAI rather than RAW, but I think it's a fair consideration.
Ah, I guess I missed your intentions with the door bit :P
As for nuggets.. I don't think it's very common for metal to appear in raw nuggets for you to pick up. I'm by no means an expert on how you go about getting metal, but as far as I understand it, most metal comes from mining ore from which the purer metal is then extracted. The problem is that chunks of ore is not the raw state of metal in the same sense as a clump of trees is a raw state wood, as a lot work has been put into making it the state it is in... Especially the state in which you'd be able to buy it at a town.
Those gemstones you linked have probably also been worked on quite a lot to seperate them from surrounding material. They certainly don't qualify as raw in the same sense as a clump of trees does... Unless you find the gem stone sticking out of a rock wall. Basically any gem your party can get a hold of will have been worked on quite a bit, even if they aren't expertly carved.
This leaves the DM having to track how exactly this society goes about finding every kind of material the party might come across. Unless of course they come across it somewhere in nature, which is unlikely with a lot of materials.
I'm just saying that there are certainly some degree of work you'd allow on the material and still have it be valid for the spell. I'm totally with you on wanting to put some restrictions to avoid abuse, but I don't think it's as clear cut as you make it out to be.
I mean the wool could still be on the sheep when used for the spell :P But I agree that's probably not what they ment...
I think we're at a point where I understand where you'd put your limit, even if my own limit would be somewhere else... I was just making the point that where we put that limit is very much open to interpretation in my opinion.
I do wonder though, how would you feel about material that has once been part of a very specific object, but since reduced to a "material" state again? Let's say I take 50 gold coins and melt them down into a puddle of gold, would you allow that puddle of gold be used? Or hmmm... a large ornate wooden figure I work into wooden planks before casting the spell?
Got me with the sheep thing... That makes the wool example quite different from the other examples.
Honestly this is why I'm of the "Does the area targeted contain the raw material material in any form (In the sense that a shattered wooden bowl contains the raw material "wood")" persuasion... Without allowing the spell to effectively destroy an object. I feel like it makes the spell more interesting and far easier to work with. Obviously it requires a bit more oversight so no crazy shenanigans is happening... But from what I can tell it's fairly close to how a lot of people ar eusing it...
Honestly I don't know how I'd feel about simple objects such as coins being used.. they don't really fit my overall ruleset, but on the other hand I feel like they ought to.. Maybe I'd ask the player to melt them down first *shrug*... But I feel like getting hung up on that stuff is the path to a lot of headaches.
I mean refined metals probably don't fall under either definition you linked, but I don't blame you for allowing it.. With a spell like this I believe it's more important to figure out what you feel is the "spirit" of the spell, and work from there.
If refined metal bars do not count for RAW materials I am sure what would for metal then....a huge lump of ore? If so that seems oddly restrictive. If you are giving your players refined adamantine bars then expect them NOT to use them in crafting I am not sure what you are doing.
The door makes sense to not be able to process though as it for sure a final product. But If you could melt part of it into a bar I would allow it.
This conversation has probably dragged on long enough, but I'm still curious as to where you put your limits ^^. Lets take the example of my party having defeated the iron golem. It now lies in pieces at our feet.
If I were to break pieces off of the iron golem, or simply pick a fragment up from the ground, with the explicit goal of making that material available to me, wouldn't that fall under recycling the material? Surely whether the material is being recycled into the shape of a puddle on the ground, a bar shape or a randomly jagged chunk, they're all means of reacquiring the raw materials for production by destroying the original worked shape.
Personally, I'd just say the original material just needs to be discrete objects that would realistically work. For instance, planks of wood and iron ingots and such are processed, not raw, but I'd still allow them to be used as raw material. Likewise I'd let somebody just get a pile of clothes and curtains and the like and use that as raw material to create new clothes or such (particularly if they have weaver's tools proficiency).
I would not allow it to take raw material from processed states that are part of something bigger like structures - such as doors, walls etc. For example you could not go to a large wall and Fabricate a hole in it. But you could smash a hole the normal way and then use Fabricate on the broken pieces of stone to make something - or even fix the hole you made. In the OP's example, I would not allow Fabricate on the door while it is attached, they would need to remove the door first.
I rule it this way so it cannot be used to bypass obstacles or destroy foundations, but allows creative (puns!) uses of the spell in a functional way. I also hold no problems if they wanted to take old equipment as raw material for new equipment where they have proficiency be it personal use or for profit because with the right tool they could do this anyway, the spell is just faster and I'm fine with that. It could be a fun downtime business - buying old damaged swords and armours and using fabricate to create and sell new armours and weapons for a markup. It's some tidy profit during downtime which can open up more downtime options, but not as profitable as adventuring.
Using magic to get extra coins is fine with me. It's interesting, it's creative and doesn't detract from adventuring. They might want to eventually have their own stronghold, for example, which is expensive to run. Their adventures might make a lot in coin but any downtime using normal rules and they'll not be able to maintain that stronghold as what the normal rules let them earn is not enough to cover even maintenance costs. So if they want to use magic during downtime to bump up their gold to ensure they can meet the costs - I'm okie doke with that. It's not OP and it's fun.
I mean, by the time they get spells like Fabricate, money isn't really the drive for adventuring anymore. I remember in my last two campaigns we had more gold than we could spend. In one we had over a million gold, and in the other we ruled the lands as epic (20+) characters and money was just not a factor anymore. Yet, we continued adventuring and had lots of fun. Coin is a resource where needed but not the reward for playing. We play because the adventures are fun. Besides, no matter how much gold they have, the DM still decides what they can or cannot buy.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Click ✨ HERE ✨ For My Youtube Videos featuring Guides, Tips & Tricks for using D&D Beyond. Need help with Homebrew? Check out ✨ thisFAQ/Guide thread ✨ by IamSposta.
I mean, by the time they get spells like Fabricate, money isn't really the drive for adventuring anymore. I remember in my last two campaigns we had more gold than we could spend. In one we had over a million gold, and in the other we ruled the lands as epic (20+) characters and money was just not a factor anymore. Yet, we continued adventuring and had lots of fun. Coin is a resource where needed but not the reward for playing. We play because the adventures are fun. Besides, no matter how much gold they have, the DM still decides what they can or cannot buy.
This is where I was going with OP's story. If they have access to Wish, can they not just afford to buy Adamantine armor? If the material is rare, can they not buy that door from whoever owns it?
I'm just confused that a (very) high level party is having trouble acquiring an Uncommon magic item. It sounds like the DM just doesn't want them to have it.
I'll reiterate everyone, we know expert smiths who can repair my adamantine armor, I just need pieces of adamantine to give them so they can repair the hole in my armor. Which is why I don't really care about grabbing the whole door, just a small chunk enough to bring back to the smiths (though we may just grab the whole door). I mentioned Fabricate since it was the only spell I could think of that would let me pull a piece of adamantine off the door. If anyone knows another spell I could use, please do tell. Also, several of us have been disintegrated and brought back to life, and for those who don't know, that spell gets rid of all your non-magical items, including gold. So we can't just go spending money willy nilly, nor will we be able to find adamantine armor so easily, since there are very few civilizations in the world we are playing, and they barely have any magical items. This is not something I blame the DM for, the world was just built like this for the setting.
Also, my sorcerer and I do not want to use the Wish spell for anything other than replicating another spell, because anything else has the chance of him losing the spell forever, and wish has been clutch in our campaign.
I'm currently a paladin with a sorcerer on my team. We are good friends in game and out. A while ago, our DM put us against a Beholder surrounded by Black puddings and Rust Monsters. Fun encounter, but brutal to boot. Due to this, our magical gear became innate from the anti-magic cone, which then allowed the Rust Monster to degrade my ever precious adamantine armor. Since then, it has been 1 armor class lower, and that 1 ac could have saved me in many encounters. In one particular city, I went to some expert forgers/smithers who said I would require adamantine to repair the armor. Funnily enough in the same town while I was off doing other things, my two party members found a a door that was made of adamantine. They tried breaking through to no effort, and eventually gave up and we all met up and left. Many sessions have passed and recently I watched an episode of Critical Role where their wizard used the Fabricate spell. Curious about the spell and its abilities, I did some research. It reads as follows:
Casting Time: 10 minutes
Range: 120 feet
Components: V S
Duration: Instantaneous
Classes: Wizard
You convert raw materials into products of the same material. For example, you can fabricate a wooden bridge from a clump of trees, a rope from a patch of hemp, and clothes from flax or wool. Choose raw materials that you can see within range. You can fabricate a Large or smaller object (contained within a 10-foot cube, or eight connected 5-foot cubes), given a sufficient quantity of raw material. If you are working with metal, stone, or another mineral substance, however, the fabricated object can be no larger than Medium (contained within a single 5-foot cube). The quality of objects made by the spell is commensurate with the quality of the raw materials. Creatures or magic items can’t be created or transmuted by this spell. You also can’t use it to create items that ordinarily require a high degree of craftsmanship, such as jewelry, weapons, glass, or armor, unless you have proficiency with the type of artisan’s tools used to craft such objects.
Now my question is if my sorcerer could use his wish spell to cast fabricate on the door to turn it into simply a chunk of adamantine? Since he's casting it through wish, casting time will reduce from 10 minutes to a single action. But I just want to know if what I'm thinking is possible? Can he Fabricate a part or all of the door into a separated chunk? I just want my armor back to full potential. I understand that you need a certain proficiency to meld the metal into weapons or armor, so no extra sets of armor.
P.S. No we can't just break the door off the hinges and take it with us, it weighs a ridiculous amount, and even if we used animate objects, we have no place to store it and bringing a giant greenish door with us along town is not possible, as I was not able to mention we are not welcome in this town. So we need to be stealthy.
I'm a little late here but would just like to point one thing out:
If the AC reduction came from a Rust Monster, that should not have happened, as they only affect Ferrous metals (iron and its alloys). Adamantine would not be included. Personally, I would also rule as a DM that Black Puddings could not so damage something as durable as Adamantine without prolonged contact, but that's just me on that point.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
To post a comment, please login or register a new account.
I'm currently a paladin with a sorcerer on my team. We are good friends in game and out. A while ago, our DM put us against a Beholder surrounded by Black puddings and Rust Monsters. Fun encounter, but brutal to boot. Due to this, our magical gear became innate from the anti-magic cone, which then allowed the Rust Monster to degrade my ever precious adamantine armor. Since then, it has been 1 armor class lower, and that 1 ac could have saved me in many encounters. In one particular city, I went to some expert forgers/smithers who said I would require adamantine to repair the armor. Funnily enough in the same town while I was off doing other things, my two party members found a a door that was made of adamantine. They tried breaking through to no effort, and eventually gave up and we all met up and left. Many sessions have passed and recently I watched an episode of Critical Role where their wizard used the Fabricate spell. Curious about the spell and its abilities, I did some research. It reads as follows:
Choose raw materials that you can see within range. You can fabricate a Large or smaller object (contained within a 10-foot cube, or eight connected 5-foot cubes), given a sufficient quantity of raw material. If you are working with metal, stone, or another mineral substance, however, the fabricated object can be no larger than Medium (contained within a single 5-foot cube). The quality of objects made by the spell is commensurate with the quality of the raw materials.
Creatures or magic items can’t be created or transmuted by this spell. You also can’t use it to create items that ordinarily require a high degree of craftsmanship, such as jewelry, weapons, glass, or armor, unless you have proficiency with the type of artisan’s tools used to craft such objects.
Now my question is if my sorcerer could use his wish spell to cast fabricate on the door to turn it into simply a chunk of adamantine? Since he's casting it through wish, casting time will reduce from 10 minutes to a single action. But I just want to know if what I'm thinking is possible? Can he Fabricate a part or all of the door into a separated chunk? I just want my armor back to full potential. I understand that you need a certain proficiency to meld the metal into weapons or armor, so no extra sets of armor.
P.S. No we can't just break the door off the hinges and take it with us, it weighs a ridiculous amount, and even if we used animate objects, we have no place to store it and bringing a giant greenish door with us along town is not possible, as I was not able to mention we are not welcome in this town. So we need to be stealthy.
If you're using the Wish spell, you can simply create a non-magical object worth up to 25,000gp, which may as well be a hunk of adamantine. You might also be able to Wish your armor to be repaired/enhanced.
However, for using Fabricate on the door, it depends on whether your DM counts it as "Raw Material". There is debate on whether manufactured items can count as such. I would talk to your DM directly.
My sorcerer friend doesn't want to risk losing wish forever, and nor do I want him to, so he uses it to duplicate other spells, which doesn't have a chance of losing the spell. I suppose I would have to see what the DM thinks.
You could use Wish to Cast a demi plane spell, reduce the door (via the Enlarge/Reduce) and push into the demi plane. It would be 1/8 th its original weigh and smaller than its frame so it would likely fall off the frame. Congrats you have a door in a demi plane that only you can access.
Yea it's very much a DM thing... You could either read "raw material" as the material needs to be in a completely raw state, or that the raw material simply needs to be present in any state... In the sense that two objects made from the same thing, if broken down would contain the same raw material.
Personally I think it's probably somewhere in between... I think requiring everything to be in an entirely "raw" state raises some really annoying questions as to what constitutes "raw"... So many things in the worlds are worked on some level, so it'd be almost impossible to find usable versions of certain materials for the spell. For example if you wanted to work with metal, what is it's "raw" state? It'd be locked in a rock somewhere underground often completely inaccessible. Even ore taken from a mine has seperated from it's natural state with tools.
I think a good middleground is to say that any mateirla currently part of an intact structure isn't viable... So if you find a metal door, you'd need to break it down to a certain degree before the spell could take effect... But that's an entirely subjective ruling.
I personally love the fabricate spell and I've been allowed to create armor and weapons from the remains of an iron golem (I took the skilled feat specifically for the tool profs). Obviously this leaves the spell open for abuse, but I'm operating with the knowledge that my DM will shut me down if I try to make armor from every source of metal we come across, only to sell it in stores for major profit... So I'm only using it to create objects the party needs.. That way I'm allowed a certain degree of freedom to have fun, but I'm much less likely to break the campaign economy.
I'd say that it's perfectly reasonable that anything that regular proficiency wouldn't allow you to craft in a given campaign, couldn't be crated through the fabricate spell either.. So yea, I personally probably wouldn't allow my players to create adamantine armor.. unless under some special circumstance.
As for the door, I believe I said I personally wouldn't allow intact objects to be targeted, so it'd be safe unless you could damage it anyway.. But hey, that's part is certainly a DM thing.
While your point regarding the few examples given is fair, the spell also mentions that it is possible to create jewelry, armor, weapons with the spell, assuming your have the proficiency of course. I assume this means that the spell is intended to be realistically pull these things off... So unless you happen to come cross a mine with exposed gemstones aswell as precious metals in the wall, I fail to see how jewelry would ever be possible.
I'm thinking there's a grey area here, since the spell specfically says you can't transmute magic items... implying that you can transmute non magical items.
Furthermore I believe Mike Mearls has said he'd allow fusing diamond dust into a diamond... Diamond dust most certainly is not "raw material" in the same sense as a clump of trees... Obviously that's arguing RAI rather than RAW, but I think it's a fair consideration.
Ah, I guess I missed your intentions with the door bit :P
As for nuggets.. I don't think it's very common for metal to appear in raw nuggets for you to pick up. I'm by no means an expert on how you go about getting metal, but as far as I understand it, most metal comes from mining ore from which the purer metal is then extracted. The problem is that chunks of ore is not the raw state of metal in the same sense as a clump of trees is a raw state wood, as a lot work has been put into making it the state it is in... Especially the state in which you'd be able to buy it at a town.
Those gemstones you linked have probably also been worked on quite a lot to seperate them from surrounding material. They certainly don't qualify as raw in the same sense as a clump of trees does... Unless you find the gem stone sticking out of a rock wall. Basically any gem your party can get a hold of will have been worked on quite a bit, even if they aren't expertly carved.
This leaves the DM having to track how exactly this society goes about finding every kind of material the party might come across. Unless of course they come across it somewhere in nature, which is unlikely with a lot of materials.
I'm just saying that there are certainly some degree of work you'd allow on the material and still have it be valid for the spell. I'm totally with you on wanting to put some restrictions to avoid abuse, but I don't think it's as clear cut as you make it out to be.
I mean the wool could still be on the sheep when used for the spell :P But I agree that's probably not what they ment...
I think we're at a point where I understand where you'd put your limit, even if my own limit would be somewhere else... I was just making the point that where we put that limit is very much open to interpretation in my opinion.
I do wonder though, how would you feel about material that has once been part of a very specific object, but since reduced to a "material" state again? Let's say I take 50 gold coins and melt them down into a puddle of gold, would you allow that puddle of gold be used? Or hmmm... a large ornate wooden figure I work into wooden planks before casting the spell?
Got me with the sheep thing... That makes the wool example quite different from the other examples.
Honestly this is why I'm of the "Does the area targeted contain the raw material material in any form (In the sense that a shattered wooden bowl contains the raw material "wood")" persuasion... Without allowing the spell to effectively destroy an object. I feel like it makes the spell more interesting and far easier to work with. Obviously it requires a bit more oversight so no crazy shenanigans is happening... But from what I can tell it's fairly close to how a lot of people ar eusing it...
Honestly I don't know how I'd feel about simple objects such as coins being used.. they don't really fit my overall ruleset, but on the other hand I feel like they ought to.. Maybe I'd ask the player to melt them down first *shrug*... But I feel like getting hung up on that stuff is the path to a lot of headaches.
I mean refined metals probably don't fall under either definition you linked, but I don't blame you for allowing it.. With a spell like this I believe it's more important to figure out what you feel is the "spirit" of the spell, and work from there.
If refined metal bars do not count for RAW materials I am sure what would for metal then....a huge lump of ore? If so that seems oddly restrictive. If you are giving your players refined adamantine bars then expect them NOT to use them in crafting I am not sure what you are doing.
The door makes sense to not be able to process though as it for sure a final product. But If you could melt part of it into a bar I would allow it.
This conversation has probably dragged on long enough, but I'm still curious as to where you put your limits ^^. Lets take the example of my party having defeated the iron golem. It now lies in pieces at our feet.
If I were to break pieces off of the iron golem, or simply pick a fragment up from the ground, with the explicit goal of making that material available to me, wouldn't that fall under recycling the material? Surely whether the material is being recycled into the shape of a puddle on the ground, a bar shape or a randomly jagged chunk, they're all means of reacquiring the raw materials for production by destroying the original worked shape.
Personally, I'd just say the original material just needs to be discrete objects that would realistically work. For instance, planks of wood and iron ingots and such are processed, not raw, but I'd still allow them to be used as raw material. Likewise I'd let somebody just get a pile of clothes and curtains and the like and use that as raw material to create new clothes or such (particularly if they have weaver's tools proficiency).
I would not allow it to take raw material from processed states that are part of something bigger like structures - such as doors, walls etc. For example you could not go to a large wall and Fabricate a hole in it. But you could smash a hole the normal way and then use Fabricate on the broken pieces of stone to make something - or even fix the hole you made. In the OP's example, I would not allow Fabricate on the door while it is attached, they would need to remove the door first.
I rule it this way so it cannot be used to bypass obstacles or destroy foundations, but allows creative (puns!) uses of the spell in a functional way. I also hold no problems if they wanted to take old equipment as raw material for new equipment where they have proficiency be it personal use or for profit because with the right tool they could do this anyway, the spell is just faster and I'm fine with that. It could be a fun downtime business - buying old damaged swords and armours and using fabricate to create and sell new armours and weapons for a markup. It's some tidy profit during downtime which can open up more downtime options, but not as profitable as adventuring.
Using magic to get extra coins is fine with me. It's interesting, it's creative and doesn't detract from adventuring. They might want to eventually have their own stronghold, for example, which is expensive to run. Their adventures might make a lot in coin but any downtime using normal rules and they'll not be able to maintain that stronghold as what the normal rules let them earn is not enough to cover even maintenance costs. So if they want to use magic during downtime to bump up their gold to ensure they can meet the costs - I'm okie doke with that. It's not OP and it's fun.
I mean, by the time they get spells like Fabricate, money isn't really the drive for adventuring anymore. I remember in my last two campaigns we had more gold than we could spend. In one we had over a million gold, and in the other we ruled the lands as epic (20+) characters and money was just not a factor anymore. Yet, we continued adventuring and had lots of fun. Coin is a resource where needed but not the reward for playing. We play because the adventures are fun. Besides, no matter how much gold they have, the DM still decides what they can or cannot buy.
Click ✨ HERE ✨ For My Youtube Videos featuring Guides, Tips & Tricks for using D&D Beyond.
Need help with Homebrew? Check out ✨ this FAQ/Guide thread ✨ by IamSposta.
This is where I was going with OP's story. If they have access to Wish, can they not just afford to buy Adamantine armor? If the material is rare, can they not buy that door from whoever owns it?
I'm just confused that a (very) high level party is having trouble acquiring an Uncommon magic item. It sounds like the DM just doesn't want them to have it.
My homebrew subclasses (full list here)
(Artificer) Swordmage | Glasswright | (Barbarian) Path of the Savage Embrace
(Bard) College of Dance | (Fighter) Warlord | Cannoneer
(Monk) Way of the Elements | (Ranger) Blade Dancer
(Rogue) DaggerMaster | Inquisitor | (Sorcerer) Riftwalker | Spellfist
(Warlock) The Swarm
I'll reiterate everyone, we know expert smiths who can repair my adamantine armor, I just need pieces of adamantine to give them so they can repair the hole in my armor. Which is why I don't really care about grabbing the whole door, just a small chunk enough to bring back to the smiths (though we may just grab the whole door). I mentioned Fabricate since it was the only spell I could think of that would let me pull a piece of adamantine off the door. If anyone knows another spell I could use, please do tell. Also, several of us have been disintegrated and brought back to life, and for those who don't know, that spell gets rid of all your non-magical items, including gold. So we can't just go spending money willy nilly, nor will we be able to find adamantine armor so easily, since there are very few civilizations in the world we are playing, and they barely have any magical items. This is not something I blame the DM for, the world was just built like this for the setting.
Also, my sorcerer and I do not want to use the Wish spell for anything other than replicating another spell, because anything else has the chance of him losing the spell forever, and wish has been clutch in our campaign.
I'm a little late here but would just like to point one thing out:
If the AC reduction came from a Rust Monster, that should not have happened, as they only affect Ferrous metals (iron and its alloys). Adamantine would not be included. Personally, I would also rule as a DM that Black Puddings could not so damage something as durable as Adamantine without prolonged contact, but that's just me on that point.