Now, I know OSR has been around since before 5e, however, it seems there is a spike of popularity of OSR titles lately and I can't wonder if it is due to the current management style of 5e.
I think it is. I think 5e is moving in directions that designed to pander to immature players and does so, in the latest instance, by placing a imposition on players who don't share that ideology that all "races" should be biologically equal. I've argued that this doesn't make sense internally (different species have different capacities for strength, dexterity, intelligence. You aren't going to win an arm wrestling contest with an elephant.) This thread isn't about that however.
5e, in the official releases, offers me less and less of what I want from the system. Even if we ignore the alleged pandering, the quality of the material is getting worse. Their official releases often don't devote enough pages to fully flesh out an idea, leaving us with something that sounded great as a bulletpoint, but lacks the followthrough to make it really a worthwhile addition.
Also, the 5e campaigns, while some are quite good, are a bit too long. You can't really know if you're going to enjoy trapaising around Avernus, until you already sunk dozens of hours into the game. No, we aren't under any obligation to finish a game that we aren't enjoying, but after paying X dollars for each adventure we really ought to enjoy them. I find myself yearning for 30 page modules that can take up a couple of weeks and then move on to the next adventure.
OSR has become more appealing for me and my friends lately because these issues, which are entirely based on the management of the property, aren't present within. Additionally, in a world where many of us are using VTTs, automation has become widespread. A lot of the headaches of 1980's and earlier design can be delegated to a computer. So, these games have become a lot more accessible that they were in ages past.
For me, I started looking at more traditional D&D modules and systems as a way to find something I was missing from 5E. By discovering the classics, I started learning about OSR systems. How about you? How about in general?
Under 5E rules without using Tasha's Cauldron, the difference in strength between a 50 lb halfling PC and a 700 lb centaur PC, all other factors being equal, is a mighty 2 points difference. And they both cap at 20. Racial ability score modifiers have never been the driving difference between PC options in 5E, the everything else that they get is. This argument is frankly silly and always has been. If you dislike what's happening with 5E, nobody's going to force you to stick with it. Go find a game that you do enjoy.
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Find your own truth, choose your enemies carefully, and never deal with a dragon.
"Canon" is what's factual to D&D lore. "Cannon" is what you're going to be shot with if you keep getting the word wrong.
Under 5E rules without using Tasha's Cauldron, the difference in strength between a 50 lb halfling PC and a 700 lb centaur PC, all other factors being equal, is a mighty 2 points difference. And they both cap at 20. Racial ability score modifiers have never been the driving difference between PC options in 5E, the everything else that they get is. This argument is frankly silly and always has been. If you dislike what's happening with 5E, nobody's going to force you to stick with it. Go find a game that you do enjoy.
...Wow.
Thanks for you suggestion. Judging from my post and the title and the poll in the topic, I think it already occured to me.
1) 4th Edition - If I recall correctly, the OSR movement began around mid 2000's with talks of the good ole days of D&D (Basic & AD&D). Shortly after, D&D 4e was released. There was a significant amount of dislike for the direction this edition took. This helped foster interest further paving the way for retro clones like OSRIC, Basic Fantasy, and others to emerge. Well, that and before then, the availability to older D&D products was limited which is why they did a premium reprint for the older editions before making a significant number of them PoD.
2) Popularity & Burnout - Safe to say 5e is popular. There are a number of folks who have been playing it for a long time, just burnout, and want to try other games. Also, there are folks who go out of their way to stay away from the mainstream because it's everywhere (in the general sense).
3) Social Media & Crowdfunding - Technology has helped smaller studios and indie creators gain followings and grow their communities through social media. When parlayed into a crowdfunding campaign, it allows for more products to see the light of day.
4) Evolution - OSR has changed since the first generation of retro clones. The second generation had more rules variations, but a good chunk of the DNA is still there like DCC. The current generation can have significant rules variations to the point where all it has to adhere to is the OSR philosophy of "rulings, not rules" and is usually fairly minimalist, earning the name "Nu-SR." You can still find the earlier stuff and its communities, but OSR has experienced a wide breath of changes which can cater to more than in its original form.
Basically, there are a number of reasons for OSR's increase in popularity. However, I don't think your contention of 5e's management is one of them.
Regarding your points, when it comes to racial stats, I've found it generally promotes the limitations of choices. I say "promotes" because you don't have to choose them but earlier editions of D&D, and by extension early/mid gen OSR, favor diverse group comps/roles and optimized characters due to the deadly nature of the game. As for the OSR adventures, they are more granular but if you like them and continue to buy as much content which is found in a 5e adventure book, they add up and you'll be paying much more. You could always take the 5e adventure you're not liking and take out the parts you like, in case that hasn't been considered.
OSR and 5e feel differently. If you've played 5e for a bit and have dipped your toes in the OSR pool and like it, there's nothing wrong with pursuing that and either trying something else from there, coming back, or playing multiple games as time and interest allow. Do what works for you!
I'm afraid you're going to need to define "popular", because literally the only time I ever see OSR mentioned in any form is on these forums
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Active characters:
Carric Aquissar, elven wannabe artist in his deconstructionist period (Archfey warlock) Lan Kidogo, mapach archaeologist and treasure hunter (Knowledge cleric) Mardan Ferres, elven private investigator obsessed with that one unsolved murder (Assassin rogue) Xhekhetiel, halfling survivor of a Betrayer Gods cult (Runechild sorcerer/fighter)
OSR is mostly being played by people of the milennial generation who never actually played D&D 'back in the glory days', many of them weren't even alive when I started playing it. So these 'popular' players have no idea how we played or what we did, they just have some imagined fantasy of how the game was played, possibly remembered from tales told by elder siblings or parents and teachers. When posts like thes come up and they talk about how awesome their original old skool games are it quickly becomes obvious that they actually aren't using the original rules at all.
I've just started playing again after (over) 2o years away. I learned on 1e back in '79 and didn't mind the 2e rules when they came out because 1e was a bit of a mess with them slapping thing together in the early days to make a heavier "advanced" edition over basic. 3e and 3.5 did nothing for me and i stopped playing DnD. Some friends just talked me into playing again and I do love the role play of rpg's but the thing the irks me is the homogenization of the races in an attempt to correct some sense of racism from previous editions. And he's where I think it gets stupid! The early version were very human centric. Demi-humans where the older races and they were being out grown by humans. There was no penalty or bonus to being human, but your character could be anything. If you wanted to be a 1000 year elf, then fine, but you could only go to a certain level in a certain class. Want to be a really strong half-orc, great but you took a hit on intel.
It wasn't that people were being racist to goblins and orcs. They were created as a "premade" evil enemy to make it an easy good vs bad. Elves were racist to everyone including different types of elves. Dwarves were greedy, gnomes were reclusive, orcs were warlike. The only demi-humans really moving freely through the world were adventures and merchants. Humans were the predominate race and it was the most adaptable race for any character class. Demi-human characters were meant to be the fringe for flavor in a game.
We limited choices back then everyone wanted to play something crazy. Now to make the game as enticing (and sellable) as possible they have done that. The problem is people then say "why does my orc have to be dumb" or "why does my hobgoblin have to be evil". To make the game as friendly as possible to the most people, they have made it bland. Snowflakes are all unique, but a pile of them just looks like a clump of snow.
At the core of it i always go with the advise of Gygax back in the late 70's 1e ADnD PHB and DMG. He made it very clear that the "rules" were there to be used or ignored as the DM saw fit. If you like the mechanics (and they are way easier and more fluid now) them use them and keep the old lore. Just because the draw the minotaur to look like a metrosexual pirate cow-person and the hobgoblin to like like a Disney side character doesn't mean i have to make them look that way I my world.
Yeah, I had to look it up, would be nice to actually define these terms in the OP.
OSR (Old School Renaissance) or OSE (Old School Essentials) is a fancy way of saying games based on pre-3.5 editions of D&D.
I think it's great that fans of older editions can still play them and have new content to use. But I don't think 5e is being mismanaged really, its just targeted at a different demographic. I don't think it's fair to call that demographic "immature," since that carries inferior connotations. It's just a player base that's looking for a different style of entertainment.
"Yes, but" I don't like your insinuations. I think it's because 5e isn't producing the types of products people who are inclined to like OSR material want -- not because of politics.
Shorter modules, products centered on providing specific rules to drive a theme rather than doing so with descriptions and visuals. Less rendered, more interpretive artwork. Differently balanced classes. A desire to experience "the classics." These are the things I think are driving people to the OSR, insofar as people are being driven to the OSR.
As an aside, I really prefer when a piece of art evokes strong verbal description from me, the DM, rather than simply being gorgeous in itself -- I'm not trying to show my players slideshows every few minutes.
I'm afraid you're going to need to define "popular", because literally the only time I ever see OSR mentioned in any form is on these forums
Are you on Reddit or YouTube?
There are communities enjoying OSR aside from forums which are populated by an older demographic.
I am on both and frequently browse D&D subreddits and youtube channels. I am not sure I have seen OSR referenced once. Granted, I have not sought out OSR-specific subreddits or channels, but in my defense I did not know such a thing even existed. So I would err to say its niche
I don't even know what OSR is, can't be that popular?
Compared to 5e it’s not. But there are thousands of players around the world playing OSE, knave, Labyrinth Lord, Osric, and others as well as a huge amount of high quality content put out through kickstarter and available through avenues like DrivethruRPG.
This forum is 5e centric, rightly so, but there are other successful games out there. Pathfinder for example.
I don't even know what OSR is, can't be that popular?
Compared to 5e it’s not. But there are thousands of players around the world playing OSE, knave, Labyrinth Lord, Osric, and others as well as a huge amount of high quality content put out through kickstarter and available through avenues like DrivethruRPG.
This forum is 5e centric, rightly so, but there are other successful games out there. Pathfinder for example.
Of course this forum is 5e centric, it's the forum for a Toolset/publisher that produces exclusively official WotC 5e material.
Pathfinder's numbers aren't as close to 5es. No TTRPG has sales numbers and engagement anywhere close to 5es. Hasbro's revenue largely leaning on D&D is testimony to that. No one, even the big ENNIE winners, are close to those figures. And that says nothing about the quality of the many OSR and frankly just other TTRPGs out there, nor the actual fun people have playing game systems that aren't 5e. ENNIES exist to prove that.
This thread was created predicated on the notion that 5e's owners are doing something wrong in their management of the Dungeon and Dragons property driving people to play OSR games. I"m sure there are some folks who seek in OSR an experience that they weren't getting in 5e; but there are a lot of reasons people migrate from 5e to other game systems, and it's not the notion that there is some flaw in 5e. I'd say the big flaw in the OP's contention is that frequent gamers are one system gamers. That's just not the true.
And as for your "have you been on YouTube or Reddit" the volume of traffic on both of those outlets as well as Discords TikTok's etc pertaining to 5E probably dwarfs the entirety of OSR if not TTRPG in general. And again, in no way does that denigrate the quality of those other games products or caliber of their players.
In short, someone clearly wanted to start a fight thread, the language used is entirely 85% hit piece on 5e and 15% "old school used to be hard but we got computers not" (which is a weird trajectory. I'm not sure what you're contending by asserting 5es existence, it doesn't serve as a corrective of many posters (of many ages) and players of 5e who haven't heard of 5e or other major tabletop publishers.
I'm afraid you're going to need to define "popular", because literally the only time I ever see OSR mentioned in any form is on these forums
Are you on Reddit or YouTube?
There are communities enjoying OSR aside from forums which are populated by an older demographic.
I am on both and frequently browse D&D subreddits and youtube channels. I am not sure I have seen OSR referenced once. Granted, I have not sought out OSR-specific subreddits or channels, but in my defense I did not know such a thing even existed. So I would err to say its niche
It is niche but unless you only visit dndnext reddits you will find OSR referenced on DnD, DungeonsandDragons and RPG Reddits.
The YouTube algorithm will decide what you watch according to what you search.
OSR is a different style of play, less character oriented and many of us enjoy that. I really am not trying to convince anyone to play OSR, I couldn’t care less what you enjoy, and I am also a fan of 5e because it is much more OSR “like” than 3 or 4th edition.
This poll is about the perception of WOTC vision and whether that would nudge folk already aware of OSR in that direction. I believe that the results will be 5e skewed by the fact that most here haven’t even heard of knave or OSE.
YouTube's algorithms especially also drive users toward things they're already predisposed to "like", in that they've already searched for it or clicked on something similar
The fact that you might see a lot of OSR-related videos does not in any way mean the majority of people looking for D&D videos will also see them
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Active characters:
Carric Aquissar, elven wannabe artist in his deconstructionist period (Archfey warlock) Lan Kidogo, mapach archaeologist and treasure hunter (Knowledge cleric) Mardan Ferres, elven private investigator obsessed with that one unsolved murder (Assassin rogue) Xhekhetiel, halfling survivor of a Betrayer Gods cult (Runechild sorcerer/fighter)
YouTube's algorithms especially also drive users toward things they're already predisposed to "like", in that they've already searched for it or clicked on something similar
The fact that you might see a lot of OSR-related videos does not in any way mean the majority of people looking for D&D videos will also see them
Yeah, Questing Beast has a subscriber base in the 50k range ... Dungeon Dudes to pick a not high tier D&D 5e channel has seven times as much.
Xiante, you're not so much being a troll as being a trope. Whenever WotC hits a crit (but not commercial) fail, OSR folks come onto this board trying to evangelize "the better way." It's the sort of stuff that's probably easily calibrated by social media analytics, in fact I wouldn't be surprised if it wasn't driven by analytics (that is, algorithmically identified OSR types get "bad news" about a 5e release through their channels supporting their independent thought, and then join the lists here ... and somewhere a League of Legends marketer gets their green win stat.
YouTube's algorithms especially also drive users toward things they're already predisposed to "like", in that they've already searched for it or clicked on something similar
The fact that you might see a lot of OSR-related videos does not in any way mean the majority of people looking for D&D videos will also see them
YouTube's algorithms especially also drive users toward things they're already predisposed to "like", in that they've already searched for it or clicked on something similar
The fact that you might see a lot of OSR-related videos does not in any way mean the majority of people looking for D&D videos will also see them
Yeah, Questing Beast has a subscriber base in the 50k range ... Dungeon Dudes to pick a not high tier D&D 5e channel has seven times as much.
Xiante, you're not so much being a troll as being a trope. Whenever WotC hits a crit (but not commercial) fail, OSR folks come onto this board trying to evangelize "the better way." It's the sort of stuff that's probably easily calibrated by social media analytics, in fact I wouldn't be surprised if it wasn't driven by analytics (that is, algorithmically identified OSR types get "bad news" about a 5e release through their channels supporting their independent thought, and then join the lists here ... and somewhere a League of Legends marketer gets their green win stat.
Neither troll nor trope, nor willing to argue.
I have stated nothing other than:
I like 5e but prefer OSR without denigrating or trying to convert modern system aficionados. Don’t really care which system is more popular, bigger, better or any other metric you may care to apply.
Some users feel that the game design direction of WOTC is not to their liking and those users, already aware of b/x style of play, like myself, will vote with their wallets. I already have.
I hope the OP wasn’t simply trying to start a fight and if he was, I’m out, as there is no winning against a predetermined point of view which classes someone as a troll or trope which is an extremely banal dismissal with the pretence of not being insulting.
Play what you want. The best thing WOTC did recently was give LMoP away for free as it is far and away the best module they ever released.
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Now, I know OSR has been around since before 5e, however, it seems there is a spike of popularity of OSR titles lately and I can't wonder if it is due to the current management style of 5e.
I think it is. I think 5e is moving in directions that designed to pander to immature players and does so, in the latest instance, by placing a imposition on players who don't share that ideology that all "races" should be biologically equal. I've argued that this doesn't make sense internally (different species have different capacities for strength, dexterity, intelligence. You aren't going to win an arm wrestling contest with an elephant.) This thread isn't about that however.
5e, in the official releases, offers me less and less of what I want from the system. Even if we ignore the alleged pandering, the quality of the material is getting worse. Their official releases often don't devote enough pages to fully flesh out an idea, leaving us with something that sounded great as a bulletpoint, but lacks the followthrough to make it really a worthwhile addition.
Also, the 5e campaigns, while some are quite good, are a bit too long. You can't really know if you're going to enjoy trapaising around Avernus, until you already sunk dozens of hours into the game. No, we aren't under any obligation to finish a game that we aren't enjoying, but after paying X dollars for each adventure we really ought to enjoy them. I find myself yearning for 30 page modules that can take up a couple of weeks and then move on to the next adventure.
OSR has become more appealing for me and my friends lately because these issues, which are entirely based on the management of the property, aren't present within. Additionally, in a world where many of us are using VTTs, automation has become widespread. A lot of the headaches of 1980's and earlier design can be delegated to a computer. So, these games have become a lot more accessible that they were in ages past.
For me, I started looking at more traditional D&D modules and systems as a way to find something I was missing from 5E. By discovering the classics, I started learning about OSR systems. How about you? How about in general?
Under 5E rules without using Tasha's Cauldron, the difference in strength between a 50 lb halfling PC and a 700 lb centaur PC, all other factors being equal, is a mighty 2 points difference. And they both cap at 20. Racial ability score modifiers have never been the driving difference between PC options in 5E, the everything else that they get is. This argument is frankly silly and always has been. If you dislike what's happening with 5E, nobody's going to force you to stick with it. Go find a game that you do enjoy.
Find your own truth, choose your enemies carefully, and never deal with a dragon.
"Canon" is what's factual to D&D lore. "Cannon" is what you're going to be shot with if you keep getting the word wrong.
That is exactly what the poll is about. How many of us are now looking to find a game we enjoy without trying to convince anyone else of what we like.
I am playing OSE right now.
...Wow.
Thanks for you suggestion. Judging from my post and the title and the poll in the topic, I think it already occured to me.
I voted "No, but..."
1) 4th Edition - If I recall correctly, the OSR movement began around mid 2000's with talks of the good ole days of D&D (Basic & AD&D). Shortly after, D&D 4e was released. There was a significant amount of dislike for the direction this edition took. This helped foster interest further paving the way for retro clones like OSRIC, Basic Fantasy, and others to emerge. Well, that and before then, the availability to older D&D products was limited which is why they did a premium reprint for the older editions before making a significant number of them PoD.
2) Popularity & Burnout - Safe to say 5e is popular. There are a number of folks who have been playing it for a long time, just burnout, and want to try other games. Also, there are folks who go out of their way to stay away from the mainstream because it's everywhere (in the general sense).
3) Social Media & Crowdfunding - Technology has helped smaller studios and indie creators gain followings and grow their communities through social media. When parlayed into a crowdfunding campaign, it allows for more products to see the light of day.
4) Evolution - OSR has changed since the first generation of retro clones. The second generation had more rules variations, but a good chunk of the DNA is still there like DCC. The current generation can have significant rules variations to the point where all it has to adhere to is the OSR philosophy of "rulings, not rules" and is usually fairly minimalist, earning the name "Nu-SR." You can still find the earlier stuff and its communities, but OSR has experienced a wide breath of changes which can cater to more than in its original form.
Basically, there are a number of reasons for OSR's increase in popularity. However, I don't think your contention of 5e's management is one of them.
Regarding your points, when it comes to racial stats, I've found it generally promotes the limitations of choices. I say "promotes" because you don't have to choose them but earlier editions of D&D, and by extension early/mid gen OSR, favor diverse group comps/roles and optimized characters due to the deadly nature of the game. As for the OSR adventures, they are more granular but if you like them and continue to buy as much content which is found in a 5e adventure book, they add up and you'll be paying much more. You could always take the 5e adventure you're not liking and take out the parts you like, in case that hasn't been considered.
OSR and 5e feel differently. If you've played 5e for a bit and have dipped your toes in the OSR pool and like it, there's nothing wrong with pursuing that and either trying something else from there, coming back, or playing multiple games as time and interest allow. Do what works for you!
I'm afraid you're going to need to define "popular", because literally the only time I ever see OSR mentioned in any form is on these forums
Active characters:
Carric Aquissar, elven wannabe artist in his deconstructionist period (Archfey warlock)
Lan Kidogo, mapach archaeologist and treasure hunter (Knowledge cleric)
Mardan Ferres, elven private investigator obsessed with that one unsolved murder (Assassin rogue)
Xhekhetiel, halfling survivor of a Betrayer Gods cult (Runechild sorcerer/fighter)
OSR is mostly being played by people of the milennial generation who never actually played D&D 'back in the glory days', many of them weren't even alive when I started playing it. So these 'popular' players have no idea how we played or what we did, they just have some imagined fantasy of how the game was played, possibly remembered from tales told by elder siblings or parents and teachers. When posts like thes come up and they talk about how awesome their original old skool games are it quickly becomes obvious that they actually aren't using the original rules at all.
I've just started playing again after (over) 2o years away. I learned on 1e back in '79 and didn't mind the 2e rules when they came out because 1e was a bit of a mess with them slapping thing together in the early days to make a heavier "advanced" edition over basic. 3e and 3.5 did nothing for me and i stopped playing DnD. Some friends just talked me into playing again and I do love the role play of rpg's but the thing the irks me is the homogenization of the races in an attempt to correct some sense of racism from previous editions. And he's where I think it gets stupid! The early version were very human centric. Demi-humans where the older races and they were being out grown by humans. There was no penalty or bonus to being human, but your character could be anything. If you wanted to be a 1000 year elf, then fine, but you could only go to a certain level in a certain class. Want to be a really strong half-orc, great but you took a hit on intel.
It wasn't that people were being racist to goblins and orcs. They were created as a "premade" evil enemy to make it an easy good vs bad. Elves were racist to everyone including different types of elves. Dwarves were greedy, gnomes were reclusive, orcs were warlike. The only demi-humans really moving freely through the world were adventures and merchants. Humans were the predominate race and it was the most adaptable race for any character class. Demi-human characters were meant to be the fringe for flavor in a game.
We limited choices back then everyone wanted to play something crazy. Now to make the game as enticing (and sellable) as possible they have done that. The problem is people then say "why does my orc have to be dumb" or "why does my hobgoblin have to be evil". To make the game as friendly as possible to the most people, they have made it bland. Snowflakes are all unique, but a pile of them just looks like a clump of snow.
At the core of it i always go with the advise of Gygax back in the late 70's 1e ADnD PHB and DMG. He made it very clear that the "rules" were there to be used or ignored as the DM saw fit. If you like the mechanics (and they are way easier and more fluid now) them use them and keep the old lore. Just because the draw the minotaur to look like a metrosexual pirate cow-person and the hobgoblin to like like a Disney side character doesn't mean i have to make them look that way I my world.
I don't even know what OSR is, can't be that popular?
Yeah, I had to look it up, would be nice to actually define these terms in the OP.
OSR (Old School Renaissance) or OSE (Old School Essentials) is a fancy way of saying games based on pre-3.5 editions of D&D.
I think it's great that fans of older editions can still play them and have new content to use. But I don't think 5e is being mismanaged really, its just targeted at a different demographic. I don't think it's fair to call that demographic "immature," since that carries inferior connotations. It's just a player base that's looking for a different style of entertainment.
My homebrew subclasses (full list here)
(Artificer) Swordmage | Glasswright | (Barbarian) Path of the Savage Embrace
(Bard) College of Dance | (Fighter) Warlord | Cannoneer
(Monk) Way of the Elements | (Ranger) Blade Dancer
(Rogue) DaggerMaster | Inquisitor | (Sorcerer) Riftwalker | Spellfist
(Warlock) The Swarm
"Yes, but" I don't like your insinuations. I think it's because 5e isn't producing the types of products people who are inclined to like OSR material want -- not because of politics.
Shorter modules, products centered on providing specific rules to drive a theme rather than doing so with descriptions and visuals. Less rendered, more interpretive artwork. Differently balanced classes. A desire to experience "the classics." These are the things I think are driving people to the OSR, insofar as people are being driven to the OSR.
As an aside, I really prefer when a piece of art evokes strong verbal description from me, the DM, rather than simply being gorgeous in itself -- I'm not trying to show my players slideshows every few minutes.
Are you on Reddit or YouTube?
There are communities enjoying OSR aside from forums which are populated by an older demographic.
I am on both and frequently browse D&D subreddits and youtube channels. I am not sure I have seen OSR referenced once. Granted, I have not sought out OSR-specific subreddits or channels, but in my defense I did not know such a thing even existed. So I would err to say its niche
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Compared to 5e it’s not. But there are thousands of players around the world playing OSE, knave, Labyrinth Lord, Osric, and others as well as a huge amount of high quality content put out through kickstarter and available through avenues like DrivethruRPG.
This forum is 5e centric, rightly so, but there are other successful games out there. Pathfinder for example.
Of course this forum is 5e centric, it's the forum for a Toolset/publisher that produces exclusively official WotC 5e material.
Pathfinder's numbers aren't as close to 5es. No TTRPG has sales numbers and engagement anywhere close to 5es. Hasbro's revenue largely leaning on D&D is testimony to that. No one, even the big ENNIE winners, are close to those figures. And that says nothing about the quality of the many OSR and frankly just other TTRPGs out there, nor the actual fun people have playing game systems that aren't 5e. ENNIES exist to prove that.
This thread was created predicated on the notion that 5e's owners are doing something wrong in their management of the Dungeon and Dragons property driving people to play OSR games. I"m sure there are some folks who seek in OSR an experience that they weren't getting in 5e; but there are a lot of reasons people migrate from 5e to other game systems, and it's not the notion that there is some flaw in 5e. I'd say the big flaw in the OP's contention is that frequent gamers are one system gamers. That's just not the true.
And as for your "have you been on YouTube or Reddit" the volume of traffic on both of those outlets as well as Discords TikTok's etc pertaining to 5E probably dwarfs the entirety of OSR if not TTRPG in general. And again, in no way does that denigrate the quality of those other games products or caliber of their players.
In short, someone clearly wanted to start a fight thread, the language used is entirely 85% hit piece on 5e and 15% "old school used to be hard but we got computers not" (which is a weird trajectory. I'm not sure what you're contending by asserting 5es existence, it doesn't serve as a corrective of many posters (of many ages) and players of 5e who haven't heard of 5e or other major tabletop publishers.
Jander Sunstar is the thinking person's Drizzt, fight me.
It is niche but unless you only visit dndnext reddits you will find OSR referenced on DnD, DungeonsandDragons and RPG Reddits.
The YouTube algorithm will decide what you watch according to what you search.
OSR is a different style of play, less character oriented and many of us enjoy that. I really am not trying to convince anyone to play OSR, I couldn’t care less what you enjoy, and I am also a fan of 5e because it is much more OSR “like” than 3 or 4th edition.
This poll is about the perception of WOTC vision and whether that would nudge folk already aware of OSR in that direction. I believe that the results will be 5e skewed by the fact that most here haven’t even heard of knave or OSE.
YouTube's algorithms especially also drive users toward things they're already predisposed to "like", in that they've already searched for it or clicked on something similar
The fact that you might see a lot of OSR-related videos does not in any way mean the majority of people looking for D&D videos will also see them
Active characters:
Carric Aquissar, elven wannabe artist in his deconstructionist period (Archfey warlock)
Lan Kidogo, mapach archaeologist and treasure hunter (Knowledge cleric)
Mardan Ferres, elven private investigator obsessed with that one unsolved murder (Assassin rogue)
Xhekhetiel, halfling survivor of a Betrayer Gods cult (Runechild sorcerer/fighter)
Yeah, Questing Beast has a subscriber base in the 50k range ... Dungeon Dudes to pick a not high tier D&D 5e channel has seven times as much.
Xiante, you're not so much being a troll as being a trope. Whenever WotC hits a crit (but not commercial) fail, OSR folks come onto this board trying to evangelize "the better way." It's the sort of stuff that's probably easily calibrated by social media analytics, in fact I wouldn't be surprised if it wasn't driven by analytics (that is, algorithmically identified OSR types get "bad news" about a 5e release through their channels supporting their independent thought, and then join the lists here ... and somewhere a League of Legends marketer gets their green win stat.
Jander Sunstar is the thinking person's Drizzt, fight me.
Very true.
Neither troll nor trope, nor willing to argue.
I have stated nothing other than:
I like 5e but prefer OSR without denigrating or trying to convert modern system aficionados. Don’t really care which system is more popular, bigger, better or any other metric you may care to apply.
Some users feel that the game design direction of WOTC is not to their liking and those users, already aware of b/x style of play, like myself, will vote with their wallets. I already have.
I hope the OP wasn’t simply trying to start a fight and if he was, I’m out, as there is no winning against a predetermined point of view which classes someone as a troll or trope which is an extremely banal dismissal with the pretence of not being insulting.
Play what you want. The best thing WOTC did recently was give LMoP away for free as it is far and away the best module they ever released.