here i am, a returning player. I haven't played in about 35 years. A few of the items I had, like the Monster Manual II and copies of Dragon magazine, have gone by the wayside. I still have my original expert rulebook (copyright 1983), and a few of the solo adventures. My son has kindly offered for me to play in his current campaign, although I'll be starting at 1st level, and the rest of the group is now level 4.
So, I started digging through his copy of player's handbook. And I can't find the info on certain things. Then I look at the character sheet. Its missing some things. Where's the spot for my THAC0? I ask. Everybody at the table gives me this deer in the headlights stare, they've never heard of it. OK, so I explain. AC is now reversed, they tell me. The higher the better. Huh? That doesn't make sense, but I'll roll with it. It does fall in line with when I played EQ, EQ2, and the bit of easy push button WOW. Ah, the surprises don't end there. No psyonics. No more Dragon magazine. No more max 18/00 on stats.
Did I miss something here? What I'm seeing now in some parts resembles what I remember for the 80s, and some of it, its so different...
here i am, a returning player. I haven't played in about 35 years. A few of the items I had, like the Monster Manual II and copies of Dragon magazine, have gone by the wayside. I still have my original expert rulebook (copyright 1983), and a few of the solo adventures. My son has kindly offered for me to play in his current campaign, although I'll be starting at 1st level, and the rest of the group is now level 4.
So, I started digging through his copy of player's handbook. And I can't find the info on certain things. Then I look at the character sheet. Its missing some things. Where's the spot for my THAC0? I ask. Everybody at the table gives me this deer in the headlights stare, they've never heard of it. OK, so I explain. AC is now reversed, they tell me. The higher the better. Huh? That doesn't make sense, but I'll roll with it. It does fall in line with when I played EQ, EQ2, and the bit of easy push button WOW. Ah, the surprises don't end there. No scionics. No more Dragon magazine. No more max 18/00 on stats.
Did I miss something here? What I'm seeing now in some parts resembles what I remember for the 80s, and some of it, its so different...
DnD 5e is designed to be easy for new players to play. It's probably the most similar to 3e/3.5e, since 4e was a complete failure by WotC.
In the 1980s it was D&D 1st edition, then 2nd edition and AD&D 1st and 2nd editions. Then TSR went bankrupt and WotC bought the copyright in the late '90s. Then 3rd edition happened, then a few years later 3.5 e. Then 4e happened and almost killed D&D. Then another company made a similar game called Pathfinder (now in its 2nd edition), and now we are up to 5th edition D&D.
If you read chapters 7, 9, and 10 of the PHB (or the free Basic Rules as they are the same) you will be caught up to speed.
Add your proficiency bonus if you are proficient in that roll
You must get greater than or equal to some target value (Skill Check DC, Armor Class, etc)
To hit / AC now matches the other rolls. It is much easier to calculate and figure out on the fly. Ability scores are just flat +1 per two points, so its much easier to compare. Psionics are a thing that Wizards is working on, but isn't in any official books yet. There is now just one XP curve that all classes follow, and they aren't race restricted. All classes go to level 20.
Oh, remember making multiple characters and waiting to see which one lived to 3rd level to see which one you will play? Now you can reasonably expect to hit 3rd level in as little as 2-4 sessions, and most characters live until the end of the campaign.
AC goes up now not down. It still starts at AC of 10 base, but every improvement goes up, and the to hit is equal to the number on the AC. So whereas chain + shield would have given you a 5 AC and you would have had to use THACO or a table to figure out what you had to roll to hit, now you just call it an AC of 15 and you have to roll a 15 to hit it.
The % chance to hit is probably the same either way. The new way is just easier to do in your head.
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WOTC lies. We know that WOTC lies. WOTC knows that we know that WOTC lies. We know that WOTC knows that we know that WOTC lies. And still they lie.
Because of the above (a paraphrase from Orwell) I no longer post to the forums -- PM me if you need help or anything.
Yep, getting rid of THAC0 and putting it in line with the ability check system makes for a more accessible game. These moves, after the brand was bought by Wizards who in turn was bought by Hasbro, lead to an easier learning curve and thereby a broader sustainable market/audience. I haven't looked at it deeply, but people missing the "crunchiness" of older versions of D&D may recover a lot of that in Pathfinder ... but there was a trend in I think the late 90s early 2000s where one school of role playing leaned more toward simplified mechanics to enable story telling with a few games sticking to more "hard core" "realism" bogging down mechanics (I remember playing Phoenix Command where it took us about an hour to sort through three seconds of a four on three gun fight ... of course the old school Top Secret had moments like that to an extent to, at least the high likelihood of dying before you can do anything in a violent encounter). This moment took place when there was some cross pollination between the tabletop game world and the video game biz (Mike Pondsmith of Cyberpunk fame went up to Seattle I think and came back with a new appreciation for streamlined design, I'm sure there were others ... as I understood it, the table top types helped the video game industry improve with "story" while the video game industry taught lessons of "flow" and scaleable challenges).
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Jander Sunstar is the thinking person's Drizzt, fight me.
Wow. A lot of changes since my DM of yesteryear got a copy of Oriental Adventures, when it first published. Sounds like a lot of stuff is a bit easier. Now, with this info, I'm wondering if its going to be easy to use those few solo adventures, with new characters, or if I'll need to convert them somehow. Anybody know?
As someone that grew up in, played in (not just D&D), and was creatively shaped and inspired by the 80s, I get ya. That being said, it isn't the 80s anymore. Mullets, fashion, and the constant gaming push for nostalgia is there but otherwise, things move on and change. Change with it or you'll be lost and frustrated. It's just "how it is"
Why are you starting at level 1 when they are level 4? This might set you up for an unpleasant experience. To each their own and it's his game, so abide by his rules, but for me, that's a big no-no
High AC = better does make sense. You roll 1d20 and add bonuses. If your total beats the target number, you are successful. Therefore, the higher that target number (AC in this case) the more difficult it is for you to succeed. Makes sense to me
As much as we can be fans of old school D&D, the preference towards it is mostly nostalgia. Sure there are great parts about older editions of D&D but as a whole, 5e absolutely blows away 1st and 2nd ed. That's my opinion, but I'd venture it's the opinion of about 90% of the player base, new and old
Just sit down, have fun, and ask questions. And don't be the grumpy old guy that's all about, "back in my days". You'll ruin the fun for yourself and the young folk. In the end, they are carrying the RPG torch moving forward, not us. Don't dump on their experience of it
I wouldn’t worry about the level disparity, you’ll probably be at 3rd level before the rest of the party hits 5th. Pretty soon you’ll be at most a half level (or less) behind the others.
Wow. A lot of changes since my DM of yesteryear got a copy of Oriental Adventures, when it first published. Sounds like a lot of stuff is a bit easier. Now, with this info, I'm wondering if its going to be easy to use those few solo adventures, with new characters, or if I'll need to convert them somehow. Anybody know?
You'll have to convert your AD&D stuff to 5e to "really" play them. See your own realization that the armor class mechanic will be reversed.
The cool thing about playing now as opposed to back in the day, is there are a lot of resources converting old editions to 5e that sort of do a lot of the work that would have taken you a lot of time and research. It's possible someone might have even converted the specific module already. Google is your friend there, "convert ad&d to 5e" and find a guide you like.
As for "Oriental Adventures" ... the culture of the game has changed to be more inclusive and sensitive of people beyond the presumed white, western euro centric models of sword and sorcery. I'll skip the lecture, since I'm just assuming you were dropping the title out of nostalgia (I remeber it was very popular book published in concert with the ninja dominating pop culture in the U.S. in the 80s), and just say I remember the title being offensive to some readers even back then, the problem even being discussed in Dragon magazine, and that the present publishers have done a lot of work to avoid racial stereotypes. That said, in the present edition the Ninja and Kensai are both subclasses of the Monk (though the ninja is referred to as a monk practicing the way of shadow in the main rule book, the Kensai is presented in Xanthar's which I mention next sentence) the samurai is a subclass of the fighter which I believe is found in Xanthar's Guide to Everything (Xanthar's Guide is sort of like what that hardback Unearthed Arcana was in AD&D ... and Unearthed Arcana is basically Wizards way of publicly releasing and assessing new ideas, mostly character classes through playtests ... kinda like some of the options presented in the old Dragon). I don't believe there are official stats of katanas or wakizashi as they're basically long -- sometimes great -- and short swords mechanically, game world could make them more expensive and use whatever mechanics there may be for "quality". Nunchuka are flails, etc. Martial arts beyond regular game brawling and grappling is the purview of the Monk and its subclasses, I haven't done much with it myself, but I think it's one of those areas that has a mixed reaction in terms of how advanced unarmed fighting works in a game with a simplified combat system.
Any previous edition stuff will need converted. Even between 3rd edition (when THAC0 went away) to 5th, things like armor class and skill bonuses scale differently. The number range is much more compact now.
It’s not a hard conversion to do. If the module says “12 skeletons” then just use the new skeletons instead of the old ones. It the module says “a 6th level Cleric” then use the new system and make a 6th level Cleric. It really only gets iffy when you have to deal with traps, or if you are not sure how to balance encounters in 5e, but that comes with practice.
Well, I talked with my son this evening. He thought for a few, and said it was my choice, I was able to start as level 3 or 4. Come to find out, the other players started at level 3. So, I rolled up something I wanted to play back in the 80s, but never got the chance. I went Paladin. Oathbreaker path. I'd been wanting to play an Anti-Paladin since Dragon volume 106, and this should give me my fix. I really wanted the true one from volume 39, but... my DM wouldn't allow that back then. Its an NPC, only. Oh well. I still get to play something similar.
One of the new things about 5th Edition is that 1st and 2nd level are now more "training wheels" for new players and a lot of groups tend to regard 3rd level as being the "true" starting level for adventuring.
Also, all classes use the same XP chart and it's designed to level you up much faster. As I've heard it put once, to reach 2nd level you need to get into one fight and have one conversation.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Find your own truth, choose your enemies carefully, and never deal with a dragon.
"Canon" is what's factual to D&D lore. "Cannon" is what you're going to be shot with if you keep getting the word wrong.
here i am, a returning player. I haven't played in about 35 years. A few of the items I had, like the Monster Manual II and copies of Dragon magazine, have gone by the wayside. I still have my original expert rulebook (copyright 1983), and a few of the solo adventures. My son has kindly offered for me to play in his current campaign, although I'll be starting at 1st level, and the rest of the group is now level 4.
So, I started digging through his copy of player's handbook. And I can't find the info on certain things. Then I look at the character sheet. Its missing some things. Where's the spot for my THAC0? I ask. Everybody at the table gives me this deer in the headlights stare, they've never heard of it. OK, so I explain. AC is now reversed, they tell me. The higher the better. Huh? That doesn't make sense, but I'll roll with it. It does fall in line with when I played EQ, EQ2, and the bit of easy push button WOW. Ah, the surprises don't end there. No psyonics. No more Dragon magazine. No more max 18/00 on stats.
Did I miss something here? What I'm seeing now in some parts resembles what I remember for the 80s, and some of it, its so different...
DnD 5e is designed to be easy for new players to play. It's probably the most similar to 3e/3.5e, since 4e was a complete failure by WotC.
There is no dawn after eternal night.
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No infravision it is now darkvision
In the 1980s it was D&D 1st edition, then 2nd edition and AD&D 1st and 2nd editions. Then TSR went bankrupt and WotC bought the copyright in the late '90s. Then 3rd edition happened, then a few years later 3.5 e. Then 4e happened and almost killed D&D. Then another company made a similar game called Pathfinder (now in its 2nd edition), and now we are up to 5th edition D&D.
If you read chapters 7, 9, and 10 of the PHB (or the free Basic Rules as they are the same) you will be caught up to speed.
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A lot has changed in 35 years.
Most rolls boil down to:
To hit / AC now matches the other rolls. It is much easier to calculate and figure out on the fly.
Ability scores are just flat +1 per two points, so its much easier to compare.
Psionics are a thing that Wizards is working on, but isn't in any official books yet.
There is now just one XP curve that all classes follow, and they aren't race restricted.
All classes go to level 20.
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Oh, remember making multiple characters and waiting to see which one lived to 3rd level to see which one you will play? Now you can reasonably expect to hit 3rd level in as little as 2-4 sessions, and most characters live until the end of the campaign.
Creating Epic Boons on DDB
DDB Buyers' Guide
Hardcovers, DDB & You
Content Troubleshooting
There is no THACO.
AC goes up now not down. It still starts at AC of 10 base, but every improvement goes up, and the to hit is equal to the number on the AC. So whereas chain + shield would have given you a 5 AC and you would have had to use THACO or a table to figure out what you had to roll to hit, now you just call it an AC of 15 and you have to roll a 15 to hit it.
The % chance to hit is probably the same either way. The new way is just easier to do in your head.
WOTC lies. We know that WOTC lies. WOTC knows that we know that WOTC lies. We know that WOTC knows that we know that WOTC lies. And still they lie.
Because of the above (a paraphrase from Orwell) I no longer post to the forums -- PM me if you need help or anything.
Ohh man yeah, Thac0 went away with 3rd edition, I don't even know where my thac0 wheel is anymore.
Yep, getting rid of THAC0 and putting it in line with the ability check system makes for a more accessible game. These moves, after the brand was bought by Wizards who in turn was bought by Hasbro, lead to an easier learning curve and thereby a broader sustainable market/audience. I haven't looked at it deeply, but people missing the "crunchiness" of older versions of D&D may recover a lot of that in Pathfinder ... but there was a trend in I think the late 90s early 2000s where one school of role playing leaned more toward simplified mechanics to enable story telling with a few games sticking to more "hard core" "realism" bogging down mechanics (I remember playing Phoenix Command where it took us about an hour to sort through three seconds of a four on three gun fight ... of course the old school Top Secret had moments like that to an extent to, at least the high likelihood of dying before you can do anything in a violent encounter). This moment took place when there was some cross pollination between the tabletop game world and the video game biz (Mike Pondsmith of Cyberpunk fame went up to Seattle I think and came back with a new appreciation for streamlined design, I'm sure there were others ... as I understood it, the table top types helped the video game industry improve with "story" while the video game industry taught lessons of "flow" and scaleable challenges).
Jander Sunstar is the thinking person's Drizzt, fight me.
Wow. A lot of changes since my DM of yesteryear got a copy of Oriental Adventures, when it first published. Sounds like a lot of stuff is a bit easier. Now, with this info, I'm wondering if its going to be easy to use those few solo adventures, with new characters, or if I'll need to convert them somehow. Anybody know?
A few things -
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I wouldn’t worry about the level disparity, you’ll probably be at 3rd level before the rest of the party hits 5th. Pretty soon you’ll be at most a half level (or less) behind the others.
Creating Epic Boons on DDB
DDB Buyers' Guide
Hardcovers, DDB & You
Content Troubleshooting
You'll have to convert your AD&D stuff to 5e to "really" play them. See your own realization that the armor class mechanic will be reversed.
The cool thing about playing now as opposed to back in the day, is there are a lot of resources converting old editions to 5e that sort of do a lot of the work that would have taken you a lot of time and research. It's possible someone might have even converted the specific module already. Google is your friend there, "convert ad&d to 5e" and find a guide you like.
As for "Oriental Adventures" ... the culture of the game has changed to be more inclusive and sensitive of people beyond the presumed white, western euro centric models of sword and sorcery. I'll skip the lecture, since I'm just assuming you were dropping the title out of nostalgia (I remeber it was very popular book published in concert with the ninja dominating pop culture in the U.S. in the 80s), and just say I remember the title being offensive to some readers even back then, the problem even being discussed in Dragon magazine, and that the present publishers have done a lot of work to avoid racial stereotypes. That said, in the present edition the Ninja and Kensai are both subclasses of the Monk (though the ninja is referred to as a monk practicing the way of shadow in the main rule book, the Kensai is presented in Xanthar's which I mention next sentence) the samurai is a subclass of the fighter which I believe is found in Xanthar's Guide to Everything (Xanthar's Guide is sort of like what that hardback Unearthed Arcana was in AD&D ... and Unearthed Arcana is basically Wizards way of publicly releasing and assessing new ideas, mostly character classes through playtests ... kinda like some of the options presented in the old Dragon). I don't believe there are official stats of katanas or wakizashi as they're basically long -- sometimes great -- and short swords mechanically, game world could make them more expensive and use whatever mechanics there may be for "quality". Nunchuka are flails, etc. Martial arts beyond regular game brawling and grappling is the purview of the Monk and its subclasses, I haven't done much with it myself, but I think it's one of those areas that has a mixed reaction in terms of how advanced unarmed fighting works in a game with a simplified combat system.
Jander Sunstar is the thinking person's Drizzt, fight me.
Any previous edition stuff will need converted. Even between 3rd edition (when THAC0 went away) to 5th, things like armor class and skill bonuses scale differently. The number range is much more compact now.
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It’s not a hard conversion to do. If the module says “12 skeletons” then just use the new skeletons instead of the old ones. It the module says “a 6th level Cleric” then use the new system and make a 6th level Cleric. It really only gets iffy when you have to deal with traps, or if you are not sure how to balance encounters in 5e, but that comes with practice.
Creating Epic Boons on DDB
DDB Buyers' Guide
Hardcovers, DDB & You
Content Troubleshooting
Well, I talked with my son this evening. He thought for a few, and said it was my choice, I was able to start as level 3 or 4. Come to find out, the other players started at level 3. So, I rolled up something I wanted to play back in the 80s, but never got the chance. I went Paladin. Oathbreaker path. I'd been wanting to play an Anti-Paladin since Dragon volume 106, and this should give me my fix. I really wanted the true one from volume 39, but... my DM wouldn't allow that back then. Its an NPC, only. Oh well. I still get to play something similar.
One of the new things about 5th Edition is that 1st and 2nd level are now more "training wheels" for new players and a lot of groups tend to regard 3rd level as being the "true" starting level for adventuring.
Also, all classes use the same XP chart and it's designed to level you up much faster. As I've heard it put once, to reach 2nd level you need to get into one fight and have one conversation.
Find your own truth, choose your enemies carefully, and never deal with a dragon.
"Canon" is what's factual to D&D lore. "Cannon" is what you're going to be shot with if you keep getting the word wrong.
https://dnd.dragonmag.com/
There you go =)
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Just be glad you skipped over the Dark Ages (4e).
Thats funny, when I heard AC goes up not down I thought it made perfect sense