I have a nightmare player, who not only butts into everyone else's RP but has major main-character syndrome. He showed up 2 hours late to my session 0, I have 10 players (yeah I was brave when I said I would DM for that many). There is so much more I could complain about like the fact he keeps adding random wonderous items and companions to his character without asking me first (big sigh) but I mainly want to get everyone's advice and knowledge on what to do with his character, he has decided to play a Rogue but basically wants to be able to do what an Artificer can do and create magical items etc. I don't think this is allowed... I asked why he didn't just go Artificer and he said "I want to be sneaky"... please can everyone help me try and not lose my shit with him.
There is so much more I could complain about like the fact he keeps adding random wonderous items and companions to his character without asking me first...
This right here is an instant kick for my groups. Not a single DM I know would deal with this, and I've had players like this and no matter how many times you tell them they will be the ones to constant try to pull some shit behind your back hoping you won't notice. It starts off with items mysteriously being added to their sheet, they will **** around with dice rolls and stats, and rules lawyer the hell out of you then complain that you are a bad DM when they don't get their own way.
If this player is new, tell them to stop or it's a kick. You can tell them you have too many players to be teaching someone new to D&D, so maybe another group that's smaller will be a better fit.
If they have played before, they most likely trying to take advantage of the fact you have 10 players to keep track, and will be nothing but a constant problem for you and the other players. If that's the case, kick them. We can read about it later on Reddit's RPG Horror Stories when they seek validation for messing up your game.
Take some space to run up and kick the player to the curb. The sheer audacity to continue acting like this after being told to stop multiple times is more than disrespectful to anyone in the group.
You'll still have enough work to do with 9 players. ;)
Running for 10 players isn't brave, it's campaign suicide. You just can't run a good game at that size. Break it into two groups and alternate sessions with them or something. This guy would have been a problem regardless, but few people are going to be at their best when they have to share the table with nine other people.
There is so much more I could complain about like the fact he keeps adding random wonderous items and companions to his character without asking me first...
This right here is an instant kick for my groups. Not a single DM I know would deal with this, and I've had players like this and no matter how many times you tell them they will be the ones to constant try to pull some shit behind your back hoping you won't notice. It starts off with items mysteriously being added to their sheet, they will **** around with dice rolls and stats, and rules lawyer the hell out of you then complain that you are a bad DM when they don't get their own way.
If this player is new, tell them to stop or it's a kick. You can tell them you have too many players to be teaching someone new to D&D, so maybe another group that's smaller will be a better fit.
If they have played before, they most likely trying to take advantage of the fact you have 10 players to keep track, and will be nothing but a constant problem for you and the other players. If that's the case, kick them. We can read about it later on Reddit's RPG Horror Stories when they seek validation for messing up your game.
He's an artificer, he can have infusions and create random wondrous items based on the table provided for artifiicers. He can have four infusions at level 2. He can also multi-class into rogue as well.
Its just as likely this is a DM not taking the time to read the classes playing at his own table problem.
There is so much more I could complain about like the fact he keeps adding random wonderous items and companions to his character without asking me first...
This right here is an instant kick for my groups. Not a single DM I know would deal with this, and I've had players like this and no matter how many times you tell them they will be the ones to constant try to pull some shit behind your back hoping you won't notice. It starts off with items mysteriously being added to their sheet, they will **** around with dice rolls and stats, and rules lawyer the hell out of you then complain that you are a bad DM when they don't get their own way.
If this player is new, tell them to stop or it's a kick. You can tell them you have too many players to be teaching someone new to D&D, so maybe another group that's smaller will be a better fit.
If they have played before, they most likely trying to take advantage of the fact you have 10 players to keep track, and will be nothing but a constant problem for you and the other players. If that's the case, kick them. We can read about it later on Reddit's RPG Horror Stories when they seek validation for messing up your game.
He's an artificer, he can have infusions and create random wondrous items based on the table provided for artifiicers. He can have four infusions at level 2. He can also multi-class into rogue as well.
Its just as likely this is a DM not taking the time to read the classes playing at his own table problem.
Read the post; the player's character a Rogue but is trying to just magically have/create a bunch of magic items.
There is so much more I could complain about like the fact he keeps adding random wonderous items and companions to his character without asking me first...
This right here is an instant kick for my groups. Not a single DM I know would deal with this, and I've had players like this and no matter how many times you tell them they will be the ones to constant try to pull some shit behind your back hoping you won't notice. It starts off with items mysteriously being added to their sheet, they will **** around with dice rolls and stats, and rules lawyer the hell out of you then complain that you are a bad DM when they don't get their own way.
If this player is new, tell them to stop or it's a kick. You can tell them you have too many players to be teaching someone new to D&D, so maybe another group that's smaller will be a better fit.
If they have played before, they most likely trying to take advantage of the fact you have 10 players to keep track, and will be nothing but a constant problem for you and the other players. If that's the case, kick them. We can read about it later on Reddit's RPG Horror Stories when they seek validation for messing up your game.
He's an artificer, he can have infusions and create random wondrous items based on the table provided for artifiicers. He can have four infusions at level 2. He can also multi-class into rogue as well.
Its just as likely this is a DM not taking the time to read the classes playing at his own table problem.
The problem isn't one that has to do with the mechanics of the game, but more so with a player being disrespectful towards the DM. The DM has already tried to resolve the issue by speaking with the player multiple times, but the player continues to take actions (that have nothing to do with mechanics) that the DM perceives as disrespectful. Maybe this player should read up on table etiquette.
If it were a simple case of a DM just not knowing the class features, the advice I would have given would be geared more towards reading up on the class, and communicating to the player that they should, at the very least, know how their character works inside and out. However, we were already well beyond the coaching phase in this case, and from what the DM has communicated to us the only reasonable choice was to kick the problem player.
Also, with 10 players at the table the DM probably should cut some loose anyway, so if someone is being a problem it makes more sense to cut that person first. Even some of the greatest DM's with the best players will have trouble running a table with 10 participants.
On a side note: I'm sorry if this comes off as kind of rude, but we need to stop blaming DM's for every problem a game has. Players outnumber us by so much that even when we reach out for help it ultimately becomes a bunch of toxic players who feel offended, and will start bashing the DM in the comments, which is probably why nobody likes to DM anymore because most of the time you're just getting shit on by the community for the slightest infractions. DM's need more room to make mistakes so they can learn and grow without being in fear of community backlash.
To be honest, I think everyone, DM and Player, needs to reassess how they approach the game. I'm not really thinking of this thread in particular, but I generally find that people in these kids of threads rarely remember that this is a collaborative game and that we're there just as much to help others have fun as to have fun ourselves - and the feedback loop from doing that is what makes it so much more fun than playing Skyrim or whatever.
What would I do if I were the OP? Well, the group needs a cull of 50%. Regardless of behaviour, I tend to find that four players is the sweet spot (with three or five still being really good) and the further you get from that the worse things get. If we say that the DM takes 50% of the time (if you include set up times for combat etc as DM time, that's probably not a bad approximation), that leaves 12 minutes per player, in a four hour session. That's going to lead to problems. If you can cut the party size down by half (to five), then that's already up to 25 minutes, which is, not quite intuitively, more than twice as good as 12 minutes because it encourages engagement, so not only are they playing more, but each minute of play is more fun. You also massively reduce cross chatter, which improves the game as well.
If you can, divide it into two campaigns. You could even have a shared campaign - two parties in the same world where the actions of one can have an impact on the other, if you have the skills to manage it properly. If not, then get someone else to step up as DM and run a second game. Personally, I've found that this happens organically - as a campaign gets too big, people get bored (due to aforementioned problems) and break off to form their own group, but you may need to instigate it.
You may even find that resolves your problem with this player (either they end up in the other group or their behaviour was a reaction to the problems with having a large group). If they stay in your group, I'd have a chat with them and ask them about why the items keep appearing. Don't accuse - even if they're cheating, you want them to have a way out that allows them to save face - and just explain that it's not how it works. You as DM will tell them when they've gained one. If they want the features of an Artificer, they have to take the levels in Artificer. If it happens again, explain that everyone wants to play on level footing, which is why the rules are there. The rules are the conditions for playing in the group. If it carries on, then there's not much you can do but tell them to leave.
I'd look at reducing the group size first. That could well be the root of the problem.
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Id also recommend you split the group of 9 into 2 groups, one of 5 players and another of 4. Itll make it easier for you to tun, and let everyone shine more. Of course, you guys could all be happy as is, and thats fine.
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Split the group, if it is a sandbox game let both groups run in the same world. My son ,who plays with the same DM ,in the same world as i do, has good fun giving out to me that he has deal with the prison break or burning building that my group caused. And he somehow managed to let a killer robot loose on the city where i was.
An Artificer at lvl2 knows 4 infusions, but any day he can only use two of them. (There is a magical tinkering feature, but that is more a prestidigitations kind of thing, simple sounds or noises)
Also when you take the „Replicate Magic item“ Infusion, you choose wich specific item when you lvl up.
There is so much more I could complain about like the fact he keeps adding random wonderous items and companions to his character without asking me first...
This right here is an instant kick for my groups. Not a single DM I know would deal with this, and I've had players like this and no matter how many times you tell them they will be the ones to constant try to pull some shit behind your back hoping you won't notice. It starts off with items mysteriously being added to their sheet, they will **** around with dice rolls and stats, and rules lawyer the hell out of you then complain that you are a bad DM when they don't get their own way.
If this player is new, tell them to stop or it's a kick. You can tell them you have too many players to be teaching someone new to D&D, so maybe another group that's smaller will be a better fit.
If they have played before, they most likely trying to take advantage of the fact you have 10 players to keep track, and will be nothing but a constant problem for you and the other players. If that's the case, kick them. We can read about it later on Reddit's RPG Horror Stories when they seek validation for messing up your game.
He's an artificer, he can have infusions and create random wondrous items based on the table provided for artifiicers. He can have four infusions at level 2. He can also multi-class into rogue as well.
Its just as likely this is a DM not taking the time to read the classes playing at his own table problem.
The problem isn't one that has to do with the mechanics of the game, but more so with a player being disrespectful towards the DM. The DM has already tried to resolve the issue by speaking with the player multiple times, but the player continues to take actions (that have nothing to do with mechanics) that the DM perceives as disrespectful. Maybe this player should read up on table etiquette.
If it were a simple case of a DM just not knowing the class features, the advice I would have given would be geared more towards reading up on the class, and communicating to the player that they should, at the very least, know how their character works inside and out. However, we were already well beyond the coaching phase in this case, and from what the DM has communicated to us the only reasonable choice was to kick the problem player.
Also, with 10 players at the table the DM probably should cut some loose anyway, so if someone is being a problem it makes more sense to cut that person first. Even some of the greatest DM's with the best players will have trouble running a table with 10 participants.
On a side note: I'm sorry if this comes off as kind of rude, but we need to stop blaming DM's for every problem a game has. Players outnumber us by so much that even when we reach out for help it ultimately becomes a bunch of toxic players who feel offended, and will start bashing the DM in the comments, which is probably why nobody likes to DM anymore because most of the time you're just getting shit on by the community for the slightest infractions. DM's need more room to make mistakes so they can learn and grow without being in fear of community backlash.
The DM had issues with an artificer bringing in random wondrous items. He didn't state whether it was infusions or not. You don't automatically assume someone understands what they are writing. An artificer can have 4 infusions at lower levels, so potentially he could have random wondrous items coming into the game if the DM didn't read his class. And yes he multiclass into rogue and still have those wondrous items. The DM didn't list the items or state anything about the artificer using infusions. And then you got a red flag on the DM, putting 10 people in a group, that's not a great idea from a table space, to a communication perspective and to giving everyone time to play.
If I had to guess, it's a novice DM who didn't know the rules dealing with a player with some social issues and he didn't know how to work with him or even know the class he's running. If you put a power gamer in with a novice DM, you will get everything the DM is talking about. I have plenty of rogues players who'd dip into artificer to get the repeating crossbow infusion, its a very common dip. Hell, one of my players at the hobby shop brought his girlfriend into play to specifically get that infusion, she looked a bit bored, but good girlfriends supports her man, so kudos to her.
This looks like a problem both with DM and Player.
I asked why he didn't just go Artificer and he said "I want to be sneaky"...
He's definitely playing a Rogue, it's not just a mix up of words. He's trying to pinch the features of being an Artificer without being one or dipping into one, which is mentioned earlier in the post:
...he keeps adding random wonderous items and companions to his character without asking me first...[he] basically wants to be able to do what an Artificer can do and create magical items etc....
This specific problem is that he's chosen to be a Rogue but is sneaking in wonderous items and companions(!), when he's a Rogue and doesn't qualify for either without a DM exception (unless they're talking about the retainers and he has a knight background). That's a problem regardless.
The only issue I've seen DM side is the 10-player thing, which is a significant one, but we don't know anything else. There are always two sides to these stories and were rarely told both, but we just don't know muc about the DM side of this beyond the 10 player thing (which I think could well be provoking the behaviour from someone who's getting bored from rarely actually playing.
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I have a nightmare player, who not only butts into everyone else's RP but has major main-character syndrome. He showed up 2 hours late to my session 0, I have 10 players (yeah I was brave when I said I would DM for that many). There is so much more I could complain about like the fact he keeps adding random wonderous items and companions to his character without asking me first (big sigh) but I mainly want to get everyone's advice and knowledge on what to do with his character, he has decided to play a Rogue but basically wants to be able to do what an Artificer can do and create magical items etc. I don't think this is allowed... I asked why he didn't just go Artificer and he said "I want to be sneaky"... please can everyone help me try and not lose my shit with him.
Step 1, have an out of character discussion and tell him to stop, or you’ll kick him from the group.
Step2, if he doesn’t stop, kick him from the group.
Or just skip step 1, 10 players is too much.
As for crafting, it only exists if you want it to. You can just say no crafting. If he doesn’t like it, see step 2.
Thank you, I did do Step 1 multiple times so I have gone straight to step 2 :)
:)
This right here is an instant kick for my groups. Not a single DM I know would deal with this, and I've had players like this and no matter how many times you tell them they will be the ones to constant try to pull some shit behind your back hoping you won't notice. It starts off with items mysteriously being added to their sheet, they will **** around with dice rolls and stats, and rules lawyer the hell out of you then complain that you are a bad DM when they don't get their own way.
If this player is new, tell them to stop or it's a kick. You can tell them you have too many players to be teaching someone new to D&D, so maybe another group that's smaller will be a better fit.
If they have played before, they most likely trying to take advantage of the fact you have 10 players to keep track, and will be nothing but a constant problem for you and the other players. If that's the case, kick them. We can read about it later on Reddit's RPG Horror Stories when they seek validation for messing up your game.
Take some space to run up and kick the player to the curb. The sheer audacity to continue acting like this after being told to stop multiple times is more than disrespectful to anyone in the group.
You'll still have enough work to do with 9 players. ;)
Running for 10 players isn't brave, it's campaign suicide. You just can't run a good game at that size. Break it into two groups and alternate sessions with them or something. This guy would have been a problem regardless, but few people are going to be at their best when they have to share the table with nine other people.
My homebrew subclasses (full list here)
(Artificer) Swordmage | Glasswright | (Barbarian) Path of the Savage Embrace
(Bard) College of Dance | (Fighter) Warlord | Cannoneer
(Monk) Way of the Elements | (Ranger) Blade Dancer
(Rogue) DaggerMaster | Inquisitor | (Sorcerer) Riftwalker | Spellfist
(Warlock) The Swarm
Agree that 9 players is too much.
4 or 5 have to go or be split off.
He's an artificer, he can have infusions and create random wondrous items based on the table provided for artifiicers. He can have four infusions at level 2. He can also multi-class into rogue as well.
Its just as likely this is a DM not taking the time to read the classes playing at his own table problem.
Read the post; the player's character a Rogue but is trying to just magically have/create a bunch of magic items.
The problem isn't one that has to do with the mechanics of the game, but more so with a player being disrespectful towards the DM. The DM has already tried to resolve the issue by speaking with the player multiple times, but the player continues to take actions (that have nothing to do with mechanics) that the DM perceives as disrespectful. Maybe this player should read up on table etiquette.
If it were a simple case of a DM just not knowing the class features, the advice I would have given would be geared more towards reading up on the class, and communicating to the player that they should, at the very least, know how their character works inside and out. However, we were already well beyond the coaching phase in this case, and from what the DM has communicated to us the only reasonable choice was to kick the problem player.
Also, with 10 players at the table the DM probably should cut some loose anyway, so if someone is being a problem it makes more sense to cut that person first. Even some of the greatest DM's with the best players will have trouble running a table with 10 participants.
On a side note: I'm sorry if this comes off as kind of rude, but we need to stop blaming DM's for every problem a game has. Players outnumber us by so much that even when we reach out for help it ultimately becomes a bunch of toxic players who feel offended, and will start bashing the DM in the comments, which is probably why nobody likes to DM anymore because most of the time you're just getting shit on by the community for the slightest infractions. DM's need more room to make mistakes so they can learn and grow without being in fear of community backlash.
To be honest, I think everyone, DM and Player, needs to reassess how they approach the game. I'm not really thinking of this thread in particular, but I generally find that people in these kids of threads rarely remember that this is a collaborative game and that we're there just as much to help others have fun as to have fun ourselves - and the feedback loop from doing that is what makes it so much more fun than playing Skyrim or whatever.
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What would I do if I were the OP? Well, the group needs a cull of 50%. Regardless of behaviour, I tend to find that four players is the sweet spot (with three or five still being really good) and the further you get from that the worse things get. If we say that the DM takes 50% of the time (if you include set up times for combat etc as DM time, that's probably not a bad approximation), that leaves 12 minutes per player, in a four hour session. That's going to lead to problems. If you can cut the party size down by half (to five), then that's already up to 25 minutes, which is, not quite intuitively, more than twice as good as 12 minutes because it encourages engagement, so not only are they playing more, but each minute of play is more fun. You also massively reduce cross chatter, which improves the game as well.
If you can, divide it into two campaigns. You could even have a shared campaign - two parties in the same world where the actions of one can have an impact on the other, if you have the skills to manage it properly. If not, then get someone else to step up as DM and run a second game. Personally, I've found that this happens organically - as a campaign gets too big, people get bored (due to aforementioned problems) and break off to form their own group, but you may need to instigate it.
You may even find that resolves your problem with this player (either they end up in the other group or their behaviour was a reaction to the problems with having a large group). If they stay in your group, I'd have a chat with them and ask them about why the items keep appearing. Don't accuse - even if they're cheating, you want them to have a way out that allows them to save face - and just explain that it's not how it works. You as DM will tell them when they've gained one. If they want the features of an Artificer, they have to take the levels in Artificer. If it happens again, explain that everyone wants to play on level footing, which is why the rules are there. The rules are the conditions for playing in the group. If it carries on, then there's not much you can do but tell them to leave.
I'd look at reducing the group size first. That could well be the root of the problem.
If you're not willing or able to to discuss in good faith, then don't be surprised if I don't respond, there are better things in life for me to do than humour you. This signature is that response.
10 players!? I'd say get rid of him. I don't know how people can play with more than 4 - 5 players... 10!? Absolute madness.
Enjoy your slop. I'll be enjoying good products elsewhere.
If youve already kicked him, great.
Id also recommend you split the group of 9 into 2 groups, one of 5 players and another of 4. Itll make it easier for you to tun, and let everyone shine more. Of course, you guys could all be happy as is, and thats fine.
'The Cleverness of mushrooms always surprises me!' - Ivern Bramblefoot.
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Just a D&D enjoyer, check out my fiverr page if you need any worldbuilding done for ya!
Was going to say this. You don't need 10 players, nor do you need a toxic player.
I wish more people understood this is a shared experience predicated on the necessity to facilitate the entire group having fun.
And waiting your turn while 8-9 other players have their turn makes for "not having fun".
Split the group, if it is a sandbox game let both groups run in the same world. My son ,who plays with the same DM ,in the same world as i do, has good fun giving out to me that he has deal with the prison break or burning building that my group caused. And he somehow managed to let a killer robot loose on the city where i was.
An Artificer at lvl2 knows 4 infusions, but any day he can only use two of them. (There is a magical tinkering feature, but that is more a prestidigitations kind of thing, simple sounds or noises)
Also when you take the „Replicate Magic item“ Infusion, you choose wich specific item when you lvl up.
The DM had issues with an artificer bringing in random wondrous items. He didn't state whether it was infusions or not. You don't automatically assume someone understands what they are writing. An artificer can have 4 infusions at lower levels, so potentially he could have random wondrous items coming into the game if the DM didn't read his class. And yes he multiclass into rogue and still have those wondrous items. The DM didn't list the items or state anything about the artificer using infusions. And then you got a red flag on the DM, putting 10 people in a group, that's not a great idea from a table space, to a communication perspective and to giving everyone time to play.
If I had to guess, it's a novice DM who didn't know the rules dealing with a player with some social issues and he didn't know how to work with him or even know the class he's running. If you put a power gamer in with a novice DM, you will get everything the DM is talking about. I have plenty of rogues players who'd dip into artificer to get the repeating crossbow infusion, its a very common dip. Hell, one of my players at the hobby shop brought his girlfriend into play to specifically get that infusion, she looked a bit bored, but good girlfriends supports her man, so kudos to her.
This looks like a problem both with DM and Player.
That's not what's happening. The key part is here:
He's definitely playing a Rogue, it's not just a mix up of words. He's trying to pinch the features of being an Artificer without being one or dipping into one, which is mentioned earlier in the post:
This specific problem is that he's chosen to be a Rogue but is sneaking in wonderous items and companions(!), when he's a Rogue and doesn't qualify for either without a DM exception (unless they're talking about the retainers and he has a knight background). That's a problem regardless.
The only issue I've seen DM side is the 10-player thing, which is a significant one, but we don't know anything else. There are always two sides to these stories and were rarely told both, but we just don't know muc about the DM side of this beyond the 10 player thing (which I think could well be provoking the behaviour from someone who's getting bored from rarely actually playing.
If you're not willing or able to to discuss in good faith, then don't be surprised if I don't respond, there are better things in life for me to do than humour you. This signature is that response.