"If you buy a copy of a book at your local Barnes & Nobles, do you go onto your digital device and demand a free digital download as well “because you already payed for one copy?” " Absolutely.
The value of the book is the information contained within and the material it's printed on. The value of the digital copy is the information (which you've already paid for and own) and the extra functionality of DnD beyond's service.
The real problem is that the two products are inextricable. People want to buy DnD beyond's extra functionality without purchasing the information they already own.
It's a null point since there's feasible solution, but acting like this isn't a problem makes you look silly.
Additionally, your analogy doesn't work. A more accurate analogy would be: you buy a videogame, and later they release DLC, but there's no way to purchase the DLC on it's own. Instead you have to purchase the game again for full price.
"If you buy a copy of a book at your local Barnes & Nobles, do you go onto your digital device and demand a free digital download as well “because you already payed for one copy?” " Absolutely.
The value of the book is the intellectual property contained within and the material it's printed on. The value of the digital copy is the intellectual property (which you've already paid for and own) and the extra functionality of DnD beyond's service.
The real problem is that the two products are inextricable. People want to buy DnD beyond's extra functionality without purchasing the intellectual property they already own.
It's a null point since there's feasible solution, but acting like this isn't a problem makes you look silly.
But “you” don’t “own” the intellectual property, WotC does. You just paid to access it. If the actual owner chooses to not give out access two ways for the price of one, that’s their prerogative.
The real problem is that the two products are inextricable. People want to buy DnD beyond's extra functionality without purchasing the information they already own.
It's a null point since there's feasible solution, but acting like this isn't a problem makes you look silly.
If I can just direct your attention to the DDB marketplace. Click a book and scroll down.
You will see that the D&D Beyond functionality is available for individual purchase separate from the compendium and for less than buying the entire book.
You're right everything you said IS a null point. Why'd you bother?
That's true for PHB, but for Tasha's cauldron of everything, the price of the DnD Beyond functionality is $34.95, more than the book.
For the player's hand book, the DnD Beyond functionality is for sale at $25.95, so, about a 13% discount from the bundle. That's actually more than the digital book without the functionality ($19.99).
If the bundle is the sum of their prices without a discount, then that would put the functionality at $10.00, less than two fifths of it's actual price. OR, assuming 25.95 is it's actually price, that means the bundle is at a 35% discount, which is ridiculous.
Either way, for people who already own the books, the functionality on it's own is massively overpriced. Not that there's a feasible solution anyway.
That's true for PHB, but for Tasha's cauldron of everything, the price of the DnD Beyond functionality is $34.95, more than the book.
For the player's hand book, the DnD Beyond functionality is for sale at $25.95, so, about a 13% discount from the bundle. That's actually more than the digital book without the functionality ($19.99).
If the bundle is the sum of their prices without a discount, then that would put the functionality at $10.00, less than two fifths of it's actual price. OR, assuming 25.95 is it's actually price, that means the bundle is at a 35% discount, which is ridiculous.
Either way, for people who already own the books, the functionality on it's own is massively overpriced. Not that there's a feasible solution anyway.
Where do you buy your physical books that they're so cheap? Most if not all D&D books go for around EUR 45,- around here.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Leaving OGL 1.0(a) untouched and making SRD 5.1 CC-BY-4.0 is a great first step. The next is a promise to do the same for future editions. Here's a discussion thread on that.
Either way, for people who already own the books, the functionality on it's own is massively overpriced. Not that there's a feasible solution anyway.
I own many of the physical books and I bought them here too. 'Overpriced' is a subjective term that means different things to each individual. This site is not necessary to play the game and frankly, neither are the books whether they be physical or digital. It is not the objective of any for-profit business to tap literally every interested party because there will always be people who are interested, but who want to pay nothing. The goal is to find the WTP for the majority and set the price of the product within that range. DDB and other sites have found that price point. You do not find value in it and therefore are outside of the WTP, but you are a minority of the potential consumer population. That is a guarantee because if it were not true, the prices would adjust to capture a more optimal percentage of potential consumers. You have determined that the functionality of the site is not worth the value of your dollar. That is only true for you. Regardless, the site features are still available to you and if DDB is not worth your dollar, perhaps it is worth your time; you can simply make copies of official content as private homebrew for $0.
That's true for PHB, but for Tasha's cauldron of everything, the price of the DnD Beyond functionality is $34.95, more than the book.
For the player's hand book, the DnD Beyond functionality is for sale at $25.95, so, about a 13% discount from the bundle. That's actually more than the digital book without the functionality ($19.99).
If the bundle is the sum of their prices without a discount, then that would put the functionality at $10.00, less than two fifths of it's actual price. OR, assuming 25.95 is it's actually price, that means the bundle is at a 35% discount, which is ridiculous.
Either way, for people who already own the books, the functionality on it's own is massively overpriced. Not that there's a feasible solution anyway.
Yet this massively overpriced scheme has been operating under its pricing model for going on four years ... and got bought by the D&D WotC ... not as a gesture of charity to unshackle D&D online resources from an oppressive pricing scheme ... but as a way to make more money.
I mean, some of the Beadle and Grimm stuff looks way cool, but I just don't have the need to buy into the hobby that deeply. Miniatures are neat too, but I just can't justify the cost for pieces of plastic or even metal. At the end of the day, D&D Beyond is there to "enhance" or "facilitate" play for those who want to buy into it.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Jander Sunstar is the thinking person's Drizzt, fight me.
To Z3DT I'm only talking about digital books, sorry for any confusion.
To Sposta Nope, your 👖 are on 🔥. You should make sure you didn't misread something before you act cocky.
Functionality for subclasses is $9.99
Plus functionality for feats is $15.98 Plus functionality for magic items is $25.97 Plus functionality for monsters is $28.96 Plus functionality for spells is $34.95
DxJxC claimed that "D&D Beyond functionality is available [...] for less than buying the entire book." and while that is true, (if only slightly cheaper), that is NOT true for Tasha's Cauldron of Everything. Exactly like I said before, for Tasha's Cauldron of Everything, the price of the DnD Beyond functionality is $34.95, more than the book (the functionality + the compendium).
Also, to your first reply, intellectual property wasn't the right word, I've changed it.
To Erik Soong I agree that from a business perspective, they've priced everything reasonably. What I'm trying to say is that their prices are mathematically inconsistent, in one of 3 possible ways.
For Tasha's Cauldron, the functionality is $34.95, the compendium is $19.99, and the bundle is $29.99. The bundle is the sum of their contents, but not the sum of their price, which means that their actual prices must be different than their listed prices
So assuming that the functionality and compendium are full price, that means that the bundle is a 46% discount. Another possibility is that the compendium and bundle are full price, that would put the functionality at $10.00, that's $24.95 overpriced, or 349.5%. The last possibility is that the functionality, and bundle are full price, that would put the compendium at -$4.96. That's not really an option for Tasha's cauldron, but it could be for the PHB. Those are the only three options.
I can say with 100% certainty that either the bundle is 46% discounted, or the functionality on it's own is 349.5% of it's actual price. Or, it could be some combination of options above. Those are truly the only options, mathematically proven.
So, now I'm gonna speculate about why everything is either massively over or underpriced.
I believe that the functionality is not intended to be bought on it's own. There's no function on DnD Beyond to buy the complete functionality, separate from the compendium, directly. You can only buy the 5 individual categories, listed above. Now, from those categories, you can buy their individual items. The total price of all of the individual items is $119.84.
The categories are discounted from their individual components (by about 71%), and I bet if the functionality on it's own was for sale, it would be discounted from it's individual components. The functionality on it's own is not for sale, except through purchase of every category, which is almost certainly not the intended use of the categories being purchasable, as shown by the pricing of the individual items. Which leads us back to the original problem, the functionality is meant to be inextricable from the compendium, which people may already own in paper form.
Additionally, I imagine the reason that the functionality is not for sale is because DnD Beyond is worried that it might act as a replacement for the compendium, which, whether or not it's true, is irrelevant considering replacements for the compendium, in the form of DnD wiki pages, have existed for years.
I am SORRY all of that is a pain in the ass to read. I wanted to be thorough.
P.S. I have no idea how to show in my message who I'm replying to, without looking like someone who's never used the internet before.
The real problem is that the two products are inextricable. People want to buy DnD beyond's extra functionality without purchasing the information they already own.
It's a null point since there's feasible solution, but acting like this isn't a problem makes you look silly.
Beyond and Wizards do not have to cater to every customer's needs, wants, and desires. They are in the business to make money, and as corporations, they are in it to maximize profits since that is what a majority of shareholders can agree on. If Beyond and Wizards can make more money by not offering a product, they will not offer that product.
To Erik Soong I agree that from a business perspective, they've priced everything reasonably. What I'm trying to say is that their prices are mathematically inconsistent, in one of 3 possible ways.
So, now I'm gonna speculate about why everything is either massively over or underpriced.
What matters is the business perspective. Surface level mathematical consistency is irrelevant. Companies frequently "overprice" and "underprice" their products to drive sales and maximize profits.
Overpricing on certain products happen to push the perception that other products are priced more "reasonably" so customers will be more likely to purchase those items. For example, some McDonald's in my area lately increased their price, and some are selling 40 McNuggets for $11.00 but 20 McNuggets for $5.29. While the customer is going balk at the price increase regardless, it will still soften the mental blow somewhat by giving the perception that 20 McNuggets for $5.29 is still a decent deal.
I believe that the functionality is not intended to be bought on it's own. There's no function on DnD Beyond to buy the complete functionality, separate from the compendium, directly. You can only buy the 5 individual categories, listed above. Now, from those categories, you can buy their individual items.
The functionality on it's own is not for sale, except through purchase of every category, which is almost certainly not the intended use of the categories being purchasable, as shown by the pricing of the individual items. Which leads us back to the original problem, the functionality is meant to be inextricable from the compendium, which people may already own in paper form.
Additionally, I imagine the reason that the functionality is not for sale is because DnD Beyond is worried that it might act as a replacement for the compendium, which, whether or not it's true, is irrelevant considering replacements for the compendium, in the form of DnD wiki pages, have existed for years.
Just because piracy exists does not mean you should lower prices to compete with piracy, especially if doing so does not maximize profit. If anything, raising prices to recoup loss sales because of piracy is also a valid reason if it still maximizes profits.
Again, what matters is the business perspective. What is irrelevant is the appearance of mathematical consistency.
I'm glad you enjoy Beyond maximizing their profit margins at the expense of their userbase. I don't.
The first words of my reply to Erik Soong were "I agree that from a business perspective, they've priced everything reasonably". None of my messages are trying to prove that Beyond is making a poor business decision.
Your response doesn't address my arguments in any way, and I'm shocked that anyone would think like you. "My boss pays me minimum wage because he can, just like he should!".
I'm glad you enjoy Beyond maximizing their profit margins at the expense of their userbase. I don't.
The first words of my reply to Erik Soong were "I agree that from a business perspective, they've priced everything reasonably". None of my messages are trying to prove that Beyond is making a poor business decision.
Your response doesn't address my arguments in any way, and I'm shocked that anyone would think like you. "My boss pays me minimum wage because he can, just like he should!".
I do not see this as taking advantage of customers. TTRPGs are not some essential products or service that people depend on to survive, and D&D ultimately can still be played for free with just the Basic Rules/SRD, EEPC, and MCV1SC, and whatever free UA and third party homebrew that can be found on here and elsewhere.
I see the constant nickeling and diming as people not valuing the effort that employees put into their work.
"If you buy a copy of a book at your local Barnes & Nobles, do you go onto your digital device and demand a free digital download as well “because you already payed for one copy?” " Absolutely.
If you go to Barnes & Nobles to buy a book do you then go to Amazon with your hands out for a digital copy?
It would be one thing if you bought the book from Wizards of the Coast and then went to Wizards of the Coast for the digital copy. In this case - not counting the acquisition because this thread pre-dates it - you're doing the former. You're going to DnD Beyond with your hands out for a digital copy of something you bought from someone else.
Now that WotC has acquired DnD Beyond you might actually have a leg to stand on with this topic since, in this case, you'd be doing the latter.
I do not see this as taking advantage of customers. TTRPGs are not some essential products or service that people depend on to survive, and D&D ultimately can still be played for free with just the Basic Rules/SRD, EEPC, and MCV1SC, and whatever free UA and third party homebrew that can be found on here and elsewhere.
If you don't see it as taking advantage of customers, you should have explained your reasoning in your initial response. That's what the entire conversation has been about. Do you not consider it taking advantage of customers simply because it's optional? That's a pretty weak argument. Often times, people take advantage of others in relationships, and relationships are completely optional, meaning that you can take advantage of someone using something completely optional.
I'm curious what you all think of this hypothetical. Let's say I already own the digital copy of Tasha's Cauldron (without the functionality). I bought the compendium only for $19.99. Then I decide I want to buy the DnD Beyond functionality. That's going to cost me at LEAST $29.99. The bundle is my cheapest option.
This means that for me, the minimum price of the functionality is the SAME as the price of the bundle which includes the compendium.
Does the value of this purchase match the price? In this scenario, it is IMPOSSIBLE for the value of the functionality to match it's price, unless the compendium is worth nothing, in which case, the value of the compendium I bought cannot match the price. If the value is higher than the price, that is overpaying.
It is MATHMATICALLY IMPOSSIBLE for someone who's bought the compendium to buy the functionality without overpaying. PERIOD. If we assume the value of a book is the information contained within, then this is all true of the physical version as well.
Unless DnD beyond has some special secret discount for people who've bought the digital compendium, which I suppose is a possibility. That's what steam does for bundles.
It would be one thing if you bought the book from Wizards of the Coast and then went to Wizards of the Coast for the digital copy. In this case - not counting the acquisition because this thread pre-dates it - you're doing the former. You're going to DnD Beyond with your hands out for a digital copy of something you bought from someone else.
Yeah, that's completely valid. I didn't think about that when I posted my first message
I do not see this as taking advantage of customers. TTRPGs are not some essential products or service that people depend on to survive, and D&D ultimately can still be played for free with just the Basic Rules/SRD, EEPC, and MCV1SC, and whatever free UA and third party homebrew that can be found on here and elsewhere.
If you don't see it as taking advantage of customers, you should have explained your reasoning in your initial response. That's what the entire conversation has been about. Do you not consider it taking advantage of customers simply because it's optional? That's a pretty weak argument. Often times, people take advantage of others in relationships, and relationships are completely optional, meaning that you can take advantage of someone using something completely optional.
Not only is Beyond completely optional and unnecessary to play D&D, you can also import the stuff in your physical books into the digital tools without spending a penny. You will have to do it manually and it will definitely take a lot of time, but I think that is totally fair for people to pay for it one way or another, whether that is in time or in money. Not selling the digital tools by itself as a stand alone product hardly constitutes as taking advantage of customers in my opinion, and there are things that Beyond and Wizards have done that I think are far worse.
I'm curious what you all think of this hypothetical. Let's say I already own the digital copy of Tasha's Cauldron (without the functionality). I bought the compendium only for $19.99. Then I decide I want to buy the DnD Beyond functionality. That's going to cost me at LEAST $29.99. The bundle is my cheapest option.
That is NOT how Beyond's pricing system works. You are NOT going to pay another $29.99 for getting the functionality. Whatever amount you have purchased for piecemeal content for a book will count towards that book's future full purchase. If you already paid $19.99 for the compendium content and want to get the full functionality later, you only need to spend another $10.00 on the book.
While it is possible to spend over the cost of the full book, you can contact support later and have them fix that and refund the money you overpaid back to you.
Yeah, that's completely valid. I didn't think about that when I posted my first message
I would argue this is not even a leg to stand on, and it illustrates my point that customers keep nickeling and diming businesses for whatever reason they can find. The average consumer have little to no idea on how much it costs to run a business. A change in ownership might mitigate and reduce some costs like admin and HR, but it has little effect on costs directly related to production like labor, materials, equipment, etc., especially if the new ownership have little previous involvement in the industry it is setting its foot in. If anything, cost of specialized labor like software development may even increase during ownership/management change, since not everyone is necessarily willing to put up with a change in work environment, especially if it feels worse for employees being acquired, so you need to pay them more to incentivize them to stay long enough until their departure would not negatively affect the business. If Hasbro is going to acquire Pathfinder, then sure, there maybe some further marginal savings by having D&D and Pathfinder teams share even more resources, but you probably still need two distinct and separate development teams to keep both going at the same pace as they did before the acquisition.
It costs money to employ people to implement the compendium content. Just because I own Fire Emlem Warriors on my 3DS does not mean I also get to own it on my Switch, whether that be free or at a discount. Even though many assets are recycled and reused, that does not mean it is cheap to port things over. Even if it is cheap to port things over, it makes no sense for Nintendo to base the price of the Switch version to be only on the porting cost.
I'm curious what you all think of this hypothetical. Let's say I already own the digital copy of Tasha's Cauldron (without the functionality). I bought the compendium only for $19.99. Then I decide I want to buy the DnD Beyond functionality. That's going to cost me at LEAST $29.99. The bundle is my cheapest option.
That is NOT how Beyond's pricing system works. You are NOT going to pay another $29.99 for getting the functionality. Whatever amount you have purchased for piecemeal content for a book will count towards that book's future full purchase. If you already paid $19.99 for the compendium content and want to get the full functionality later, you only need to spend another $10.00 on the book.
That's good to know. Judging by your response, it looks like we agree that it would be ridiculous. It looks like DnD Beyond agrees based on the discount policy you described. Please take a second to think about why DnD Beyond would lower the price of the book for people who already own the compendium.
That's not an option for people with physical prints of the book. There's no way for the value of the purchase to match the price. Digital or physical, DDB or WotC, it does not matter. The company's business model is irrelevant to the user experience. It is just as silly for physical owners as it would be for compendium owners, for the exact same reason.
They are selling a product for a price that we have established is unfair. If that's what they have to do to keep from going bankrupt, that's fine. But people come to forums to express their complaints, and they're bombarded with responses pretending it's completely fair. And it's embarrassingly easy to show why that's wrong.
Just because I own Fire Emlem Warriors on my 3DS does not mean I also get to own it on my Switch, whether that be free or at a discount. Even though many assets are recycled and reused, that does not mean it is cheap to port things over. Even if it is cheap to port things over, it makes no sense for Nintendo to base the price of the Switch version to be only on the porting cost.
There are a lot of bad analogies in this thread. A more accurate analogy would be: You want to buy Fire Emblem Warriors for your 3ds, but it's not for sale. You instead have to buy a new 3ds that comes with Fire Emblem Warriors.
DnD Beyond is selling a product that you cannot buy on it's own. You have to buy another product that you may already own. It is that simple, and it's as dumb as it sounds. Just take the L.
Edit: Your analogy is fine actually, I thought that was in response to me. My mistake. My analogy is still good too though.
One of the biggest issues being ignored in the thread is that buying the full book if you’ve purchased part of it is discounted by the price of the already purchased parts.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Coriana - Company of the Grey Chain Wagner - Dragon Heist: Bards. DM - The Old Keep
"For Tasha's Cauldron, the functionality is $34.95, the compendium is $19.99, and the bundle is $29.99. The bundle is the sum of their contents, but not the sum of their price, which means that their actual prices must be different than their listed prices"
You've got a fundamental misunderstand of the service here, I think. The ala carte "functionality" purchases were never intended to be the way you buy everything from a book. That was provided as an option for people who didn't need a full book, but instead only wanted to pick up a single subclass, just the feats, or whatever. In almost every case, purchasing everything that way would add up to more than the $29.99 full book price. And actually, if you buy a few pieces initially, then decide to get everything, the cost of those piecemeal purchases is deducted from the full price, so you can't pay more than $29.99, as I understand it.
So - if you only want a digital copy of the book, it's the $19.99 Compendium. If you intend to use the tool that DDB provides, it's $29.99 "full" price. Both less expensive than a physical book.
EDIT: I didn't get caught up to the latest posts, sorry. I see some of this was already covered by others.
IMO, it all comes down to what people are willing to pay and that is an individual decision. You do not need DDB to play 5e D&D. Period. You can choose to buy the physical books (I stopped long ago) and play on paper, you can choose to buy digital only (compendiums) and still play on paper otherwise, or you can go full digital and buy into the toolset here. Regardless of ones decision, I think a major factor of the discontent is that RPG products in general are woefully undervalued by the community.
I personally do feel that things here are very fairly priced for what we get and I don't at all begrudge Curse, Fandom and now WotC the profit they are making. I very much doubt it's nearly as much as people seem to think. Honestly, I'm surprised we haven't seen any price increases over the 5+ years D&D Beyond has existed. I think that's pretty generous.
Anyone always has the option to use a free account and only the basic rules, SRD, etc, then manually input everything else themselves as homebrew. For me, I value my time MUCH more than that and even if I paid full MSRP for the physical books, feel that an additional $29.99 is well worth it to have that work done for me. I'm very much of the opinion that just because you bought a book you are owed anything for free here. YMMV.
"If you buy a copy of a book at your local Barnes & Nobles, do you go onto your digital device and demand a free digital download as well “because you already payed for one copy?” " Absolutely.
The value of the book is the information contained within and the material it's printed on. The value of the digital copy is the information (which you've already paid for and own) and the extra functionality of DnD beyond's service.
The real problem is that the two products are inextricable. People want to buy DnD beyond's extra functionality without purchasing the information they already own.
It's a null point since there's feasible solution, but acting like this isn't a problem makes you look silly.
Additionally, your analogy doesn't work. A more accurate analogy would be: you buy a videogame, and later they release DLC, but there's no way to purchase the DLC on it's own. Instead you have to purchase the game again for full price.
But “you” don’t “own” the intellectual property, WotC does. You just paid to access it. If the actual owner chooses to not give out access two ways for the price of one, that’s their prerogative.
Creating Epic Boons on DDB
DDB Buyers' Guide
Hardcovers, DDB & You
Content Troubleshooting
If I can just direct your attention to the DDB marketplace. Click a book and scroll down.
You will see that the D&D Beyond functionality is available for individual purchase separate from the compendium and for less than buying the entire book.
You're right everything you said IS a null point. Why'd you bother?
My mistake, but you're only mostly right.
That's true for PHB, but for Tasha's cauldron of everything, the price of the DnD Beyond functionality is $34.95, more than the book.
For the player's hand book, the DnD Beyond functionality is for sale at $25.95, so, about a 13% discount from the bundle. That's actually more than the digital book without the functionality ($19.99).
If the bundle is the sum of their prices without a discount, then that would put the functionality at $10.00, less than two fifths of it's actual price. OR, assuming 25.95 is it's actually price, that means the bundle is at a 35% discount, which is ridiculous.
Either way, for people who already own the books, the functionality on it's own is massively overpriced. Not that there's a feasible solution anyway.
Where do you buy your physical books that they're so cheap? Most if not all D&D books go for around EUR 45,- around here.
Leaving OGL 1.0(a) untouched and making SRD 5.1 CC-BY-4.0 is a great first step. The next is a promise to do the same for future editions. Here's a discussion thread on that.
#OpenDnD
DDB is great, but it could be better. Here are some things I think could improve DDB
*psst* (whispers) “Your 👖 are on 🔥.”👇
DDB’s price listed at $29.99:
B&N’s price listed at $36.95, “26% off MSRP:”
Creating Epic Boons on DDB
DDB Buyers' Guide
Hardcovers, DDB & You
Content Troubleshooting
I own many of the physical books and I bought them here too. 'Overpriced' is a subjective term that means different things to each individual. This site is not necessary to play the game and frankly, neither are the books whether they be physical or digital. It is not the objective of any for-profit business to tap literally every interested party because there will always be people who are interested, but who want to pay nothing. The goal is to find the WTP for the majority and set the price of the product within that range. DDB and other sites have found that price point. You do not find value in it and therefore are outside of the WTP, but you are a minority of the potential consumer population. That is a guarantee because if it were not true, the prices would adjust to capture a more optimal percentage of potential consumers. You have determined that the functionality of the site is not worth the value of your dollar. That is only true for you. Regardless, the site features are still available to you and if DDB is not worth your dollar, perhaps it is worth your time; you can simply make copies of official content as private homebrew for $0.
DM mostly, Player occasionally | Session 0 form | He/Him/They/Them
EXTENDED SIGNATURE!
Doctor/Published Scholar/Science and Healthcare Advocate/Critter/Trekkie/Gandalf with a Glock
Try DDB free: Free Rules (2024), premade PCs, adventures, one shots, encounters, SC, homebrew, more
Answers: physical books, purchases, and subbing.
Check out my life-changing
Yet this massively overpriced scheme has been operating under its pricing model for going on four years ... and got bought by the D&D WotC ... not as a gesture of charity to unshackle D&D online resources from an oppressive pricing scheme ... but as a way to make more money.
I mean, some of the Beadle and Grimm stuff looks way cool, but I just don't have the need to buy into the hobby that deeply. Miniatures are neat too, but I just can't justify the cost for pieces of plastic or even metal. At the end of the day, D&D Beyond is there to "enhance" or "facilitate" play for those who want to buy into it.
Jander Sunstar is the thinking person's Drizzt, fight me.
To Z3DT
I'm only talking about digital books, sorry for any confusion.
To Sposta
Nope, your 👖 are on 🔥. You should make sure you didn't misread something before you act cocky.
Functionality for subclasses is $9.99
Plus functionality for feats is $15.98
Plus functionality for magic items is $25.97
Plus functionality for monsters is $28.96
Plus functionality for spells is $34.95
DxJxC claimed that "D&D Beyond functionality is available [...] for less than buying the entire book." and while that is true, (if only slightly cheaper), that is NOT true for Tasha's Cauldron of Everything. Exactly like I said before, for Tasha's Cauldron of Everything, the price of the DnD Beyond functionality is $34.95, more than the book (the functionality + the compendium).
Also, to your first reply, intellectual property wasn't the right word, I've changed it.
To Erik Soong
I agree that from a business perspective, they've priced everything reasonably. What I'm trying to say is that their prices are mathematically inconsistent, in one of 3 possible ways.
For Tasha's Cauldron, the functionality is $34.95, the compendium is $19.99, and the bundle is $29.99. The bundle is the sum of their contents, but not the sum of their price, which means that their actual prices must be different than their listed prices
So assuming that the functionality and compendium are full price, that means that the bundle is a 46% discount.
Another possibility is that the compendium and bundle are full price, that would put the functionality at $10.00, that's $24.95 overpriced, or 349.5%.
The last possibility is that the functionality, and bundle are full price, that would put the compendium at -$4.96. That's not really an option for Tasha's cauldron, but it could be for the PHB.
Those are the only three options.
I can say with 100% certainty that either the bundle is 46% discounted, or the functionality on it's own is 349.5% of it's actual price. Or, it could be some combination of options above. Those are truly the only options, mathematically proven.
So, now I'm gonna speculate about why everything is either massively over or underpriced.
I believe that the functionality is not intended to be bought on it's own. There's no function on DnD Beyond to buy the complete functionality, separate from the compendium, directly. You can only buy the 5 individual categories, listed above. Now, from those categories, you can buy their individual items. The total price of all of the individual items is $119.84.
The categories are discounted from their individual components (by about 71%), and I bet if the functionality on it's own was for sale, it would be discounted from it's individual components.
The functionality on it's own is not for sale, except through purchase of every category, which is almost certainly not the intended use of the categories being purchasable, as shown by the pricing of the individual items. Which leads us back to the original problem, the functionality is meant to be inextricable from the compendium, which people may already own in paper form.
Additionally, I imagine the reason that the functionality is not for sale is because DnD Beyond is worried that it might act as a replacement for the compendium, which, whether or not it's true, is irrelevant considering replacements for the compendium, in the form of DnD wiki pages, have existed for years.
I am SORRY all of that is a pain in the ass to read. I wanted to be thorough.
P.S. I have no idea how to show in my message who I'm replying to, without looking like someone who's never used the internet before.
Beyond and Wizards do not have to cater to every customer's needs, wants, and desires. They are in the business to make money, and as corporations, they are in it to maximize profits since that is what a majority of shareholders can agree on. If Beyond and Wizards can make more money by not offering a product, they will not offer that product.
What matters is the business perspective. Surface level mathematical consistency is irrelevant. Companies frequently "overprice" and "underprice" their products to drive sales and maximize profits.
Overpricing on certain products happen to push the perception that other products are priced more "reasonably" so customers will be more likely to purchase those items. For example, some McDonald's in my area lately increased their price, and some are selling 40 McNuggets for $11.00 but 20 McNuggets for $5.29. While the customer is going balk at the price increase regardless, it will still soften the mental blow somewhat by giving the perception that 20 McNuggets for $5.29 is still a decent deal.
Just because piracy exists does not mean you should lower prices to compete with piracy, especially if doing so does not maximize profit. If anything, raising prices to recoup loss sales because of piracy is also a valid reason if it still maximizes profits.
Again, what matters is the business perspective. What is irrelevant is the appearance of mathematical consistency.
Check Licenses and Resync Entitlements: < https://www.dndbeyond.com/account/licenses >
Running the Game by Matt Colville; Introduction: < https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e-YZvLUXcR8 >
D&D with High School Students by Bill Allen; Season 1 Episode 1: < https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=52NJTUDokyk&t >
I'm glad you enjoy Beyond maximizing their profit margins at the expense of their userbase. I don't.
The first words of my reply to Erik Soong were "I agree that from a business perspective, they've priced everything reasonably". None of my messages are trying to prove that Beyond is making a poor business decision.
Your response doesn't address my arguments in any way, and I'm shocked that anyone would think like you. "My boss pays me minimum wage because he can, just like he should!".
I do not see this as taking advantage of customers. TTRPGs are not some essential products or service that people depend on to survive, and D&D ultimately can still be played for free with just the Basic Rules/SRD, EEPC, and MCV1SC, and whatever free UA and third party homebrew that can be found on here and elsewhere.
I see the constant nickeling and diming as people not valuing the effort that employees put into their work.
Check Licenses and Resync Entitlements: < https://www.dndbeyond.com/account/licenses >
Running the Game by Matt Colville; Introduction: < https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e-YZvLUXcR8 >
D&D with High School Students by Bill Allen; Season 1 Episode 1: < https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=52NJTUDokyk&t >
If you go to Barnes & Nobles to buy a book do you then go to Amazon with your hands out for a digital copy?
It would be one thing if you bought the book from Wizards of the Coast and then went to Wizards of the Coast for the digital copy. In this case - not counting the acquisition because this thread pre-dates it - you're doing the former. You're going to DnD Beyond with your hands out for a digital copy of something you bought from someone else.
Now that WotC has acquired DnD Beyond you might actually have a leg to stand on with this topic since, in this case, you'd be doing the latter.
If you don't see it as taking advantage of customers, you should have explained your reasoning in your initial response. That's what the entire conversation has been about. Do you not consider it taking advantage of customers simply because it's optional? That's a pretty weak argument. Often times, people take advantage of others in relationships, and relationships are completely optional, meaning that you can take advantage of someone using something completely optional.
I'm curious what you all think of this hypothetical. Let's say I already own the digital copy of Tasha's Cauldron (without the functionality). I bought the compendium only for $19.99. Then I decide I want to buy the DnD Beyond functionality. That's going to cost me at LEAST $29.99. The bundle is my cheapest option.
This means that for me, the minimum price of the functionality is the SAME as the price of the bundle which includes the compendium.
Does the value of this purchase match the price? In this scenario, it is IMPOSSIBLE for the value of the functionality to match it's price, unless the compendium is worth nothing, in which case, the value of the compendium I bought cannot match the price. If the value is higher than the price, that is overpaying.
It is MATHMATICALLY IMPOSSIBLE for someone who's bought the compendium to buy the functionality without overpaying. PERIOD.
If we assume the value of a book is the information contained within, then this is all true of the physical version as well.
Unless DnD beyond has some special secret discount for people who've bought the digital compendium, which I suppose is a possibility. That's what steam does for bundles.
Yeah, that's completely valid. I didn't think about that when I posted my first message
Not only is Beyond completely optional and unnecessary to play D&D, you can also import the stuff in your physical books into the digital tools without spending a penny. You will have to do it manually and it will definitely take a lot of time, but I think that is totally fair for people to pay for it one way or another, whether that is in time or in money. Not selling the digital tools by itself as a stand alone product hardly constitutes as taking advantage of customers in my opinion, and there are things that Beyond and Wizards have done that I think are far worse.
That is NOT how Beyond's pricing system works. You are NOT going to pay another $29.99 for getting the functionality. Whatever amount you have purchased for piecemeal content for a book will count towards that book's future full purchase. If you already paid $19.99 for the compendium content and want to get the full functionality later, you only need to spend another $10.00 on the book.
While it is possible to spend over the cost of the full book, you can contact support later and have them fix that and refund the money you overpaid back to you.
I would argue this is not even a leg to stand on, and it illustrates my point that customers keep nickeling and diming businesses for whatever reason they can find. The average consumer have little to no idea on how much it costs to run a business. A change in ownership might mitigate and reduce some costs like admin and HR, but it has little effect on costs directly related to production like labor, materials, equipment, etc., especially if the new ownership have little previous involvement in the industry it is setting its foot in. If anything, cost of specialized labor like software development may even increase during ownership/management change, since not everyone is necessarily willing to put up with a change in work environment, especially if it feels worse for employees being acquired, so you need to pay them more to incentivize them to stay long enough until their departure would not negatively affect the business. If Hasbro is going to acquire Pathfinder, then sure, there maybe some further marginal savings by having D&D and Pathfinder teams share even more resources, but you probably still need two distinct and separate development teams to keep both going at the same pace as they did before the acquisition.
It costs money to employ people to implement the compendium content. Just because I own Fire Emlem Warriors on my 3DS does not mean I also get to own it on my Switch, whether that be free or at a discount. Even though many assets are recycled and reused, that does not mean it is cheap to port things over. Even if it is cheap to port things over, it makes no sense for Nintendo to base the price of the Switch version to be only on the porting cost.
Check Licenses and Resync Entitlements: < https://www.dndbeyond.com/account/licenses >
Running the Game by Matt Colville; Introduction: < https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e-YZvLUXcR8 >
D&D with High School Students by Bill Allen; Season 1 Episode 1: < https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=52NJTUDokyk&t >
That's good to know. Judging by your response, it looks like we agree that it would be ridiculous. It looks like DnD Beyond agrees based on the discount policy you described. Please take a second to think about why DnD Beyond would lower the price of the book for people who already own the compendium.
That's not an option for people with physical prints of the book. There's no way for the value of the purchase to match the price. Digital or physical, DDB or WotC, it does not matter.
The company's business model is irrelevant to the user experience. It is just as silly for physical owners as it would be for compendium owners, for the exact same reason.
They are selling a product for a price that we have established is unfair. If that's what they have to do to keep from going bankrupt, that's fine. But people come to forums to express their complaints, and they're bombarded with responses pretending it's completely fair. And it's embarrassingly easy to show why that's wrong.
There are a lot of bad analogies in this thread. A more accurate analogy would be: You want to buy Fire Emblem Warriors for your 3ds, but it's not for sale. You instead have to buy a new 3ds that comes with Fire Emblem Warriors.
DnD Beyond is selling a product that you cannot buy on it's own. You have to buy another product that you may already own. It is that simple, and it's as dumb as it sounds. Just take the L.
Edit: Your analogy is fine actually, I thought that was in response to me. My mistake. My analogy is still good too though.
One of the biggest issues being ignored in the thread is that buying the full book if you’ve purchased part of it is discounted by the price of the already purchased parts.
Coriana - Company of the Grey Chain
Wagner - Dragon Heist: Bards.
DM - The Old Keep
"For Tasha's Cauldron, the functionality is $34.95, the compendium is $19.99, and the bundle is $29.99. The bundle is the sum of their contents, but not the sum of their price, which means that their actual prices must be different than their listed prices"
You've got a fundamental misunderstand of the service here, I think. The ala carte "functionality" purchases were never intended to be the way you buy everything from a book. That was provided as an option for people who didn't need a full book, but instead only wanted to pick up a single subclass, just the feats, or whatever. In almost every case, purchasing everything that way would add up to more than the $29.99 full book price. And actually, if you buy a few pieces initially, then decide to get everything, the cost of those piecemeal purchases is deducted from the full price, so you can't pay more than $29.99, as I understand it.
So - if you only want a digital copy of the book, it's the $19.99 Compendium. If you intend to use the tool that DDB provides, it's $29.99 "full" price. Both less expensive than a physical book.
EDIT: I didn't get caught up to the latest posts, sorry. I see some of this was already covered by others.
IMO, it all comes down to what people are willing to pay and that is an individual decision. You do not need DDB to play 5e D&D. Period. You can choose to buy the physical books (I stopped long ago) and play on paper, you can choose to buy digital only (compendiums) and still play on paper otherwise, or you can go full digital and buy into the toolset here. Regardless of ones decision, I think a major factor of the discontent is that RPG products in general are woefully undervalued by the community.
I personally do feel that things here are very fairly priced for what we get and I don't at all begrudge Curse, Fandom and now WotC the profit they are making. I very much doubt it's nearly as much as people seem to think. Honestly, I'm surprised we haven't seen any price increases over the 5+ years D&D Beyond has existed. I think that's pretty generous.
Anyone always has the option to use a free account and only the basic rules, SRD, etc, then manually input everything else themselves as homebrew. For me, I value my time MUCH more than that and even if I paid full MSRP for the physical books, feel that an additional $29.99 is well worth it to have that work done for me. I'm very much of the opinion that just because you bought a book you are owed anything for free here. YMMV.