Yeah, at a minimum, bundling them would likely increase the price to double to about $60. Textbook price tags are an overlooked reason why they are not a very good example on how it could be done while avoiding the "paying twice" complaint.
I think you’re misunderstanding what I’m trying to say. They wouldn’t be “giving away” any coding time, money, or effort for free. Yes those things are expensive and valuable but, now that the companies are merged, the money that pays for those things is now coming from the overall profit margins It doesn’t matter if someone buys the physical book or the DnD Beyond access, those profits will go to support the developers. Therefore, if bundling the products results in more overall sales, then they’re not giving anything away, they’re actually making way more money There’s also the chance that bundling wouldn’t increase sales though. If that’s the case, then it would make less sense, but I don’t know what their marketing research looks like.
the other scenario is that bundling might not increase overall sales, but it still makes sense for them because it might promote the site and convert more paper people to digital players. I’m an example of this. I only recently tried DnD Beyond, but I’m already sold and I’m pretty sure I’ll never buy another physical book. Converting people like me might be worth taking an upfront hit to their profits in exchange for a longer term payout. After all, I guarantee that DnD Beyond has a higher profit margin for WoTC given the costs of printing and physical distribution that eats into the profit margins of the physical books. It might be worth their money to invest in bundling the digital and physical books so that more people try DnD Beyond and realize they don’t need to buy the physical books anymore. They’ll never get rid of physical books completely, but the more people that buy then digital version only the better.
I doubt they’d ever bundle any of the currently published books; it would upset too many people who have already bought both versions, but it may be something they try when the next players handbook is ready.
Why do you think it would double the price? I’ve been buying text books for a long time and the prices didn’t change when they started bundling them with digital editions. They’ve always been ridiculously expense. I have text books topping 3000 pages; split into multiple volumes and all printed in full colour on gloss paper. These things cost a fortune to print and ship yet, page-for-page, they’re actually cheaper than DnD books.
If WoTC decides to bundled them, it would likely be a business decision with the goal to either promote the DnD Beyond platform or to drive overall sales. I doubt they’d increase the prices by much, if at all.
Why do you think it would double the price? I’ve been buying text books for a long time and the prices didn’t change when they started bundling them with digital editions. They’ve always been ridiculously expense. I have text books topping 3000 pages; split into multiple volumes and all printed in full colour on gloss paper. These things cost a fortune to print and ship yet, page-for-page, they’re actually cheaper than DnD books.
If WoTC decides to bundled them, it would likely be a business decision with the goal to either promote the DnD Beyond platform or to drive overall sales. I doubt they’d increase the prices by much, if at all.
MSRP + $10 for a sealed copy with a 1 time redeemable code for dndbeyond. That would be the only way I see this idea ever happening.
Why do you think it would double the price? I’ve been buying text books for a long time and the prices didn’t change when they started bundling them with digital editions. They’ve always been ridiculously expense. I have text books topping 3000 pages; split into multiple volumes and all printed in full colour on gloss paper. These things cost a fortune to print and ship yet, page-for-page, they’re actually cheaper than DnD books.
If WoTC decides to bundled them, it would likely be a business decision with the goal to either promote the DnD Beyond platform or to drive overall sales. I doubt they’d increase the prices by much, if at all.
MSRP + $10 for a sealed copy with a 1 time redeemable code for dndbeyond. That would be the only way I see this idea ever happening.
Yeah, I agree. And it probably would never happen on any of the currently published books; it’d upset all of the people who’ve already bought both versions. Those people are the biggest fans and it’d be a really dumb move for WoTC to alienate them. If WoTC is considering something like this, I’d be surprised if it came about before the 5.5 edition.
Honestly, I am just waiting to see what happens and not buying digital or physical. I'll give it a year.
i probably wouldn’t hold your breath. I’d be shocked if they did it on any of the books that are already published. It’s be a dumb move because it would really upset all of their biggest fans who’ve already bought both copies. Even all of the people who’ve only bought the digital copies would feel cheated. They’d have to start this fresh on a new title right from the first day it was published and the next Players Handbook seems like a logical choice to celebrate its publication.
No, It is not impossible, its actually easy even w/o unique numbers just take a picture of you with your book like every bank does.
Yes, it's expensive if you think 10k/year to keep this software+people sharing books is expensive for then
Just make your own tools if you are unhappy with Beyond's prices and you think it is so easy and quick to do.
Beyond's employees got bills to pay and families to feed, so why should they be working for free for you? Why should Wizards pay out of their own pockets to give you free digital products?
No, It is not impossible, its actually easy even w/o unique numbers just take a picture of you with your book like every bank does.
Yes, it's expensive if you think 10k/year to keep this software+people sharing books is expensive for then
Just make your own tools if you are unhappy with Beyond's prices and you think it is so easy and quick to do.
Beyond's employees got bills to pay and families to feed, so why should they be working for free for you? Why should Wizards pay out of their own pockets to give you free digital products?
We actually agree on a lot of points.
Nobody’s working for free. Yes the software is expensive to code and maintain. Yes DnD Beyond is amazing and the people who do this work deserve to be paid for the excellent work they do. Yes, we should be paying for amazing digital products like these.
Everybody who’s arguing that bundling would never happen seem to think that WoTC would instantly lose half of their DnD revenue if they bundled. if this was the case then of course they’d never do that. The point I’m trying to make is that, in the long run, WoTC might actually make MORE money if they offered bundles.
It may seem counterintuitive but there’s a lot of marketing and strategy factors that would go into a decision like this. I’ve already mentioned 2 very viable reasons they might consider this.
The people who make these decisions probably have a lot of experience and market research at their disposal. They’re also probably paid a lot of money. I’m sure they’ve at least considered it and I really wouldn’t be surprised if it started happening with one of the next huge releases (like the next Players handbook for example). The ability to offer options like this may have even been one of the factors that played into their decision to buy DnD Beyond.
It may seem counterintuitive but there’s a lot of marketing and strategy factors that would go into a decision like this. I’ve already mentioned 2 very viable reasons they might consider this.
The people who make these decisions probably have a lot of experience and market research at their disposal. They’re also probably paid a lot of money. I’m sure they’ve at least considered it and I really wouldn’t be surprised if it started happening with one of the next huge releases (like the next Players handbook for example). The ability to offer options like this may have even been one of the factors that played into their decision to buy DnD Beyond.
They have already considered it, and have not acted on it on this information for years, so I really do not think they are moving towards bundling physical and digital products across their product line at all. They also stopped giving away codes from the physical boxed Essentials Kit recently, so there are NO bundles at all right now. The only foreseeable physical-digital bundle is the upcoming Starter Set. If they cannot even be bothered to keep giving away codes for their only former-bundled product, they are not going to expand those bundles into books.
They bought Beyond because Beyond is a cash cow, and they want to keep more of the revenue that Beyond makes rather than paying it to Fandom. Seeing the move as a way to get physical-digital products for the price of one is wishful thinking in my opinion.
It may seem counterintuitive but there’s a lot of marketing and strategy factors that would go into a decision like this. I’ve already mentioned 2 very viable reasons they might consider this.
The people who make these decisions probably have a lot of experience and market research at their disposal. They’re also probably paid a lot of money. I’m sure they’ve at least considered it and I really wouldn’t be surprised if it started happening with one of the next huge releases (like the next Players handbook for example). The ability to offer options like this may have even been one of the factors that played into their decision to buy DnD Beyond.
They have already considered it, and have not acted on it on this information for years, so I really do not think they are moving towards bundling physical and digital products across their product line at all. They also stopped giving away codes from the physical boxed Essentials Kit recently, so there are NO bundles at all right now. The only foreseeable physical-digital bundle is the upcoming Starter Set. If they cannot even be bothered to keep giving away codes for their only former-bundled product, they are not going to expand those bundles into books.
They bought Beyond because Beyond is a cash cow, and they want to keep more of the revenue that Beyond makes rather than paying it to Fandom. Seeing the move as a way to get physical-digital products for the price of one is wishful thinking in my opinion.
Yeah, you may be right that it’s wishful thinking, but I wouldn’t count it out. it might not make sense for them and they may never do it
My only point is that I wouldn’t count it out. There’s many ways they could integrate their products which would benefit them. Another benefit is that bundling would also allow them to associate physical book purchases with digital profiles, thereby allowing them to more accurately track who is buying their physical products. There’s significant monetary value in that type of market data and I’m sure there’s other benefits that people smarter than me about this stuff have thought about.
I also don’t think it’s a fair to compare what they have done to date with what they may decide to do in the future. I know they haven’t done much bundling in the past, but the incentives would not have been as strong when DnD Beyond was a separate company. WoTC’s purchase of DnD Beyond changes things. Yes, I agree that the revenue that it generates was likely the largest factor in their decision to purchase it, but now that they own it they can do all sorts of creative things.
No, It is not impossible, its actually easy even w/o unique numbers just take a picture of you with your book like every bank does.
Yes, it's expensive if you think 10k/year to keep this software+people sharing books is expensive for then
I agree that it probably wouldn’t be that difficult for them to do from a technical standpoint, but it would probably still take years because they’d probably want to test the strategy on a few products at a time to make sure it worked before they went all in.
Also, $10k a year seems a bit ridiculous. It probably costs them that much every month for server costs alone. I bet a conservative estimate for what it costs to run DnD Beyond is probably closer to, at least, $500k a year at the low end. Probably much higher. That being said, it may still make economic sense for them to bundle. Only their executive officers know the answer to that question though.
How could it possibly make economic sense for them to bundle their physical and digital products for 1 price? D&D doesn't have the competition to drive wholesale product discounts like that. Specials and promotions are probably the only thing in the foreseeable future. As XXXGammaRay said, they'll probably bundle starter sets to get a new customer hooked. Get the people addicted then you can charge what you like. Unfettered capitalism FOR THE WIN BABY!
How could it possibly make economic sense for them to bundle their physical and digital products for 1 price? D&D doesn't have the competition to drive wholesale product discounts like that. Specials and promotions are probably the only thing in the foreseeable future. As XXXGammaRay said, they'll probably bundle starter sets to get a new customer hooked. Get the people addicted then you can charge what you like. Unfettered capitalism FOR THE WIN BABY!
Take a look at some of my previous posts. In short, digital customers who invest in the platform, buy their books digitally, and pay monthly subscription fees are, from a profit stand point, WAAAY more valuable to WoTC than pen and paper players who only buy a copy of the paper book once and share it with their player groups free of charge. Converting as many pen and paper players to the digital platform as possible would lead to the largest long term growth in profits for WoTC.
In summary: 1) Bundling would allow WoTC to associate physical purchases with player accounts giving them further insight into buying habits and other consumer information. This is very valuable market data which would be currently difficult to obtain in great detail.
2) They have mentioned they are working to build a digital platform for DnD. DnD Beyond is likely the core of this platform and bundling would acclimate pen and paper players to the digital tools and promote migration to the digital platform. A certain percentage of these converts will become subscribers, leading to an increase in DnD Beyond subscription revenue and further boosting profits.
3) Similar to point 2, many of those pen and paper players introduced to the platform by a bundled product will likely appreciate how fantastic this site is and there will then be a conversion rate as a certain percentage of these people realize they don’t really need the paper books and decide to start buying books digitally only. This is a huge win for WoTC because the profit margins are higher on the digital products.
4) WoTC could charge a premium for the bundled “Deluxe Editions” of the paper books which include a digital code, thereby increasing the revenue per unit sold without significantly increasing printing and distribution/shipping costs.
5) Creating a bundled deluxe edition also allows for multi-tiered pricing as customers who are not willing to pay for the premium for the bundled edition could still pay the lower price for the normal paper version or, better yet for WoTC, pay a similar price for the digital only version.
These are just some of the ways I can think of off the cuff which would be beneficial to WoTC and lead to higher overall profits. Not to mention it would be enormously popular with fans and fan loyalty has tangible economic value as well.
No, It is not impossible, its actually easy even w/o unique numbers just take a picture of you with your book like every bank does.
Yes, it's expensive if you think 10k/year to keep this software+people sharing books is expensive for then
What’s to stop you and your friends all chipping in to buy one book and then passing it around for the photo shoots?
Could they not just use ISBNs of physical books and only allow one account to redeem a code tied to that specific ISBN? I may be misunderstanding ISBNs.
No, It is not impossible, its actually easy even w/o unique numbers just take a picture of you with your book like every bank does.
Yes, it's expensive if you think 10k/year to keep this software+people sharing books is expensive for then
What’s to stop you and your friends all chipping in to buy one book and then passing it around for the photo shoots?
Could they not just use ISBNs of physical books and only allow one account to redeem a code tied to that specific ISBN? I may be misunderstanding ISBNs.
Every English language copy of each book uses the same ISBN. Every PHB uses the same ISBN, every DMG uses the same ISBN…. So no, they can’t do that.
No, It is not impossible, its actually easy even w/o unique numbers just take a picture of you with your book like every bank does.
Yes, it's expensive if you think 10k/year to keep this software+people sharing books is expensive for then
What’s to stop you and your friends all chipping in to buy one book and then passing it around for the photo shoots?
Could they not just use ISBNs of physical books and only allow one account to redeem a code tied to that specific ISBN? I may be misunderstanding ISBNs.
As has been said a number of times before—probably even in this thread- ISBNs are not unique per copy. They are unique per title. Every PHB has the same ISBN. Every DMG has the same ISBN.
Yeah, at a minimum, bundling them would likely increase the price to double to about $60. Textbook price tags are an overlooked reason why they are not a very good example on how it could be done while avoiding the "paying twice" complaint.
Honestly, I am just waiting to see what happens and not buying digital or physical. I'll give it a year.
I think you’re misunderstanding what I’m trying to say. They wouldn’t be “giving away” any coding time, money, or effort for free. Yes those things are expensive and valuable but, now that the companies are merged, the money that pays for those things is now coming from the overall profit margins It doesn’t matter if someone buys the physical book or the DnD Beyond access, those profits will go to support the developers. Therefore, if bundling the products results in more overall sales, then they’re not giving anything away, they’re actually making way more money There’s also the chance that bundling wouldn’t increase sales though. If that’s the case, then it would make less sense, but I don’t know what their marketing research looks like.
the other scenario is that bundling might not increase overall sales, but it still makes sense for them because it might promote the site and convert more paper people to digital players. I’m an example of this. I only recently tried DnD Beyond, but I’m already sold and I’m pretty sure I’ll never buy another physical book. Converting people like me might be worth taking an upfront hit to their profits in exchange for a longer term payout. After all, I guarantee that DnD Beyond has a higher profit margin for WoTC given the costs of printing and physical distribution that eats into the profit margins of the physical books. It might be worth their money to invest in bundling the digital and physical books so that more people try DnD Beyond and realize they don’t need to buy the physical books anymore. They’ll never get rid of physical books completely, but the more people that buy then digital version only the better.
I doubt they’d ever bundle any of the currently published books; it would upset too many people who have already bought both versions, but it may be something they try when the next players handbook is ready.
Why do you think it would double the price? I’ve been buying text books for a long time and the prices didn’t change when they started bundling them with digital editions. They’ve always been ridiculously expense. I have text books topping 3000 pages; split into multiple volumes and all printed in full colour on gloss paper. These things cost a fortune to print and ship yet, page-for-page, they’re actually cheaper than DnD books.
If WoTC decides to bundled them, it would likely be a business decision with the goal to either promote the DnD Beyond platform or to drive overall sales. I doubt they’d increase the prices by much, if at all.
MSRP + $10 for a sealed copy with a 1 time redeemable code for dndbeyond. That would be the only way I see this idea ever happening.
How to: Replace DEX in your AC | Jump & Suffocation stats | Build a (Spell & class effect buff system | Wild Shape effect system) | Tool Proficiencies as Custom Skills | Spells at higher levels explained | Superior Fighting/Martial Adept Fix | Snippet Codes Explored - Subclasses | Snippet Math Theory | Homebrew Weapons Explained
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Yeah, I agree. And it probably would never happen on any of the currently published books; it’d upset all of the people who’ve already bought both versions. Those people are the biggest fans and it’d be a really dumb move for WoTC to alienate them. If WoTC is considering something like this, I’d be surprised if it came about before the 5.5 edition.
i probably wouldn’t hold your breath. I’d be shocked if they did it on any of the books that are already published. It’s be a dumb move because it would really upset all of their biggest fans who’ve already bought both copies. Even all of the people who’ve only bought the digital copies would feel cheated. They’d have to start this fresh on a new title right from the first day it was published and the next Players Handbook seems like a logical choice to celebrate its publication.
No, It does not take months.
No, It is not impossible, its actually easy even w/o unique numbers just take a picture of you with your book like every bank does.
Yes, it's expensive if you think 10k/year to keep this software+people sharing books is expensive for then
What’s to stop you and your friends all chipping in to buy one book and then passing it around for the photo shoots?
Creating Epic Boons on DDB
DDB Buyers' Guide
Hardcovers, DDB & You
Content Troubleshooting
Just make your own tools if you are unhappy with Beyond's prices and you think it is so easy and quick to do.
Beyond's employees got bills to pay and families to feed, so why should they be working for free for you? Why should Wizards pay out of their own pockets to give you free digital products?
Check Licenses and Resync Entitlements: < https://www.dndbeyond.com/account/licenses >
Running the Game by Matt Colville; Introduction: < https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e-YZvLUXcR8 >
D&D with High School Students by Bill Allen; Season 1 Episode 1: < https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=52NJTUDokyk&t >
We actually agree on a lot of points.
Nobody’s working for free. Yes the software is expensive to code and maintain. Yes DnD Beyond is amazing and the people who do this work deserve to be paid for the excellent work they do. Yes, we should be paying for amazing digital products like these.
Everybody who’s arguing that bundling would never happen seem to think that WoTC would instantly lose half of their DnD revenue if they bundled. if this was the case then of course they’d never do that. The point I’m trying to make is that, in the long run, WoTC might actually make MORE money if they offered bundles.
It may seem counterintuitive but there’s a lot of marketing and strategy factors that would go into a decision like this. I’ve already mentioned 2 very viable reasons they might consider this.
The people who make these decisions probably have a lot of experience and market research at their disposal. They’re also probably paid a lot of money. I’m sure they’ve at least considered it and I really wouldn’t be surprised if it started happening with one of the next huge releases (like the next Players handbook for example). The ability to offer options like this may have even been one of the factors that played into their decision to buy DnD Beyond.
They have already considered it, and have not acted on it on this information for years, so I really do not think they are moving towards bundling physical and digital products across their product line at all. They also stopped giving away codes from the physical boxed Essentials Kit recently, so there are NO bundles at all right now. The only foreseeable physical-digital bundle is the upcoming Starter Set. If they cannot even be bothered to keep giving away codes for their only former-bundled product, they are not going to expand those bundles into books.
They bought Beyond because Beyond is a cash cow, and they want to keep more of the revenue that Beyond makes rather than paying it to Fandom. Seeing the move as a way to get physical-digital products for the price of one is wishful thinking in my opinion.
Check Licenses and Resync Entitlements: < https://www.dndbeyond.com/account/licenses >
Running the Game by Matt Colville; Introduction: < https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e-YZvLUXcR8 >
D&D with High School Students by Bill Allen; Season 1 Episode 1: < https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=52NJTUDokyk&t >
Yeah, you may be right that it’s wishful thinking, but I wouldn’t count it out. it might not make sense for them and they may never do it
My only point is that I wouldn’t count it out. There’s many ways they could integrate their products which would benefit them. Another benefit is that bundling would also allow them to associate physical book purchases with digital profiles, thereby allowing them to more accurately track who is buying their physical products. There’s significant monetary value in that type of market data and I’m sure there’s other benefits that people smarter than me about this stuff have thought about.
I also don’t think it’s a fair to compare what they have done to date with what they may decide to do in the future. I know they haven’t done much bundling in the past, but the incentives would not have been as strong when DnD Beyond was a separate company. WoTC’s purchase of DnD Beyond changes things. Yes, I agree that the revenue that it generates was likely the largest factor in their decision to purchase it, but now that they own it they can do all sorts of creative things.
I agree that it probably wouldn’t be that difficult for them to do from a technical standpoint, but it would probably still take years because they’d probably want to test the strategy on a few products at a time to make sure it worked before they went all in.
Also, $10k a year seems a bit ridiculous. It probably costs them that much every month for server costs alone. I bet a conservative estimate for what it costs to run DnD Beyond is probably closer to, at least, $500k a year at the low end. Probably much higher. That being said, it may still make economic sense for them to bundle. Only their executive officers know the answer to that question though.
How could it possibly make economic sense for them to bundle their physical and digital products for 1 price? D&D doesn't have the competition to drive wholesale product discounts like that. Specials and promotions are probably the only thing in the foreseeable future. As XXXGammaRay said, they'll probably bundle starter sets to get a new customer hooked. Get the people addicted then you can charge what you like. Unfettered capitalism FOR THE WIN BABY!
How to: Replace DEX in your AC | Jump & Suffocation stats | Build a (Spell & class effect buff system | Wild Shape effect system) | Tool Proficiencies as Custom Skills | Spells at higher levels explained | Superior Fighting/Martial Adept Fix | Snippet Codes Explored - Subclasses | Snippet Math Theory | Homebrew Weapons Explained
Check out my: FEATS | MAGIC ITEMS | MONSTERS | SUBCLASSES Artificer Specialist: Weaveblade
Dndbeyond images not loading A PERMANENT WORKAROUND!!! (thank you Jay_Lane)
Take a look at some of my previous posts. In short, digital customers who invest in the platform, buy their books digitally, and pay monthly subscription fees are, from a profit stand point, WAAAY more valuable to WoTC than pen and paper players who only buy a copy of the paper book once and share it with their player groups free of charge. Converting as many pen and paper players to the digital platform as possible would lead to the largest long term growth in profits for WoTC.
In summary:
1) Bundling would allow WoTC to associate physical purchases with player accounts giving them further insight into buying habits and other consumer information. This is very valuable market data which would be currently difficult to obtain in great detail.
2) They have mentioned they are working to build a digital platform for DnD. DnD Beyond is likely the core of this platform and bundling would acclimate pen and paper players to the digital tools and promote migration to the digital platform. A certain percentage of these converts will become subscribers, leading to an increase in DnD Beyond subscription revenue and further boosting profits.
3) Similar to point 2, many of those pen and paper players introduced to the platform by a bundled product will likely appreciate how fantastic this site is and there will then be a conversion rate as a certain percentage of these people realize they don’t really need the paper books and decide to start buying books digitally only. This is a huge win for WoTC because the profit margins are higher on the digital products.
4) WoTC could charge a premium for the bundled “Deluxe Editions” of the paper books which include a digital code, thereby increasing the revenue per unit sold without significantly increasing printing and distribution/shipping costs.
5) Creating a bundled deluxe edition also allows for multi-tiered pricing as customers who are not willing to pay for the premium for the bundled edition could still pay the lower price for the normal paper version or, better yet for WoTC, pay a similar price for the digital only version.
These are just some of the ways I can think of off the cuff which would be beneficial to WoTC and lead to higher overall profits. Not to mention it would be enormously popular with fans and fan loyalty has tangible economic value as well.
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Could they not just use ISBNs of physical books and only allow one account to redeem a code tied to that specific ISBN? I may be misunderstanding ISBNs.
Every English language copy of each book uses the same ISBN. Every PHB uses the same ISBN, every DMG uses the same ISBN…. So no, they can’t do that.
Creating Epic Boons on DDB
DDB Buyers' Guide
Hardcovers, DDB & You
Content Troubleshooting
As has been said a number of times before—probably even in this thread- ISBNs are not unique per copy. They are unique per title. Every PHB has the same ISBN. Every DMG has the same ISBN.
Trying to Decide if DDB is for you? A few helpful threads: A Buyer's Guide to DDB; What I/We Bought and Why; How some DMs use DDB; A Newer Thread on Using DDB to Play
Helpful threads on other topics: Homebrew FAQ by IamSposta; Accessing Content by ConalTheGreat;
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