So I have a question, is their a list of what races can have children with other races and what their outcome would be? i.e A Human and a Orc = Human, Orc or Half-Orc etc.
I've seen something about a breeding chart in 4e, although can't find the source, but was wondering if their was a 5e equivalent.
I know in the Forgotten Realms lore outside of D&D that there were half orcs that were born from an orc and elf parent, such as one that was the child of an orc and a renegade drow. As for some other races there are half human and half demon races like Alu fiends and others. If they would be in 5e though I am pretty sure they would be all considered homebrew.
"Race" in 5th edition includes a very healthy dosage of culture as well as genetics. Nurture and nature together. So, if you have a human father and orc mother, but you're raised as a full orc within an orcish tribe, then you'll be the orc race. The developers have commented that, if you're a human raised in dwarven society, then its more appropriate for you to use the dwarf stat block than it is a human one.
So, if we're going to talk about mixed race, we're going to need to look at what cultural niche is one would fit into here. How would a half-dwarf/half-elf grow and live? That's just as important as who were the egg and sperm donors.
Seems this sort of thing is really changed with almost every edition... and... A lot of stuff isn't elaborated on, and may only be referenced at a later date with a future source book release.
Breeding is weird when talking about fantasy. For instance Half Dragons can come about from mating with a polymorphed dragon but so can draconic ancestry sorcerers. Devils don't reproduce but are made up of evil souls that are damned to the hells, but can still procreate a tiefling. It is my opinion based on this that who can breed with who to produce what should not be definitive. I'd just logic through what you can. So if a werewolf mates with a non werewolf the baby's probably gonna be a werewolf, but a young maiden gets swept away by satyr one full moon? Maybe a human baby is born with tiny horns and magic resistance or maybe just is a wild magic sorcerer.
It has been said the social encounters have the fewest rules by design to enable agency to the drivers of the story e.g. players and DM. So I put forward to you the idea that sex is a social encounter and should be allowed to go where the story takes it.
The question was less about sex and more about the story, I was looking at weaving story that spans generations, and having a list of what races can have kids would help in weaving a more diverse story line. IT was also about the RP aspect, could i play a half-orc that is half-Goliath or Half-Aarakocra. obviously they would not get any stats from the other half of what they are, its just a RP aspect that is different from a half-Human.
In my campaign, I ruled that races that laid eggs (dragonborn, lizardfolk, kobold, etc) could not produce offspring with those who birthed live children (humans, elves, etc) with the exception of Yuan-Ti who are a bit of both. When it comes to fiends and celestials, I play it off that they don't normally reproduce, but can if they want to (thus, tieflings and aasimar).
Decide in your group what is allowable and what's not. It's not so important to world building that there needs to be a definitive answer.
The chart I posted a link to shows which races can have children together. If you are just meaning getting freaky together than any race and do that with any other race.
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A caffeinated nerd who has played TTRPGs or a number of years and is very much a fantasy adventure geek.
The mechanics of D&D are a little obtuse to work with when dealing with mixed races.
I mean, what happens when a half-elf and a half-orc have a kid?
At some point I'd like to take a stab at a homebrew system that moves largely away from race-driven bonuses, and instead focuses on bonuses depending on the culture you were raised in.
Racial feats would still exist, but would open up to all who could inter-breed.
So I have a question, is their a list of what races can have children with other races and what their outcome would be? i.e A Human and a Orc = Human, Orc or Half-Orc etc.
I've seen something about a breeding chart in 4e, although can't find the source, but was wondering if their was a 5e equivalent.
In general, the "easiest" solution is to assume that unless you have published works claiming otherwise, in general most humanoids can mate with most other humanoids, but they breed true - their child is one of the two parents' races, not a new race. New races only occur when you're told they do (human + orc = half-orc, human + elf = half-elf, human + dwarf = mul, human + cambion = tiefling, human + celestial = aasimar). Obvious exceptions include allowing a non-mammal to successfully mate with a mammal (I assume PC races are mammals until I learn a good reason why they shouldn't be; it keeps things simple), you should probably have yuan-ti purebloods have some chance of playing by human rules when mating with a non-yuan-ti (meaning they can produce half-orcs, for example, or breed with a human to possibly produce a human), warforged don't reproduce sexually at all, etc. But regardless, you'll have to decide all this yourself - we have no actual canonical text covering it that I know of.
It's particularly ironic, now that I think of it, now that we're post-Tasha's. Flexible statlines are a very clear attempt at allowing for funky genetics resulting in things like clumsy elves and weak orcs, but we remain bereft of rules for what happens when a dwarf and an elf have a kid, instead of one of the parents being human.
I wish the Thread Title was Genetics instead of Breeding. Breeding has some negative connotations.
I don't understand the basis for thinking that a child of mixed parentage would use the stat block for one side of the family or the other when a canonically accepted stat block is available.
Honest question ... have we decided there is only social and no genetic basis for identity? Is that the current canon?
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Cum catapultae proscriptae erunt tum soli proscript catapultas habebunt
I wish the Thread Title was Genetics instead of Breeding. Breeding has some negative connotations.
I don't understand the basis for thinking that a child of mixed parentage would use the stat block for one side of the family or the other when a canonically accepted stat block is available.
Honest question ... have we decided there is only social and no genetic basis for identity? Is that the current canon?
1) There's nothing wrong with the title unless you're looking for it.
2) As there are aren't defined rules that cross all editions - if even established in the 1st place, there is no such thing as CANON here. DMs are free to make it up. As CWard said best.
Well in this case a lot was left intentionally ambiguous to give more freedom to the DM. Make the story you want.
Attach the word HALF to whatever race sounds best. Genasi + Goliath. Half Genasi or Half Goliath. What sounds best rolling off the tongue? Go with that. Following that sort of pattern would be as sufficient as you need, with (as discussed) any story you come up with to make sense of it all. Half Goliath makes sense to anyone 11yrs old and above (arbitrary age range). It simply means either mom or dad was a Goliath. I don't see the need for nuance or complexity. What nuance and complexity there is is left for the creator (DM) to decide, not something based on what's written in some random book by a random designer.
Honest question ... have we decided there is only social and no genetic basis for identity? Is that the current canon?
Not at all. The issue has been blown way out of proportion. All the races in pre-Tasha's books are primarily based on genetics but also sometimes reflect culture in the form of skill/weapon/armor proficiencies. Applying Tasha's rules to them still makes them genetic, but it allows for variation in the stat and proficiency allocations.
People talk like it's the dex bonus that makes halflings unique instead of Brave or Lucky or Halfling Nimbleness or their subrace features. There is still a lot of genetic heritage in each race even if you fully embrace the options in Tasha's.
Lineages are more of a gene-agnostic template that "replaces" race, but so far none have been published in official material. So right now there is literally no race option you can officially choose that is not a reflection of your genetics.
Best to remember genetically its never half anything. There is massive variation within any population, so its perfectly feasible to have a 4'8" human and a 5' tall halfling. All of the common features that are talked about, the shape of the ears, the colour of the skin, the height, weight or characteristics will all change between individuals. You can have a dragon born who looks completely human, or another who is covered in scales with a tail.
Mephista's comment from back in July of 2018 suggested to me that we should consider environment (social) as the key influence on a character's traits and that genetics has little to do with it (I'm not speaking of physical/cosmetic traits such as the shape of the ears, which have no real meaning in game mechanics). This is why I am asking. Is Mephista's thesis overstating things or have genetics been determined to be irrelevant for defining a character?
"Race" in 5th edition includes a very healthy dosage of culture as well as genetics. Nurture and nature together. So, if you have a human father and orc mother, but you're raised as a full orc within an orcish tribe, then you'll be the orc race. The developers have commented that, if you're a human raised in dwarven society, then its more appropriate for you to use the dwarf stat block than it is a human one.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Cum catapultae proscriptae erunt tum soli proscript catapultas habebunt
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So I have a question, is their a list of what races can have children with other races and what their outcome would be? i.e A Human and a Orc = Human, Orc or Half-Orc etc.
I've seen something about a breeding chart in 4e, although can't find the source, but was wondering if their was a 5e equivalent.
There's no official information on this in 5th edition (that I am aware of).
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I know in the Forgotten Realms lore outside of D&D that there were half orcs that were born from an orc and elf parent, such as one that was the child of an orc and a renegade drow. As for some other races there are half human and half demon races like Alu fiends and others. If they would be in 5e though I am pretty sure they would be all considered homebrew.
"Race" in 5th edition includes a very healthy dosage of culture as well as genetics. Nurture and nature together. So, if you have a human father and orc mother, but you're raised as a full orc within an orcish tribe, then you'll be the orc race. The developers have commented that, if you're a human raised in dwarven society, then its more appropriate for you to use the dwarf stat block than it is a human one.
So, if we're going to talk about mixed race, we're going to need to look at what cultural niche is one would fit into here. How would a half-dwarf/half-elf grow and live? That's just as important as who were the egg and sperm donors.
Seems this sort of thing is really changed with almost every edition... and... A lot of stuff isn't elaborated on, and may only be referenced at a later date with a future source book release.
Breeding is weird when talking about fantasy. For instance Half Dragons can come about from mating with a polymorphed dragon but so can draconic ancestry sorcerers. Devils don't reproduce but are made up of evil souls that are damned to the hells, but can still procreate a tiefling. It is my opinion based on this that who can breed with who to produce what should not be definitive. I'd just logic through what you can. So if a werewolf mates with a non werewolf the baby's probably gonna be a werewolf, but a young maiden gets swept away by satyr one full moon? Maybe a human baby is born with tiny horns and magic resistance or maybe just is a wild magic sorcerer.
It has been said the social encounters have the fewest rules by design to enable agency to the drivers of the story e.g. players and DM. So I put forward to you the idea that sex is a social encounter and should be allowed to go where the story takes it.
The question was less about sex and more about the story, I was looking at weaving story that spans generations, and having a list of what races can have kids would help in weaving a more diverse story line. IT was also about the RP aspect, could i play a half-orc that is half-Goliath or Half-Aarakocra. obviously they would not get any stats from the other half of what they are, its just a RP aspect that is different from a half-Human.
Well in this case a lot was left intentionally ambiguous to give more freedom to the DM. Make the story you want.
You might want to have a look at this chart.
https://1drv.ms/u/s!AitHxmvB7V7omWr9zo_d14c9xQ6h
The above link is shared from my OneDrive and should open in a new window
A caffeinated nerd who has played TTRPGs or a number of years and is very much a fantasy adventure geek.
In my campaign, I ruled that races that laid eggs (dragonborn, lizardfolk, kobold, etc) could not produce offspring with those who birthed live children (humans, elves, etc) with the exception of Yuan-Ti who are a bit of both. When it comes to fiends and celestials, I play it off that they don't normally reproduce, but can if they want to (thus, tieflings and aasimar).
Decide in your group what is allowable and what's not. It's not so important to world building that there needs to be a definitive answer.
The chart I posted a link to shows which races can have children together. If you are just meaning getting freaky together than any race and do that with any other race.
A caffeinated nerd who has played TTRPGs or a number of years and is very much a fantasy adventure geek.
The mechanics of D&D are a little obtuse to work with when dealing with mixed races.
I mean, what happens when a half-elf and a half-orc have a kid?
At some point I'd like to take a stab at a homebrew system that moves largely away from race-driven bonuses, and instead focuses on bonuses depending on the culture you were raised in.
Racial feats would still exist, but would open up to all who could inter-breed.
That was the chart from 4e.
I'm pretty sure that 4e breeding chart is homebrew. It's certainly not from the DMG or DMG2.
This is not a thing that I would expect them to officially cover. You just decide how it works for your world.
My homebrew subclasses (full list here)
(Artificer) Swordmage | Glasswright | (Barbarian) Path of the Savage Embrace
(Bard) College of Dance | (Fighter) Warlord | Cannoneer
(Monk) Way of the Elements | (Ranger) Blade Dancer
(Rogue) DaggerMaster | Inquisitor | (Sorcerer) Riftwalker | Spellfist
(Warlock) The Swarm
In general, the "easiest" solution is to assume that unless you have published works claiming otherwise, in general most humanoids can mate with most other humanoids, but they breed true - their child is one of the two parents' races, not a new race. New races only occur when you're told they do (human + orc = half-orc, human + elf = half-elf, human + dwarf = mul, human + cambion = tiefling, human + celestial = aasimar). Obvious exceptions include allowing a non-mammal to successfully mate with a mammal (I assume PC races are mammals until I learn a good reason why they shouldn't be; it keeps things simple), you should probably have yuan-ti purebloods have some chance of playing by human rules when mating with a non-yuan-ti (meaning they can produce half-orcs, for example, or breed with a human to possibly produce a human), warforged don't reproduce sexually at all, etc. But regardless, you'll have to decide all this yourself - we have no actual canonical text covering it that I know of.
It's particularly ironic, now that I think of it, now that we're post-Tasha's. Flexible statlines are a very clear attempt at allowing for funky genetics resulting in things like clumsy elves and weak orcs, but we remain bereft of rules for what happens when a dwarf and an elf have a kid, instead of one of the parents being human.
I wish the Thread Title was Genetics instead of Breeding. Breeding has some negative connotations.
I don't understand the basis for thinking that a child of mixed parentage would use the stat block for one side of the family or the other when a canonically accepted stat block is available.
Honest question ... have we decided there is only social and no genetic basis for identity? Is that the current canon?
Cum catapultae proscriptae erunt tum soli proscript catapultas habebunt
1) There's nothing wrong with the title unless you're looking for it.
2) As there are aren't defined rules that cross all editions - if even established in the 1st place, there is no such thing as CANON here. DMs are free to make it up. As CWard said best.
Well in this case a lot was left intentionally ambiguous to give more freedom to the DM. Make the story you want.
Attach the word HALF to whatever race sounds best. Genasi + Goliath. Half Genasi or Half Goliath. What sounds best rolling off the tongue? Go with that. Following that sort of pattern would be as sufficient as you need, with (as discussed) any story you come up with to make sense of it all. Half Goliath makes sense to anyone 11yrs old and above (arbitrary age range). It simply means either mom or dad was a Goliath. I don't see the need for nuance or complexity. What nuance and complexity there is is left for the creator (DM) to decide, not something based on what's written in some random book by a random designer.
All things Lich - DM tips, tricks, and other creative shenanigans
Not at all. The issue has been blown way out of proportion. All the races in pre-Tasha's books are primarily based on genetics but also sometimes reflect culture in the form of skill/weapon/armor proficiencies. Applying Tasha's rules to them still makes them genetic, but it allows for variation in the stat and proficiency allocations.
People talk like it's the dex bonus that makes halflings unique instead of Brave or Lucky or Halfling Nimbleness or their subrace features. There is still a lot of genetic heritage in each race even if you fully embrace the options in Tasha's.
Lineages are more of a gene-agnostic template that "replaces" race, but so far none have been published in official material. So right now there is literally no race option you can officially choose that is not a reflection of your genetics.
My homebrew subclasses (full list here)
(Artificer) Swordmage | Glasswright | (Barbarian) Path of the Savage Embrace
(Bard) College of Dance | (Fighter) Warlord | Cannoneer
(Monk) Way of the Elements | (Ranger) Blade Dancer
(Rogue) DaggerMaster | Inquisitor | (Sorcerer) Riftwalker | Spellfist
(Warlock) The Swarm
Best to remember genetically its never half anything. There is massive variation within any population, so its perfectly feasible to have a 4'8" human and a 5' tall halfling. All of the common features that are talked about, the shape of the ears, the colour of the skin, the height, weight or characteristics will all change between individuals. You can have a dragon born who looks completely human, or another who is covered in scales with a tail.
Mephista's comment from back in July of 2018 suggested to me that we should consider environment (social) as the key influence on a character's traits and that genetics has little to do with it (I'm not speaking of physical/cosmetic traits such as the shape of the ears, which have no real meaning in game mechanics). This is why I am asking. Is Mephista's thesis overstating things or have genetics been determined to be irrelevant for defining a character?
"Race" in 5th edition includes a very healthy dosage of culture as well as genetics. Nurture and nature together. So, if you have a human father and orc mother, but you're raised as a full orc within an orcish tribe, then you'll be the orc race. The developers have commented that, if you're a human raised in dwarven society, then its more appropriate for you to use the dwarf stat block than it is a human one.
Cum catapultae proscriptae erunt tum soli proscript catapultas habebunt