How else did you get the questions for the SAC if this is not sourced from the players? I believe players should be able to submit questions, similar to how feedbacks are obtained from playtesting UA stuff.
How else did you get the questions for the SAC if this is not sourced from the players? I believe players should be able to submit questions, similar to how feedbacks are obtained from playtesting UA stuff.
I am not a part of the team that answers these questions, so I have no knowledge of that process!
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Another thing, can you take a fighting style as a normal feat if you have the fighting style feature already?
Yes, that’s what the prerequisite is. Granted, it’s a fairly pointless change since the gains of taking a fighting style if you aren’t a class that gets one is minimal.
Yes, that’s what the prerequisite is. Granted, it’s a fairly pointless change since the gains of taking a fighting style if you aren’t a class that gets one is minimal.
Well, the main problem is that fighting styles, even on classes that would benefit, are not worth a general feat.
Yes, that’s what the prerequisite is. Granted, it’s a fairly pointless change since the gains of taking a fighting style if you aren’t a class that gets one is minimal.
Well, the main problem is that fighting styles, even on classes that would benefit, are not worth a general feat.
There is that too, but regardless the pre-req is fairly pointless on a character level.
Another thing, can you take a fighting style as a normal feat if you have the fighting style feature already?
I would say no only because it would turn a select number of class features into general free for all abilities that would eventually ruin the game. Not everyone wants to play D&D where everyone is creating characters that can single handedly take on an entire kingdom by themselves.
Prerequisites force player growth and expansion, removing prereqs is the best way to kill creative growth as anyone can just create a character that is never challenged to exceed and expand their abilities.
Btw, noticed the Creator FAQ hasn’t been updated yet to reflect SAC(2024) is now available.
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" Darkvision doesn’t work in Magical darkness, and if something is magical, Never Trust it acts the same way as a non-magical version of that same thing!”- Discotech Mage over a cup of joe.
Can Sage Advice please answer the question regarding if "Non-attack" spells that trigger based on attacks can crit. I've had this discussion with a player at my table for nearly 8 months now.
TLDR; Player says Hunter's Mark damage doubles because it is a "damage rider" of an attack and thereby part of the "double an attack damage dice" whereas I claim it's only the weapon dice that should be doubled and then add the spells damage to that as hunter's mark is not an attack.
Example: Does the damage from Hunter's Mark or Hex double if the attack that triggers it rolls D20?
My evidence that it does NOT:
Critical Hits clearly say to only roll the ATTACKS damage dice twice, and add any relevant modifiers as normal
Attacks for spells refer to anything labeled as a melee/ranged spell attack
"An attack roll is a D20 Test that represents making an attack with a weapon, an Unarmed Strike, or a spell. See also “Playing the Game” (“D20 Tests”)."
"A spell attack is an attack roll made as part of a spell or another magical effect. See also “Spells” (“Casting Spells”)."
Also I denoted that for all the attack spells I checked they clearly in some part of the spell description say, "Make a ranged/melee spell attack against the target."
I would consider the additional damage on hit from those spells to be classified as "relevant modifiers as normal"
Spell text says do extra damage when you hit with an attack which would be understood that the damage is not part of the attack otherwise it would say the attack does X extra damage.
Hunter's Mark text "Until the spell ends, you deal an extra 1d6 Force damage to the target whenever you hit it with an attack roll."
Hex "you deal an extra 1d6 Necrotic damage to the target whenever you hit it with an attack roll."
Hex & Hunter's mark have "None" label under "Attack/Save" tag which indicates they are not an attack as they would have "Melee/Ranged" otherwise
Hex & Hunter's mark do not target the weapon, both target a creature, as something such as Shillelagh does which as the point above has the "Melee" attack tag
His evidence that they SHOULD double
They say to do X damage when creature is attacked thereby the damage is a "rider" of the attack and should be doubled.
Jeremy Crawford said that "When you score a critical hit, you get to roll the attack's damage dice an additional time. If the attack involves extra dice—from a feature like Orcish Fury or Sneak Attack—you roll those an additional time too."
This was in reference to Savage Attacks, Orcish Fury, & Sneak Attack which all state
"you can roll one of the weapon's damage dice..."
"extra damage of the weapon's damage type."
"extra 1d6 damage to one creature you hit with an attack if you have advantage on the attack roll."
Clearly there are many more ticks in favor of my ruling but again I'm biased as that is my position. I think they are simply trying to stretch a commonly homebrewed misunderstanding of critical hits which is that any and all damage that is triggered by an attack is doubled when rules as written and imo the rules as interrupted clearly intend that the "attacks" or weapons damage dice is what should be doubled when you use an enchantment spell [Hex] or Divination spell [Hunter's Mark] which are not classified as attacks and strike a target. Yes, they are triggered by a successful attack but the whole "damage rider" explanation as to why they would still be doubled is a disingenuous interpretation of how the game is written to be played.
Xayentist It's generally accepted the spells you listed are included when you land a critical hit. In both 2014 and 2024 rules. The relevant part is in blue. In that rule, the weapon isn't mentioned.
Critical Hit
If you roll a 20 on the d20 for an attack roll, you score a Critical Hit, and the attack hits regardless of any modifiers or the target’s AC. A Critical Hit lets you roll extra dice for the attack’s damage against the target. Roll all of the attack’s damage dice twice and add them together. Then add any relevant modifiers. See also chapter 1 (“Damage and Healing”).
It should be the same with the extra damage from, for example, Smite spells, True Strike (in this case at higher levels) or Divine Favor.
@quadhund If I make 1 attack with a longsword as a part of casting Green Flame Blade, while having the Hex spell affecting the target, and then I use Divine Smite once the attack hits, how many damage rolls are there? @JeremyECrawford When something in the game (Sneak Attack, Divine Smite, hex, etc.) causes your attack/spell/etc. to deal extra dice of damage, those dice are added to the damage the effect is already dealing, if any. It's one big damage roll, extra damage included. @DaveWil33 Would only be a second damage roll if there was something locked behind a save like poison damage, yes? @JeremyECrawford If an attack has a damage roll but also a second damage roll (not extra damage) that is contingent on a saving throw, the damage of that second source is a different damage roll from the first. @RubiksMoose how do you distinguish between second damage roll and extra damage? @JeremyECrawford Separate damage rolls are delivered by separate attack rolls, saving throws, or other processes. Extra/bonus/additional damage is called extra/bonus/additional damage.
What happens on a succesful Saving Throw against Contagion spell? Does the part saying ''Also, choose one ability when you cast the spell. While Poisoned, the target has Disadvantage on saving throws made with the chosen ability.'' apply regardless if the target save.
Xayentist As you said, Sneak Attack is included. It's a direct example in the rules and it has the "extra damage" usual wording found in some spells.
Critical Hits
When you score a Critical Hit, you deal extra damage. Roll the attack’s damage dice twice, add them together, and add any relevant modifiers as normal. For example, if you score a Critical Hit with a Dagger, roll 2d4 for the damage rather than 1d4, and add your relevant ability modifier. If the attack involves other damage dice, such as from the Rogue’s Sneak Attack feature, you also roll those dice twice.
What happens on a succesful Saving Throw against Contagion spell? Does the part saying ''Also, choose one ability when you cast the spell. While Poisoned, the target has Disadvantage on saving throws made with the chosen ability.'' apply regardless if the target save.
There should be an errata that rewrites or removes that particular spell, it’s poorly designed and just doesn’t work well for what the intended effect should be. Best 3 out of 5 and if the failures don’t kill you, what chance do you really have with 7 days?
Should be something close to you “each turn make a saving roll, on three successful saves the spell ends, on three failures the target is Poisoned and takes immediately 11d8 Necrotic damage.
then the 7 day search for cure bit.
The Contagion Spell as it stands is IMHO broken. It would be nice to have sort of clarity about it though.
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" Darkvision doesn’t work in Magical darkness, and if something is magical, Never Trust it acts the same way as a non-magical version of that same thing!”- Discotech Mage over a cup of joe.
What happens on a succesful Saving Throw against Contagion spell? Does the part saying ''Also, choose one ability when you cast the spell. While Poisoned, the target has Disadvantage on saving throws made with the chosen ability.'' apply regardless if the target save.
I would think that if the target makes the save, they do not have the Poisoned condition and therefore, the effect on the Ability would not apply.
Three saving throws before there's any damage is a waste of a 5th level spell.
Not sure what's unclear about it either, all or nothing CON save at the outset, then best of 5 to see if the debuff sticks, with a rider to keep one Lesser Restoration from bypassing the process.
Can Sage Advice please answer the question regarding if "Non-attack" spells that trigger based on attacks can crit. I've had this discussion with a player at my table for nearly 8 months now.
TLDR; Player says Hunter's Mark damage doubles because it is a "damage rider" of an attack and thereby part of the "double an attack damage dice" whereas I claim it's only the weapon dice that should be doubled and then add the spells damage to that as hunter's mark is not an attack.
Example: Does the damage from Hunter's Mark or Hex double if the attack that triggers it rolls D20?
My evidence that it does NOT:
Critical Hits clearly say to only roll the ATTACKS damage dice twice, and add any relevant modifiers as normal
Attacks for spells refer to anything labeled as a melee/ranged spell attack
"An attack roll is a D20 Test that represents making an attack with a weapon, an Unarmed Strike, or a spell. See also “Playing the Game” (“D20 Tests”)."
"A spell attack is an attack roll made as part of a spell or another magical effect. See also “Spells” (“Casting Spells”)."
Also I denoted that for all the attack spells I checked they clearly in some part of the spell description say, "Make a ranged/melee spell attack against the target."
I would consider the additional damage on hit from those spells to be classified as "relevant modifiers as normal"
Spell text says do extra damage when you hit with an attack which would be understood that the damage is not part of the attack otherwise it would say the attack does X extra damage.
Hunter's Mark text "Until the spell ends, you deal an extra 1d6 Force damage to the target whenever you hit it with an attack roll."
Hex "you deal an extra 1d6 Necrotic damage to the target whenever you hit it with an attack roll."
Hex & Hunter's mark have "None" label under "Attack/Save" tag which indicates they are not an attack as they would have "Melee/Ranged" otherwise
Hex & Hunter's mark do not target the weapon, both target a creature, as something such as Shillelagh does which as the point above has the "Melee" attack tag
His evidence that they SHOULD double
They say to do X damage when creature is attacked thereby the damage is a "rider" of the attack and should be doubled.
Jeremy Crawford said that "When you score a critical hit, you get to roll the attack's damage dice an additional time. If the attack involves extra dice—from a feature like Orcish Fury or Sneak Attack—you roll those an additional time too."
This was in reference to Savage Attacks, Orcish Fury, & Sneak Attack which all state
"you can roll one of the weapon's damage dice..."
"extra damage of the weapon's damage type."
"extra 1d6 damage to one creature you hit with an attack if you have advantage on the attack roll."
Clearly there are many more ticks in favor of my ruling but again I'm biased as that is my position. I think they are simply trying to stretch a commonly homebrewed misunderstanding of critical hits which is that any and all damage that is triggered by an attack is doubled when rules as written and imo the rules as interrupted clearly intend that the "attacks" or weapons damage dice is what should be doubled when you use an enchantment spell [Hex] or Divination spell [Hunter's Mark] which are not classified as attacks and strike a target. Yes, they are triggered by a successful attack but the whole "damage rider" explanation as to why they would still be doubled is a disingenuous interpretation of how the game is written to be played.
Hunter’s mark would be the same if the weapon had a proc (rod of lordly might- extra damage) or pugilist potion d6. They are all extra damage dice and get added to crits. In the end you can rule it how you RAI but RAW states extra damage dice (just like a smite)
Just to make sure I'm understanding you are saying they do not double but are added at the end so in the pugilist potion example if my monk die is 1d10 a crit damage would be [2d10 + dex.mod + 1d6 bonus] for the potion as opposed to [2d10 + dex.mod + 2d6 bonus].
Just making sure I understood the point you were trying to make which if I understand is all relevant modifiers are added at the end after the attack dice are doubled. Correct?
Three saving throws before there's any damage is a waste of a 5th level spell.
Not sure what's unclear about it either, all or nothing CON save at the outset, then best of 5 to see if the debuff sticks, with a rider to keep one Lesser Restoration from bypassing the process.
With an average of 48.5dmg per fail, and it becoming available at level 9, where relative HP avg is near say 70hp just on average characters overall, it should for a 5th level spell be just an all or nothing spell and the best of three taken out as it’s overkill if the first save fails and Constitution ability rolls are chosen for disadvantage.
If you fail then save, do you just lose the poison condition and the disadvantage, or does it linger till you save 3 times?
With 11d8 worth of average damage, and a best of three potential grinder mechanic, ether drop the best of three to keep it a level 5, or make it a level 6+ leved spell so enough rounds pass to determine if the spell actually holds.
As it is, at 5th level the damage has to come down to reasonable level or make it a save or stuck effect.
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" Darkvision doesn’t work in Magical darkness, and if something is magical, Never Trust it acts the same way as a non-magical version of that same thing!”- Discotech Mage over a cup of joe.
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How else did you get the questions for the SAC if this is not sourced from the players? I believe players should be able to submit questions, similar to how feedbacks are obtained from playtesting UA stuff.
Is Equiping or Unequiping a weapon as part of the Attack Action 1/action or 1/attack?
I am not a part of the team that answers these questions, so I have no knowledge of that process!
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I shared my wishes in this thread created by Plaguescarred: Errata and Sage Advice: What’s Next for the New Core Rules? - Rules & Game Mechanics
Another thing, can you take a fighting style as a normal feat if you have the fighting style feature already?
Yes, that’s what the prerequisite is. Granted, it’s a fairly pointless change since the gains of taking a fighting style if you aren’t a class that gets one is minimal.
Well, the main problem is that fighting styles, even on classes that would benefit, are not worth a general feat.
There is that too, but regardless the pre-req is fairly pointless on a character level.
Can you take an Epic Boon feat with Ability Score Improvement feat of your choice for which you qualify if your total level is 19+?
I would say no only because it would turn a select number of class features into general free for all abilities that would eventually ruin the game.
Not everyone wants to play D&D where everyone is creating characters that can single handedly take on an entire kingdom by themselves.
Prerequisites force player growth and expansion, removing prereqs is the best way to kill creative growth as anyone can just create a character that is never challenged to exceed and expand their abilities.
Btw, noticed the Creator FAQ hasn’t been updated yet to reflect SAC(2024) is now available.
" Darkvision doesn’t work in Magical darkness, and if something is magical, Never Trust it acts the same way as a non-magical version of that same thing!”- Discotech Mage over a cup of joe.
Can Sage Advice please answer the question regarding if "Non-attack" spells that trigger based on attacks can crit. I've had this discussion with a player at my table for nearly 8 months now.
TLDR; Player says Hunter's Mark damage doubles because it is a "damage rider" of an attack and thereby part of the "double an attack damage dice" whereas I claim it's only the weapon dice that should be doubled and then add the spells damage to that as hunter's mark is not an attack.
Example: Does the damage from Hunter's Mark or Hex double if the attack that triggers it rolls D20?
My evidence that it does NOT:
His evidence that they SHOULD double
Clearly there are many more ticks in favor of my ruling but again I'm biased as that is my position. I think they are simply trying to stretch a commonly homebrewed misunderstanding of critical hits which is that any and all damage that is triggered by an attack is doubled when rules as written and imo the rules as interrupted clearly intend that the "attacks" or weapons damage dice is what should be doubled when you use an enchantment spell [Hex] or Divination spell [Hunter's Mark] which are not classified as attacks and strike a target. Yes, they are triggered by a successful attack but the whole "damage rider" explanation as to why they would still be doubled is a disingenuous interpretation of how the game is written to be played.
Xayentist It's generally accepted the spells you listed are included when you land a critical hit. In both 2014 and 2024 rules. The relevant part is in blue. In that rule, the weapon isn't mentioned.
It should be the same with the extra damage from, for example, Smite spells, True Strike (in this case at higher levels) or Divine Favor.
From the Dev:
What happens on a succesful Saving Throw against Contagion spell? Does the part saying ''Also, choose one ability when you cast the spell. While Poisoned, the target has Disadvantage on saving throws made with the chosen ability.'' apply regardless if the target save.
Xayentist As you said, Sneak Attack is included. It's a direct example in the rules and it has the "extra damage" usual wording found in some spells.
There should be an errata that rewrites or removes that particular spell, it’s poorly designed and just doesn’t work well for what the intended effect should be.
Best 3 out of 5 and if the failures don’t kill you, what chance do you really have with 7 days?
Should be something close to you “each turn make a saving roll, on three successful saves the spell ends, on three failures the target is Poisoned and takes immediately 11d8 Necrotic damage.
then the 7 day search for cure bit.
The Contagion Spell as it stands is IMHO broken. It would be nice to have sort of clarity about it though.
" Darkvision doesn’t work in Magical darkness, and if something is magical, Never Trust it acts the same way as a non-magical version of that same thing!”- Discotech Mage over a cup of joe.
I would think that if the target makes the save, they do not have the Poisoned condition and therefore, the effect on the Ability would not apply.
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Three saving throws before there's any damage is a waste of a 5th level spell.
Not sure what's unclear about it either, all or nothing CON save at the outset, then best of 5 to see if the debuff sticks, with a rider to keep one Lesser Restoration from bypassing the process.
Hunter’s mark would be the same if the weapon had a proc (rod of lordly might- extra damage) or pugilist potion d6. They are all extra damage dice and get added to crits. In the end you can rule it how you RAI but RAW states extra damage dice (just like a smite)
Just to make sure I'm understanding you are saying they do not double but are added at the end so in the pugilist potion example if my monk die is 1d10 a crit damage would be [2d10 + dex.mod + 1d6 bonus] for the potion as opposed to [2d10 + dex.mod + 2d6 bonus].
Just making sure I understood the point you were trying to make which if I understand is all relevant modifiers are added at the end after the attack dice are doubled. Correct?
With an average of 48.5dmg per fail, and it becoming available at level 9, where relative HP avg is near say 70hp just on average characters overall, it should for a 5th level spell be just an all or nothing spell and the best of three taken out as it’s overkill if the first save fails and Constitution ability rolls are chosen for disadvantage.
If you fail then save, do you just lose the poison condition and the disadvantage, or does it linger till you save 3 times?
With 11d8 worth of average damage, and a best of three potential grinder mechanic, ether drop the best of three to keep it a level 5, or make it a level 6+ leved spell so enough rounds pass to determine if the spell actually holds.
As it is, at 5th level the damage has to come down to reasonable level or make it a save or stuck effect.
" Darkvision doesn’t work in Magical darkness, and if something is magical, Never Trust it acts the same way as a non-magical version of that same thing!”- Discotech Mage over a cup of joe.