1 - Earthly physics are only useful is your game world is Earth.
We already know, for a fact, that FR and other realms are not in this universe. Rules of this universe do not inherently apply there, including physics.
2 - DDB only lets you have a 30 pound pack. DDB also doesn't seem to auto calculate encumbrance, which suggests that the folks who originally built it didn't use it all that much. It does not actually suggest anything about WotC, since they have been focused on other things since before the bought the damn site.
3 - You can homebrew equipment, according to my drop down, though I have never done so. I am likely entirely wrong, but could one not create 60, 90, and 120 pound packs?
4 - Encumbrance is a mechanic that, in my experience, is mostly used as a way to stop PCs from grabbing an entire mountain of gold and just walking off with it. 5e is designed not to give PCs a mountain of gold, so they won't be walking off with it.
5 -- sacks are cheap.
6 - I really seem to like numbered lists for some reason.
7 - I ran out of points but want to have more numbers.
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Only a DM since 1980 (3000+ Sessions) / PhD, MS, MA / Mixed, Bi, Trans, Woman / No longer welcome in the US, apparently
Wyrlde: Adventures in the Seven Cities .-=] Lore Book | Patreon | Wyrlde YT [=-. An original Setting for 5e, a whole solar system of adventure. Ongoing updates, exclusies, more. Not Talking About It / Dubbed The Oracle in the Cult of Mythology Nerds
DDB also doesn't seem to auto calculate encumbrance, which suggests that the folks who originally built it didn't use it all that much. It does not actually suggest anything about WotC, since they have been focused on other things since before the bought the damn site.
DDB does auto calculate encumbrance. You can even set it to use variant encumbrance.
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Look at what you've done. You spoiled it. You have nobody to blame but yourself. Go sit and think about your actions.
Don't be mean. Rudeness is a vicious cycle, and it has to stop somewhere. Exceptions for things that are funny. Go to the current Competition of the Finest 'Brews! It's a cool place where cool people make cool things.
How I'm posting based on text formatting: Mod Hat Off - Mod Hat Also Off (I'm not a mod)
You do realize that IRL full pack is not used everywhere, too, right? If you are stopping anywhere any length of time, you don't have a full pack since your bedroll, tents, etc are back at basecamp. If you are not somewhere that you have a basecamp, then you definitely need to be carrying more since your camp is on your back while travelling.
And the frame is not that heavy. Lower str characters do not need to fill it completely.
Your players leave stuff behind? I've had players look at me funny when I suggested their character might not want to take their backpack and tent and weapons into an audience with a noble.
The XGTE gives distances that a object/creature that will fall and that tracks with Earth's gravity. So yes, the laws of gravity and Newtonian mechanics do apply to D&D, when it comes to weights and encumbrance.
The XGTE gives distances that a object/creature that will fall and that tracks with Earth's gravity. So yes, the laws of gravity and Newtonian mechanics do apply to D&D, when it comes to weights and encumbrance.
The XGTE gives distances that a object/creature that will fall and that tracks with Earth's gravity. So yes, the laws of gravity and Newtonian mechanics do apply to D&D, when it comes to weights and encumbrance.
Spelljammer would like a word
Spelljammer is in space. And as far as I know, wotc did an awful job with that book describing mechanics. On a planet, the planet is Earth.
The XGTE gives distances that a object/creature that will fall and that tracks with Earth's gravity. So yes, the laws of gravity and Newtonian mechanics do apply to D&D, when it comes to weights and encumbrance.
Spelljammer would like a word
Spelljammer is in space. And as far as I know, wotc did an awful job with that book describing mechanics.
They describe how gravity works just fine. And it is in no way the laws of gravity or newtonian mechanics.
On a planet, the planet is Earth.
[citation needed]
Indeed, all the official worlds are connected by spelljammer. Therefore, if the laws of physics (such as they are) are consistent (not a guarantee), then gravity works as described in SJ, because it's the only place they describe how it works.
And then there's the outer planes. And [fill in weird part of the setting here]. Etc.
There are better arguments you could've tried than the one you did, but all such arguments have to contend with the fundamental one:
In D&D, the rules are the laws of physics, and the rules in every single edition of D&D make no imposition on a character's maneuverability for carrying stuff in a backpack, save for the weight limits.
Is it unrealistic? Hell yes. Go not unto D&D for realism.
As a relatively new DM, I have never enforced carry weights :/ They just seem like an unfun way to play. Not to mention, most of my players forget half the things they have in their inventory anyway, so my head cannon is that those items are lost to the quantum void. Schrodinger's pack. It only exists when it is being observed or remembered :D.
We know, for a fact, that Aber-Toril is not in the same universe as Earth.
Ergo, the rules of Earth do not apply there. Not physics, not chemistry, not economics, not biology, not sociology, astrophysics, astronautics, engineering, and so forth.
It may be similar to, and it may have areas where it is almost like that, but ultimately, it is not Earth's. The absolute best one can say and be truthful and honest is that it is Earth-like, but that is a vague and imprecise way of stating it.
To use an Earthly basis, you have homebrew it, and, therefore, it is not RAW nor RAI.
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Only a DM since 1980 (3000+ Sessions) / PhD, MS, MA / Mixed, Bi, Trans, Woman / No longer welcome in the US, apparently
Wyrlde: Adventures in the Seven Cities .-=] Lore Book | Patreon | Wyrlde YT [=-. An original Setting for 5e, a whole solar system of adventure. Ongoing updates, exclusies, more. Not Talking About It / Dubbed The Oracle in the Cult of Mythology Nerds
I have always used weight and encumbrance rules. It has never slowed down my game play even when it was all pencil and paper.
We would just go through the loot and take the small expensive transportable stuff. Leave the art and copper behind. That is just part of the game.
We would also go through our characters out of actual play time and figure out everything so we didn't have to do it during game time. We figured out our total encumbrance we were carrying and the extra amount we could find and carry.
Now that it is ALL digital its easy.
Ignoring it now is just a way to carry ALL the loot around with them all the time. Play as you will but I find ignoring one of the few close to realistic rules takes away from every game.
As a DM, it's been over 14 years since I worried about carry weight in any shape or fashion. You are the final say as to what rules are used, and how things work in a world, I generally skip over any micro management type rules as they quickly become an interference between fun and gameplay. I only concerned about weight when the narration of the story requires it, and I usually make a Bag of Holding available to a party by level 3. (my current party has a funny RP were they fear their bag of holding, as DM I know it's safe, but I'm not going to say a word about that because the player made drama around it is so much fun.)
DON’T take this advice, Heydanseegil. By not tracking weight, you are giving strength based characters a gigantic nerf. One of the major selling points of a strength based character is they can carry more, and are thus able to mule gear for the party and lug more treasure out of the dungeon. Item weight is part of the game. Tracking it is part of the game. Rations, arrows, consumable items of any kind and the tracking of them is part of the game. Part of the fun.
DON'T tell others how to play or have fun with this game, for you and some others a fully micromanaged game, with traps every 5 feet, and more Mimics than loot, is a fun way to play. Me... I've been playing this game since High School in the 80s. I remember when a level 20 wizard could get one shot insta killed by a goblin. I remember when the game was so full of micro managed rules half the party could be in tears at the end of a 5 hour session. Been there done that, don't want to play like that again. I run a ship of fools wanting power and glory without the constant sense of dread.
You do you, and hopefully your players like that kind of game. Me I want everyone to have fun, each player should feel special but also it's the story that matters on my table not the nitpicky rules.
A bit later in the tread someone says playing a high strength play is why you should nit pick weight management. I disagree. If that is your reason for being, you've already failed at playing a strength character.
Advise I give my players at the start of a campaign. "Do not pay attention to what the others are making, who do you want to be in a Fantasy World with Swords and Magic. Do you want to be Indiana Jones, a Swash Buckling Pirate, A Spy, Cohen the Barbarian (Terry Pratchett reference), Shepard from Mass Effect, or you Isekai'd to Toril? All is possible in D&D."
For my table character and story first. I also encourage Min Max stats, and show people how to RP out the those stats. (In 5th ed min max is better for RP as you'll end up with a 8 in a useful stat every time.) If the item is heavy and only the Barbarian can lift it, that is for the story not the rules. But the Barbarian isn't there to be party mule.
Introduction
It’s good to be the Dungeon Master! Not only do you get to tell fantastic stories about heroes, villains, monsters, and magic, but you also get to create the world in which these stories live.
...
The Dungeon Master
The Dungeon Master (DM) is the creative force behind a D&D game.
...
The D&D rules help you and the other players have a good time, but the rules aren’t in charge. You’re the DM, and you are in charge of the game. That said, your goal isn’t to slaughter the adventurers but to create a campaign world that revolves around their actions and decisions, and to keep your players coming back for more! If you’re lucky, the events of your campaign will echo in the memories of your players long after the final game session is concluded.
I generally skip over any micro management type rules as they quickly become an interference between fun and gameplay.
DON’T take this advice, Heydanseegil.
DON'T tell others how to play or have fun with this game, for you and some others a fully micromanaged game, with traps every 5 feet, and more Mimics than loot, is a fun way to play.
Odd words you're putting in SireSamuel's mouth there. Mimics? Traps every 5 feet? You brought that in yourself. What are you actually arguing against here? Cuz it's not anything that's been said in this thread.
You do you, and hopefully your players like that kind of game. Me I want everyone to have fun
Very cool, yeah. Unlike "some people," you actually value fun.
If that is your reason for being, you've already failed at playing a strength character.
Wait, who's telling whom how to play?
If the item is heavy and only the Barbarian can lift it, that is for the story not the rules. But the Barbarian isn't there to be party mule.
If the loot is well concealed and only the Rogue can find it, that is for the story not the rules. But the Rogue isn't there to be party metal detector.
If the mob is angry and only the Bard can talk them down, that is for the story not the rules. If the lord is deathly ill and only the Paladin can cure him, that is for the story not the rules. If the city has fallen into the sea and only the Cleric can cast Water Breathing... Wait a second. What are the rules for, again? Just for combat, or what?
Furthermore, you know what's way more micromanaging than carrying rules? Spell slots! And spell preparation! And hit points!!
This next part's a non sequitur, but I can't just not say anything:
The Dungeon Master (DM) is the creative force behind a D&D game.
My experience with 5E's carry capacity rules is that unless you wear heavy armor without putting points into strength, you feel the need for a different polearm for ever day of the week, or you insist on hauling more junk around than a Kendermore garage sale, you're not actually likely to have any issues with your carrying capacity.
And if you want a modern camping pack, well, how much aluminum have you got?
Burlap pack on a wooden frame is not new technology and does not require aluminum. The main advantage aluminum frame packs have over wood and burlap is that they are much cheaper to mass produce with modern technology.
Said someone who was never in the USMC. As a USMC 0321, 0331 veteran (1989~1992) Service connected Disability discharge.
I can assure you the differences between a Modern Military pack, Modern Civilian Pack, and a Burlap Sack with wood is night and day. I could carry 50lbs of gear, and a 50lb Tripod 33 miles at a light jog when I was in the Marines, in fact that was part of the final test in the School of Infantry in 1990. (Trust me, it was painful and when done I took a hot hot shower for like an hour.)
Back on topic, the general thing taught is 20% of your body weight. Newer studies adjust that somewhat, but that's everything including the backpack and stuff packed on the outside.
Really?
That means I should be able to carry 18 kilos or ~36 pounds. As stated above, I've carried twice that much, and would be expected to carry up to 50 kilos or ~100 pounds in an actual combat scenario (I want to point out that Denmark has a constript army, and I was never a professional soldier - just a conscripted grunt for 9 months).
Now, in actual real life, soldiers don't tend to march any real distance carrying 50 kilos on their backs - unless they're deep infiltration units. The majority of infantry gear is carried on their APC or whatever. But then on the other hand, back in the 90's soldiers (in Denmark) did not have body armor.
I wasn't infantry, I was artillery. We still trained to carry up to 100 pounds of gear - and it could get worse than that. In case we abandoned our howitzer, we'd be lugging around our supplies and gear, as well as our squad weapons, a.50 cal., an LMG, ammo for said weapons, our own rifles. Of course, this is worse than an infantry platoon only in the fact that we had a Browning M2 HMG. That's still 100+ kilos, in addition to ammo.
And we were expected to be able to march 30-35 kilometers each day, carrying such a load. Not, mind you, in terrain. But on road.
Maybe I should add that we really weren't. We did, twice, march 30+ km with full gear. It was torture, especially for the ... less physical guys. Anyways, point being that the actual limit for real world non-hero style guys seems to be quite a bit more than 20% of body weight.
Well US Marines which might be outside the norm, are required to do that and more, even if when we get deployed it's by vehicle, we are trained to do it on foot with a pack. My favorite training even was in 29 palms during the Summer, we had a 10 mile hump with full combat packs, then we spent 3 days doing drills with tanks. Fun M1Abrams booming and driving while we were digging and firing blanks. (I hate blanks, esp in 110f desert enrolments) The nightly cleaning was a pain, as we had to use black out lights.
Back on topic, the general thing taught is 20% of your body weight. Newer studies adjust that somewhat, but that's everything including the backpack and stuff packed on the outside.
Really?
That means I should be able to carry 18 kilos or ~36 pounds. As stated above, I've carried twice that much, and would be expected to carry up to 50 kilos or ~100 pounds in an actual combat scenario (I want to point out that Denmark has a constript army, and I was never a professional soldier - just a conscripted grunt for 9 months).
Now, in actual real life, soldiers don't tend to march any real distance carrying 50 kilos on their backs - unless they're deep infiltration units. The majority of infantry gear is carried on their APC or whatever. But then on the other hand, back in the 90's soldiers (in Denmark) did not have body armor.
I wasn't infantry, I was artillery. We still trained to carry up to 100 pounds of gear - and it could get worse than that. In case we abandoned our howitzer, we'd be lugging around our supplies and gear, as well as our squad weapons, a.50 cal., an LMG, ammo for said weapons, our own rifles. Of course, this is worse than an infantry platoon only in the fact that we had a Browning M2 HMG. That's still 100+ kilos, in addition to ammo.
And we were expected to be able to march 30-35 kilometers each day, carrying such a load. Not, mind you, in terrain. But on road.
Maybe I should add that we really weren't. We did, twice, march 30+ km with full gear. It was torture, especially for the ... less physical guys. Anyways, point being that the actual limit for real world non-hero style guys seems to be quite a bit more than 20% of body weight.
Bear in mind:
Adventurers would consider 30km a "well, that's just what you do every single day" thing. A day you don't manage that is a lazy day. You did it twice, so presumably not every day.
You probably had the expectation of being able to get rid of the load at the end of it. You reach friendly lines, you get a vehicle. Something. People back then would consider any weight to be permanent. My seventy year old father could carry 100lbs. For a day. He couldn't do it permanently.
Your technology is substantially better than theirs. How the backpack fits, the shoes and so forth. They wouldn't be backwards idiots...but that progress in technology doesn't count for nothing.
That 20% varies depending on build. It's for a modern, healthy civilian. Adventurers would be able to go higher, having better muscle-to-fat ratio. I wouldn't go for 50% though.
I'd probably lean more for something like 30%. For 180lb, that would mean about 60lb.
Again, you are arguing that one can carry more in the real world than one should be able to in a heroic fantasy setting. Note the word 'heroic.'
Furthermore, why would any soldier expect a convenient shelter wherever they end up at the end of the day? They are training for actual war, not for a pleasant planned vacation.
And one more time, we are talking pack capacity. This is a completely separate thing from carrying capacity, the rules of which are completely unaffected by how that weight is actually carried.
And as for technology, it is only that it is a magical world holding any of that back. Even with modern medicine, the average human lifespan is still only about 80 years. In campaign, 100, with some non-human races living hundreds or even thousands of years. Things like "how to make clothing or gear that is more ergonomic" are not among the list of areas where technology is normally considered held back by genre. To the contrary, consider the outfits many seem to fight in and the fact there is no official in game penalty even for sleeping in full armor (at least not that I know of, someone please correct me if I am wrong on that) and it would seem that gear is far more ergonomic than IRL.
Ironically convenient shelter is something we Marines did have, it was a thick piece of canvases which could be made into a tent, or used to set gear on. It didn't seem like much, but it worked well, and working well is what you want.
1 - Earthly physics are only useful is your game world is Earth.
We already know, for a fact, that FR and other realms are not in this universe. Rules of this universe do not inherently apply there, including physics.
2 - DDB only lets you have a 30 pound pack. DDB also doesn't seem to auto calculate encumbrance, which suggests that the folks who originally built it didn't use it all that much. It does not actually suggest anything about WotC, since they have been focused on other things since before the bought the damn site.
3 - You can homebrew equipment, according to my drop down, though I have never done so. I am likely entirely wrong, but could one not create 60, 90, and 120 pound packs?
4 - Encumbrance is a mechanic that, in my experience, is mostly used as a way to stop PCs from grabbing an entire mountain of gold and just walking off with it. 5e is designed not to give PCs a mountain of gold, so they won't be walking off with it.
5 -- sacks are cheap.
6 - I really seem to like numbered lists for some reason.
7 - I ran out of points but want to have more numbers.
Pinches forehead, did you know Earth our Earth well a version of it set in the Modern Age is a Part of the D&D Setting, and has always been a Part of the setting, in fact "Forgotten Realms" get's it's name from the interaction between the Fictional version of our Earth and Toril (The world in which the region known as Faerûn is found) It's just a 1st & 2nd ed plane shift away. Elminster actually likes vacationing on Earth for the food and Puppies and Kittens.
The XGTE gives distances that a object/creature that will fall and that tracks with Earth's gravity. So yes, the laws of gravity and Newtonian mechanics do apply to D&D, when it comes to weights and encumbrance.
Spelljammer would like a word
Spelljammer is in space. And as far as I know, wotc did an awful job with that book describing mechanics. On a planet, the planet is Earth.
Yes & no. The new printing was bad, and missed a ton of relevant things.
In the Prime Material plane where all world like Toril, Greyyhawk, ... and others are. However not all worlds can be reached in the Known Prime Material Plane. Earth is in another version of the Material Plane, with somewhat differing physics, Eberon, the World where Orcs come from, the World where Dragonborn come from, Dragonlance, and others also have their own versions of the Material plane which is not the same as the Prime Material Plane. It's all a big ol ball of tiny wimey wibbly wobbly stuff really.
BTW Darksun's Athas may or may not be in the Prime Material plane. However Our Earth shares the same location in other planes as Toril and the Dragon/Elemental world in the vast Multiplanes of reality.
We know, for a fact, that Aber-Toril is not in the same universe as Earth.
Ergo, the rules of Earth do not apply there. Not physics, not chemistry, not economics, not biology, not sociology, astrophysics, astronautics, engineering, and so forth.
It may be similar to, and it may have areas where it is almost like that, but ultimately, it is not Earth's. The absolute best one can say and be truthful and honest is that it is Earth-like, but that is a vague and imprecise way of stating it.
To use an Earthly basis, you have homebrew it, and, therefore, it is not RAW nor RAI.
Yes.. and No.
Earth is in the same Universe, but in another plane of existence. It's nit picky but the use of universe to relate to a plane is incorrect in D&D, as every world and plane that follows the D&D rule set as sold by WotC is apart of the same universe, just they are on other planes of existence. It's a mess of complicated badly written lore spanning over 50 years, since Forgotten Realms predates D&D.
The Earth is one such world in the Setting, on a differing plane but can be reached if you know how. If your characters happen to land on Earth for any reason at all, the game rules still apply. This includes how Spelljammer works. This is because there is a disconnect between the game rules and the setting lore. The rules are always separate from the lore in D&D , and they have to be. Because in these last 50 years more than once D&D has published rules set in our modern Earth, or During WW2 with Indiana Jones, or post Nuclear War North America. (One of the worst setting books)
The rules are setting agnostic, which is why they are universal to all settings.
The rules are absolutely not setting agnostic. They are about as setting agnostic as they can afford to be, while still being rules for a magical fantasy game. But that doesn't make them setting agnostic.
Here's a thought for all the armed forces veterans in the thread. Soldier's one background option out of many in D&D 5e.
Odd words you're putting in SireSamuel's mouth there. Mimics? Traps every 5 feet? You brought that in yourself. What are you actually arguing against here? Cuz it's not anything that's been said in this thread.
Mimics: It's just a 40+ year experience thing when the DM is a rules stickler for things like Encumbrance, if your rogue isn't checking for traps, and checking all the chests for mimics than the one you didn't check will be a trap or a mimic. These games are like playing Soul Games, some people love that gameplay, others not so much.
"Wait, who's telling whom how to play?"
Well aren't we being a bit captious, boiling down a class to just one job kills the narrative. Anyone can find a trap, try and lift an item, unlock a door, raise the dead... (Well maybe not the last one hopefully 0.o )
My example is the Barbarian with 18+ str might be the only one who can dead lift an object, but their role in the party is not mule. Unless that is the RP the player wants. Your class doesn't dictate how you play, and if a DM assumes that a persons class means they have to play a certain way, then they are sapping the fun from the game. Sure your players may enjoy it, hells 1st edition was all about you were your class first and foremost, 5th edition has moved away from that thinking, for the better IMO. I actually have ... and it's because of memes ... The Buff Wizard character, he's a gym bro himbo Wizard/Wild Magic Barbarian. Played mostly for the lols, but it's actually an amazing build. Outside combat he's lifting and doing rituals, in combat he uses Bigflex Body Builders Quarter Staff of Working out +3
The rules are absolutely not setting agnostic. They are about as setting agnostic as they can afford to be, while still being rules for a magical fantasy game. But that doesn't make them setting agnostic.
Here's a thought for all the armed forces veterans in the thread. Soldier's one background option out of many in D&D 5e.
Setting Agnostic "Setting is separate from the Rules"
The 5th edition rules can be used for many differing settings, esp with the OGL, SRD, and Creative Commons. 5th edition rules can be used for settings that include High Fantasy, Low Magic Fantasy, Steam Punk, Mixed Settings, Sci-FI Settings, Sword & Planet, Super Hero Settings, Modern Settings.
WotC official Published Settings include: (only doing 5th ed, as past editions had WW2, Post Apocalyptic, Modern, Star Wars, and others.)
Forgotten Realms (Mixed High Fantasy with some Steam and Sci-Fi elements)
Spelljammer: Sword & Planet
Eberron: Steampunk
Planescape: Sci-fi (specifically 'Sword & Planet' and 'Speculative Fiction')
As a once avid backpacker (15-20 years ago) in the PNW, a 30 pound pack food water and all is a pretty light pack for most budgets and will generally only have enough food for 3-5 days without foraging/hunting. I have hiked on Mt Hood for 10+ days with a 120 liter pack that weighed 90+ pounds several times in all 4 seasons and weather from heavy snow storms to pouring rain and just about everything in between. I have done numerous 3-5 day hikes with 15-30 liter packs that weighed 18-25 pounds in many environments and weather conditions.
The lighter your kit for a given hike is always going to cost so much more than a heavier kit. Think titanium, carbon fiber everything, Dyneema fabric shelter materials, down bedding, the pack it's self... All of the non metal gear also has a limited lifespan too, so it needs repair in the field, and replacement far more often than heavier gear. Most of it is cottage industry stuff only made in small batches for a short time. I still have a tarp shelter for winter camping in the mountains I paid over $800 for
I will say this about gear and being 20-30 miles in the back country for days, weeks, or months you do not want gear you can not count on. These trips and treks are not on groomed trails, sometimes there are no trails, cell service or radio coms. Satellite coms and even then you may not get your message out in some places.
There are many many forums you can peruse at your leisure to find information about any kind of wilderness trekking you can imagine if this topic is important to you for your game. I will say a little education would go a long way in this thread as far as what average outdoorsy people will and won't find acceptable when it comes to extended hikes.
That said in my opinion a 30 pound pack for D&D is a little on the light side to me but doable, as is a 100 pound pack but 50-60 pounds is probably more realistic.
As far as combat and packs there are many quick drop packs for these situations too we used some of the lighter ones hunting so you could drop it on the move to stalk or climb to a better vantage point... I would say the better ones would be a free action, the lesser ones a bonus action to drop.
D&D makes for some great fun when you stop and rest for a day or so in a beautiful camp in the wilderness, though the books were rarely if ever brought along.
As it was said back then among hammock campers HYOH (hang your own hammock).
I remember reading about an American trapper in the late 1600's who walked over 80 miles with 100 pounds of furs on his back inside of 4 days. He made three trips to the trading post in 2 weeks. And carried his purchased goods back each time. 80 miles each way. Alone. Through the Ohio Valley.
Its documented he did that same thing for several years until the trading post moved closer to him. Then he moved further away and at that point the closest post was on the Mississippi river.
I think all he carried for the trip was 4 days of hard tack, a tarp, a large knife. and the cloths on his back.
We know, for a fact, that Aber-Toril is not in the same universe as Earth.
Ergo, the rules of Earth do not apply there. Not physics, not chemistry, not economics, not biology, not sociology, astrophysics, astronautics, engineering, and so forth.
It may be similar to, and it may have areas where it is almost like that, but ultimately, it is not Earth's. The absolute best one can say and be truthful and honest is that it is Earth-like, but that is a vague and imprecise way of stating it.
To use an Earthly basis, you have homebrew it, and, therefore, it is not RAW nor RAI.
Yes.. and No.
Earth is in the same Universe, but in another plane of existence. It's nit picky but the use of universe to relate to a plane is incorrect in D&D, as every world and plane that follows the D&D rule set as sold by WotC is apart of the same universe, just they are on other planes of existence. It's a mess of complicated badly written lore spanning over 50 years, since Forgotten Realms predates D&D.
The Earth is one such world in the Setting, on a differing plane but can be reached if you know how. If your characters happen to land on Earth for any reason at all, the game rules still apply. This includes how Spelljammer works. This is because there is a disconnect between the game rules and the setting lore. The rules are always separate from the lore in D&D , and they have to be. Because in these last 50 years more than once D&D has published rules set in our modern Earth, or During WW2 with Indiana Jones, or post Nuclear War North America. (One of the worst setting books)
The rules are setting agnostic, which is why they are universal to all settings.
Corrections:
An Earth is in the Multiverse of the game, and it is explicitly not this Earth, in which you and I dwell. It is a fictional Earth (alternate history, specifically), and it is not in the same Prime Material Plane. Additionally, the laws of physics on that Earth do not, in fact, behave as they do here, because that Earth is still represented by the same game rules
That is not how Spelljammer works.
There are no official D&D settings for modern Earth, WW2, or Post-Apocalypse. There are worlds that have been produced by TSR and Wizards that have those as a nature, but they are not D&D worlds, and never have been. I have been playing this game for 45 years, I am a world builder who has collected all but six of the official published D&D worlds, and there's nonesuch.
D&D worlds are still pretty numerous, however: Blackmoor, Greyhawk, Mystara (+Hollow World, +Savage Coast), Ravenloft (+Masque), Kara-Tur (+Mahasarpa), Pelinore, Krynn, Dark Sun, Al-Qadim, Eberron, Nentir Vale, The Endless Waste, Maztica, Manifest (Ghostwalk), Jakandor, Ravnica, Theros, Strixhaven, Thunder Rift, Forgotten Realms, Planescape (+Sigil), Aebrynis, Io's Blood Isles, and the questionably included or licensed {Rokugan}, {Kalamar}, {Warcraft}, {Lankhmar}, {Conan}, {Red Sonja}, and the 1977 {Wilderlands of High Fantasy} that ended up subsuming the old City-State.
Even the very first world setting TSR published was not a D&D world.
So, again...
To use an Earthly basis, you have homebrew it, and, therefore, it is not RAW nor RAI.
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Only a DM since 1980 (3000+ Sessions) / PhD, MS, MA / Mixed, Bi, Trans, Woman / No longer welcome in the US, apparently
Wyrlde: Adventures in the Seven Cities .-=] Lore Book | Patreon | Wyrlde YT [=-. An original Setting for 5e, a whole solar system of adventure. Ongoing updates, exclusies, more. Not Talking About It / Dubbed The Oracle in the Cult of Mythology Nerds
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So, a couple points:
1 - Earthly physics are only useful is your game world is Earth.
We already know, for a fact, that FR and other realms are not in this universe. Rules of this universe do not inherently apply there, including physics.
2 - DDB only lets you have a 30 pound pack. DDB also doesn't seem to auto calculate encumbrance, which suggests that the folks who originally built it didn't use it all that much. It does not actually suggest anything about WotC, since they have been focused on other things since before the bought the damn site.
3 - You can homebrew equipment, according to my drop down, though I have never done so. I am likely entirely wrong, but could one not create 60, 90, and 120 pound packs?
4 - Encumbrance is a mechanic that, in my experience, is mostly used as a way to stop PCs from grabbing an entire mountain of gold and just walking off with it. 5e is designed not to give PCs a mountain of gold, so they won't be walking off with it.
5 -- sacks are cheap.
6 - I really seem to like numbered lists for some reason.
7 - I ran out of points but want to have more numbers.
Only a DM since 1980 (3000+ Sessions) / PhD, MS, MA / Mixed, Bi, Trans, Woman / No longer welcome in the US, apparently
Wyrlde: Adventures in the Seven Cities
.-=] Lore Book | Patreon | Wyrlde YT [=-.
An original Setting for 5e, a whole solar system of adventure. Ongoing updates, exclusies, more.
Not Talking About It / Dubbed The Oracle in the Cult of Mythology Nerds
DDB does auto calculate encumbrance. You can even set it to use variant encumbrance.
Look at what you've done. You spoiled it. You have nobody to blame but yourself. Go sit and think about your actions.
Don't be mean. Rudeness is a vicious cycle, and it has to stop somewhere. Exceptions for things that are funny.
Go to the current Competition of the Finest 'Brews! It's a cool place where cool people make cool things.
How I'm posting based on text formatting: Mod Hat Off - Mod Hat Also Off (I'm not a mod)
Your players leave stuff behind? I've had players look at me funny when I suggested their character might not want to take their backpack and tent and weapons into an audience with a noble.
The XGTE gives distances that a object/creature that will fall and that tracks with Earth's gravity. So yes, the laws of gravity and Newtonian mechanics do apply to D&D, when it comes to weights and encumbrance.
Spelljammer would like a word
Spelljammer is in space. And as far as I know, wotc did an awful job with that book describing mechanics. On a planet, the planet is Earth.
They describe how gravity works just fine. And it is in no way the laws of gravity or newtonian mechanics.
[citation needed]
Indeed, all the official worlds are connected by spelljammer. Therefore, if the laws of physics (such as they are) are consistent (not a guarantee), then gravity works as described in SJ, because it's the only place they describe how it works.
And then there's the outer planes. And [fill in weird part of the setting here]. Etc.
There are better arguments you could've tried than the one you did, but all such arguments have to contend with the fundamental one:
In D&D, the rules are the laws of physics, and the rules in every single edition of D&D make no imposition on a character's maneuverability for carrying stuff in a backpack, save for the weight limits.
Is it unrealistic? Hell yes. Go not unto D&D for realism.
As a relatively new DM, I have never enforced carry weights :/ They just seem like an unfun way to play. Not to mention, most of my players forget half the things they have in their inventory anyway, so my head cannon is that those items are lost to the quantum void. Schrodinger's pack. It only exists when it is being observed or remembered :D.
I shall repeat:
We know, for a fact, that Aber-Toril is not in the same universe as Earth.
Ergo, the rules of Earth do not apply there. Not physics, not chemistry, not economics, not biology, not sociology, astrophysics, astronautics, engineering, and so forth.
It may be similar to, and it may have areas where it is almost like that, but ultimately, it is not Earth's. The absolute best one can say and be truthful and honest is that it is Earth-like, but that is a vague and imprecise way of stating it.
To use an Earthly basis, you have homebrew it, and, therefore, it is not RAW nor RAI.
Only a DM since 1980 (3000+ Sessions) / PhD, MS, MA / Mixed, Bi, Trans, Woman / No longer welcome in the US, apparently
Wyrlde: Adventures in the Seven Cities
.-=] Lore Book | Patreon | Wyrlde YT [=-.
An original Setting for 5e, a whole solar system of adventure. Ongoing updates, exclusies, more.
Not Talking About It / Dubbed The Oracle in the Cult of Mythology Nerds
I have always used weight and encumbrance rules.
It has never slowed down my game play even when it was all pencil and paper.
We would just go through the loot and take the small expensive transportable stuff. Leave the art and copper behind. That is just part of the game.
We would also go through our characters out of actual play time and figure out everything so we didn't have to do it during game time. We figured out our total encumbrance we were carrying and the extra amount we could find and carry.
Now that it is ALL digital its easy.
Ignoring it now is just a way to carry ALL the loot around with them all the time. Play as you will but I find ignoring one of the few close to realistic rules takes away from every game.
DON'T tell others how to play or have fun with this game, for you and some others a fully micromanaged game, with traps every 5 feet, and more Mimics than loot, is a fun way to play. Me... I've been playing this game since High School in the 80s. I remember when a level 20 wizard could get one shot insta killed by a goblin. I remember when the game was so full of micro managed rules half the party could be in tears at the end of a 5 hour session. Been there done that, don't want to play like that again. I run a ship of fools wanting power and glory without the constant sense of dread.
You do you, and hopefully your players like that kind of game. Me I want everyone to have fun, each player should feel special but also it's the story that matters on my table not the nitpicky rules.
A bit later in the tread someone says playing a high strength play is why you should nit pick weight management. I disagree. If that is your reason for being, you've already failed at playing a strength character.
Advise I give my players at the start of a campaign. "Do not pay attention to what the others are making, who do you want to be in a Fantasy World with Swords and Magic. Do you want to be Indiana Jones, a Swash Buckling Pirate, A Spy, Cohen the Barbarian (Terry Pratchett reference), Shepard from Mass Effect, or you Isekai'd to Toril? All is possible in D&D."
For my table character and story first. I also encourage Min Max stats, and show people how to RP out the those stats. (In 5th ed min max is better for RP as you'll end up with a 8 in a useful stat every time.) If the item is heavy and only the Barbarian can lift it, that is for the story not the rules. But the Barbarian isn't there to be party mule.
Odd words you're putting in SireSamuel's mouth there. Mimics? Traps every 5 feet? You brought that in yourself. What are you actually arguing against here? Cuz it's not anything that's been said in this thread.
Very cool, yeah. Unlike "some people," you actually value fun.
Wait, who's telling whom how to play?
If the loot is well concealed and only the Rogue can find it, that is for the story not the rules. But the Rogue isn't there to be party metal detector.
If the mob is angry and only the Bard can talk them down, that is for the story not the rules. If the lord is deathly ill and only the Paladin can cure him, that is for the story not the rules. If the city has fallen into the sea and only the Cleric can cast Water Breathing... Wait a second. What are the rules for, again? Just for combat, or what?
Furthermore, you know what's way more micromanaging than carrying rules? Spell slots! And spell preparation! And hit points!!
This next part's a non sequitur, but I can't just not say anything:
Gross! Awful! I genuinely hate this advice!
Ok... So looking through the posts, I have comments:
Said someone who was never in the USMC. As a USMC 0321, 0331 veteran (1989~1992) Service connected Disability discharge.
I can assure you the differences between a Modern Military pack, Modern Civilian Pack, and a Burlap Sack with wood is night and day. I could carry 50lbs of gear, and a 50lb Tripod 33 miles at a light jog when I was in the Marines, in fact that was part of the final test in the School of Infantry in 1990. (Trust me, it was painful and when done I took a hot hot shower for like an hour.)
Well US Marines which might be outside the norm, are required to do that and more, even if when we get deployed it's by vehicle, we are trained to do it on foot with a pack. My favorite training even was in 29 palms during the Summer, we had a 10 mile hump with full combat packs, then we spent 3 days doing drills with tanks. Fun M1Abrams booming and driving while we were digging and firing blanks. (I hate blanks, esp in 110f desert enrolments) The nightly cleaning was a pain, as we had to use black out lights.
Ironically convenient shelter is something we Marines did have, it was a thick piece of canvases which could be made into a tent, or used to set gear on. It didn't seem like much, but it worked well, and working well is what you want.
Pinches forehead, did you know Earth our Earth well a version of it set in the Modern Age is a Part of the D&D Setting, and has always been a Part of the setting, in fact "Forgotten Realms" get's it's name from the interaction between the Fictional version of our Earth and Toril (The world in which the region known as Faerûn is found) It's just a 1st & 2nd ed plane shift away. Elminster actually likes vacationing on Earth for the food and Puppies and Kittens.
Yes & no. The new printing was bad, and missed a ton of relevant things.
In the Prime Material plane where all world like Toril, Greyyhawk, ... and others are. However not all worlds can be reached in the Known Prime Material Plane. Earth is in another version of the Material Plane, with somewhat differing physics, Eberon, the World where Orcs come from, the World where Dragonborn come from, Dragonlance, and others also have their own versions of the Material plane which is not the same as the Prime Material Plane. It's all a big ol ball of tiny wimey wibbly wobbly stuff really.
BTW Darksun's Athas may or may not be in the Prime Material plane. However Our Earth shares the same location in other planes as Toril and the Dragon/Elemental world in the vast Multiplanes of reality.
Yes.. and No.
Earth is in the same Universe, but in another plane of existence. It's nit picky but the use of universe to relate to a plane is incorrect in D&D, as every world and plane that follows the D&D rule set as sold by WotC is apart of the same universe, just they are on other planes of existence. It's a mess of complicated badly written lore spanning over 50 years, since Forgotten Realms predates D&D.
The Earth is one such world in the Setting, on a differing plane but can be reached if you know how. If your characters happen to land on Earth for any reason at all, the game rules still apply. This includes how Spelljammer works. This is because there is a disconnect between the game rules and the setting lore. The rules are always separate from the lore in D&D , and they have to be. Because in these last 50 years more than once D&D has published rules set in our modern Earth, or During WW2 with Indiana Jones, or post Nuclear War North America. (One of the worst setting books)
The rules are setting agnostic, which is why they are universal to all settings.
The rules are absolutely not setting agnostic. They are about as setting agnostic as they can afford to be, while still being rules for a magical fantasy game. But that doesn't make them setting agnostic.
Here's a thought for all the armed forces veterans in the thread. Soldier's one background option out of many in D&D 5e.
Mimics: It's just a 40+ year experience thing when the DM is a rules stickler for things like Encumbrance, if your rogue isn't checking for traps, and checking all the chests for mimics than the one you didn't check will be a trap or a mimic. These games are like playing Soul Games, some people love that gameplay, others not so much.
Well aren't we being a bit captious, boiling down a class to just one job kills the narrative. Anyone can find a trap, try and lift an item, unlock a door, raise the dead... (Well maybe not the last one hopefully 0.o )
My example is the Barbarian with 18+ str might be the only one who can dead lift an object, but their role in the party is not mule. Unless that is the RP the player wants. Your class doesn't dictate how you play, and if a DM assumes that a persons class means they have to play a certain way, then they are sapping the fun from the game. Sure your players may enjoy it, hells 1st edition was all about you were your class first and foremost, 5th edition has moved away from that thinking, for the better IMO. I actually have ... and it's because of memes ... The Buff Wizard character, he's a gym bro himbo Wizard/Wild Magic Barbarian. Played mostly for the lols, but it's actually an amazing build. Outside combat he's lifting and doing rituals, in combat he uses Bigflex Body Builders Quarter Staff of Working out +3
Setting Agnostic "Setting is separate from the Rules"
The 5th edition rules can be used for many differing settings, esp with the OGL, SRD, and Creative Commons. 5th edition rules can be used for settings that include High Fantasy, Low Magic Fantasy, Steam Punk, Mixed Settings, Sci-FI Settings, Sword & Planet, Super Hero Settings, Modern Settings.
WotC official Published Settings include: (only doing 5th ed, as past editions had WW2, Post Apocalyptic, Modern, Star Wars, and others.)
As a once avid backpacker (15-20 years ago) in the PNW, a 30 pound pack food water and all is a pretty light pack for most budgets and will generally only have enough food for 3-5 days without foraging/hunting. I have hiked on Mt Hood for 10+ days with a 120 liter pack that weighed 90+ pounds several times in all 4 seasons and weather from heavy snow storms to pouring rain and just about everything in between. I have done numerous 3-5 day hikes with 15-30 liter packs that weighed 18-25 pounds in many environments and weather conditions.
The lighter your kit for a given hike is always going to cost so much more than a heavier kit. Think titanium, carbon fiber everything, Dyneema fabric shelter materials, down bedding, the pack it's self... All of the non metal gear also has a limited lifespan too, so it needs repair in the field, and replacement far more often than heavier gear. Most of it is cottage industry stuff only made in small batches for a short time. I still have a tarp shelter for winter camping in the mountains I paid over $800 for
I will say this about gear and being 20-30 miles in the back country for days, weeks, or months you do not want gear you can not count on. These trips and treks are not on groomed trails, sometimes there are no trails, cell service or radio coms. Satellite coms and even then you may not get your message out in some places.
There are many many forums you can peruse at your leisure to find information about any kind of wilderness trekking you can imagine if this topic is important to you for your game. I will say a little education would go a long way in this thread as far as what average outdoorsy people will and won't find acceptable when it comes to extended hikes.
That said in my opinion a 30 pound pack for D&D is a little on the light side to me but doable, as is a 100 pound pack but 50-60 pounds is probably more realistic.
As far as combat and packs there are many quick drop packs for these situations too we used some of the lighter ones hunting so you could drop it on the move to stalk or climb to a better vantage point... I would say the better ones would be a free action, the lesser ones a bonus action to drop.
D&D makes for some great fun when you stop and rest for a day or so in a beautiful camp in the wilderness, though the books were rarely if ever brought along.
As it was said back then among hammock campers HYOH (hang your own hammock).
CENSORSHIP IS THE TOOL OF COWARDS and WANNA BE TYRANTS.
I remember reading about an American trapper in the late 1600's who walked over 80 miles with 100 pounds of furs on his back inside of 4 days. He made three trips to the trading post in 2 weeks. And carried his purchased goods back each time. 80 miles each way. Alone. Through the Ohio Valley.
Its documented he did that same thing for several years until the trading post moved closer to him. Then he moved further away and at that point the closest post was on the Mississippi river.
I think all he carried for the trip was 4 days of hard tack, a tarp, a large knife. and the cloths on his back.
This guy is inspiration.
Corrections:
An Earth is in the Multiverse of the game, and it is explicitly not this Earth, in which you and I dwell. It is a fictional Earth (alternate history, specifically), and it is not in the same Prime Material Plane. Additionally, the laws of physics on that Earth do not, in fact, behave as they do here, because that Earth is still represented by the same game rules
That is not how Spelljammer works.
There are no official D&D settings for modern Earth, WW2, or Post-Apocalypse. There are worlds that have been produced by TSR and Wizards that have those as a nature, but they are not D&D worlds, and never have been. I have been playing this game for 45 years, I am a world builder who has collected all but six of the official published D&D worlds, and there's nonesuch.
D&D worlds are still pretty numerous, however: Blackmoor, Greyhawk, Mystara (+Hollow World, +Savage Coast), Ravenloft (+Masque), Kara-Tur (+Mahasarpa), Pelinore, Krynn, Dark Sun, Al-Qadim, Eberron, Nentir Vale, The Endless Waste, Maztica, Manifest (Ghostwalk), Jakandor, Ravnica, Theros, Strixhaven, Thunder Rift, Forgotten Realms, Planescape (+Sigil), Aebrynis, Io's Blood Isles, and the questionably included or licensed {Rokugan}, {Kalamar}, {Warcraft}, {Lankhmar}, {Conan}, {Red Sonja}, and the 1977 {Wilderlands of High Fantasy} that ended up subsuming the old City-State.
Even the very first world setting TSR published was not a D&D world.
So, again...
To use an Earthly basis, you have homebrew it, and, therefore, it is not RAW nor RAI.
Only a DM since 1980 (3000+ Sessions) / PhD, MS, MA / Mixed, Bi, Trans, Woman / No longer welcome in the US, apparently
Wyrlde: Adventures in the Seven Cities
.-=] Lore Book | Patreon | Wyrlde YT [=-.
An original Setting for 5e, a whole solar system of adventure. Ongoing updates, exclusies, more.
Not Talking About It / Dubbed The Oracle in the Cult of Mythology Nerds