Late to the discussion, but I wanted to add to something that was said earlier: for the Forgotten Realms setting at least, Ed Greenwood has always said that the Realms is sexually and gender diverse. The Realms doesn't really suffer from homophobia or transphobia. This sadly wasn't always reflected in the novels and materials, with a few exceptions. Only more recently are we seeing the material reflect what was always meant to be there.
One example that has been in the lore for a long time is the Seldarine (elven pantheon). Now, they're gods, and gods are technically beyond gender, anyway (though some certainly encompass more "masculine" or "feminine" portfolios), but the Seldarine in particular have always been known for their generfludity. If you look in the source book Cormanthyr: Empire of Elves, it describes there being statues of the Seldarine in both male and female forms.
In general, women and men are fairly equal. You do have your exceptions, of course (some regions may have more "traditional" roles expected of you), but women can be guards, warriors, wizards, etc.
Late to the discussion, but I wanted to add to something that was said earlier: for the Forgotten Realms setting at least, Ed Greenwood has always said that the Realms is sexually and gender diverse. The Realms doesn't really suffer from homophobia or transphobia. This sadly wasn't always reflected in the novels and materials, with a few exceptions. Only more recently are we seeing the material reflect what was always meant to be there.
One example that has been in the lore for a long time is the Seldarine (elven pantheon). Now, they're gods, and gods are technically beyond gender, anyway (though some certainly encompass more "masculine" or "feminine" portfolios), but the Seldarine in particular have always been known for their generfludity. If you look in the source book Cormanthyr: Empire of Elves, it describes there being statues of the Seldarine in both male and female forms.
In general, women and men are fairly equal. You do have your exceptions, of course (some regions may have more "traditional" roles expected of you), but women can be guards, warriors, wizards, etc.
Awesome 😊. That was always my impression of the Realms. Glad Ed Greenwood confirms it.
Random question
What do you think of the relationship between Aphrodite and Hanali Celanil?
At the very least, anyone and everyone is welcome at my D&D table so long as they can behave in a civil manner.
In my current gaming group, females outnumber the only male (me) four to one. Even before the pandemic hit, my school group (which I dm for) was two-thirds female and comprised of myself, four females, and one other guy. Once the pandemic hit, I chose two of the females (their names are Susie and Macy, changed for privacy) to play with me over zoom during lockdown, joined by my little sister, and Susie's as well. Needless to say, my group won't gatekeep for anything.
I've personally never experienced any gatekeeping in D&D, or any of my other hobbies. People who want to play can play. There may be limits, such as a DM who isn't comfortable having a larger or a smaller group, or the inevitable personality clashes of players and characters, or a DM being really, really bad at it, but actively keeping people out? Never experienced it personally.
The only thing that matters, more than anything else about the game, is that everyone is having fun.
So great for you and your friends playing. It's awesome and I want everyone to have fun playing their individual games.
I think the lack of women dms is just the lack of women players. In my XP, about 10% of the players want to dm. So if your group of women gamers are smaller then you are going have less female DM than male DMs.
I think the lack of women dms is just the lack of women players. In my XP, about 10% of the players want to dm. So if your group of women gamers are smaller then you are going have less female DM than male DMs.
You raise a valid point. You don’t think part of it is that some girls want to DM their own games and are being implicitly discouraged from doing so?
Back in the day, I'd say it's possible they were ...I don't want to use the word intimidated, but it's possible something similar might have happened. A girl would have had to "prove" herself or some dumb crap back then. Personally I would have been THRILLED if any of my players wanted to GM. But I also know a LOT of guys who would have laughed or otherwise ridiculed a girl for trying.
Now, it's a totally different environment. One of my players GMs her own game and I'm super proud of her. I can't see people not wanting to play in a game run by a woman, and more women have RPG ambitions. Now, a GM is a GM no matter man or woman.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
"Sooner or later, your Players are going to smash your railroad into a sandbox."
-Vedexent
"real life is a super high CR."
-OboeLauren
"............anybody got any potatoes? We could drop a potato in each hole an' see which ones get viciously mauled by horrible monsters?"
In a facebook group I belong to someone asked about woman DM’s and the response of all the woman coming out and saying that they DM some form of TTRPG was over 500 repliers. I was one of them. I have DM’d D&D 3.5, Vampire and currently running a Big Eye Small Mouth campaign. There are woman DMs out there you just have to look. Same for ones on twitch and YouTube. There are a few that I know of at the top of the head. Plus if I remember correctly all of the women on CR have DM’d at one point.
Despite saying all of that. There are still gatekeeping happening on various platforms. Some cisgender men are very protective of their geek spaces and you can find stories of those types on Youtube as well as I think it is either D&D or RPG horror stories on reddit.
Back in the day, I'd say it's possible they were ...I don't want to use the word intimidated, but it's possible something similar might have happened. A girl would have had to "prove" herself or some dumb crap back then. Personally I would have been THRILLED if any of my players wanted to GM. But I also know a LOT of guys who would have laughed or otherwise ridiculed a girl for trying.
Now, it's a totally different environment. One of my players GMs her own game and I'm super proud of her. I can't see people not wanting to play in a game run by a woman, and more women have RPG ambitions. Now, a GM is a GM no matter man or woman.
It’s improved, but I wouldn’t say totally different. I’ve seen male players buck female DMs in ways they wouldn’t buck male DMs. And my daughter struggles with that with her friend group: male players will argue with her rulings, but when one of the guys is a DM, they don’t. If she calls them on it they will stop for a while, but it’s exhausting for her.
I think the lack of women dms is just the lack of women players. In my XP, about 10% of the players want to dm. So if your group of women gamers are smaller then you are going have less female DM than male DMs.
You raise a valid point. You don’t think part of it is that some girls want to DM their own games and are being implicitly discouraged from doing so?
Nope. Not at all. If a girl wants to DM, she's more than welcome. If she tells me the ideas she has for a story and setting and its something I'm interested in, or she's someone I've played with for awhile and she would like to have a go at being DM, then I'm all for playing in her campaign.
I've never seen or experienced any women from being excluded from playing or DMing.
I think a key thing here is that every group is different -- for example, I feel that my group is discrimination free, but that says nothing about the greater population.
I think the lack of women dms is just the lack of women players. In my XP, about 10% of the players want to dm. So if your group of women gamers are smaller then you are going have less female DM than male DMs.
You raise a valid point. You don’t think part of it is that some girls want to DM their own games and are being implicitly discouraged from doing so?
Nope. Not at all. If a girl wants to DM, she's more than welcome. If she tells me the ideas she has for a story and setting and its something I'm interested in, or she's someone I've played with for awhile and she would like to have a go at being DM, then I'm all for it playing in her campaign.
I've never seen or experienced any women from being excluded from playing or DMing.
I think a key thing here is that every group is different -- for example, I feel that my group is discrimination free, but that says little about the greater population. Like any form of equality, it will vary greatly depending on your table or group.
So while some of us like dragonlord and I have never experienced this type problem, for many (like ArwensDaughter's daughter), it is still a difficulty. But from what I know, it has become less of a problem overall recently, that doesn't mean that it doesn't still exist.
I read to page 6 just when the bickering started and bypassed to page 9 so this may have been tossed out there and missed it. Just to throw a wrench in your data analysis, just remember there are DM's who use the "unlimited" character options to make NPC's so they can have them ready. I have a good 20 characters and most were quick builds for an NPC i needed. I am sure i am on the low totem pole for this as I am not that active.
As for Women DM, please do so, i have just as much fun listening to a podcast of a female DM as a male DM, plus when I have my daughter along, I like for her to hear that, i think she engages more listening to it.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
I just want to tell everyone "happy gaming" and actually mean it. Whatever your game is, just have fun with it, it is after all, just a game.
Late to the discussion, but I wanted to add to something that was said earlier: for the Forgotten Realms setting at least, Ed Greenwood has always said that the Realms is sexually and gender diverse. The Realms doesn't really suffer from homophobia or transphobia. This sadly wasn't always reflected in the novels and materials, with a few exceptions. Only more recently are we seeing the material reflect what was always meant to be there.
One example that has been in the lore for a long time is the Seldarine (elven pantheon). Now, they're gods, and gods are technically beyond gender, anyway (though some certainly encompass more "masculine" or "feminine" portfolios), but the Seldarine in particular have always been known for their generfludity. If you look in the source book Cormanthyr: Empire of Elves, it describes there being statues of the Seldarine in both male and female forms.
In general, women and men are fairly equal. You do have your exceptions, of course (some regions may have more "traditional" roles expected of you), but women can be guards, warriors, wizards, etc.
Awesome 😊. That was always my impression of the Realms. Glad Ed Greenwood confirms it.
Random question
What do you think of the relationship between Aphrodite and Hanali Celanil?
This is actually the first I'm hearing of said relationship lol. From a lore standpoint, Aphrodite isn't an FR goddess, and I'm not a huge fan when they suddenly shove these things in there. On the other hand, given that the various D&D settings are part of the multiverse, it makes total sense that pantheons of different worlds/setting would interact with each other, as I'm sure they did in Planescape, since it had both deities from real world mythology (like Aphrodite), and ones from D&D original settings, like Hanali. So it makes sense that deities "cross over" and interact with deities from other worlds. In that case, I am fine with Aphrodite and Hanali having a relationship. Love is love, and that includes between deities.
I think the lack of women dms is just the lack of women players. In my XP, about 10% of the players want to dm. So if your group of women gamers are smaller then you are going have less female DM than male DMs.
You raise a valid point. You don’t think part of it is that some girls want to DM their own games and are being implicitly discouraged from doing so?
BEEP. No. We love it at the game store when another dm shows up. If it a female dm tables split to fill her's and sometimes she has to turn people away. Also I know of two of our regular 4 females gamers have their own homebrew games but not at the game store. So they are out there but not in most public settings.
For me, it became gender-neutral over the years but it wasn't always like that.
Still, I get a feeling (which is just a feeling, not a fact) that many people still associate DM with the commonly-assumed-to-be-masculine designation of Dungeon Master. I think (and this is just a personal perception) it comes from seeing many people referring to men as "DMs" and women as "women DMs" instead of also just "DMs".
When I say/type, DM, I mean the person who manages the game with the players. (I refer to programmed, digital game managing as "the game" or "the videogame".) There is a separation in my brain from DM to the phrase of Dungeon Master. I prefer to use DM.
Am I wrong that it seems to me that so few use DM as gender-neutral and must specify when the gender is not masculine? (It could be just the people where I live for all I know.)
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Human. Male. Possibly. Don't be a divider. My characters' backgrounds are written like instruction manuals rather than stories. My opinion and preferences don't mean you're wrong. I am 99.7603% convinced that the digital dice are messing with me. I roll high when nobody's looking and low when anyone else can see.🎲 “It's a bit early to be thinking about an epitaph. No?” will be my epitaph.
For me, it became gender-neutral over the years but it wasn't always like that.
Still, I get a feeling (which is just a feeling, not a fact) that many people still associate DM with the commonly-assumed-to-be-masculine designation of Dungeon Master. I think (and this is just a personal perception) it comes from seeing many people referring to men as "DMs" and women as "women DMs" instead of also just "DMs".
When I say/type, DM, I mean the person who manages the game with the players. (I refer to programmed, digital game managing as "the game" or "the videogame".) There is a separation in my brain from DM to the phrase of Dungeon Master. I prefer to use DM.
Am I wrong that it seems to me that so few use DM as gender-neutral and must specify when the gender is not masculine? (It could be just the people where I live for all I know.)
I prefer DM too. And I do use it as gender neutral.
I think the lack of women dms is just the lack of women players. In my XP, about 10% of the players want to dm. So if your group of women gamers are smaller then you are going have less female DM than male DMs.
You raise a valid point. You don’t think part of it is that some girls want to DM their own games and are being implicitly discouraged from doing so?
BEEP. No. We love it at the game store when another dm shows up. If it a female dm tables split to fill her's and sometimes she has to turn people away. Also I know of two of our regular 4 females gamers have their own homebrew games but not at the game store. So they are out there but not in most public settings.
I've had great DM's of both primary genders. Not seen any reason to assume either gender runs any particular style either.
Awesome 😊. I definitely agree with you. I personally like romance and political intrigue in my games but that’s more of a me thing than a gender thing.
'Master' is only a gendered term in the bedroom. Nobody ever refers to a female code guru as a 'mistress programmer'. Some gals may adopt the term Dungeon Mistress because it makes them feel spicy, but yeah. The term has never had any gendered-language connotations for me.
'Master' is only a gendered term in the bedroom. Nobody ever refers to a female code guru as a 'mistress programmer'. Some gals may adopt the term Dungeon Mistress because it makes them feel spicy, but yeah. The term has never had any gendered-language connotations for me.
Heck, as far as I’m concerned “dude” has become a gender-neutral term. I call both my mom and my female best friend “dude.” They both call other female friends dude too.
Late to the discussion, but I wanted to add to something that was said earlier: for the Forgotten Realms setting at least, Ed Greenwood has always said that the Realms is sexually and gender diverse. The Realms doesn't really suffer from homophobia or transphobia. This sadly wasn't always reflected in the novels and materials, with a few exceptions. Only more recently are we seeing the material reflect what was always meant to be there.
One example that has been in the lore for a long time is the Seldarine (elven pantheon). Now, they're gods, and gods are technically beyond gender, anyway (though some certainly encompass more "masculine" or "feminine" portfolios), but the Seldarine in particular have always been known for their generfludity. If you look in the source book Cormanthyr: Empire of Elves, it describes there being statues of the Seldarine in both male and female forms.
In general, women and men are fairly equal. You do have your exceptions, of course (some regions may have more "traditional" roles expected of you), but women can be guards, warriors, wizards, etc.
Awesome 😊. That was always my impression of the Realms. Glad Ed Greenwood confirms it.
Random question
What do you think of the relationship between Aphrodite and Hanali Celanil?
I've personally never experienced any gatekeeping in D&D, or any of my other hobbies. People who want to play can play. There may be limits, such as a DM who isn't comfortable having a larger or a smaller group, or the inevitable personality clashes of players and characters, or a DM being really, really bad at it, but actively keeping people out? Never experienced it personally.
The only thing that matters, more than anything else about the game, is that everyone is having fun.
So great for you and your friends playing. It's awesome and I want everyone to have fun playing their individual games.
I think the lack of women dms is just the lack of women players. In my XP, about 10% of the players want to dm. So if your group of women gamers are smaller then you are going have less female DM than male DMs.
No Gaming is Better than Bad Gaming.
You raise a valid point. You don’t think part of it is that some girls want to DM their own games and are being implicitly discouraged from doing so?
Back in the day, I'd say it's possible they were ...I don't want to use the word intimidated, but it's possible something similar might have happened. A girl would have had to "prove" herself or some dumb crap back then. Personally I would have been THRILLED if any of my players wanted to GM. But I also know a LOT of guys who would have laughed or otherwise ridiculed a girl for trying.
Now, it's a totally different environment. One of my players GMs her own game and I'm super proud of her. I can't see people not wanting to play in a game run by a woman, and more women have RPG ambitions. Now, a GM is a GM no matter man or woman.
"Sooner or later, your Players are going to smash your railroad into a sandbox."
-Vedexent
"real life is a super high CR."
-OboeLauren
"............anybody got any potatoes? We could drop a potato in each hole an' see which ones get viciously mauled by horrible monsters?"
-Ilyara Thundertale
In a facebook group I belong to someone asked about woman DM’s and the response of all the woman coming out and saying that they DM some form of TTRPG was over 500 repliers. I was one of them. I have DM’d D&D 3.5, Vampire and currently running a Big Eye Small Mouth campaign. There are woman DMs out there you just have to look. Same for ones on twitch and YouTube. There are a few that I know of at the top of the head. Plus if I remember correctly all of the women on CR have DM’d at one point.
Despite saying all of that. There are still gatekeeping happening on various platforms. Some cisgender men are very protective of their geek spaces and you can find stories of those types on Youtube as well as I think it is either D&D or RPG horror stories on reddit.
It’s improved, but I wouldn’t say totally different. I’ve seen male players buck female DMs in ways they wouldn’t buck male DMs. And my daughter struggles with that with her friend group: male players will argue with her rulings, but when one of the guys is a DM, they don’t. If she calls them on it they will stop for a while, but it’s exhausting for her.
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Nope. Not at all. If a girl wants to DM, she's more than welcome. If she tells me the ideas she has for a story and setting and its something I'm interested in, or she's someone I've played with for awhile and she would like to have a go at being DM, then I'm all for playing in her campaign.
I've never seen or experienced any women from being excluded from playing or DMing.
I think a key thing here is that every group is different -- for example, I feel that my group is discrimination free, but that says nothing about the greater population.
I think a key thing here is that every group is different -- for example, I feel that my group is discrimination free, but that says little about the greater population. Like any form of equality, it will vary greatly depending on your table or group.
So while some of us like dragonlord and I have never experienced this type problem, for many (like ArwensDaughter's daughter), it is still a difficulty. But from what I know, it has become less of a problem overall recently, that doesn't mean that it doesn't still exist.
Proud poster on the Create a World thread
I read to page 6 just when the bickering started and bypassed to page 9 so this may have been tossed out there and missed it. Just to throw a wrench in your data analysis, just remember there are DM's who use the "unlimited" character options to make NPC's so they can have them ready. I have a good 20 characters and most were quick builds for an NPC i needed. I am sure i am on the low totem pole for this as I am not that active.
As for Women DM, please do so, i have just as much fun listening to a podcast of a female DM as a male DM, plus when I have my daughter along, I like for her to hear that, i think she engages more listening to it.
I just want to tell everyone "happy gaming" and actually mean it. Whatever your game is, just have fun with it, it is after all, just a game.
This is actually the first I'm hearing of said relationship lol. From a lore standpoint, Aphrodite isn't an FR goddess, and I'm not a huge fan when they suddenly shove these things in there. On the other hand, given that the various D&D settings are part of the multiverse, it makes total sense that pantheons of different worlds/setting would interact with each other, as I'm sure they did in Planescape, since it had both deities from real world mythology (like Aphrodite), and ones from D&D original settings, like Hanali. So it makes sense that deities "cross over" and interact with deities from other worlds. In that case, I am fine with Aphrodite and Hanali having a relationship. Love is love, and that includes between deities.
Everyone: thank you so much for all your posts on women DMs and gender equality in D&D. Really appreciate the discussion.
@Seldarine801: no lol. Not that kind of relationship. I just meant like how do they get along? Best friends? Romantic lovers? Rivals?
BEEP. No. We love it at the game store when another dm shows up. If it a female dm tables split to fill her's and sometimes she has to turn people away. Also I know of two of our regular 4 females gamers have their own homebrew games but not at the game store. So they are out there but not in most public settings.
No Gaming is Better than Bad Gaming.
Has the acronym, DM, become gender-neutral?
For me, it became gender-neutral over the years but it wasn't always like that.
Still, I get a feeling (which is just a feeling, not a fact) that many people still associate DM with the commonly-assumed-to-be-masculine designation of Dungeon Master. I think (and this is just a personal perception) it comes from seeing many people referring to men as "DMs" and women as "women DMs" instead of also just "DMs".
When I say/type, DM, I mean the person who manages the game with the players. (I refer to programmed, digital game managing as "the game" or "the videogame".) There is a separation in my brain from DM to the phrase of Dungeon Master. I prefer to use DM.
Am I wrong that it seems to me that so few use DM as gender-neutral and must specify when the gender is not masculine? (It could be just the people where I live for all I know.)
Human. Male. Possibly. Don't be a divider.
My characters' backgrounds are written like instruction manuals rather than stories. My opinion and preferences don't mean you're wrong.
I am 99.7603% convinced that the digital dice are messing with me. I roll high when nobody's looking and low when anyone else can see.🎲
“It's a bit early to be thinking about an epitaph. No?” will be my epitaph.
I prefer DM too. And I do use it as gender neutral.
Awesome 😊. I definitely agree with you. I personally like romance and political intrigue in my games but that’s more of a me thing than a gender thing.
'Master' is only a gendered term in the bedroom. Nobody ever refers to a female code guru as a 'mistress programmer'. Some gals may adopt the term Dungeon Mistress because it makes them feel spicy, but yeah. The term has never had any gendered-language connotations for me.
Please do not contact or message me.
Dungeon Mistress 😂😂😂
Heck, as far as I’m concerned “dude” has become a gender-neutral term. I call both my mom and my female best friend “dude.” They both call other female friends dude too.
If dude can be gender neutral, so can DM.
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