4d6 drop the whatever is not the problem, standard array is not the problem. People telling others their method of stat generation is wrong and they are playin D&D wrong IS the problem. But you hate power gamers to much you'll never see the issue with anything you believe in. You always see yourself as this righteous being who needs to talk down to those who do not play your way. Frankly this entire threads GOAL is to get people upset and banned. But I know you'll be fine, it's Yurei and I who call you out that will face punishment.
We are currently playing in a game where a guy got worse rolls than the OP. The 4 went into Wisdom. He is a Warlock. There has been so much hilarity because of his disparity in characteristics and the player is doing an AWESOME job. That's the interesting part of doing Roleplay.
This works great if the players' goal is RP.
If their goal is to "beat the dungeon" then it's going to be a major issue for those players.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
WOTC lies. We know that WOTC lies. WOTC knows that we know that WOTC lies. We know that WOTC knows that we know that WOTC lies. And still they lie.
Because of the above (a paraphrase from Orwell) I no longer post to the forums -- PM me if you need help or anything.
4d6 drop the whatever is not the problem, standard array is not the problem. People telling others their method of stat generation is wrong and they are playin D&D wrong IS the problem. But you hate power gamers to much you'll never see the issue with anything you believe in. You always see yourself as this righteous being who needs to talk down to those who do not play your way. Frankly this entire threads GOAL is to get people upset and banned. But I know you'll be fine, it's Yurei and I who call you out that will face punishment.
I swear the scores people are expecting on to be 'viable' as a character have been creeping up over time. I don't understand the expectation to be starting with amazing scores. Part of what I love about DnD is the character getting gradually stronger over time, going from zero to hero. Feels a bit pointless when you're practically demigods at level 1.
If that's the case, then I think the problem stems from the fact that you have to choose between interesting feats or increasing ability scores. If you didn't have to choose between these things then it would be ok. I for one loathe taking ability score increases as it is extremely boring and does nothing to expand the feel or scope of my character.
Nothing stops you from taking a Feat with every ASI. The issue is you want both high scores AND then all the buffs from Feats, which usually are taken to enhance primary abilities. You are the perfect example of what Lyxen just described.
Honestly, I don't necessarily want high scores. I want my character to develop his style, scope and feel. I will 100% at the same time try to make him as effective as possible in combat because that's who I am as a gamer. I'm also a roleplayer though and will spin it all together in a narrative, leave room for the other people at the table and play to my weaknesses as well such that we run into more problems than fortune. I'm partially a power gamer and I enjoy playing that way. I don't want stuff handed to me though. I want to excel at the role I've chosen.
4d6 drop the whatever is not the problem, standard array is not the problem. People telling others their method of stat generation is wrong and they are playin D&D wrong IS the problem. But you hate power gamers to much you'll never see the issue with anything you believe in. You always see yourself as this righteous being who needs to talk down to those who do not play your way. Frankly this entire threads GOAL is to get people upset and banned. But I know you'll be fine, it's Yurei and I who call you out that will face punishment.
Hey man, you two got my support lol.
Don’t say that too loud. People might here you.
You know, you're right. We're not allowed to say everything on these forums (neither should we be allowed to). [REDACTED] So I think I'll stick with "I heavily disagree with the original poster" [REDACTED]
I swear the scores people are expecting on to be 'viable' as a character have been creeping up over time. I don't understand the expectation to be starting with amazing scores. Part of what I love about DnD is the character getting gradually stronger over time, going from zero to hero. Feels a bit pointless when you're practically demigods at level 1.
If that's the case, then I think the problem stems from the fact that you have to choose between interesting feats or increasing ability scores. If you didn't have to choose between these things then it would be ok. I for one loathe taking ability score increases as it is extremely boring and does nothing to expand the feel or scope of my character.
Nothing stops you from taking a Feat with every ASI. The issue is you want both high scores AND then all the buffs from Feats, which usually are taken to enhance primary abilities. You are the perfect example of what Lyxen just described.
Yes there is something stopping you from taking a Feat at every ASI.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
"Sooner or later, your Players are going to smash your railroad into a sandbox."
-Vedexent
"real life is a super high CR."
-OboeLauren
"............anybody got any potatoes? We could drop a potato in each hole an' see which ones get viciously mauled by horrible monsters?"
I swear the scores people are expecting on to be 'viable' as a character have been creeping up over time. I don't understand the expectation to be starting with amazing scores. Part of what I love about DnD is the character getting gradually stronger over time, going from zero to hero. Feels a bit pointless when you're practically demigods at level 1.
If that's the case, then I think the problem stems from the fact that you have to choose between interesting feats or increasing ability scores. If you didn't have to choose between these things then it would be ok. I for one loathe taking ability score increases as it is extremely boring and does nothing to expand the feel or scope of my character.
Nothing stops you from taking a Feat with every ASI. The issue is you want both high scores AND then all the buffs from Feats, which usually are taken to enhance primary abilities. You are the perfect example of what Lyxen just described.
Yes there is something stopping you from taking a Feat at every ASI.
Would that be the fact that it is an or? like you get a feat OR an ASI. lol
I swear the scores people are expecting on to be 'viable' as a character have been creeping up over time. I don't understand the expectation to be starting with amazing scores. Part of what I love about DnD is the character getting gradually stronger over time, going from zero to hero. Feels a bit pointless when you're practically demigods at level 1.
If that's the case, then I think the problem stems from the fact that you have to choose between interesting feats or increasing ability scores. If you didn't have to choose between these things then it would be ok. I for one loathe taking ability score increases as it is extremely boring and does nothing to expand the feel or scope of my character.
Nothing stops you from taking a Feat with every ASI. The issue is you want both high scores AND then all the buffs from Feats, which usually are taken to enhance primary abilities. You are the perfect example of what Lyxen just described.
Yes there is something stopping you from taking a Feat at every ASI.
Huh? What game mechanic stops a player from taking a Feat every time an ASI level is achieved?
Most of my players that are on the younger spectrum enjoy rolling for stats for the sheer joy of rolling dice. They don't want to play "add-them-up" or "everybody has the same thing". Yes, they are happy with high stats and not thrilled with low stats. However, they embrace the low stats and really role with it. As a group they tease and make fun of each other but they love it.
I also have groups with Standard Array. These groups are people that want everything to be fair.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
"Sooner or later, your Players are going to smash your railroad into a sandbox."
-Vedexent
"real life is a super high CR."
-OboeLauren
"............anybody got any potatoes? We could drop a potato in each hole an' see which ones get viciously mauled by horrible monsters?"
Let's please keep things on the discussion topic of the merits and demerits of rolled ability scores, rather than venturing into the realm of meta-discussion regarding forum conduct.
Anyone unsure as to the site rules, you can refresh yourself here
Most of my players that are on the younger spectrum enjoy rolling for stats for the sheer joy of rolling dice. They don't want to play "add-them-up" or "everybody has the same thing". Yes, they are happy with high stats and not thrilled with low stats. However, they embrace the low stats and really role with it. As a group they tease and make fun of each other but they love it.
I also have groups with Standard Array. These groups are people that want everything to be fair.
I would say that the sheer thrill of the initial gamble (that is what rolling the dice is) when creating a char is fleeting, especially when compared to the length of an actual campaign. And yes, I agree completely with your comment about Standard Array. "Fair". It is an important word. Fair for the other players, and fair for the DM, whose job becomes more difficult if there are widely variable initial stat blocks among a group.
I am inferring that you are saying that this is also based somewhat on the maturity of the players at the table, based on your reference to age. Yeah, I have been PM'ing with someone on this website about something along those lines.
All three groups I am in still roll stats. We do it because that is what we have been doing for decades, because it allows us to play odd ball characters more frequently without spending every ASI on stats and (most importantly) because we really enjoy it. We get together and cheer for each other when the dice roll well and console one another when they don't. We don't whine about poor stats or that someone else's stats are better. That is our fun. If you have fun doing it another way, then go for it, but realize that your opinions are just opinions and not facts.
Most of my players that are on the younger spectrum enjoy rolling for stats for the sheer joy of rolling dice. They don't want to play "add-them-up" or "everybody has the same thing". Yes, they are happy with high stats and not thrilled with low stats. However, they embrace the low stats and really role with it. As a group they tease and make fun of each other but they love it.
I also have groups with Standard Array. These groups are people that want everything to be fair.
I give my players the choice, but they usually want 4d6 drop lowest. I personally prefer the standard array, since it puts more emphasis on in-game luck and strategy than on whether you have a +5 or a +3 to a skill you're proficient in.
I swear the scores people are expecting on to be 'viable' as a character have been creeping up over time. I don't understand the expectation to be starting with amazing scores. Part of what I love about DnD is the character getting gradually stronger over time, going from zero to hero. Feels a bit pointless when you're practically demigods at level 1.
If that's the case, then I think the problem stems from the fact that you have to choose between interesting feats or increasing ability scores. If you didn't have to choose between these things then it would be ok. I for one loathe taking ability score increases as it is extremely boring and does nothing to expand the feel or scope of my character.
Nothing stops you from taking a Feat with every ASI. The issue is you want both high scores AND then all the buffs from Feats, which usually are taken to enhance primary abilities. You are the perfect example of what Lyxen just described.
Yes there is something stopping you from taking a Feat at every ASI.
Huh? What game mechanic stops a player from taking a Feat every time an ASI level is achieved?
Our current DM says it is an Optional Rule (which is true), so our first ASI has to be a stat increase, then we can choose either or... when I am running, take your pick, I don't care. I'm a fan of using feats and making them meaningful, so I'll start finding out what players are interested in training for and periodically I'll give a free feat if they are pursuing it in their roleplay.
As for rolling. We generally just do 4d6 Drop the Lowest and if you have a bad score you can roll 3d6 and take whatever the result is. That's how the 4 Wisdom came about in our campaign. If you take the chance, you risk it. It is what it is. We're not going for PowerGaming out the gate. Well... let me take that back... that one DM in our rotation is not for PowerGaming out the gate... he wants to see dice rolls and you live by dice rolls on every single aspect of the game. Dice rolls are his favorite thing. We're all on the same ground, so... it's fine.
As for the Matt Colville method... I didn't list the requirement of at least two scores 15 or better for heroic feeling, but that is part of his system. And actually, it is a great way to get new players to try something. For long campaigns? Eh... it can be good it can be bad. I like the challenge of coming up with something that works with whatever and over the last 40 years, I've played every single class, so it is a good way of challenging my brain and then working it out from there. It also helps to walk new players through how to take stats and build a character from that. You really get to pinpoint some things that are easy to do as a new player and not really know why you do it. And then after a one-shot or short campaign then go back to normal methods. But to each table their own. I'm perfectly fine with point buy and if I have to we can all use the array. I guess I too like to roll and then build on things that I am given, both good and bad.
Once upon a time we rolled 3d6 strictly and played characters from that. At that time we all had the same standards so we went with it. Over time, things evolved and changed and we adapted. I'm never going to say a single way is the best way to generate a character... but when presented a framework, I'm still going to do my best to create a CHARACTER from those dice, and not just a series of numbers for combat only avatars.
In my experience, everyone loves rolling for stats, right up to the point they get bad rolls.
Then it is, "Oh, that character died in training. Roll again."
I have one player who has chronically awful luck with character stats, and he still loves it! Great players like that, though, are few and far between.
Most of my players that are on the younger spectrum enjoy rolling for stats for the sheer joy of rolling dice. They don't want to play "add-them-up" or "everybody has the same thing". Yes, they are happy with high stats and not thrilled with low stats. However, they embrace the low stats and really role with it. As a group they tease and make fun of each other but they love it.
I also have groups with Standard Array. These groups are people that want everything to be fair.
I am inferring that you are saying that this is also based somewhat on the maturity of the players at the table, based on your reference to age. Yeah, I have been PM'ing with someone on this website about something along those lines.
All of my younger (by age 8-19) players love the rolling. They just love rolling dice.
My older (25-50) players don't really care as long as everybody uses the same system.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
"Sooner or later, your Players are going to smash your railroad into a sandbox."
-Vedexent
"real life is a super high CR."
-OboeLauren
"............anybody got any potatoes? We could drop a potato in each hole an' see which ones get viciously mauled by horrible monsters?"
Nothing stops you from taking a Feat with every ASI. The issue is you want both high scores AND then all the buffs from Feats, which usually are taken to enhance primary abilities. You are the perfect example of what Lyxen just described.
Yes there is something stopping you from taking a Feat at every ASI.
Huh? What game mechanic stops a player from taking a Feat every time an ASI level is achieved?
The part where it is an optional rule and GMs don't have to include them in their campaigns.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
"Sooner or later, your Players are going to smash your railroad into a sandbox."
-Vedexent
"real life is a super high CR."
-OboeLauren
"............anybody got any potatoes? We could drop a potato in each hole an' see which ones get viciously mauled by horrible monsters?"
Granklag was left deathly-frail after a wasting disease. Left for dead when he was very young to ensure the survival of the tribe, he was later a adopted by the Wizard Mogalo.
Granklag proved to be an apt house-keeper, for a deathly frail Bugbear is a nearly average human. The time came when Mogalo's friends challenged him to teach the poor wretch magic. Mogalo wasn't a good man, (as evidenced by his rescue of Granklag only immediately press him into service), but he was always up for a laugh.
As might be expected, Granklag never excelled at magic. It wasn't in his nature. But Mogalo was a good teacher, so although a simple cantrip took Granklag as much effort and concentration as a master mage would expend casting a level 9 enchantment, Granklag performed what was technically magic. It's a sad irony that Granlag's victory, was Mogalo's end, for the first time Granklag cast a 1st level spell was the final day of Mogalo's life (the sad side-effect of burning hands).
And so Granklag wanders the land, but his mediocre magic is savings for you and your party! Hire him on today and you won't regret it... just make sure to stand behind him and mind the burning hands....
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
I Cancelled my Master Tier Subscription January 12th 2023 because of "OGL" 1.1 - Resubscribed 28th of Jan, now the SRD is in CC-BY-4.0
Granklag was left deathly-frail after a wasting disease. Left for dead when he was very young to ensure the survival of the tribe, he was later a adopted by the Wizard Mogalo.
Granklag proved to be an apt house-keeper, for a deathly frail Bugbear is a nearly average human. The time came when Mogalo's friends challenged him to teach the poor wretch magic. Mogalo wasn't a good man, (as evidenced by his rescue of Granklag only immediately press him into service), but he was always up for a laugh.
As might be expected, Granklag never excelled at magic. It wasn't in his nature. But Mogalo was a good teacher, so although a simple cantrip took Granklag as much effort and concentration as a master mage would expend casting a level 9 enchantment, Granklag performed what was technically magic. It's a sad irony that Granlag's victory, was Mogalo's end, for the first time Granklag cast a 1st level spell was the final day of Mogalo's life (the sad side-effect of burning hands).
And so Granklag wanders the land, but his mediocre magic is savings for you and your party! Hire him on today and you won't regret it... just make sure to stand behind him and mind the burning hands....
With an INT of 11 I think I'm pretty safe in front of him with burning hands.
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Hey man, you two got my support lol.
Altrazin Aghanes - Wizard/Fighter
Varpulis Windhowl - Fighter
Skolson Demjon - Cleric/Fighter
This works great if the players' goal is RP.
If their goal is to "beat the dungeon" then it's going to be a major issue for those players.
WOTC lies. We know that WOTC lies. WOTC knows that we know that WOTC lies. We know that WOTC knows that we know that WOTC lies. And still they lie.
Because of the above (a paraphrase from Orwell) I no longer post to the forums -- PM me if you need help or anything.
Don’t say that too loud. People might here you.
Creating Epic Boons on DDB
DDB Buyers' Guide
Hardcovers, DDB & You
Content Troubleshooting
Honestly, I don't necessarily want high scores. I want my character to develop his style, scope and feel. I will 100% at the same time try to make him as effective as possible in combat because that's who I am as a gamer. I'm also a roleplayer though and will spin it all together in a narrative, leave room for the other people at the table and play to my weaknesses as well such that we run into more problems than fortune.
I'm partially a power gamer and I enjoy playing that way. I don't want stuff handed to me though. I want to excel at the role I've chosen.
Altrazin Aghanes - Wizard/Fighter
Varpulis Windhowl - Fighter
Skolson Demjon - Cleric/Fighter
You know, you're right. We're not allowed to say everything on these forums (neither should we be allowed to). [REDACTED] So I think I'll stick with "I heavily disagree with the original poster" [REDACTED]
Altrazin Aghanes - Wizard/Fighter
Varpulis Windhowl - Fighter
Skolson Demjon - Cleric/Fighter
Yes there is something stopping you from taking a Feat at every ASI.
"Sooner or later, your Players are going to smash your railroad into a sandbox."
-Vedexent
"real life is a super high CR."
-OboeLauren
"............anybody got any potatoes? We could drop a potato in each hole an' see which ones get viciously mauled by horrible monsters?"
-Ilyara Thundertale
Would that be the fact that it is an or? like you get a feat OR an ASI. lol
Huh? What game mechanic stops a player from taking a Feat every time an ASI level is achieved?
Most of my players that are on the younger spectrum enjoy rolling for stats for the sheer joy of rolling dice. They don't want to play "add-them-up" or "everybody has the same thing". Yes, they are happy with high stats and not thrilled with low stats. However, they embrace the low stats and really role with it. As a group they tease and make fun of each other but they love it.
I also have groups with Standard Array. These groups are people that want everything to be fair.
"Sooner or later, your Players are going to smash your railroad into a sandbox."
-Vedexent
"real life is a super high CR."
-OboeLauren
"............anybody got any potatoes? We could drop a potato in each hole an' see which ones get viciously mauled by horrible monsters?"
-Ilyara Thundertale
Let's please keep things on the discussion topic of the merits and demerits of rolled ability scores, rather than venturing into the realm of meta-discussion regarding forum conduct.
Anyone unsure as to the site rules, you can refresh yourself here
Otherwise, be excellent to each other
Find my D&D Beyond articles here
I would say that the sheer thrill of the initial gamble (that is what rolling the dice is) when creating a char is fleeting, especially when compared to the length of an actual campaign. And yes, I agree completely with your comment about Standard Array. "Fair". It is an important word. Fair for the other players, and fair for the DM, whose job becomes more difficult if there are widely variable initial stat blocks among a group.
I am inferring that you are saying that this is also based somewhat on the maturity of the players at the table, based on your reference to age. Yeah, I have been PM'ing with someone on this website about something along those lines.
All three groups I am in still roll stats. We do it because that is what we have been doing for decades, because it allows us to play odd ball characters more frequently without spending every ASI on stats and (most importantly) because we really enjoy it. We get together and cheer for each other when the dice roll well and console one another when they don't. We don't whine about poor stats or that someone else's stats are better. That is our fun. If you have fun doing it another way, then go for it, but realize that your opinions are just opinions and not facts.
She/Her Player and Dungeon Master
I give my players the choice, but they usually want 4d6 drop lowest. I personally prefer the standard array, since it puts more emphasis on in-game luck and strategy than on whether you have a +5 or a +3 to a skill you're proficient in.
Our current DM says it is an Optional Rule (which is true), so our first ASI has to be a stat increase, then we can choose either or... when I am running, take your pick, I don't care. I'm a fan of using feats and making them meaningful, so I'll start finding out what players are interested in training for and periodically I'll give a free feat if they are pursuing it in their roleplay.
As for rolling. We generally just do 4d6 Drop the Lowest and if you have a bad score you can roll 3d6 and take whatever the result is. That's how the 4 Wisdom came about in our campaign. If you take the chance, you risk it. It is what it is. We're not going for PowerGaming out the gate. Well... let me take that back... that one DM in our rotation is not for PowerGaming out the gate... he wants to see dice rolls and you live by dice rolls on every single aspect of the game. Dice rolls are his favorite thing. We're all on the same ground, so... it's fine.
As for the Matt Colville method... I didn't list the requirement of at least two scores 15 or better for heroic feeling, but that is part of his system. And actually, it is a great way to get new players to try something. For long campaigns? Eh... it can be good it can be bad. I like the challenge of coming up with something that works with whatever and over the last 40 years, I've played every single class, so it is a good way of challenging my brain and then working it out from there. It also helps to walk new players through how to take stats and build a character from that. You really get to pinpoint some things that are easy to do as a new player and not really know why you do it. And then after a one-shot or short campaign then go back to normal methods. But to each table their own. I'm perfectly fine with point buy and if I have to we can all use the array. I guess I too like to roll and then build on things that I am given, both good and bad.
Once upon a time we rolled 3d6 strictly and played characters from that. At that time we all had the same standards so we went with it. Over time, things evolved and changed and we adapted. I'm never going to say a single way is the best way to generate a character... but when presented a framework, I'm still going to do my best to create a CHARACTER from those dice, and not just a series of numbers for combat only avatars.
In my experience, everyone loves rolling for stats, right up to the point they get bad rolls.
Then it is, "Oh, that character died in training. Roll again."
I have one player who has chronically awful luck with character stats, and he still loves it! Great players like that, though, are few and far between.
Wizard (Gandalf) of the Tolkien Club
All of my younger (by age 8-19) players love the rolling. They just love rolling dice.
My older (25-50) players don't really care as long as everybody uses the same system.
"Sooner or later, your Players are going to smash your railroad into a sandbox."
-Vedexent
"real life is a super high CR."
-OboeLauren
"............anybody got any potatoes? We could drop a potato in each hole an' see which ones get viciously mauled by horrible monsters?"
-Ilyara Thundertale
The part where it is an optional rule and GMs don't have to include them in their campaigns.
"Sooner or later, your Players are going to smash your railroad into a sandbox."
-Vedexent
"real life is a super high CR."
-OboeLauren
"............anybody got any potatoes? We could drop a potato in each hole an' see which ones get viciously mauled by horrible monsters?"
-Ilyara Thundertale
Easy: Bugbear Wizard, a failed Wizard's apprentice.
Str: 9, Dex: 13, Con: 9, Int: 11, Wis: 4, Cha: 14
Granklag was left deathly-frail after a wasting disease. Left for dead when he was very young to ensure the survival of the tribe, he was later a adopted by the Wizard Mogalo.
Granklag proved to be an apt house-keeper, for a deathly frail Bugbear is a nearly average human. The time came when Mogalo's friends challenged him to teach the poor wretch magic. Mogalo wasn't a good man, (as evidenced by his rescue of Granklag only immediately press him into service), but he was always up for a laugh.
As might be expected, Granklag never excelled at magic. It wasn't in his nature. But Mogalo was a good teacher, so although a simple cantrip took Granklag as much effort and concentration as a master mage would expend casting a level 9 enchantment, Granklag performed what was technically magic. It's a sad irony that Granlag's victory, was Mogalo's end, for the first time Granklag cast a 1st level spell was the final day of Mogalo's life (the sad side-effect of burning hands).
And so Granklag wanders the land, but his mediocre magic is savings for you and your party! Hire him on today and you won't regret it... just make sure to stand behind him and mind the burning hands....
I Cancelled my Master Tier Subscription January 12th 2023 because of "OGL" 1.1 - Resubscribed 28th of Jan, now the SRD is in CC-BY-4.0
With an INT of 11 I think I'm pretty safe in front of him with burning hands.