To me the books they release for 5e have followed a pattern. It has been broken with Spelljammer and Eberron.... but something feels like it is still missing to me. Just my feeling on things...
I started wonder if 6e books will just be a rehashing of the same pattern with a revised rules set. What would you do differently with the books you launch in 6e in comparison to 5e and maybe other, previous editions?
Honestly what I want is more home brew options, not more adventures. I like creating worlds. So I would want to see more things that support that.
Including some lore would be a nice way to buck the trend. Spelljammer? You think there might be a paragraph or two in there on how to incorporate that into "x" currently "supported" setting? Nah, that might involve some work, or employing a proof-reader.
I guess the best way to "not include hateful content" is not to include content, glorious act of self-policing there Wotc.
In some ways, yeah. I will say I was VERY happy with Shadow of the Dragon Queen, though keep in mind I speak as someone new to Krynn. I felt it gave me exactly as much lore as I needed to comprehend the situation, and sink in at my own pace.
Spelljammer, on the other hand.... oh god, THAT was a disappointment and a half. I say that as someone who has been tangentally familiar with Spelljammer (I've glanced over a friends books, and mostly integrated things I've seen online into our Planescape server). The Jammer boxset felt like it existed to check off a list on a release schedule, and seemed to deliver the bare minimum of content (art aside, the art was great).
That is all to say; I think SotDQ was a step in the right direction. I'd be happy if they do MORE lore in the future, but I'll also not be upset if that's the model they use for the upcoming Planescape material. Just as long as they give us SOMETHING to work with, unlike the Jammer books...
The advantage books beyond the core books have like Spelljammer for instance is that the mechanics are written for a specific setting while the core mechanics of a D&D edition are written without this context. Its actually the advantage most RPG's have over D&D. Take Pathfinder 2e for example, its specifically written for the world of Golarion. This means that anywhere mechanics are written, you can add narrative flavor within that context, something core D&D books have to very intentionally avoid.
D&D is not a setting, its actually worse for D&D because it represents a wide range of settings that very specifically contradict each other. Creating "the multiverse" was an attempt to bring this all together but the reality is that anything you state to be true in the core rulebook will be true for some setting and definitively false in others.
While I don't own many 5e books, I'd like to see more optional rules for DMs to incorporate into their games, possibly tied to each setting. For example, the piety system in Theros. Or a crafting system for a Dark Sun-eque setting. Or a potion-brewing/spellcrafting system for idk, an Elder Scrolls-esque setting.
It's just shocking how bad that Spelljammer boxset is. If I didn't know "the history" of Jammer and only came at it from 5e... "oh, by the way this can exist in your campaign"... Seriously? No one noticed a Spelljammer/spaceport in FR/Theros/Ravenloft? You'd think there'd at least me a token nod to the old "how to incorporate this into your setting" fluff that everything used to come with and damn those Spelljammer books are slim :/
...and I think that's where I'm "out". That's the nail in the coffin that "got me". Maximum profit for minimum effort... if there's no Lore involved I shant be attending. The Giants book and Planescape are things I personally want to look forwards to, but I'll be damned if I spend money for them. I've got enough 2nd, 3rd and 4th Ed books for that Lore anyway - and what I personally really miss is that Wonder of opening a book and having my imagination take off. To me, that's the D&D experience I want (from the books) along with the statblocks and pretty pictures - I want the text to be something that fires me - even if I don't use it - a la Krynn, I'd still take a copy if the price(s) were a bit more reasonable because those ideas can spur stuff. Like the plot(s)/sidequests that I steal from TV shows, album art or wherever on earth inspiration comes from.
It's not coming to me from D&D - and that makes me geniunely sad. We're NERDS - READING is "our thing".
To answer the OP - WOTC needed to embrace the content creators years back. There's some damned nice settings, modules and content in various other places.
It's 2023, digital publishing exists, "print on demand" vinyl exists. Did I mention there's no shortage of nerds? ...or content?
Employ a proof-reader to cut out the hateful content (if any) and promote it at virtually no cost to WOTC other than maybe another techie web dude and a Proof Reader. Grow a set and put out some content. Hell, put out 1x Setting/Campaign guide and 2x modules for it twice a year say $50 for all 3 the digital books as a package. Get some quality out there (it REALLY DOES exist). Monetise it and have the knock on effect of clawing back some community good-will and create 2x jobs (as a bare minimum). All the actual creation and art is handled by "noob" setting designer/writer/whoever-however they've done it and give them a good deal on the back end as a %. Wotc are then only paying for 1x Proof Reader and maybe 1x "web dude/dudette?" - I use "dude" as non-gender specific.
Bring some wonder back into the game - because the Nerds that are gonna come into the hobby (off the back of the movie/game/series/etc. etc.) they're gonna be the kids/tweens/teens like us - and they're reading Harry Potter/Dresden Files/Narnia/Pullman etc. and "mom/dad/non-nuclear-family-householder - there's a D&D setting that's "space detectives like my favourite book series and that what I want for Atheistmas this year" - and bang! D&D's set a kids-adults mind alight, like it damned well should do. 2x "supported settings"/year with minimal financial outlay (in Hasbro terms) is no big deal, but the returns... Hell, nearly 35 years later I'm still here wanting that imagination-fix after getting the Red Box 2nd-hand/used and just being in wonder because "game where I'm the hero" - and that doesn't have to exclude micro-transactions/skins/35-flavour of chroma-keyed, ridiculous-looking Vorpal swords at $10 a pop if Wotc want to do that too - but... this is where Wotc has lost their way. They've alienated the customer-for-life and they're not doing much (anything) to bring noobs in.
So it's down to us - because film/game/series WILL bring noobs in and we need to point them to "other systems" where they can get that, not because we hate Wotc, but because we want the hobby to thrive and that next-gen of writers/artists - just kids that read to have a good home. ...there's some stunning creators out there and guess what? They've been shown the door - with a sign hanging on it and the sign's had an ugly message on it that says "you're not welcome".
Chris Cao needs to go - wrong dude for the job.
Wotc need to actually do something with and for the community and it means bringing in content creators, sitting them down by the hearth and giving them a bowl of steaming stew and tankard of honey-mead, whilst the bard plays some Alice Coltrane on a 19 string guitar and the cat with "weird eyes" sits on your lap and mesmerises you into a good short rest so you can get up and fight the dragon well-rested, Quill in hand and an ambundance of hight quality Chultan parchment.
Bring those people in from the cold, let them create and give them the stamp of approval where it's been earned. It's not rockery silence.
The advantage books beyond the core books have like Spelljammer for instance is that the mechanics are written for a specific setting while the core mechanics of a D&D edition are written without this context. Its actually the advantage most RPG's have over D&D. Take Pathfinder 2e for example, its specifically written for the world of Golarion. This means that anywhere mechanics are written, you can add narrative flavor within that context, something core D&D books have to very intentionally avoid.
D&D is not a setting, its actually worse for D&D because it represents a wide range of settings that very specifically contradict each other. Creating "the multiverse" was an attempt to bring this all together but the reality is that anything you state to be true in the core rulebook will be true for some setting and definitively false in others.
Eh, I actually like this about D&D. In fact, I think 5e sticks too close to Faerun, which is a setting I never cared for much.
I stick to custom campaign worlds outside of one-shots or short, self-contained adventures that could be sold as just that. I don't want pre-baked narrative flavor in my rules and mechanics because I want to insert my own. I find value in separate setting books like Theros or Strixhaven because I can reappropriate bits and pieces I liked into my own worlds.
Really the only thing I feel is missing from the current model is more player-centric splatbooks. For example, 5e is in desperate need of a martial-focused book with new subclasses, weapons, and feats focused on non-spellcasters.
This may sound like "sour grapes" especially right now, but D&D does not need another Faerun book, maybe ever. I don't think "the setting's" run its course, it's just "finished/complete - fully fleshed out, done, cooked" maybe not to a specific idea of perfection, but I could spend the rest of my life in Faerun as a DM and not be done exploring it.
I think a nod to it, brief "How to mix this with X setting" is good, a page, maybe 2.
With those tiny addenda - you're 99% right. I'd love some well written Official or "Officially Endorsed" splatbooks of various flavours - I'd like new settings too, I'd like an extra 6 "better budget" books a year, Officially endorsed/community products that do "cool stuff" for D&D and give writers/creators value and something back to the community.
Martial-stuff would be awesome too and you're 100% right on how you approach/reappropriate bits and pieces - my Forgotten Realms is not your Forgotten Realms - it's a conversation for each of our tables as and when it needs to happen and it's how the playgroup collectively imagine the world.
...but there's that issue again. Wotc aren't embracing Exciting Creators Tm - they just want to sell skins and loot boxes.
The advantage books beyond the core books have like Spelljammer for instance is that the mechanics are written for a specific setting while the core mechanics of a D&D edition are written without this context. Its actually the advantage most RPG's have over D&D. Take Pathfinder 2e for example, its specifically written for the world of Golarion. This means that anywhere mechanics are written, you can add narrative flavor within that context, something core D&D books have to very intentionally avoid.
D&D is not a setting, its actually worse for D&D because it represents a wide range of settings that very specifically contradict each other. Creating "the multiverse" was an attempt to bring this all together but the reality is that anything you state to be true in the core rulebook will be true for some setting and definitively false in others.
Eh, I actually like this about D&D. In fact, I think 5e sticks too close to Faerun, which is a setting I never cared for much.
I stick to custom campaign worlds outside of one-shots or short, self-contained adventures that could be sold as just that. I don't want pre-baked narrative flavor in my rules and mechanics because I want to insert my own. I find value in separate setting books like Theros or Strixhaven because I can reappropriate bits and pieces I liked into my own worlds.
Really the only thing I feel is missing from the current model is more player-centric splatbooks. For example, 5e is in desperate need of a martial-focused book with new subclasses, weapons, and feats focused on non-spellcasters.
I'm not making a case for changing it to be more setting-specific, I'm simply answering the question "why it's so formulaic"... this is why.
The advantage of a generic fantasy system like D&D is that it's easier to adapt to homebrew settings, the drawback is that it becomes complicated when you try to start designing less generic things.. like, say unique Martial classes.
Honestly what I want is more home brew options, not more adventures. I like creating worlds. So I would want to see more things that support that.
I think a lot of people want a mix of stuff. I personally won't both adventure and homebrew options.
I too like creating and playing in worlds of my own design. That being said, setting books and adventures are still useful when I don't have the time or energy to make things myself. Honestly, I agree that there should be more books with homebrew options for both DMs and players. That being said, different types of books appeal to different types of people, and I'm mostly fine with the types of books Wizards has been releasing of late.
If I somehow became in charge of what books Wizards would release, I would do a mix of player options, setting and adventure books, and DM resources. Admittedly, Dungeon Master stuff might not sell as well, but it's still cool. One important thing that Wizards needs to do is make sure there are setting books for most - if not all - of the beloved D&D worlds.
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BoringBard's long and tedious posts somehow manage to enrapture audiences. How? Because he used Charm Person, the #1 bard spell!
He/him pronouns. Call me Bard. PROUD NERD!
Ever wanted to talk about your parties' worst mistakes? Do so HERE. What's your favorite class, why? Share & explainHERE.
To me the books they release for 5e have followed a pattern. It has been broken with Spelljammer and Eberron.... but something feels like it is still missing to me. Just my feeling on things...
I started wonder if 6e books will just be a rehashing of the same pattern with a revised rules set. What would you do differently with the books you launch in 6e in comparison to 5e and maybe other, previous editions?
Honestly what I want is more home brew options, not more adventures. I like creating worlds. So I would want to see more things that support that.
What sort of pattern? And how did spelljammer and eberron break it? Can you describe a bit more? I’m really not sure what you’re getting at.
And lots of the books are about homebrew options, pretty much everything that’s not a setting book is homebrew-friendly. The ones with little bite-sized adventures you can drop in to any world (candlekeep, radiant citadel, golden vault) ones with lots of random crap (xanathar’s, Tasha’s, probably the deck of many things). Something like fizban (and probably giants) gives lots of non-setting specific stuff you can choose to use or not.
And some setting books have pieces you can steal for homebrew — theros has piety, ravinca has guild memberships, wildemount has cool magic items in the vestiges of divergence.
Even spelljammer ends up being (accidentally) homebrew friendly, if only because you need to homebrew to be able to use it.
I get the very real feeling that Spelljammer was only put out to capture the setting in a copyright sense.
Now that the setting has been published third party content can only be published under WotC's approval. Getting more detailed might just have limited them in legal claims. Leaving it as open as possible gives them some leverage in court. It also lets third party publishers build everything they WotC wants with no cost to WotC.
Think of the wording of the OGL "draft". It gave them access and rights to third party content.
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To me the books they release for 5e have followed a pattern. It has been broken with Spelljammer and Eberron.... but something feels like it is still missing to me. Just my feeling on things...
I started wonder if 6e books will just be a rehashing of the same pattern with a revised rules set. What would you do differently with the books you launch in 6e in comparison to 5e and maybe other, previous editions?
Honestly what I want is more home brew options, not more adventures. I like creating worlds. So I would want to see more things that support that.
"What you saw belongs to you. A story doesn't live until it is imagined in someone's mind."
― Brandon Sanderson, The Way of Kings
Yes lol.
Including some lore would be a nice way to buck the trend. Spelljammer? You think there might be a paragraph or two in there on how to incorporate that into "x" currently "supported" setting? Nah, that might involve some work, or employing a proof-reader.
I guess the best way to "not include hateful content" is not to include content, glorious act of self-policing there Wotc.
https://wulfgold.substack.com
Blog - nerd stuff
https://deepdreamgenerator.com/u/wulfgold
A.I. art - also nerd stuff - a gallery of NPC portraits - help yourself.
In some ways, yeah. I will say I was VERY happy with Shadow of the Dragon Queen, though keep in mind I speak as someone new to Krynn. I felt it gave me exactly as much lore as I needed to comprehend the situation, and sink in at my own pace.
Spelljammer, on the other hand.... oh god, THAT was a disappointment and a half. I say that as someone who has been tangentally familiar with Spelljammer (I've glanced over a friends books, and mostly integrated things I've seen online into our Planescape server). The Jammer boxset felt like it existed to check off a list on a release schedule, and seemed to deliver the bare minimum of content (art aside, the art was great).
That is all to say; I think SotDQ was a step in the right direction. I'd be happy if they do MORE lore in the future, but I'll also not be upset if that's the model they use for the upcoming Planescape material. Just as long as they give us SOMETHING to work with, unlike the Jammer books...
The advantage books beyond the core books have like Spelljammer for instance is that the mechanics are written for a specific setting while the core mechanics of a D&D edition are written without this context. Its actually the advantage most RPG's have over D&D. Take Pathfinder 2e for example, its specifically written for the world of Golarion. This means that anywhere mechanics are written, you can add narrative flavor within that context, something core D&D books have to very intentionally avoid.
D&D is not a setting, its actually worse for D&D because it represents a wide range of settings that very specifically contradict each other. Creating "the multiverse" was an attempt to bring this all together but the reality is that anything you state to be true in the core rulebook will be true for some setting and definitively false in others.
While I don't own many 5e books, I'd like to see more optional rules for DMs to incorporate into their games, possibly tied to each setting. For example, the piety system in Theros. Or a crafting system for a Dark Sun-eque setting. Or a potion-brewing/spellcrafting system for idk, an Elder Scrolls-esque setting.
[REDACTED]
Krynn's not my thing - it's just not my flavour.
It's just shocking how bad that Spelljammer boxset is. If I didn't know "the history" of Jammer and only came at it from 5e... "oh, by the way this can exist in your campaign"... Seriously? No one noticed a Spelljammer/spaceport in FR/Theros/Ravenloft? You'd think there'd at least me a token nod to the old "how to incorporate this into your setting" fluff that everything used to come with and damn those Spelljammer books are slim :/
...and I think that's where I'm "out". That's the nail in the coffin that "got me". Maximum profit for minimum effort... if there's no Lore involved I shant be attending. The Giants book and Planescape are things I personally want to look forwards to, but I'll be damned if I spend money for them. I've got enough 2nd, 3rd and 4th Ed books for that Lore anyway - and what I personally really miss is that Wonder of opening a book and having my imagination take off. To me, that's the D&D experience I want (from the books) along with the statblocks and pretty pictures - I want the text to be something that fires me - even if I don't use it - a la Krynn, I'd still take a copy if the price(s) were a bit more reasonable because those ideas can spur stuff. Like the plot(s)/sidequests that I steal from TV shows, album art or wherever on earth inspiration comes from.
It's not coming to me from D&D - and that makes me geniunely sad. We're NERDS - READING is "our thing".
To answer the OP - WOTC needed to embrace the content creators years back. There's some damned nice settings, modules and content in various other places.
It's 2023, digital publishing exists, "print on demand" vinyl exists. Did I mention there's no shortage of nerds? ...or content?
Employ a proof-reader to cut out the hateful content (if any) and promote it at virtually no cost to WOTC other than maybe another techie web dude and a Proof Reader. Grow a set and put out some content. Hell, put out 1x Setting/Campaign guide and 2x modules for it twice a year say $50 for all 3 the digital books as a package. Get some quality out there (it REALLY DOES exist). Monetise it and have the knock on effect of clawing back some community good-will and create 2x jobs (as a bare minimum). All the actual creation and art is handled by "noob" setting designer/writer/whoever-however they've done it and give them a good deal on the back end as a %. Wotc are then only paying for 1x Proof Reader and maybe 1x "web dude/dudette?" - I use "dude" as non-gender specific.
Bring some wonder back into the game - because the Nerds that are gonna come into the hobby (off the back of the movie/game/series/etc. etc.) they're gonna be the kids/tweens/teens like us - and they're reading Harry Potter/Dresden Files/Narnia/Pullman etc. and "mom/dad/non-nuclear-family-householder - there's a D&D setting that's "space detectives like my favourite book series and that what I want for Atheistmas this year" - and bang! D&D's set a kids-adults mind alight, like it damned well should do. 2x "supported settings"/year with minimal financial outlay (in Hasbro terms) is no big deal, but the returns... Hell, nearly 35 years later I'm still here wanting that imagination-fix after getting the Red Box 2nd-hand/used and just being in wonder because "game where I'm the hero" - and that doesn't have to exclude micro-transactions/skins/35-flavour of chroma-keyed, ridiculous-looking Vorpal swords at $10 a pop if Wotc want to do that too - but... this is where Wotc has lost their way. They've alienated the customer-for-life and they're not doing much (anything) to bring noobs in.
So it's down to us - because film/game/series WILL bring noobs in and we need to point them to "other systems" where they can get that, not because we hate Wotc, but because we want the hobby to thrive and that next-gen of writers/artists - just kids that read to have a good home. ...there's some stunning creators out there and guess what? They've been shown the door - with a sign hanging on it and the sign's had an ugly message on it that says "you're not welcome".
Chris Cao needs to go - wrong dude for the job.
Wotc need to actually do something with and for the community and it means bringing in content creators, sitting them down by the hearth and giving them a bowl of steaming stew and tankard of honey-mead, whilst the bard plays some Alice Coltrane on a 19 string guitar and the cat with "weird eyes" sits on your lap and mesmerises you into a good short rest so you can get up and fight the dragon well-rested, Quill in hand and an ambundance of hight quality Chultan parchment.
Bring those people in from the cold, let them create and give them the stamp of approval where it's been earned. It's not rockery silence.
https://wulfgold.substack.com
Blog - nerd stuff
https://deepdreamgenerator.com/u/wulfgold
A.I. art - also nerd stuff - a gallery of NPC portraits - help yourself.
Eh, I actually like this about D&D. In fact, I think 5e sticks too close to Faerun, which is a setting I never cared for much.
I stick to custom campaign worlds outside of one-shots or short, self-contained adventures that could be sold as just that. I don't want pre-baked narrative flavor in my rules and mechanics because I want to insert my own. I find value in separate setting books like Theros or Strixhaven because I can reappropriate bits and pieces I liked into my own worlds.
Really the only thing I feel is missing from the current model is more player-centric splatbooks. For example, 5e is in desperate need of a martial-focused book with new subclasses, weapons, and feats focused on non-spellcasters.
My homebrew subclasses (full list here)
(Artificer) Swordmage | Glasswright | (Barbarian) Path of the Savage Embrace
(Bard) College of Dance | (Fighter) Warlord | Cannoneer
(Monk) Way of the Elements | (Ranger) Blade Dancer
(Rogue) DaggerMaster | Inquisitor | (Sorcerer) Riftwalker | Spellfist
(Warlock) The Swarm
I <3 Faerun - it's the D&D I grew up with.
This may sound like "sour grapes" especially right now, but D&D does not need another Faerun book, maybe ever. I don't think "the setting's" run its course, it's just "finished/complete - fully fleshed out, done, cooked" maybe not to a specific idea of perfection, but I could spend the rest of my life in Faerun as a DM and not be done exploring it.
I think a nod to it, brief "How to mix this with X setting" is good, a page, maybe 2.
With those tiny addenda - you're 99% right. I'd love some well written Official or "Officially Endorsed" splatbooks of various flavours - I'd like new settings too, I'd like an extra 6 "better budget" books a year, Officially endorsed/community products that do "cool stuff" for D&D and give writers/creators value and something back to the community.
Martial-stuff would be awesome too and you're 100% right on how you approach/reappropriate bits and pieces - my Forgotten Realms is not your Forgotten Realms - it's a conversation for each of our tables as and when it needs to happen and it's how the playgroup collectively imagine the world.
...but there's that issue again. Wotc aren't embracing Exciting Creators Tm - they just want to sell skins and loot boxes.
https://wulfgold.substack.com
Blog - nerd stuff
https://deepdreamgenerator.com/u/wulfgold
A.I. art - also nerd stuff - a gallery of NPC portraits - help yourself.
I'm not making a case for changing it to be more setting-specific, I'm simply answering the question "why it's so formulaic"... this is why.
The advantage of a generic fantasy system like D&D is that it's easier to adapt to homebrew settings, the drawback is that it becomes complicated when you try to start designing less generic things.. like, say unique Martial classes.
I think a lot of people want a mix of stuff. I personally won't both adventure and homebrew options.
I too like creating and playing in worlds of my own design. That being said, setting books and adventures are still useful when I don't have the time or energy to make things myself. Honestly, I agree that there should be more books with homebrew options for both DMs and players. That being said, different types of books appeal to different types of people, and I'm mostly fine with the types of books Wizards has been releasing of late.
If I somehow became in charge of what books Wizards would release, I would do a mix of player options, setting and adventure books, and DM resources. Admittedly, Dungeon Master stuff might not sell as well, but it's still cool. One important thing that Wizards needs to do is make sure there are setting books for most - if not all - of the beloved D&D worlds.
BoringBard's long and tedious posts somehow manage to enrapture audiences. How? Because he used Charm Person, the #1 bard spell!
He/him pronouns. Call me Bard. PROUD NERD!
Ever wanted to talk about your parties' worst mistakes? Do so HERE. What's your favorite class, why? Share & explain
HERE.What sort of pattern? And how did spelljammer and eberron break it? Can you describe a bit more? I’m really not sure what you’re getting at.
And lots of the books are about homebrew options, pretty much everything that’s not a setting book is homebrew-friendly.
The ones with little bite-sized adventures you can drop in to any world (candlekeep, radiant citadel, golden vault) ones with lots of random crap (xanathar’s, Tasha’s, probably the deck of many things). Something like fizban (and probably giants) gives lots of non-setting specific stuff you can choose to use or not.
And some setting books have pieces you can steal for homebrew — theros has piety, ravinca has guild memberships, wildemount has cool magic items in the vestiges of divergence.
Even spelljammer ends up being (accidentally) homebrew friendly, if only because you need to homebrew to be able to use it.
I get the very real feeling that Spelljammer was only put out to capture the setting in a copyright sense.
Now that the setting has been published third party content can only be published under WotC's approval.
Getting more detailed might just have limited them in legal claims. Leaving it as open as possible gives them some leverage in court.
It also lets third party publishers build everything they WotC wants with no cost to WotC.
Think of the wording of the OGL "draft". It gave them access and rights to third party content.