I would say to OP, discrimination in DnD is definitly a thing, and not to generalize but is typically carried out by white cishet men. Ive read horror storied on reddit and from my current group of terrible experiences that have only brought us closer i guess.

I personally have not experienced it irl and this website actually has a pretty damn good community (with the occasionally questionable opinion but thats passable) and if you really wanna find a good group this is definitely the place. Stay away from reddit and tumblr thats how you play with nazis

Nicely said. I personally have found it increasingly important especially as i continue to find what actually works for me personally.

I would also like to not that dnd lore in 5e is honestly few and far between. I dont play in any pre-generated worlds, however i have always seen a decent amount of respect and representation for the LGBT+ community with things like the gender change potion from way back in 1e (which was most probably used in some problematic ways but the thought was there) all the way to MOoT where Polis was founded by two kings (with gorgeous artwork of them btw *chefs kiss*).Not to mention polls they take every once in a while to help them better understand their demographic.

Could they do more? Probably, but so could the rest of the world so im gonna have to give WotC a B+ for inclusion and representation.

I don't really care what gender someone is in a game. The topic of sexuality has cropped up every so often in games and I find it a touch more interesting when you find out someone's sexuality on your own rather than it pushed in your face. Like for the homebrew campaign that I want to run some day the mayor of a town will be a eunuch. Will I come outright and say it? No. They can find out on their own through roleplay and interacting with the people around them. If someone wants to bring their character and their companion is their same-sex partner? Go for it.

It was a pleasant surprise for me when the Imperial captain of Inferno Squad in Star Wars: Squadrons comes out saying he would like to live on a farming planet with his husband. That for me was a nice to hear moment. Rather than the orange-skinned person in the same game being blasted across adverts going "THIS IS A THEY/THEM THUS YOU MUST REFER TO THEM AS SUCH" and it's like... there's no reference to this at any point in the game (admittedly, I was falling asleep at the interactions between characters on the rebel side) and feels like they were put there to fit a requirement put by the company rather than a natural occurrence. There's a scenario that happens in Icewind Dale (which I shall not give away entirely) which makes the party come across a gay couple and a they/them character but it feels natural and part of the story with no reference to it stating "you MUST tell the players beforehand of whom they identify as".

Personally, as a straight white male and someone who very rarely steps outside unless it's for work or other necessities, I find this whole thing of having to KNOW someone's gender identity beforehand very much daunting. I will respect it should someone say to me "I'd prefer it you referred to me as a he rather than she" because I'm not a dick, even if I might come across as one at times.

But answering OP's question: I have heard horror stories on other websites but this community by far is the friendliest you'll meet for finding a group that fits your preference. I have had the misfortune with playing with actual racists/sexists in other games and it is not a pleasant experience nor one I want to have to deal with again. Even by going on Beyond's Discord you'll find everyone seems to respect one another's boundaries. I've said some dickish things in the past (or possibly even now) but I never mean it in a harmful way nor does anyone else here, I imagine.

Just wanna drop a reminder to keep things on topic and within the bounds of site rules.

I have not seen anything negative towards people of different orientations, but I also stay in a close group and don't attend larger gatherings where I don't know people. I guess you'll find idiots everywhere.

The tables I watch have all kinds social issues in game, but all those DMs will not allow homophobia or in-species racism in the game. Given the rare horror stories, I'm sure there are tables out there where it can be an issue, but none of the tables I watch allow that problem and I watch a wide range of tabletop types - rules barons/as-written to rule-per-setting/intended to "what rules?"/rules-as-fun. None of them allow homophobia or in-species racism in game (and by extension, it's forbidden out of game, too).

As for the other social issues, they allow classism and nearly all its variants as required for the story but not OOC.

I would like to think I'm not insular in this, but it's possible that the tables I watch are the exception. Still, I believe they are the normal in D&D tables. I feel that people will be able to feel safe at the majority of tables. Do not let any bad experience shut down the thought of finding a welcoming D&D community. We're here. We might not always speak up, but that's because it's getting to the point of being normalized in some places - a non-issue.

Quote from Jacked_Goblin >>

Quote from Gvarayi >> 

It seems to me, this generally "well meaning" attitude, is true for all editions of D&D.

At the same time, to assume everyone is straight and to fail to mention the existence of gay or transgender characters is highly problematic.

 

• Dozens if not closer to 40+ different rpgs over 4+ decades.
• 40 years of D&D.
• Easily 100+ adventures/modules.
• Easily 50+ campaigns.
• Easily hundreds of different characters.
• 3-4 dozen different players at my tables. 

I can count on 2 fingers the amount of times I've mentioned gay or transgender characters in any rpg.

We NEVER had a problem. Let people play how they play.

 There are explicitly LBGTQ+ rpgs on the market. D&D doesn't make a big thing of it other than through mostly implied inclusiveness (for which there may be several plausible reasons), but there are for instance several all-LGBTQ+ livestreaming D&D groups. It exists. Not in a pride parade kind of fashion, but certainly openly and in some cases enthusiastically.

Purely anecdotally, I've certainly had more very openly bisexual characters than I can count on all my fingers in my D&D groups in the late '80s and early '90s. Back then it was almost invariably cringey, juvenile, over-the-top stuff from immature kids (who, with the exception of one, to the best of my knowledge never turned out to be LGBTQ+ themselves) though. As that movement has become more mainstream, so have players grown up and become more inclusive (and more understanding).

RodneyMcNeely,

Like I said in my post, it made me a bit uncomfortable in that situation too. So I in no way disagree with you on that point.

But also like I said, their reasoning for it was that they were all terrified of accidentally offending someone by using the wrong pronouns or labels when conversing with them. When accidentally misgendering someone in conversation could potentially be a trigger that completely ruins someone’s good time, better to avoid the mistake if at all possible. By getting it all out up front, it let everyone feel more at ease, and made sure the entire event was acknowledged as an emotional safe space.

When conversing with someone they had just met, there was a bit of anxiety until they knew how to avoid offending the other person. By not introducing oneself the way I described earlier, one wasn’t telling them what one found safe, which made folks nervous. Considering the fact that in one evening I met dozens of people including individuals of no fewer than a 1/2 dozen different gender identities, I can understand why. Herero-cisgen folks don’t hold the monopoly on being potentially confused and or intimidated after all. So while it was strange to me to witness, I understand why the practice exists.

And just in case a post

• by a long term D&D player;

• who is also part of the LGBT+ comunity;

• about inclusivity, discrimination, and changing social norms;

• and in particular about how it all pertains to some people in the LGBT+ community

might possibly be considered “off topic” in a thread specifically about inclusivity and/or discrimination towards LGBT+ folks, as experienced through D&D:

The real world is becoming more aware and more inclusive in general. That will inevitably extend to our nerdy little corner of it, including this hobby. Having read this thread, it is apparent that, while some instances of discrimination have occurred (as was inevitable), the overall firsthand accounts of it are very few, and even secondhand accounts of it are in the minority of peoples’ experiences. With the world becoming even more inclusive than it was almost 30 years ago when I started in the hobby, one can reasonably anticipate that those instances will likely become even less common in future.

Hopefully, by promoting awareness in this community about some of the concerns held by some of the people in the LGBT+ comunity, whenever people find themselves in a situation where the two communities overlap, that a little thought and care be put into the choices people make as to what they might say or how they may say those things.

There are reasons why I try really, really hard to only ever use gendered pronouns when referring to folks of whom I know their gender identities. Otherwise I always use “they” or “one” in my posts. There is a reason why I specifically mention my gender neutral usage of the word “dude” in my posts. I do so specifically to be sure that I don’t accidentally misgender anyone in these forums. I do it to protect the feelings of others, and hopefully as an example to be mindful of the issue.

A little mindfulness never hurt anyone, a little thoughtlessness hurts everyone.

Slightly less relevant to the current discussion, but it was touched on earlier, but in Dungeon of the Mad Mage, the only full published adventure im really familiar with, I know of at least one female npc that's listed as having a wife, who i think I looked up on the internet and her wife appears as a bartender or something in Storm King's Thunder. But, I think mostly the sentiment about it being so rare among NPC's is just because from a game design standpoint it's just not always relevant to the purpose the npc serves. In DotMM it's relevant because there's a sidequest that involves rescuing her from a Dungeon and uniting her with her wife. Not to mention d&d likes to focus on DM freedom, so i imagine that extends to personal details about npc's, many of whom are *also* not explicitly stated to be straight, and that could definitely vary from table to table. Like in The Adventure Zone when Taako started hitting on the Grim Reaper and Griffin as the DM just rolled with it and was like "this is cannon now, the grim reaper has a boyfriend."

But going back to published material, aside from adventures, I know that the Ravnica book (people's feelings on the rest of it aside), had a specific statement in the introduction saying that peoples of Ravnica should be "diverse peoples who enjoy a life adorned by a variety of species, gender identities, and sexual orientations."

And yes, I'm sure you could absolutely say that a little blurb in the intro is 'too little too late, but given how it's a setting book and not overly concerned with individual characters,  the rest of the book is more concerned with describing guild politics and building guild-based adventures, it's not strictly relevant to the rest of the book and I find it really cool that they put it in there to set the stage, as it were. 

This all isn't to say "here's a gay character and a blurb about inclusivity, what else do you want?", but more to address earlier comments that seemed to imply that there is no LGBTQ+ content. It is there, there could even be other examples in books I don't happen to know off the top of my head, but the claim that d&d 5e is devoid of representation and I just happened to stumble across the only two examples of it seems unlikely. 

I remember in the Dragon Heist book there were a couple references to some of the NPC's being in same-sex relationships, and others who transitioned from one sex to another; there's probably more to it, but that's beyond the scope of this thread.

More on point to the topic, as a cisgendered gay man, my experience with the D&D community has been overwhelmingly positive, which I have been very grateful for.  However, there was *one* incident where I had the misfortune of coming across a man who was an actual, goddamn, ******* nazi, complaining that D&D was being ruined by the inclusion of Black and gay people in books and the playerbase.  I noped the **** out of that conversation...

Quote from IamSposta >>

Quote from Spideycloned >>

Quote from Gvarayi >>

Quote from Wysperra >>

It isn't mentioned (in publication) not as a means of omission or exclusion but because it is up to the GM how to play out the NPCs. 

Generally speaking though, it doesn't come up very much or at all. For my table it doesn't matter. And I don't mean it doesn't matter as a brush off. If you're a player in my game, I'm happy to have you regardless of your preferences. Just be a decent human being.

 

It seems to me, this generally "well meaning" attitude, is true for all editions of D&D.

At the same time, to assume everyone is straight and to fail to mention the existence of gay or transgender characters is highly problematic.

 

One, people as in you and I don’t go around introducing themselves that way.  When I introduce myself, I say my name is Daniel.  I don’t go my name is Daniel, I’m a cis white male who votes blue, is an atheist and is pro-choice.  Neither do NPCs.  When we encounter an NPC in a general sense, very often it is in an a business setting.  More often than not, its a guard at work, or a merchant, or a monarch, or a quest giver type person.  It’s not failing to mention the existence, it’s just not information that would come up in those conversations.  If my players go around every corner asking people if they are gay/straight/trans, I’m gonna call em out on it.  It’s not appropriate social conduct.  It’s rude.  

Obversely, I think 5th edition is the most D&D friendly LBGTQIA+ version there is, partly because of people like Crawford.  Fantasy, as a setting in the past is very classically inclined with gender roles, because fantasy as a setting historically was NOT friendly to this.  So it stands to reason, sadly, that prior editions didn’t really build on being inclusive and more heavily weighed in on classic themes and tropes.  Damsels in distress, Men are macho warriors, women only get bikini armor, etc.  All of this stuff is terribly sexist but it exists in D&D because of the history of the hobby as it relates to gaming for the past 50 years.  That isn’t to say its GOOD, and 5th is definitely taking steps in the right directions.  Art of women isn’t overtly sexualized, there are queer NPCs in modules who identify openly as queer and there are no gender based restrictions on class(and even the race restrictions around Bladesinger are about to get thrown out the window in 9 days)but just because it’s getting better doesn’t mean it’s where we, as players would like it to be.

Every single game of D&D has some sort of homebrew or table roleplay that the module doesn’t cover.  This is a hardbound fact of our hobby, and as advocates of our hobby its up to us to make sure our tables are inclusive.  The books provide mechanical guidance to us, not social guidance.  Adventures provide a framework of a story, but the DM is there to flesh out details of that story.  Players fill out the social whims and fancies of their characters within the construct of the DMs story, and some tables are going to have far more elements of inclusion than others because each table has players where it matters more to them or not.  Which is fine, because each table dictates how they want to play the game. 

We have to strive to be better, but we can’t also just assume that everything is done with malicious intent, because it’s not.  

 Actually, it is rapidly becoming a fairly common  practice to to introduce oneself by name, haw one identifies, and one’s preferred pronouns. The part about including labels by which one self-identifies is in part important in case one identifies as, say, gender fluid, that way others can be aware that one’s preferred pronouns might change from day to day. I kid you not, I have to specifically teach my students to not only introduce themselves by at least name and preferred pronouns, but to also pointedly request that information from their future patients, as well as their preferred identity to officially put in their file.

Pre COVID, when I would attend certain LGBT+ events, or other nonheteronormative lifestyle events, it was expected of everyone to introduce themself by:

• Name
• By all relevant identity labels (gender identity, sexual preferences, preferred relationships role, dietary preferences such as Vegan, or any number of other things)
• And all preferred pronouns.
• Another thing common at that point would be to ask for consent to shake hands, but not everyone had adopted that custom yet at that time.

Whenever someone chose to not introduce themselves by that convention, perhaps simply introducing themself by name, everybody would just stand there expectantly for a moment in awkward silence waiting for the additional information until they finally realized that the rest was not to be forthcoming. Then everyone just looked at the person with an expression that clearly indicated they did not like the lack of participation with that particular social convention.

It honestly made me uncomfortable. I would make, or see someone else make what I considered a perfectly polite introduction including a smile, first name, and an offered handshake. Then I would see that introduction received by others in much the same way they might receive a fart in a crowded elevator. Simply for not stating all of that additional information as part of every single social introduction they made, people were treated as outsiders.

I wear my hair short, my nails short and unpainted, and a close cropped beard and mustache. Basically if it was good enough for the Roman Army, it’s good enough for me. How on earth anyone could look at me and not realize what my preferred pronouns are was a complete mystery to me. 

Eventually it was explained to me that the reason it was considered so rude, was that by not listening these things it left the other person to guess, and put them in the awkward situation of possibly using the incorrect pronoun or identity label when addressing someone. By not telling people what the safe ways of thinking about you were, it made them feel uncomfortable because they weren’t really sure what to say or do around the person.

Be prepared, as that trend will only continue until it eventually moves into the mainstream. I would not at all be surprised if, in at least some campaigns, every PC and NPC introduce themselves that way already.

Heh, in a face to face introduction, I would be shy about listing that bio-spec casually.

Even so, for an internet forum that would be super useful.

Actually,  on the left side of every post, where it has the name, avatar, and title, it would be great to have a place to put ones preferred pronoun (maybe even require a choice of pronoun), and then add a field to supply the other data optionally.

There have been occasions where forumers on other forums have been unsure about which pronoun to use for me. It is awkward.

I am a "he", by the way.

I can absolutely appreciate that. The word “shy” has never been a word anyone has ever used to describe me. I am a walking, talking antonym for shy. I too was uncomfortable with that convention of disclosure, although for a different reason. For me, it stems mostly from my opinion that those labels often do more to emphasize “otherness” between individuals, and I prefer to focus on the commonalities we all share.

I am actually glad that DDB does not mandate the inclusion of any type of preferred pronouns as part of a users profile. I don’t believe it should be their place or ours to dictate how much (or little) any person should have to disclose in that regard. Forcing the issue would feel a bit like a consent violation to me. I have however seen some users include their preferred pronouns in their siglines, and that seems as good a place as any to me. And whenever unsure, I always just default to “they/them/theirs” as pronouns for everyone. That has only ever offended one individual, so it seems the safest and most courteous and respectful option as a default.

To me, that’s the core point of what this whole topic is about, the basic levels of respect and curtesy we should all express towards one another as the baseline of human interaction. Right?

@ Gvarayi, I will endeavor to remember that your preferred pronouns are “he/him/his,” but I am absolutely rotten with names. If I ever use my default pronouns when interacting with you It will not be out of malice or discourtesy, simply out of habit. Please don’t hold it against me if it happens. 
   My preferred pronouns are also “he/him/his.”

On any website or online game, I refer to people as "they," "them," or their username unless I know their preferred pronoun. For in-person interactions, I usually refer to a person by their name unless I'm at least 60% sure of their preferred pronouns. 

Oh, and my preferred pronouns are "he/him/his" as well.

The DnD community isn't just some huge monolithic group that all share the same ideologies, so there are invariably going to be bigots out there.  Having said that, most players I have encountered are more concerned with having a decent player at the table than how they identify.

Furthermore, I can't imagine why any true roleplayer would ever look down on someone for getting to experience what it is like to be treated by others in the form they feel best fits them.  I mean, we are playing as elves, dwarves, tieflings, and whatever else, so a trans person playing a character that matches the gender they identify as seems mild by comparison.

Quote from RodneyMcNeely >>

Quote from IamSposta >>

For me, it stems mostly from my opinion that those labels often do more to emphasize “otherness” between individuals, and I prefer to focus on the commonalities we all share. 

YES!

I think you and I are almost completely on the same page, and I think this statement is EXACTLY where our perspectives converge.

For me, on a philosophical level, I want to approach you (and have you approach me) as a human first.  Then, once we've connected at that level, we can start filling in the interesting little details about what makes us up.

I DO see what you and others are saying about supplying certain details in online, non-video interactions.  And that makes sense to me.

Anyway, BEAUTFULLY stated!

“Human: The Only Label that Should Matter.” 👍

Thank you.

I agree wholeheartedly. In fact, whenever I fill out a survey or something that requests folks to specify how they identify “check all that apply” I usually just check “other” and write in “human” or “person” and leave the rest blank. I may be a bisexual cisgendered male, but I identify more as a Geek/Nerd or as the son of an immigrant than I do by whether or not I was born with indoor or outdoor plumbing, or which gender(s) of people I may or may not feel inclined towards for sexual interactions, or what color(s) their skin may be for that matter.

I believe that who I might wish to boink with, and which one(s) of us are on which end of said boinking should matter a lot less to someone than the fact that we all have feelings, pasts, bellybuttons, etc. Because, whether other people like it or not, that’s what will matter more to me, and if that’s wrong, I don’t want to be right.

I love the diversity of humanity. I like people being different from each other, in endless ways of being different. I feel the diversity expresses the infinite potential of each human.

One of the highest ethical duties of a human is to be oneself, and stand up for ones own identity. While welcoming the identities of others.

One might think that, who one oneself is, is the first thing that one knows. But often who one is the last thing one knows after exploring other possibilities.

Even after one knows who one is, forming relations with others who are different, keeps us adapting, and moving, and helps us stay infinite.

Sure, but we can celebrate our differences without focusing on them. Heteronormative people and non-heteronormativie people are all still people. As people, we all have to deal with the same issues of love, loss, pain, joy, and everything else that comes with relationships, regardless of who our partners might be. If the bath towels say “his” and “hers,” or “his” and “his,” or even “theirs” and “theirs,” I guarantee that the commonalities of human relations likely influence all three of those partnerships far more than any of the specifics do, even for the folks who need a towel rack big enough for three (or more) towels to accommodate everyone in their partnership. Alll of my past relationships, regardless of who I was with at the time, had mostly all the same stuff going on. People are people after all.

So I say let us celebrate our diversity, but let us not dwell on our differences.

Quote from IamSposta >>

Sure, but we can celebrate our differences without focusing on them. Heteronormative people and non-heteronormativie people are all still people. As people, we all have to deal with the same issues of love, loss, pain, joy, and everything else that comes with relationships, regardless of who our partners might be. If the bath towels say “his” and “hers,” or “his” and “his,” or even “theirs” and “theirs,” I guarantee that the commonalities of human relations likely influence all three of those partnerships far more than any of the specifics do, even for the folks who need a towel rack big enough for three (or more) towels to accommodate everyone in their partnership. Alll of my past relationships, regardless of who I was with at the time, had mostly all the same stuff going on. People are people after all.

So I say let us celebrate our diversity, but let us not dwell on our differences.

 I feel, if one can maintain ones own identity while simultaneously truly embracing someone elses identity, it is a transcendent moment. A holy moment.