Some people play Gnomes just like Kender. I guy in my high school used to do that, half the DMs banned Gnomes and/or Halflings right along with Kender.
Some people play bards as incorrigible lechers and barbarians as sociopathic murderhobos. Some play D&D like a computer RPG and attempt to pickpocket every. single. npc. they. meet. I've had a player ask me if they could play a homebrew catfolk character back in 3E - one of this race's "qualities" was going in heat once per month (I shot that down like I was Lucky Luke, didn't even let him finish his sentence). I've had at least a dozen beg me to allow evil characters when starting up a new group, and not just some amoral selfish bastard but agent of the god of ruin briging about the end of civilization evil.
Players having options doesn't make for bad characters. Players making bad choices makes for bad characters. A completely vanilla human fighter can be just as disruptive as a small race rogue.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Want to start playing but don't have anyone to play with? You can try these options: [link].
Some people play Gnomes just like Kender. I guy in my high school used to do that, half the DMs banned Gnomes and/or Halflings right along with Kender.
Some people play bards as incorrigible lechers and barbarians as sociopathic murderhobos. Some play D&D like a computer RPG and attempt to pickpocket every. single. npc. they. meet. I've had a player ask me if they could play a homebrew catfolk character back in 3E - one of this race's "qualities" was going in heat once per month (I shot that down like I was Lucky Luke, didn't even let him finish his sentence). I've had at least a dozen beg me to allow evil characters when starting up a new group, and not just some amoral selfish bastard but agent of the god of ruin briging about the end of civilization evil.
Players having options doesn't make for bad characters. Players making bad choices makes for bad characters. A completely vanilla human fighter can be just as disruptive as a small race rogue.
The same person who played every Halfling and gnome as if it were a Kender also exclusively played Wild Mages and would push every spell he could to trigger surges. This was back in 2e when Wild Magic was even more disruptive than it is now. Every DM had banned Wild Magic and Kender and half had banned either Gnomes, Halflings, or both as well just to prevent that player from tanking yet another campaign. I still ban Wild Magic to this day more than 2 decades later.
Tasslehoff Burrfoot was annoying. I didn't like the character when I started reading the Dragonlance books. I could never figure out why the other people in the party put up with him. He never did anything helpful except by accident. He tended to get them into trouble. Still, I expect that he amused the original players.
Then it was revealed that every Kender, every last one of them, was a clone of Tasslehoff. They were *all* kleptomaniacs, they all had Convenient Amnesia, total immunity to fear or common sense, and they were proud of it. In theory they honestly couldn't remember having taken your stuff. Besides, they were only looking at it and forgot to give it back. They just kind of absent-mindedly stuck it in their Bag Of Holding... What do you mean it was *your* Bag Of Holding? Oh. Well, in that case I'm sorry I stuck your sword in there. Yeah, it's a shame it cut through the bag and ruined it, but if you hadn't tied your scabbard on so tight I probably wouldn't have accidentally taken your sword, and then it wouldn't have ended up in my... your... bag!
A race similar to Halflings, but with a different attitude might be all right. Critters that like the idea of going on adventures instead of acting like grumpy badgers you have to drag out of their holes could be a refreshing change of pace. But no, instead there were Kender.
Gully Dwarves were another comic relief stunt in a setting that really didn't need it. I wouldn't inflict them on my players. Tinker Gnomes were about the same thing. A running joke.
Dragonborn will do for Draconians. I never bought into the idea that the eggs of Good dragons could be corrupted into weird Evil dragonish critters. I don't see Timat as having that kind of power. She isn't even the ruler of the 9 Hells. She's not even the ruler of the plane she lives on.
When they started advertising it in Dragon Magazine, long before the first book was published, they said it would be a series using strict AD&D rules. We would be seeing the familiar classes, races, spells, magic items, and so on we already knew and loved. There would be modules published. Tied into the story, but playable with your own characters. What we got really didn't resemble what we were promised. I don't know, did we get through an entire chapter before Raistlen started casting spells he shouldn't have been able to? It got worse from there.
Raistlen turned Evil and went plaid. He pretty much vanished from the story in the first book. Tanis Half-Elven was a cardboard cutout, a stereotypical Half Elf. Oh woe is me for I am not fully Human nor Elf. I am torn between those worlds and do not fit in anywhere. The beautiful Elven Princess loves me more than life itself, but my heart belongs to the often mentioned but never really appearing in the book Kitiara. By the time they find her she's Evil, and the closest thing to a friend she has is a Death Knight. The Dwarf, Flint Fireforge, was pretty much stereotypical. He's gruff, grouchy, and not much else. Did Riverwind ever speak? Goldmoon spent much of her time being a Cleric with no spells who didn't wear armor or fight. Caramon was mostly ok. Sturm Brightblade reminded me of Worf in Star Trek The Next Generation. He was more Knightly than the Knights. If he had a personality it would have improved things. Tika Wayland may have been the only character I ended up liking. She had a Frying Pan that did the same damage as a Battle Axe. It might even have gotten extra damage from Spicy Potatoes, since it one-shotted a Draconian.
You might have gathered by now that I didn't like Dragonlance. I did manage to read the first three books. I even waded through the second three. Then I gave up. I had most of the Dragonlance modules, because I have been and still am a slave to D&D merchandising. I do own the 5th Edition Player's Handbook, Dungeon Master's Guide, and Monster Manual. I even have the groovy DMs Screen that came with the boxed set, and yet I still felt the need to purchase the books here on D&D Beyond in case I should ever DM again and need them. My current DM has them all, and more. She's got most of the stuff thus far published including the adventure modules. She has a Master Tier subscription and has all the content shared. Hundreds of dollars she has spent, and I still felt the need to pick up books I already own in hardback.
I do not want to see a Dragonlance rulebook. I wouldn't use it were I gifted with it. Nor would I read it.
Standard Disclaimer Goes Here: Do as you like and have fun with it.
Every DM had banned Wild Magic and Kender and half had banned either Gnomes, Halflings, or both as well just to prevent that player from tanking yet another campaign.
Why not deal with the player, instead of going after mechanics? What if he'd switched to exclusively playing oversexed bards after you banned Wild Mages? What if he went for klepto human thief characters after that? If you let players ruin character options, removing those options just becomes a game of banhammer whack-a-mole.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Want to start playing but don't have anyone to play with? You can try these options: [link].
To be honest, we were in high school and weren’t mature enough for that solution. Besides, we were all banning Wild Magic and Kender anyway, and there are almost no Gnomes in my preferred setting of Mystara anyway so it was no loss to me.
I actually played a 2nd Edition wild mage in a campaign once, but it was a wild and crazy party so I wasn't nearly as disruptive as the earth genasi that thought he was Hulk Hogan.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Find your own truth, choose your enemies carefully, and never deal with a dragon.
"Canon" is what's factual to D&D lore. "Cannon" is what you're going to be shot with if you keep getting the word wrong.
To be honest, we were in high school and weren’t mature enough for that solution. Besides, we were all banning Wild Magic and Kender anyway, and there are almost no Gnomes in my preferred setting of Mystara anyway so it was no loss to me.
Hey, I can get behind that - I've been a 16-year old DM with teen players too once. I just think there are better ways to deal with this sort of thing now, with decades of experiece under my belt (not to mention the weight of ages on my shoulders).
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Want to start playing but don't have anyone to play with? You can try these options: [link].
Oh, sure. But I still ban Wild Magic in my setting (I worked it into the setting as a geographic peculiarity so I have an excuse) and politely (but clearly) request no Wild Magic in any other setting. (I do hates it everso, been scarred for life I has.)
And back then I was allowing Goblins, Hobgoblins, and Orcs, Half-Races of all of them as well as Half-Dwarf, (and Half-Gnome both before the ban on Gnomes and after the ban got lifted) as well as Bugbears and (non-fiendish) Gnolls and Kobolds all as PC races plus, based on geography Rakasta (basically precursors to Tabaxi), Lupins (basically dog-people instead of cat-people), and Tortles. Most people never even noticed the lack of Gnomes, it only ever really came up in one area and that area also restricted Rakasta, Lupins, Tortles, Kobolds, and especially Gnolls so there were reasons to find adventure elsewhere and then the party never had to meet a gnome. Ever.
You mean like humans, elves, dwarves? I mean the only player races missing are Kender (kleptomatic halflings) and Gully dwarves....
And had to resurrect a thread dead for almost four months specifically to tell you off about it.
It's posts like that (not yours, Beard, the other guy's) that make me so fiercely miss this forum's old rules about thread necromancy. Sometimes the only way to educate someone about the proper way to communicate on a forum is to swat them a few times and pointedly remind them of good forum etiquette. And yes, I know, the best response is simply to ignore the offending post and let the thread fall off the front page again, but we're already past that point. Ugh.
Ahh, well that makes more sense. I take it the fellow doesn't understand that Minotaurs do actually exist in DDB as a player character option. I don't recall the Irda other than as being a lost race in Krynn lore. Where they a playable race?
You mean like humans, elves, dwarves? I mean the only player races missing are Kender (kleptomatic halflings) and Gully dwarves....
And had to resurrect a thread dead for almost four months specifically to tell you off about it.
It's posts like that (not yours, Beard, the other guy's) that make me so fiercely miss this forum's old rules about thread necromancy. Sometimes the only way to educate someone about the proper way to communicate on a forum is to swat them a few times and pointedly remind them of good forum etiquette. And yes, I know, the best response is simply to ignore the offending post and let the thread fall off the front page again, but we're already past that point. Ugh.
Ahh, well that makes more sense. I take it the fellow doesn't understand that Minotaurs do actually exist in DDB as a player character option. I don't recall the Irda other than as being a lost race in Krynn lore. Where they a playable race?
Ogres were originally the beautiful people of Krynn, but they were evil slavemasters. When the enslaved humans rebelled successfully the ogres were cast down and made ugly to reflect their evil character, except for a small number of them who'd treated their slaves better and got to escape to a paradise island - those became the Irda. I don't recall them ever being a published playable race, but I could be wrong - I've never been particularly interested in Krynn as a setting to play in.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Want to start playing but don't have anyone to play with? You can try these options: [link].
I'm pretty sure that the Irda were never a playable race in Dragonlance, due to it not fitting in with the settings's lore of them being practically extinct and in hiding on an island far from the continent.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Find your own truth, choose your enemies carefully, and never deal with a dragon.
"Canon" is what's factual to D&D lore. "Cannon" is what you're going to be shot with if you keep getting the word wrong.
Then it was revealed that every Kender, every last one of them, was a clone of Tasslehoff. They were *all* kleptomaniacs, they all had Convenient Amnesia, total immunity to fear or common sense, and they were proud of it.
Tasslehoff got interesting only when his character started growing. There is a question put to him in onhe of the later books (I forget which character asked it), "So, how does it feel to be the only Kender that cares?"
One of the books was set in a Kender town. All I could think of while reading is, how is this race still alive?
In the GM groups I was in, wanting to play a kender was considered a red flag for a player.
The race only works in fiction, where author(s) are controlling everything. At the table, where there are feelings to be hurt, kender are a hard "nope" to me.
Then it was revealed that every Kender, every last one of them, was a clone of Tasslehoff. They were *all* kleptomaniacs, they all had Convenient Amnesia, total immunity to fear or common sense, and they were proud of it.
Tasslehoff got interesting only when his character started growing. There is a question put to him in onhe of the later books (I forget which character asked it), "So, how does it feel to be the only Kender that cares?"
One of the books was set in a Kender town. All I could think of while reading is, how is this race still alive?
Kenders as written are too dumb to survive, especially in a harsh low fantasy setting like Dragonlance. Their continued survival in Krynn is purely due to author fiat.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Find your own truth, choose your enemies carefully, and never deal with a dragon.
"Canon" is what's factual to D&D lore. "Cannon" is what you're going to be shot with if you keep getting the word wrong.
Irda WAS a playable race. I actually still have the dragonlance players handbook that gives you all the information you would need to play an irda and have played my main character as an irda for over 20 years. Ever since 2.5 edition they have been playable. Not sure if a 3rd edition or higher ever came out for DL or not. As I pretty much stopped playing after 3rd edition came out. However, Irda was a base race to play in the DL setting
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
To post a comment, please login or register a new account.
Some people play bards as incorrigible lechers and barbarians as sociopathic murderhobos. Some play D&D like a computer RPG and attempt to pickpocket every. single. npc. they. meet. I've had a player ask me if they could play a homebrew catfolk character back in 3E - one of this race's "qualities" was going in heat once per month (I shot that down like I was Lucky Luke, didn't even let him finish his sentence). I've had at least a dozen beg me to allow evil characters when starting up a new group, and not just some amoral selfish bastard but agent of the god of ruin briging about the end of civilization evil.
Players having options doesn't make for bad characters. Players making bad choices makes for bad characters. A completely vanilla human fighter can be just as disruptive as a small race rogue.
Want to start playing but don't have anyone to play with? You can try these options: [link].
The same person who played every Halfling and gnome as if it were a Kender also exclusively played Wild Mages and would push every spell he could to trigger surges. This was back in 2e when Wild Magic was even more disruptive than it is now. Every DM had banned Wild Magic and Kender and half had banned either Gnomes, Halflings, or both as well just to prevent that player from tanking yet another campaign. I still ban Wild Magic to this day more than 2 decades later.
Creating Epic Boons on DDB
DDB Buyers' Guide
Hardcovers, DDB & You
Content Troubleshooting
Tasslehoff Burrfoot was annoying. I didn't like the character when I started reading the Dragonlance books. I could never figure out why the other people in the party put up with him. He never did anything helpful except by accident. He tended to get them into trouble. Still, I expect that he amused the original players.
Then it was revealed that every Kender, every last one of them, was a clone of Tasslehoff. They were *all* kleptomaniacs, they all had Convenient Amnesia, total immunity to fear or common sense, and they were proud of it. In theory they honestly couldn't remember having taken your stuff. Besides, they were only looking at it and forgot to give it back. They just kind of absent-mindedly stuck it in their Bag Of Holding... What do you mean it was *your* Bag Of Holding? Oh. Well, in that case I'm sorry I stuck your sword in there. Yeah, it's a shame it cut through the bag and ruined it, but if you hadn't tied your scabbard on so tight I probably wouldn't have accidentally taken your sword, and then it wouldn't have ended up in my... your... bag!
A race similar to Halflings, but with a different attitude might be all right. Critters that like the idea of going on adventures instead of acting like grumpy badgers you have to drag out of their holes could be a refreshing change of pace. But no, instead there were Kender.
Gully Dwarves were another comic relief stunt in a setting that really didn't need it. I wouldn't inflict them on my players. Tinker Gnomes were about the same thing. A running joke.
Dragonborn will do for Draconians. I never bought into the idea that the eggs of Good dragons could be corrupted into weird Evil dragonish critters. I don't see Timat as having that kind of power. She isn't even the ruler of the 9 Hells. She's not even the ruler of the plane she lives on.
When they started advertising it in Dragon Magazine, long before the first book was published, they said it would be a series using strict AD&D rules. We would be seeing the familiar classes, races, spells, magic items, and so on we already knew and loved. There would be modules published. Tied into the story, but playable with your own characters. What we got really didn't resemble what we were promised. I don't know, did we get through an entire chapter before Raistlen started casting spells he shouldn't have been able to? It got worse from there.
Raistlen turned Evil and went plaid. He pretty much vanished from the story in the first book. Tanis Half-Elven was a cardboard cutout, a stereotypical Half Elf. Oh woe is me for I am not fully Human nor Elf. I am torn between those worlds and do not fit in anywhere. The beautiful Elven Princess loves me more than life itself, but my heart belongs to the often mentioned but never really appearing in the book Kitiara. By the time they find her she's Evil, and the closest thing to a friend she has is a Death Knight. The Dwarf, Flint Fireforge, was pretty much stereotypical. He's gruff, grouchy, and not much else. Did Riverwind ever speak? Goldmoon spent much of her time being a Cleric with no spells who didn't wear armor or fight. Caramon was mostly ok. Sturm Brightblade reminded me of Worf in Star Trek The Next Generation. He was more Knightly than the Knights. If he had a personality it would have improved things. Tika Wayland may have been the only character I ended up liking. She had a Frying Pan that did the same damage as a Battle Axe. It might even have gotten extra damage from Spicy Potatoes, since it one-shotted a Draconian.
You might have gathered by now that I didn't like Dragonlance. I did manage to read the first three books. I even waded through the second three. Then I gave up. I had most of the Dragonlance modules, because I have been and still am a slave to D&D merchandising. I do own the 5th Edition Player's Handbook, Dungeon Master's Guide, and Monster Manual. I even have the groovy DMs Screen that came with the boxed set, and yet I still felt the need to purchase the books here on D&D Beyond in case I should ever DM again and need them. My current DM has them all, and more. She's got most of the stuff thus far published including the adventure modules. She has a Master Tier subscription and has all the content shared. Hundreds of dollars she has spent, and I still felt the need to pick up books I already own in hardback.
I do not want to see a Dragonlance rulebook. I wouldn't use it were I gifted with it. Nor would I read it.
Standard Disclaimer Goes Here: Do as you like and have fun with it.
<Insert clever signature here>
They’re called Gnomes.
Creating Epic Boons on DDB
DDB Buyers' Guide
Hardcovers, DDB & You
Content Troubleshooting
Why not deal with the player, instead of going after mechanics? What if he'd switched to exclusively playing oversexed bards after you banned Wild Mages? What if he went for klepto human thief characters after that? If you let players ruin character options, removing those options just becomes a game of banhammer whack-a-mole.
Want to start playing but don't have anyone to play with? You can try these options: [link].
To be honest, we were in high school and weren’t mature enough for that solution. Besides, we were all banning Wild Magic and Kender anyway, and there are almost no Gnomes in my preferred setting of Mystara anyway so it was no loss to me.
Creating Epic Boons on DDB
DDB Buyers' Guide
Hardcovers, DDB & You
Content Troubleshooting
I actually played a 2nd Edition wild mage in a campaign once, but it was a wild and crazy party so I wasn't nearly as disruptive as the earth genasi that thought he was Hulk Hogan.
Find your own truth, choose your enemies carefully, and never deal with a dragon.
"Canon" is what's factual to D&D lore. "Cannon" is what you're going to be shot with if you keep getting the word wrong.
Well, that's what he gets for going to Ludicrous Speed.
Or doing a ludicrous amount of speed.
Find your own truth, choose your enemies carefully, and never deal with a dragon.
"Canon" is what's factual to D&D lore. "Cannon" is what you're going to be shot with if you keep getting the word wrong.
Hey, I can get behind that - I've been a 16-year old DM with teen players too once. I just think there are better ways to deal with this sort of thing now, with decades of experiece under my belt (not to mention the weight of ages on my shoulders).
Want to start playing but don't have anyone to play with? You can try these options: [link].
Oh, sure. But I still ban Wild Magic in my setting (I worked it into the setting as a geographic peculiarity so I have an excuse) and politely (but clearly) request no Wild Magic in any other setting. (I do hates it everso, been scarred for life I has.)
And back then I was allowing Goblins, Hobgoblins, and Orcs, Half-Races of all of them as well as Half-Dwarf, (and Half-Gnome both before the ban on Gnomes and after the ban got lifted) as well as Bugbears and (non-fiendish) Gnolls and Kobolds all as PC races plus, based on geography Rakasta (basically precursors to Tabaxi), Lupins (basically dog-people instead of cat-people), and Tortles. Most people never even noticed the lack of Gnomes, it only ever really came up in one area and that area also restricted Rakasta, Lupins, Tortles, Kobolds, and especially Gnolls so there were reasons to find adventure elsewhere and then the party never had to meet a gnome. Ever.
Creating Epic Boons on DDB
DDB Buyers' Guide
Hardcovers, DDB & You
Content Troubleshooting
Thats not true, Blood sea minataurs are not here, as well as Irda.
What isn't true? Why have you replied to me with this? It has nothing to do with what I posted.
I'm assuming they meant this one:
And had to resurrect a thread dead for almost four months specifically to tell you off about it.
It's posts like that (not yours, Beard, the other guy's) that make me so fiercely miss this forum's old rules about thread necromancy. [REDACTED]
Please do not contact or message me.
Ahh, well that makes more sense. I take it the fellow doesn't understand that Minotaurs do actually exist in DDB as a player character option. I don't recall the Irda other than as being a lost race in Krynn lore. Where they a playable race?
Ogres were originally the beautiful people of Krynn, but they were evil slavemasters. When the enslaved humans rebelled successfully the ogres were cast down and made ugly to reflect their evil character, except for a small number of them who'd treated their slaves better and got to escape to a paradise island - those became the Irda. I don't recall them ever being a published playable race, but I could be wrong - I've never been particularly interested in Krynn as a setting to play in.
Want to start playing but don't have anyone to play with? You can try these options: [link].
I'm pretty sure that the Irda were never a playable race in Dragonlance, due to it not fitting in with the settings's lore of them being practically extinct and in hiding on an island far from the continent.
Find your own truth, choose your enemies carefully, and never deal with a dragon.
"Canon" is what's factual to D&D lore. "Cannon" is what you're going to be shot with if you keep getting the word wrong.
Tasslehoff got interesting only when his character started growing. There is a question put to him in onhe of the later books (I forget which character asked it), "So, how does it feel to be the only Kender that cares?"
One of the books was set in a Kender town. All I could think of while reading is, how is this race still alive?
In the GM groups I was in, wanting to play a kender was considered a red flag for a player.
The race only works in fiction, where author(s) are controlling everything. At the table, where there are feelings to be hurt, kender are a hard "nope" to me.
Kenders as written are too dumb to survive, especially in a harsh low fantasy setting like Dragonlance. Their continued survival in Krynn is purely due to author fiat.
Find your own truth, choose your enemies carefully, and never deal with a dragon.
"Canon" is what's factual to D&D lore. "Cannon" is what you're going to be shot with if you keep getting the word wrong.
Irda WAS a playable race. I actually still have the dragonlance players handbook that gives you all the information you would need to play an irda and have played my main character as an irda for over 20 years. Ever since 2.5 edition they have been playable. Not sure if a 3rd edition or higher ever came out for DL or not. As I pretty much stopped playing after 3rd edition came out. However, Irda was a base race to play in the DL setting